Trapped in One Bedroom House

fed up sick and tired

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Well you should have read the thread before posting something that has already been clearly addressed. You should have read it before posting a second time too. Your view and opinion has been answered and already noted as not required.

''Please advise me, but only tell me what I would like to hear''.

I think you can drop the Walter Raleigh stuff, now.

My suggestion may not be required here, but do bear in mind that people search threads for similar situations to their own. So the advice is still good, even if some easily ''head-recked'' people don't want to hear it. At least I haven't descended to telling anyone to f off.

Anyway I read the thread, and the story is even worse than I thought.

The OP a) doesn't know for sure the term of the mortgage, or the rate; and b) doesn't know that once shares match loans, the CU will allow you to offset the one with the other. Actually, the CU will possibly advise on having a minimum in the a/c but that's splitting hairs at this point.

I mean, what the hell ? ? ? That is financial illiteracy.

pwurple

Yes, it is a level of financial illiteracy.... Not at all uncommon, plenty of people have had no exposure either formally or informally to any kind of financial training. It's optional at every level in our education system, and I would say many people's parents were also unexposed.

Which is why they are asking for help and advice.

Are they not permitted to ask questions and try to figure it out?


Perhaps you could assist with some knowledge transfer instead of throwing out insults and denegration?

fed up sick and tired

pwurple wrote: »

Yes, it is a level of financial illiteracy.... Not at all uncommon, plenty of people have had no exposure either formally or informally to any kind of financial training. It's optional at every level in our education system, and I would say many people's parents were also unexposed.

Which is why they are asking for help and advice.

Are they not permitted to ask questions and try to figure it out?


Perhaps you could assist with some knowledge transfer instead of throwing out insults and denegration?

I gave help and advice.

Since you agree that it is financial illiteracy, then you are insulting and denigrating no less than I am. Not that I intended to be so.

If you read less selectively, you will see that people are also denigrated as ''suppressed economists'' who should just ''f*** off'', when they give help and advice that others don't want to hear.

But that is the nature of help and advice, and a person who doesn't have the sense to know the rate they're paying, the term of the contract, or the way one of the most simple aspects of how a credit union works (!)...

is surely a dupe to herd mentality that says that you simply must pay back three, four, or five times back what your ''asset'' will ever be worth. It is a very valuable exercise then to offer an alternative. I'm not making anybody do anything.

Plenty of people have had no exposure either formally or informally to any kind of financial training, that is very true. But a very significant number of them do have a modicum of cop on, and that has made all the difference, it seems.

beeno67

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

I gave help and advice.

Since you agree that it is financial illiteracy, then you are insulting and denigrating no less than I am. Not that I intended to be so.

If you read less selectively, you will see that people are also denigrated as ''suppressed economists'' who should just ''f*** off'', when they give help and advice that others don't want to hear.

But that is the nature of help and advice, and a person who doesn't have the sense to know the rate they're paying, the term of the contract, or the way one of the most simple aspects of how a credit union works (!)...

is surely a dupe to herd mentality that says that you simply must pay back three, four, or five times back what your ''asset'' will ever be worth. It is a very valuable exercise then to offer an alternative. I'm not making anybody do anything.

Plenty of people have had no exposure either formally or informally to any kind of financial training, that is very true. But a very significant number of them do have a modicum of cop on, and that has made all the difference, it seems.

Your solution was to get out of the country.

One of the OPs problem was
our" Home is our main struggle, the location we hate and spend most of the time on the road, we are about half an hour away from family. If we lived closer to family life would also be so much easier for our child"


Not really a great solution. Problem is living a half hour from family. Your solution, move further away

Kettleson

This is the real problem with Boards.ie

ie: a person is genuinely seeking positive advice and guidance and seems to be benefitting from it by receiving some very well considered and helpful opinions. Boards absolutely rocks when that happens!

And then there are others that use the thread to air their own generalisations and in doing so direct their seeming frustration re: our economic situation at one person. So, so annoying and unnecessary.

Surely there is a more suitable Forum for such general economic discussion.

fed up sick and tired

beeno67 wrote: »

Your solution was to get out of the country.

One of the OPs problem was
our" Home is our main struggle, the location we hate and spend most of the time on the road, we are about half an hour away from family. If we lived closer to family life would also be so much easier for our child"


Not really a great solution. Problem is living a half hour from family. Your solution, move further away

I wouldn't say that as a problem it particularly stands out amongst all this...

.. but it is becoming more and more difficult... We cant borrow to extend as we got into arrears on loans etc so we are still struggling to pay them, after our Mortgage, Bills, Repayments, Childcare, food etc we literally have zero left. We are both pretty miserable at this stage, every day is such a struggle,
Our Home is our main struggle, the location we hate...
I wish I could close the door on the house and forget about it at this stage and he is the same, it causes every argument we have, we just feel so trapped there... We just have no quality of life at the moment. We don't spend stupidly, seldom go out or treat ourselves to ...

Here's another piece of advice - if you remove this debt noose from your neck now, and take some pain (but no more than you're facing anyway), you'll probably be able to save enough to buy a similar or better property for cash in a few years.

fed up sick and tired

Kettleson wrote: »

This is the real problem with Boards.ie

ie: a person is genuinely seeking positive advice and guidance and seems to be benefitting from it by receiving some very well considered and helpful opinions. Boards absolutely rocks when that happens!

And then there are others that use the thread to air their own generalisations and in doing so direct their seeming frustration re: our economic situation at one person. So, so annoying and unnecessary.

Surely there is a more suitable Forum for such general economic discussion.

People who clearly are in over their heads, ''But surely I could never do x, y, or z...''

are being offered options and alternatives that they have clearly not considered, may not see as viable, but may yet come to do so.

Perfectly valid.

wexie

Kettleson wrote: »

This is the real problem with Boards.ie

ie: a person is genuinely seeking positive advice and guidance and seems to be benefitting from it by receiving some very well considered and helpful opinions. Boards absolutely rocks when that happens!

This times lots and lots.

There are plenty of interesting threads for hypothetical discussions etc. But it always gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling when you see a thread like this where someone is genuinely getting good help and 'the boards community' has made someone feel better.

Electric Sheep

pwurple wrote: »

Yes, it is a level of financial illiteracy.... Not at all uncommon, plenty of people have had no exposure either formally or informally to any kind of financial training. It's optional at every level in our education system, and I would say many people's parents were also unexposed.

Which is why they are asking for help and advice.

Are they not permitted to ask questions and try to figure it out?


Perhaps you could assist with some knowledge transfer instead of throwing out insults and denegration?

I think the problem in Ireland is that so many people did not ask the questions and try to figure it out BEFORE they took out a mortgage. That is the time for the figuring and questioning - before you make what is probably going to be the biggest financial commitment of your life!

OP, I hope you are able to work out a way to improve things. But think things through very carefully before you take action, whatever action you choose to take.

Kettleson

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

People who clearly are in over their heads, ''But surely I could never do x, y, or z...''

are being offered options and alternatives that they have clearly not considered, may not see as viable, but may yet come to do so.

Perfectly valid.

I agreed with a lot of what you had said generally, but it did not apply to the request of the OP for specific advice.

How about "have you considered emigrating and handing the keys to the bank?" and take it from there.

The tone of some posts are about hand-holding, others dish out a few well aimed slaps.

fed up sick and tired

Kettleson wrote: »

I agreed with a lot of what you had said generally, but it did not apply to the request of the OP for specific advice.

How about "have you considered emigrating and handing the keys to the bank?" and take it from there.

The tone of some posts are about hand-holding, others dish out a few well aimed slaps.

Point taken, and thank you.

Sugarcake

We certainly are thinking everything through. We know the mistake we've made and only have ourselves to blame. Of course I know the term of my mortgage and the rates, I just didn't have the exact figures to hand and didn't want to give incorrect information. We are doing well even the fact we are on a Tracker. Yes I didn't realise we could do this with the CU I always thought you had to leave your shares untouched for the term of the loan. I am not trying to make excuses for mistakes I've made but I can't dwell either.

I am really delighted with the great advice I have got since I posted, some great advice that has already helped so much and thank you everyone who has contributed with such positive advice. Walking away won't ever be an option.

December2012

Sugarcake I can't give you any advice on finances or building.

But what I can tell you is that disagreements over money and communication can be terminal to a relationship.

So try as much as you can for you and your husband to communicate, communicate, communicate.

Enjoy the things that are free, take comfort in what you can - eg my friends 5 year old has a lovely bedroom of his own, yet every morning when she wakes up the 5 year old asleep in their bed beside them! Your son may have been the same anyway!

Make each other smile and laugh every day.

Think of the future, one year away, five years away, 10 years away.

Think of how far you've come.

Try to look on this as a team project - a "me and you can do it together baby!" Kind of thing.

Enjoy the fact that you are going to be more financially savvy in the future and won't be in this mess again.

Good luck.

digzy

Hi op,

Just read the thread. I can really empathise with your situation. Must echo what's been said already re keeping positive.
I know it doesn't appear so but there are some positives here which you should try and focus on.
You have a healthy family. There's a lot to be said for having that. I was listening to a family on radio last week whose daughter had the skin condition EB. Sounds like hell.
Secondly, ye're working which sets a great example to your child.
Thirdly, it sounds like you've a stand alone house. Look at the mess you'd be in if ye were in the 'semi-d" estate like so many-myself included- where the local authority nor builders finish the place off or the council don't own the adjacent house-yep, me again:rolleyes:- so that's very important rearing a child too.

Tbf to the 'bankruptcy' suggestion advocated earlier I'd be inclined to concur from a financial view. However, I dunno if I'd have the balls to see it through. Upping sticks ain't easy like that.

In conclusion, you made a huge mistake.but You're in bloody good company too.
Anecdotally, a huge amount of guys 'with money' over the boom either put it into property, bank shares-supposedly the sure bet and we know how these stand. Fellas you' assume are well clued in like pat Kenny for example is up to his neck in it. So please focus on the positives in your life which ever way things work out.

womandriver

Tim Robbins wrote: »

OP was in similar situation for a three years.

Got married in 2009, wife made redundant during honeymoon and then very quickly pregnant. We lived in apartment bought in 2006 for 250 and worth probably about 140.

The only solution was for both of us to work and watch every penny. She got a job and I got a better one (better money - worse work). We watched every penny for 3 years. did things like gave up pension to save more.

Went back to bank and got another mortgage for a 3 bed semi.

One thing I'd say is when we went to banks:

1. They didn't really care about our pensions or lack of.
2. They didn't really check rigoursly if the apartment was in negative equity or not. We said we planned to rent it out and this would cover mortgage. It was on a tracker with another bank. The reality is it would not cover mortgage if you include expenses such as taxes and management fees.
3. They never went into details about childcare costs
4. I never told them she was pregnant with number 2.

So basically, I should never have got another mortgage. The current house has probably dropped by 25K (the media are misleading people quoting average prices as the millionare houses skew all stats).

But we managed to get out.

Pretty friggin stressful.

I understand somewhat what you are going thru. Terrible.

Wow!

Lie to the bank to get another mortgage that you couldn't afford if you told the truth?

Who's fault is it going to be when it turns out you can't afford this one?

The bankers I suppose......

Wouldn't be taking this kind of advice

ElKavo

Sugarcake wrote: »

Thanks for that advice, we already have a loan with them of €9k and we have €7k in Shares which of course we can't touch until the loan is repaid, we are paying them back €500 per month, we really struggled when I was on Mat Leave and they agreed we could reduce our repayments to €250 for the duration of my leave, this has left us with approximately €1500 in arrears so I don't think they would allow us to borrow again. I suppose I can only ask though, nothing to loose at this stage. Regarding our Mortgage we took that out over the maximum period we could, I'm almost certain 35 Years again when we were in difficulty we spoke to them and this wasn't possible. At the moment we are just about keeping on top of any repayments and have never went into arrears on our Mortgage.

Hi Sugarcake,

You should be able to write off your savings to your loan as long as you stay to a 4:1 ratio.

I recently did this with my own credit union. Here is what i sent to them.

"I am unsure If this is possible but perhaps you could shed some light on it
for me. Going on the presumption that the loan to share ratio is 4:1 would
it be possible to use shares to payoff loan. I give my example below.

I have 9.5k loan and 6.5k savings. The savings are not earning nearly as
much as the loan is costing me. Is it possible to say reduce both amounts
in keeping to the 4:1 ratio? I.E if I kept ?1k in the savings and reduced
the loan by the ?5.5k bringing the loan ?4k and keeping the loan to savings
ratio to 4:1. Thereby reducing the interest bill, as it would then be on
?4k as opposed to ?9.5k

This would help greatly in my monthly expenses and also speed up the time
to total loan repayment."

This reduced our out goings on the loan greatly and we are now clear of the loan. The credit union did resist at first. See below

"I am emailing you in relation to your request detailed below.

I am unsure as to where you received the information on ratio's however we do not base transfers on this. Any request for share transfer must go to our board of directors. "

and then I was able to go back to them with ... See Below.

"I had been looking for the reference with the 4:1 ratio but It seems that I have given the incorrect information. It is a 25% minimum loan to share ratio so in other words 25% = 4:1 but I apologize for being unclear. This information comes from The Credit union act 1997 section 32 Point 3 B, From the Irish statute book. Here is a direct link to the act / section. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0015/sec0032.html#sec32. While I realize it must still go to a vote I just wanted to let you know that I didn't just pull the number out of the sky. Again to clarify I simply want to offset the shares to loan to reduce the overall liability of the loan and I do not want to withdraw the shares therefore there is no change in the overall/net indebtedness.

Thanks again for your consideration and I look forward to your reply."

Perhaps If you were to follow the same route it will free up some cash for your extension / move. Your paying about 500 pm to the credit union as it stands? That is cash that would suit you much better than them.

Anyway hope this helps you out. We are in a not dissimilar situation and are nearing the end of our "set up" debts and are planning on a move to a rented property closer to our parents ( we live over 1 hour away) and to an area with better services and facilities. There is light at the end of the tunnel and my god it sure does feel good when its within reach, so keep your head up be proud of yourself's because you are doing it all on your own!!

All the best.

D

turbot

As as interim solution, there are two things to consider:

1) If you have a garden, build a insulated shed to be used as an extra bedroom.

2) Alternatively, you could get a mobile home for 5k and dpending on laws, put this on your site too.

Other than that, remember that in many cities like Tokyo, space is an absolute premium so they are pretty good at getting the most out of small spaces. Your displeasure is based on the way you think (which may be more toxic for your child than the physical size of the space itself.) So - for as long as you can't change it, it is within our gift to change your attitude and you should. Even your description "trapped" shows you are working against yourself by the way you think. Loads of people even in Dublin from disadvantaged backgrounds live in small spaces and many don't let it bring them down.

fed up sick and tired

turbot wrote: »

As as interim solution, there are two things to consider:

1) If you have a garden, build a insulated shed to be used as an extra bedroom.

2) Alternatively, you could get a mobile home for 5k and dpending on laws, put this on your site too.

Other than that, remember that in many cities like Tokyo, space is an absolute premium so they are pretty good at getting the most out of small spaces. Your displeasure is based on the way you think (which may be more toxic for your child than the physical size of the space itself.) So - for as long as you can't change it, it is within our gift to change your attitude and you should. Even your description "trapped" shows you are working against yourself by the way you think. Loads of people even in Dublin from disadvantaged backgrounds live in small spaces and many don't let it bring them down.

Food for thought, interesting post.

the_syco

turbot wrote: »

1) If you have a garden, build a insulated shed to be used as an extra bedroom.

On this point, building an insulated shed for storage would free up a lot of space. Alternatively, building a small insulated room on the side of the house, and use it as a kitchen. Use existing kitchen as a bedroom, and have the meals in the sitting room.

Tim Robbins

womandriver wrote: »

Wow!

Lie to the bank to get another mortgage that you couldn't afford if you told the truth?

Who's fault is it going to be when it turns out you can't afford this one?

The bankers I suppose......

Wouldn't be taking this kind of advice

Well if you want to be 100% sure you can pay your mortgage - give you children to foster care.

Reality is it is very hard to get a mortgage once you have children but once you have it very hard for the bank to kick you out. The odds move from greatly in their favour to greatly in your favour.

That said - it would be reckless to buy anything you fear you will never be able to repay. I never did that and it a misrepresentation by you to suggest that. the banks discriminate against people with kids. Even thou most of us are going to have them over the course of a 30 year mortgage - they just hit the parents that already have them the hardest.

There's no need for your patronising crap. There are thousands of families stuck in small apartments. They are going to have to really think hard how to get out because this country is full of me feiners so no-one will help them. What's your solution?

womandriver

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Well if you want to be 100% sure you can pay your mortgage - give you children to foster care.

Reality is it is very hard to get a mortgage once you have children but once you have it very hard for the bank to kick you out. The odds move from greatly in their favour to greatly in your favour.

That said - it would be reckless to buy anything you fear you will never be able to repay. I never did that and it a misrepresentation by you to suggest that. the banks discriminate against people with kids. Even thou most of us are going to have them over the course of a 30 year mortgage - they just hit the parents that already have them the hardest.

There's no need for your patronising crap. There are thousands of families stuck in small apartments. They are going to have to really think hard how to get out because this country is full of me feiners so no-one will help them. What's your solution?

Oh it's patronising crap now is it to suggest lying to the bank is not the smartest plan of action for someone already in financial difficulty?

I don't have a solution to your problems but I'm pretty sure 2 unsustainable mortgages instead of 1 isn't it tho ....

mickdw

It is actually a very good idea to suggest building a tiny kitchen- something like you would find in apartments. The kitchen consisting of a cupboard arrangement along one wall and just alittle work space. This would possibly allow the creation of a second bedroom within the house.
I would have no issue with keeping back some mortgage payments in the short term to achieve this.

the groutch

Op, have you considered the option of "selling" your tracker mortgage.

most banks want rid of trackers, and you might be able to negotiate a partial writedown of your mortgage in exchange for converting to variable rate.

the deal would probably benefit the bank financially in the long term, but would greatly help you getting things straightened out in the short/medium term.

mylittlepony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn2WXgp-Knw

Idbatterim

Op, in the short term, you could build a small extention to comprise of one bedroom or perhaps a bedroom and new kitchen. Dig the foundation yourselves, let top soil go for free, get windows for free (freecycle) etc. put on a flat roof, use electric heater in the bedroom (no need for additional plumbing etc) this could be done for fairly cheap to be honest...

What is the current breakdown of rooms in the cottage? is it just 1 bedroom, one living room and 1 small galley kitchen and 1 bathroom?

ronan45

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Well if you want to be 100% sure you can pay your mortgage - give you children to foster care.

Reality is it is very hard to get a mortgage once you have children but once you have it very hard for the bank to kick you out. The odds move from greatly in their favour to greatly in your favour.

That said - it would be reckless to buy anything you fear you will never be able to repay. I never did that and it a misrepresentation by you to suggest that. the banks discriminate against people with kids. Even thou most of us are going to have them over the course of a 30 year mortgage - they just hit the parents that already have them the hardest.

There's no need for your patronising crap. There are thousands of families stuck in small apartments. They are going to have to really think hard how to get out because this country is full of me feiners so no-one will help them. What's your solution?

"but once you have Children its very hard for the bank to kick you out"
So am i right in saying the following
Home Owner A) Single guy
Home Owner Married Couple with 2.4 Children
Home Owner C) Gay Couple no kids

They all default on say 24 months payments lets say

Home Owner B has most chance of keeping his house because he has some sprogs ! :eek: that cant be legal