Brian Boru St. - accident black spot

who_me

There was yet another accident at this junction over the weekend. This is where Penrose Wharf intersects traffic coming down by the Leisureplex. I live just by this junction, and have seen 6 accidents here just this year - and most of them have been high-speed accidents. II wouldn't be around during work hours, so who knows how many there have been in total.

I don't know what caused this weekend's collision, but it seems to me most were caused by cars running the lights as they turn red. You have two multi-lane one-way streets (i.e. people will tend to drive faster) intersecting at a corner with very little visibility between them due to the fencing & building on the inside of the corner. If you run the lights as they turn red and someone reaches the lights as they turn green, you won't have time to see and avoid each other.

DO NOT run the lights at this junction. I've seen two cars spun around 180 degrees, and two other incidents left motorcyclists screaming in pain (including this weekend's crash).

Please be careful out there.

cantdecide

That's weird for sure. I used to live nearby and never knew it was a problem area. Important to know especially as I'm a motorcyclist and travel through there all the time.

Any idea as to why this is such a black spot? I don't think similar junctions will have the same apparent accident rate...

evilivor

cantdecide wrote: »

Any idea as to why this is such a black spot? I don't think similar junctions will have the same apparent accident rate...

"most of them have been high-speed accidents"I

They need to extend the 30kmh limit to the whole city centre.

Pitcairn

They are changing Brian Boru Street shortly.
The bridge and the street up to the Coliseum will be two-way along with MacCurtain Street.
That might sort out the accidents.

cantdecide

evilivor wrote: »

"most of them have been high-speed accidents"I

They need to extend the 30kmh limit to the whole city centre.

I'm not doubting the OP in any way I just find it hard to visualise regular high speed accidents at full pelt where there are traffic lights in operation. I just would have thought there would have be some other flaw in the layout.

cantdecide

Pitcairn wrote: »

They are changing Brian Boru Street shortly

Do you have a link?

Pitcairn

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/01/16/city-to-get-traffic-overhaul/

and

http://www.corkcity.ie/news/mainbody,59673,en.html

mordeith

cantdecide wrote: »

I'm not doubting the OP in any way I just find it hard to visualise regular high speed accidents at full pelt where there are traffic lights in operation. I just would have thought there would have be some other flaw in the layout.

I pass that juntion every day going to work. The amount of drivers that break the red lights coming either down the hill to cross the bridge or straight on along the quays is unreal. And they're not creeping across the juntions either. Breaking red lights is a serious issue from what I observe on a daily basis. The lights on Washington street for cars coming on Grand Parade are constantly broken when red and pedestrians are crossing. Also the pedestrian crossing on Grand Parade at the top of Oliver Plunkett street is regularly broken by cars going through red lights.

evilivor

mordeith wrote: »

I pass that juntion every day going to work. The amount of drivers that break the red lights coming either down the hill to cross the bridge or straight on along the quays is unreal. And they're not creeping across the juntions either. Breaking red lights is a serious issue from what I observe on a daily basis. The lights on Washington street for cars coming on Grand Parade are constantly broken when red and pedestrians are crossing. Also the pedestrian crossing on Grand Parade at the top of Oliver Plunkett street is regularly broken by cars going through red lights.

That's because people know they will get away with it - there are no sanctions for it - Gardai don't police it so why bother observing it.

Most people things Amber light means "Floor it" and a Red light is only a suggestion if they tailgait the others - and then probably block up the junction.

I saw a woman recently fly through the red lights, long after they had changed, in the junction outside the Opera House - three kids in the back of the people carrier and a "Drive Safely - Baby on Board" sticker on the window.

Watching that terrific series on London's transport system on BBC a few weeks ago - CCTV monitoring junctions and a driver blocking a junction for more than 5 seconds gets a fine of £130. Proper monitoring and proper policing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy5xx-uK3h4

the beer revolu

I agree with people above - the problem isn't the junction, the problem is people breaking the lights.
Drives me effing mad as both a pedestrian and a motorist.:mad::mad:

who_me

cantdecide wrote: »

I'm not doubting the OP in any way I just find it hard to visualise regular high speed accidents at full pelt where there are traffic lights in operation. I just would have thought there would have be some other flaw in the layout.

Twice I've seen cars spun 180 degrees at this junction (both in the last year).

Cars drive pretty fast along the quays (wide, multi-lane, one-way street) and likewise cars go pretty fast down Brian Boru St towards the bridge. The one problem with the layout is the relative lack of visibility on the inside of the corner, it doesn't give you much time to react.

So it's not just the speed they're going at (and to be fair, there is a LOT of speeding along the quays), but the fact they don't see the car until the last second so there's little or no braking. Even a 50kph side-on impact is nasty enough, particularly for bikers.

who_me

Pitcairn wrote: »

They are changing Brian Boru Street shortly.
The bridge and the street up to the Coliseum will be two-way along with MacCurtain Street.
That might sort out the accidents.

I knew they were changing McCurtain St., but didn't realise Brian Boru St. as well. Interesting, thanks.

who_me

evilivor wrote: »

Most people things Amber light means "Floor it" and a Red light is only a suggestion if they tailgait the others - and then probably block up the junction.

I saw a woman recently fly through the red lights, long after they had changed, in the junction outside the Opera House - three kids in the back of the people carrier and a "Drive Safely - Baby on Board" sticker on the window.

I used to live by the South Gate bridge, and tailgating was a big problem there. I think with busy, slow junctions like that, people just focus on the car in front and don't even look at the lights. If that moves, they go with it regardless of the lights.

Another problem area for red-light running is actually the other end of Brian Boru bridge by the bus station. If it's a green light to go straight on but red to turn right along the quay, cars will just see the green light and turn right driving straight through a pedestrian crossing. I'm surprised I've never seen an accident there.

On the 'amber' lights, I'm reminding of that old joke about someone getting into a taxi. As they approach the first traffic lights they turn amber, and the driver puts the foot down and gets though. At the next lights they go red, so the driver floors it and races through. At the next lights they go green, so he slams on the brakes. "I was afraid I'd meet my brother going the other way".

the beer revolu

who_me wrote: »

Twice I've seen cars spun 180 degrees at this junction (both in the last year).

Cars drive pretty fast along the quays (wide, multi-lane, one-way street) and likewise cars go pretty fast down Brian Boru St towards the bridge. The one problem with the layout is the relative lack of visibility on the inside of the corner, it doesn't give you much time to react.

So it's not just the speed they're going at (and to be fair, there is a LOT of speeding along the quays), but the fact they don't see the car until the last second so there's little or no braking. Even a 50kph side-on impact is nasty enough, particularly for bikers.

why blame the junction when it's drivers breaking the lights that are the problem?

who_me

the beer revolu wrote: »

why blame the junction when it's drivers breaking the lights that are the problem?

I'm not blaming the junction - if that implies absolving drivers running a red light.

I'm saying because of the relatively high speeds at the junction and the lack of visibility, it's unforgiving. At other junctions you're more likely to see someone coming and brake in time, at this junction you won't.

SpaceTime

They also need to start putting cameras on / putting an occasional garda on duty at some of the junctions where people assume a red light and a straight-ahead green arrow means you can turn right across a pedestrian crossing that's green.

I was nearly mowed down on several occasions trying to cross from Brian Boru Bridge to the Bus Station while crossing on a green light!

I think red fly lights are a more logical solution, and they're only starting to appear in Ireland. First one I've ever seen is over at that new junction in Mahon/Blackrock/Well road area.

...

Cork's also full of junctions where the traffic lights behave as if there's a fly light, but there isn't one.

So, the on coming traffic's held back by a red light, while there's a full green (with no fly light). People turn right.

However, then they encounter one that's set up properly and turn right across flowing traffic and wonder what happened! It's a pretty stupid arrangement that's giving people bad habits and frustrating visitors who sit waiting wondering why the on-coming traffic is stopped.

mordeith

who_me wrote: »

I'm not blaming the junction - if that implies absolving drivers running a red light.

I'm saying because of the relatively high speeds at the junction and the lack of visibility, it's unforgiving. At other junctions you're more likely to see someone coming and brake in time, at this junction you won't.

Yeah but surely that's what traffic lights are for, cos you can't see around the bend.
'It's an orange light. I'd better start braking.' Fairly simple process if drivers adhered to it

who_me

SpaceTime wrote: »

I was nearly mowed down on several occasions trying to cross from Brian Boru Bridge to the Bus Station while crossing on a green light!

Hah, I mentioned the same junction above for the same reason. I don't know why, but that junction seems to be particularly bad for this issue. Between cars turning through the pedestrian crossing when only the straight-on light is green, and buses coming around the station corner and driving through the pedestrian crossing, it's a dangerous place to cross!

who_me

mordeith wrote: »

Yeah but surely that's what traffic lights are for, cos you can't see around the bend.
'It's an orange light. I'd better start braking.' Fairly simple process if drivers adhered to it

Absolutely! Accelerating on amber is bad enough, the 'go on I'll make it' as it turns red mentality is worse. And then you have people complaining if the driver in front doesn't floor it the instant the lights turn green - it's a recipe for disaster. And sadly the proof is there..

evilivor

who_me wrote: »

Absolutely! Accelerating on amber is bad enough, the 'go on I'll make it' as it turns red mentality is worse. And then you have people complaining if the driver in front doesn't floor it the instant the lights turn green - it's a recipe for disaster. And sadly the proof is there..

This morning at Christy Ring bridge - cars sailing through on Red light - the fourth one, bloke in a white Golf - then gets stuck in the box junction - blocking the entire lane of traffic coming from Lavitts' Quay so they get no go at the lights at all. Then he drives on through the pedestrians crossing on the green man. Not a bother to him - no sanctions, no worries.

cantdecide

evilivor wrote: »

This morning at Christy Ring bridge - cars sailing through on Red light - the fourth one, bloke in a white Golf - then gets stuck in the box junction - blocking the entire lane of traffic coming from Lavitts' Quay so they get no go at the lights at all. Then he drives on through the pedestrians crossing on the green man. Not a bother to him - no sanctions, no worries.

One of my guilty pleasures are the traffic cop type shows and I was surprised to see in the UK that sometimes these boxes are supervised and anyone that lingers in them are issued pretty stiff fines.

evilivor

cantdecide wrote: »

One of my guilty pleasures are the traffic cop type shows and I was surprised to see in the UK that sometimes these boxes are supervised and anyone that lingers in them are issued pretty stiff fines.

As I posted earlier -£130 fine for blocking a junction for more than five seconds.

bladebrew

Running red lights has become as normal as anything in cork, It really pisses me off, i have had several near misses caused by this at nearly every light in cork by now, no enforcement whatsoever dosent help though!
All we need is red light cameras that automatically fine people when they run the lights, i read on the australia forum someone was fined $300 for it, brilliant idea!

SpaceTime

I'd be all for introducing those cameras in Cork.

The city needs more revenue and the red lights need to be observed properly.


...

The other one was the pedestrian crossing at the Metropole Hotel in MacCurtain Street was broken and the lights were on flashing orange and the traffic (including several city busses) just ploughed on through as if they weren't there. I was nearly run over trying to cross as were several tourists.

One guy even started blasting the horn at an old lady trying to cross!!!

I don't know what's with all this aggressive driving. It wasn't even at rush hour.

....

I also saw a very near miss on the South Link where someone obviously broke the lights coming from the Park and Ride and a car took off quite rapidly at the change to green and the guy drove right across the front of him resulting in the car having to slam on and several cars nearly going into the back of him!

There needs to be a pretty major crack down.

leahyl

Totally agree with everyone regarding people running red lights - it's an epidemic lately!

Xantia

The timing of most lights is incorrect.
The orange should be longer.
This is evident at the junction near the Sextant pub.
If you go across during an orange you barely get to the other side by the time it goes red and then the Green has already lit up for the other side.

One of the main problems at Brian Boru street and others is the lack of road paint and when it fades the junctions become ambiguous as to who can go where. If you turn right from McCurtain street to Brian Boru street it is not clear that if you are in the Right hand lane that you can only go right, furthermore which lane you can go into then on Brian Boru street is not clear.

I can remember when McCurtain street was a two way street, it did not fix any problems then and probably will not fix any now, it might however slow down the traffic.

The largest cameras are focused on that street, placed on the old bank at Coburg street

Furthermore technically McCurtain street is in a 'safety' camera zone.

daveyjoe

Xantia wrote: »

The timing of most lights is incorrect.
The orange should be longer.
This is evident at the junction near the Sextant pub.
If you go across during an orange you barely get to the other side by the time it goes red and then the Green has already lit up for the other side.

The problem is not that the light should be orange for longer. The problem is that there should be a longer pause between one set of lights turning red and the intersecting lights turning green. Most lights have a pause for a second or two when all lights are red, this is to compensate for the fact that some people will inevitably chance it if a light has just changed to red as they pass through.

A longer orange would just mean more people chancing it because a lot of people have the 'accelerate on amber' mentality.