Trapped in One Bedroom House

Sugarcake

LINE45 wrote: »

I do think you should talk to them, as you are nearly there with only a balance of 1500 left, they are very understanding. In relation to the mortgage you seem to have done all you can do. It is a very tough situation to be in, but keep the spirits up.

Thanks for the encouragement and Advice, so many people have helped clear my head on this. I will talk to them, as I said I don't have anything to lose at this stage. Thanks again

Tim Robbins

Sugarcake wrote: »

Wow Tim that is a pretty amazing story, delighted to hear you have come out the other side, well done to you both! Do you mind me asking what Bank you were with and did you go to a different Bank or the same for the second mortgage?

Yeah we fought back. But it was very stressful. I think I understand how isolated you feel. Because when we were down no-one gave a cr*p. Family say silly things like "ah sure the price will come back up" but you want your child to have a bit a space now not when they have emigrated to Oz.

You also get the "ah sure rent and rent". This can work in some cases. For us it wouldn't have worked. It would have meant we had to flesh out 400 euro extra or so a month. So that wasn't a long term a good idea. But it works for others. Also, not meaning to sound sinister but some people know they will get an inheritance some day - a big one. So they don't care if they spend 10 years wasting money on rent. We're not in that boat. The other head recking people are the ones who didn't buy in 2004 - 2008 and just say things like "I knew it was all a bubble". Ok, well f off then. Congrats on being a suppressed economist. Basically every Irish person has been shafted on their mortgage since 1999. Even now, if you pay 250K for your 3 bed semi you are still being ripped off paying the banks 15K a year on interest and paying the land owner about 150K for doing nothing. The lad who put the bricks down was probably on a crapy daily rate. The property thing is still a rip off. And always will be.

In our case, the escape all started with trying to earn as much as you can. That can mean upskiling or doing something you don't want to do to get more money.

One other option is to emigrate. But whatever you do don't listen to the people with rich parents, or the suppressed economists. They are the me feiners who will never help you or anyone else.

To answer your question: apartment mortgage Ulster Bank. New mortgage BOI. It was head recking dealing with them. They were terrible.
They drag the process out and out and can keep asking you for stupid things or things you have already given them.

pippip

My wife and I just got a second mortgage with Bank of Ireland. we are the same as others 250k (ebs mortgage) purchase in 2006 now worth 90k approx. Believe me, back then that was a bargain of a purchase and we were over the moon. Went up to 300k before all went tits up.

In the link below is the number for Damien, their mobile rep, who we used. He'll call to you (work or home) and discuss your options. You can have a more "off the record" sort of chat with him and he will advise what to disclose and what needs to be in order.

Would highly recommend him. Extremely friendly and professional.

http://personalbanking.bankofireland.com/borrow/mortgages/mobile-mortgage-managers/

Sugarcake

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Yeah we fought back. But it was very stressful. I think I understand how isolated you feel. Because when we were down no-one gave a cr*p. Family say silly things like "ah sure the price will come back up" but you want your child to have a bit a space now not when they have emigrated to Oz.

You also get the "ah sure rent and rent". This can work in some cases. For us it wouldn't have worked. It would have meant we had to flesh out 400 euro extra or so a month. So that wasn't a long term a good idea. But it works for others. Also, not meaning to sound sinister but some people know they will get an inheritance some day - a big one. So they don't care if they spend 10 years wasting money on rent. We're not in that boat. The other head recking people are the ones who didn't buy in 2004 - 2008 and just say things like "I knew it was all a bubble". Ok, well f off then. Congrats on being a suppressed economist. Basically every Irish person has been shafted on their mortgage since 1999. Even now, if you pay 250K for your 3 bed semi you are still being ripped off paying the banks 15K a year on interest and paying the land owner about 150K for doing nothing. The lad who put the bricks down was probably on a crapy daily rate. The property thing is still a rip off. And always will be.

In our case, the escape all started with trying to earn as much as you can. That can mean upskiling or doing something you don't want to do to get more money.

One other option is to emigrate. But whatever you do don't listen to the people with rich parents, or the suppressed economists. They are the me feiners who will never help you or anyone else.

To answer your question: apartment mortgage Ulster Bank. New mortgage BOI. It was head recking dealing with them. They were terrible.
They drag the process out and out and can keep asking you for stupid things or things you have already given them.

WOW that is exactly how I feel most of the time and I totally agree anyone who bought outside the boom has no idea. My Sister In Law bought recently, in a nice enough area in Dublin and she is paying about half what we are and still complaining...in a way the whole thing has made me slightly bitter and it is a trait I detest but I often find myself being just that now. Its tough I know it is, it hasn't ever been easy in the last couple of years. We are not in an inheritance situation either. But we will get there now, I am going to look at every suggestion everyone has put to me. I am so glad you and your Wife and Children got through that, it sounds like you really deserve it, well done. I actually bet you find people probably being jealous now you have two homes, you certainly didn't get them handed to you. I really wish you the best and I hope everything continues to keep moving in the right direction for you.

Sugarcake

pippip wrote: »

My wife and I just got a second mortgage with Bank of Ireland. we are the same as others 250k (ebs mortgage) purchase in 2006 now worth 90k approx. Believe me, back then that was a bargain of a purchase and we were over the moon. Went up to 300k before all went tits up.

In the link below is the number for Damien, their mobile rep, who we used. He'll call to you (work or home) and discuss your options. You can have a more "off the record" sort of chat with him and he will advise what to disclose and what needs to be in order.

Would highly recommend him. Extremely friendly and professional.

http://personalbanking.bankofireland.com/borrow/mortgages/mobile-mortgage-managers/

Thanks for this, I will definitely talk to him.

Tim Robbins

Sugarcake wrote: »

I actually bet you find people probably being jealous now you have two homes, you certainly didn't get them handed to you. I really wish you the best and I hope everything continues to keep moving in the right direction for you.

Yeah the first thing people say to us is ask us do we sell or rent our apartment?
No-one ever says something like "I am so happy you managed to get out of that apartment". That's Irish people for you thou - I am sure the 100 people who are losing their jobs because Superquinn / SuperValue are sick of people being more worried about the sausages than them losing their jobs.

On other hand we know loads of lovely families who are still stuck in the apartment block. You'd feel awkward / guilty talking to them, that they are still stuck there. Survivor guilt is something I never experienced before.

If you end up living in a middle of the road area you'll find loads in the same boat. When I met my son's friends', I hear all sorts of stories of people working two jobs etc to get out of their mess.

jlm29

If you owe the cu 9k, and have shares worth 7k, then in only a few months, you could probably use your shares to clear your loan- that would free up a big chunk of money every month, I know you might be reluctant to do this, because it would leave you without that chunk of savings, but it is an option.
And I think it's really important to decide if the house or the location is more important. It would be awful to spend money on that extension, and then decide you still don't like the area and want to move. You might never get back that money.
So if you did clear your loan in the cu, and free up €500 pm, and then rent out your house for €400, you have €900 to rent and maybe save some money again, or try to pay off your other depts.

ericstairs

SugarCake-
Im saddened to hear about your situation. I can only pass on information that I know others in your circumstance have had and used to their benefit. Banks can accept an 'Official Offer' which is a sum that you can afford, maybe only 1/4 the original mortgage, this is accepted more and more, check out TNSradio and look into 'Official Offer'.
I see lots of people here are frustrated with the system, I would suggest handing the bank the keys to the apartment, telling them you were duped by 'Estate Agents' in collusion with the 'Banks' whom conspired to artificially raise the purchase price to hundreds of percent its true value.
If they don't take the keys and cut their losses then make the official offer based on current value of their property, and it is the banks property.
Let them keep it, or if you decide you should keep it, handing over over one hundred grand for no return, because you feel obliged, is an awful kind thing to do for them, and their system.
Resistance is victory.

Sugarcake

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Yeah the first thing people say to us is ask us do we sell or rent our apartment?
No-one ever says something like "I am so happy you managed to get out of that apartment". That's Irish people for you thou - I am sure the 100 people who are losing their jobs because Superquinn / SuperValue are sick of people being more worried about the sausages than them losing their jobs.

On other hand we know loads of lovely families who are still stuck in the apartment block. You'd feel awkward / guilty talking to them, that they are still stuck there. Survivor guilt is something I never experienced before.

If you end up living in a middle of the road area you'll find loads in the same boat. When I met my son's friends', I hear all sorts of stories of people working two jobs etc to get out of their mess.

I was just thinking that about SQ this morning listening to the radio! The Company my Husband is now working for are equipment suppliers to SQ so that is now a bit worrying also, he just said they will all have to wait and see and hope Musgraves keep them, it may also be an opportunity for them to get more business if they play it right.
I can see how different your outlook probably is on life now in just a few years, I have really learned you never know what is going on in other peoples lives, you can never judge. People probably look at us, two jobs etc and think we should be comfortable, you just never know.

Sugarcake

jlm29 wrote: »

If you owe the cu 9k, and have shares worth 7k, then in only a few months, you could probably use your shares to clear your loan- that would free up a big chunk of money every month, I know you might be reluctant to do this, because it would leave you without that chunk of savings, but it is an option.
And I think it's really important to decide if the house or the location is more important. It would be awful to spend money on that extension, and then decide you still don't like the area and want to move. You might never get back that money.
So if you did clear your loan in the cu, and free up €500 pm, and then rent out your house for €400, you have €900 to rent and maybe save some money again, or try to pay off your other depts.

I didnt think they would allow you to do this? You could be totally right I just never knew. An extra €500 per month at the moment would be massive to us. I know our savings would be literally wiped out but we could start again. That has opened my eyes, thank you!

OMD

Sugarcake wrote: »

I didnt think they would allow you to do this? You could be totally right I just never knew. An extra €500 per month at the moment would be massive to us. I know our savings would be literally wiped out but we could start again. That has opened my eyes, thank you!

Sounds possible. You owe them 9,000 but they owe you 7,000 your net bill is only 2000 which you could pay off in 4 months.


Plus are you sure about your mortgage costs. You say you are paying €1,000 a month on a tracker over 35 years. Sounds wrong. What rate are you on?

Sugarcake

OMD wrote: »

Sounds possible. You owe them 9,000 but they owe you 7,000 your net bill is only 2000 which you could pay off in 4 months.


Plus are you sure about your mortgage costs. You say you are paying €1,000 a month on a tracker over 35 years. Sounds wrong. What rate are you on?

It is actually closer to €900, and this actually includes our Home Insurance monthly repayment. I am not sure of the Rate but it is Tracker so this is normally the ECB Rate plus PTSB Rate. We also get TRS and I cant remember again but this is worth about €150 per month? So our Repayments incl. the Insurance are about €900.

I am going to look at my CU Statements when I get home, but I only got one last month and it was not much over €9k with I think €6900 savings. The thoughts that this might work has put a smile on my face today

OMD

Sugarcake wrote: »

It is actually closer to €900, and this actually includes our Home Insurance monthly repayment. I am not sure of the Rate but it is Tracker so this is normally the ECB Rate plus PTSB Rate. We also get TRS and I cant remember again but this is worth about €150 per month?

I am going to look at my CU Statements when I get home, but I only got one last month and it was not much over €9k with I think €6900 savings. The thoughts that this might work has put a smile on my face today

Look at changing you house insurance then. You can insure with anyone and insuring with the bank themselves is rarely (probably never) the cheapest way. A rate of 1% over ECB (which was a very common rate) over 35 years means you should be repaying €750 a month before TRS. €900, even including insurance sounds high.

• Ensure you are getting TRS
• Shop around on Internet for best value home insurance
• Shop around for best life assurance quotes. I can PM you a good broker that will give a seriously reduced rate for the first year. Unsure if I'm allowed post it here

Changing these could easily save you another €100 a month if not more. My house is 4 bed roomed and my insurance is only €35 a month

Sugarcake

Please PM me, that would be great. I am thinking it is about 2%-3% plus ECB but definitely not as low as 1%. I will check it out. Thanks for the reply.

OMD

Sugarcake wrote: »

Please PM me, that would be great. I am thinking it is about 2%-3% plus ECB but definitely not as low as 1%. I will check it out. Thanks for the reply.

PM sent

Ray Palmer

Fri.Day wrote: »

Just reading through this thread I was thinking a little outside the box!

You said you`ve plenty of space around the house so could yoe see your way to rent the house around €400 per month and live rentfree in a mobile home/chalet out the back???
Something like this?
http://www.donedeal.ie/mobilehomes-for-sale/mobile-home/5223763
Pwurple`s suggestions re mortgage top ups and your ECCE year coming up will give you a bit of a breather.
It could be as short term as you need as you said 3 years and ye`ll have paid off old loans.
Hope that helps

You need planning permission to put them any where. The councils are not keen on them either especially for a long term use. Not many people will rent a place with the LL in the garden.

They can be very nice inside. A friend had one with two bed room and one was en-suit.

jlm29

Sugarcake wrote: »

It is actually closer to €900, and this actually includes our Home Insurance monthly repayment. I am not sure of the Rate but it is Tracker so this is normally the ECB Rate plus PTSB Rate. We also get TRS and I cant remember again but this is worth about €150 per month? So our Repayments incl. the Insurance are about €900.

I am going to look at my CU Statements when I get home, but I only got one last month and it was not much over €9k with I think €6900 savings. The thoughts that this might work has put a smile on my face today

I'm thrilled that I've managed to put a smile on your face!! I'm sure that its correct- once your loan balance drops below your share balance you can clear it. It would be such a weight off your minds. And you'd also pay much less interest over the next few years too. Savings all round!

ams

For DIY inspiration check out the studio apartments featured on Apartment Therapy:

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/categories/studio

Its amazing what you can do with a little inventiveness

fed up sick and tired

Sugarcake wrote: »

Thank you for this information. We can afford to pay our mortgage, yes it is a struggle and yes we are left with virtually nothing and we are also both employed. Surely I couldn't just decide I don't want this house that I agreed to buy and turn my back on it and the debt? This Country is already a mess without people doing this?

Get real. By any common sense definition, you can NOT afford your mortgage. By common sense, I mean that a) after paying it you have ''virtually nothing''; and b) your marriage,which is I assume vastly more important than a house, is suffering.

You can't afford it. That is your starting point.

Now go from there. You need to change your childish mindset about debt, and about morality. People like you are a gift to all the moneymen and conmen, the shills, the politicians.

The country is a mess whether or not you renege on this foolish debt. There are any number of moralising know-alls here and everywhere who will give you the standard line about paying your debts.

We all know that, we were all brought up the same. It's a reasonable and justifiable line, for sure, but there's too much of the condescending in it. The banks had a duty of care too, by the way.

Don't worry, there are plenty who will be sheep all their lives, even if you decide not to be one.

You have to decide what you priorities are. They are, or should be your husband and child. Put them first, and as selfishly as you feel you need to. Get on with your life and stop being so timid about a state, a country, and an economy that demonstrably doesn't give a damn about you and your family.

Get out of this country altogether if you can, if you both have valuable skills, and while you're young. Seriously.

What I am suggesting for you to do is not ''right''. But it is right for you. And considering where this country is headed over the next years, that is more important.

Now, of course, I'll be paying for this. I didn't buy at the top, didn't get sucked into the madness, I pay all my debts and have a reasonable/frugal/healthy lifestyle.

AS a total aside, but on the same subject... as I have a good number of relatives in Poland - I know of more than one case where happily married couples are bringing up 3- to 8 yr. olds in a one-bedroom flat. The child uses the bedroom and the parents have a sofa bed.

It's a perfectly acceptable and accepted arrangement. It's all about expectations. We in this country have gone too far away from knowing the difference between needs and wants, in the pursuit of ''lifestyle''.

You don't, for a few years yet, need a second bedroom. You just need to stop thinking that you do.

Good luck.

Sugarcake

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

Get real. By any common sense definition, you can NOT afford your mortgage. By common sense, I mean that a) after paying it you have ''virtually nothing''; and b) your marriage,which is I assume vastly more important than a house, is suffering.

You can't afford it. That is your starting point.

Now go from there. You need to change your childish mindset about debt, and about morality. People like you are a gift to all the moneymen and conmen, the shills, the politicians.

The country is a mess whether or not you renege on this foolish debt. There are any number of moralising know-alls here and everywhere who will give you the standard line about paying your debts.

We all know that, we were all brought up the same. It's a reasonable and justifiable line, for sure, but there's too much of the condescending in it. The banks had a duty of care too, by the way.

Don't worry, there are plenty who will be sheep all their lives, even if you decide not to be one.

You have to decide what you priorities are. They are, or should be your husband and child. Put them first, and as selfishly as you feel you need to. Get on with your life and stop being so timid about a state, a country, and an economy that demonstrably doesn't give a damn about you and your family.

Get out of this country altogether if you can, if you both have valuable skills, and while you're young. Seriously.

What I am suggesting for you to do is not ''right''. But it is right for you. And considering where this country is headed over the next years, that is more important.

Now, of course, I'll be paying for this. I didn't buy at the top, didn't get sucked into the madness, I pay all my debts and have a reasonable/frugal/healthy lifestyle.

AS a total aside, but on the same subject... as I have a good number of relatives in Poland - I know of more than one case where happily married couples are bringing up 3- to 8 yr. olds in a one-bedroom flat. The child uses the bedroom and the parents have a sofa bed.

It's a perfectly acceptable and accepted arrangement. It's all about expectations. We in this country have gone too far away from knowing the difference between needs and wants, in the pursuit of ''lifestyle''.

You don't, for a few years yet, need a second bedroom. You just need to stop thinking that you do.

Good luck.

My Husband and My Son are my priorities. I am not in this on my own, never have been, this is my husband and I together trying to sort out a mess we created and committed to. Yes we are able to make our mortgage repayments, we could easily turn our backs but at the end of the day we signed to make the repayments. We could say we can't afford to pay our mortgage but we can afford meals out every weekend, holidays, upgrade our car with the money we should be using to pay our mortgage we committed to. You can say I am a sheep if you want. I don't want to sit back and blame anyone for my situation, it's not me and I honestly believe with hard work and a goal in mind we are going to get where we want to be, we are just try to figure out now the best route to get there.

fed up sick and tired

Sugarcake wrote: »

.. but it is becoming more and more difficult... We cant borrow to extend as we got into arrears on loans etc so we are still struggling to pay them, after our Mortgage, Bills, Repayments, Childcare, food etc we literally have zero left. We are both pretty miserable at this stage, every day is such a struggle,
Our Home is our main struggle, the location we hate...
I wish I could close the door on the house and forget about it at this stage and he is the same, it causes every argument we have, we just feel so trapped there... We just have no quality of life at the moment. We don't spend stupidly, seldom go out or treat ourselves to ...

Those are parts of your op that stand out for me.

Only you can decide whether or not your belief in hard work will see you through, and whether or not that would be a Pyrrhic victory at the end of the day.

I wish you well.

Moonbeam

Could you maybe get a mobile home and put it on the site and use it for sleeping and the house for living until your situation improves?

LINE45

Sugarcake, you seem to have got loads of good advice from others, so I suggest that you and your husband should go through all the replies, and start making a plan, you have a lot of work to do it won't be easy but you will get there in the end and don't make any hasty decisions that you may regret. I wish you all the best and hope it works out.

Ray Palmer

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

Get real. By any common sense definition, you can NOT afford your mortgage. By common sense, I mean that a) after paying it you have ''virtually nothing''; and b) your marriage,which is I assume vastly more important than a house, is suffering.

.

What I don't think people understand about this "solution" is it pretty much means you will never buy a house and you are stuck renting for the rest of your life. Fine if you never wanted to buy but it is people who obviously wanted to buy that this advice is been given to.

Then of course the advice on how you weren't stupid and didn't fall for the property bubble. If you read the thread the OP already complained about those with superior attitudes. Talking about sheep when you should look at your own comments for being a member of another herd of "hindsighters".

Sugarcake

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What I don't think people understand about this "solution" is it pretty much means you will never buy a house and you are stuck renting for the rest of your life. Fine if you never wanted to buy but it is people who obviously wanted to buy that this advice is been given to.

Then of course the advice on how you weren't stupid and didn't fall for the property bubble. If you read the thread the OP already complained about those with superior attitudes. Talking about sheep when you should look at your own comments for being a member of another herd of "hindsighters".

Exactly Ray, we do want to own our home and don't want to end up renting for the rest of our lives. We have not been in the situation where we cant pay our mortgage so I don't see any reason why we should do this, it is not what we want. The idea of renting for a short period is fine but we like the security of our own home. I have had some eye opening responses on this, people have really helped which is what I was hoping for, I never thought for a second any of the responses would be plain and simple, we still have a long way to go from where we are but the solutions and advice offered by so many people have helped us see where we are headed.

StillWaters

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What I don't think people understand about this "solution" is it pretty much means you will never buy a house and you are stuck renting for the rest of your life. Fine if you never wanted to buy but it is people who obviously wanted to buy that this advice is been given to".

But home ownership has no benefits in this scenario. The OP is an a location she hates, with an unsuitable house that will be in NE for the next 15 years or thereabouts. I'd be off and aiming for a cash purchase in 10 years.

But she has made her choice.
I too wish you well OP.

Sugarcake

StillWaters wrote: »

But home ownership has no benefits in this scenario. The OP is an a location she hates, with an unsuitable house that will be in NE for the next 15 years or thereabouts. I'd be off and aiming for a cash purchase in 10 years.

But she has made her choice.
I too wish you well OP.

Thank you for the Well Wishes. What I am almost certain we are going to do now is use our savings in CU to clear down our loan, this should be possible in the next four months. My husband has already made some of the steps to start an extension but we should be able to actually afford this within a year without the CU Repayments. We cant and really don't want to borrow again if possible. The house will have more space which is what we would like. Then what we would look at doing in the next 3 Years hopefully is either selling or renting our home and moving closer to family. We have put a lot of blood, sweat, tears and money into that house to walk away now with nothing. We will also have the added benefit of the ECCE Year next year to help with Childcare Costs. When we put these plans in years, 3 years will fly by, we just need to work hard and stick to our goals to achieve them. Its the thought that "will we ever be able to" that scares me, now I feel like we have a plan and know what we are doing. It just makes sense to us. I know the area is not ideal but we can live with it and certainly have done, I felt negative and miserable about our home and money at the start of the week and although we don't want to be there forever 3 years is nothing if you look at the bigger picture

therunaround

I know damn all about building, but just on electrics in an extension, can a person just run an extension lead through the wall from the existing house and use a standing lamp rather than a ceiling light, and for plugging in a phone charger/ small appliances? Would this remove the cost of wiring and certificates?

fed up sick and tired

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What I don't think people understand about this "solution" is it pretty much means you will never buy a house and you are stuck renting for the rest of your life. Fine if you never wanted to buy but it is people who obviously wanted to buy that this advice is been given to.

Then of course the advice on how you weren't stupid and didn't fall for the property bubble. If you read the thread the OP already complained about those with superior attitudes. Talking about sheep when you should look at your own comments for being a member of another herd of "hindsighters".

If you think people don't understand my solution, don't see the implication of it, then I suggest they haven't done enough research before taking on a multi-decade financial commitment.

There are some superior attitudes underlying the idea of people being ''stuck renting'' too.

Whether they wanted to buy or not is irrelevant to the advice being given. The ''wanting to buy'' mentality is what has the OP in this situation, so I think I can justify a suggestion of moving away from that.

I didn't read the thread, I read the OP. Very carefully. I have no idea what you mean by ''hindsighters'', and I suspect neither do you.

I didn't intend a superior tone, I'm simply saying that I'm not unaware that the consequence of the OP taking my advice would be that people like myself will end up paying for it. And yet... Food for thought, isn't it ?

There was plenty of compelling ''foresight'' from at least 2005 that I'm aware of, and luckily (?) for me the non-economist, I digested some of that. But I always do my research.

Foresight, if you like.

Ray Palmer

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

I didn't read the thread, I read the OP. Very carefully. I have no idea what you mean by ''hindsighters'', and I suspect neither do you.
.

Well you should have read the thread before posting something that has already been clearly addressed. You should have read it before posting a second time too. Your view and opinion has been answered and already noted as not required.