Boundary walls

OMD

Uriel. wrote: »

I'm not sure about the light blocking it doesn't seem to be I haven't fully checked that yet.


I spoke with the builder who outlined that it was permitted to build as they done and that there will be no guttering on our side but there may be a 20mm overhang of the roof.


He says that if we build into the future we can build into the roof and work from there. He claims that they're building a support wall on the other side and we'd need to do the same if w build in the future

It doesn't make a lot sense to me to be honest but I'm not an expert in this field. I think I'll ask a mate who is in the construction game for his thoughts on that claim

I think you need to advise them to stop building immediately until you/they get a chance to sort this out. Advise them that any work done so far may have to be undone. If you let them continue to build it is much more difficult to later say you want the structure demolished.

Just to add here, it is not up to you to say how long the work will need to stop for. It may be a day, it may be 10 years. It is up to your neighbour to have everything sorted and he should have done this before starting work, at the very least he should have spoken to you.

Uriel.

Yeah, I had hoped discussing it with the builder would set things clearer.

It obviously hasn't. It appears the overhang will be the fascia. And surely that will impact on any work I decide to do on this side in the future.

My friend will come out to look tonight and then will decide the next step in the morning. I will have a word with the neighbour obviously as well, but I'd say it's gonna end in conflict no doubt. just what I need on a Friday :rolleyes:

Uriel.

I spoke to him again by chance in the garden and asked him not to do anything with the roof until he spoke to me again. He said not to worry the over hang would be minimal.

He was also asking if he could have access to plaster the wall. I'd generally have no issue with that. Then he says i think your neighbour might paint it as well to match it up.

Presumably he means on this side obviously

Uriel.

Work so far..

OMD

Uriel. wrote: »

I spoke to him again by chance in the garden and asked him not to do anything with the roof until he spoke to me again. He said not to worry the over hang would be minimal.

He was also asking if he could have access to plaster the wall. I'd generally have no issue with that. Then he says i think your neighbour might paint it as well to match it up.

Presumably he means on this side obviously

I know you don't want a row but I'm afraid there will be one. He must stop now and have proper discussions with you. No overhand should be permissible. It will seriously affect the ability of you to build an extension incorporating the party wall. Do not give permission to render wall either at the moment as this may later be construed as you giving permission for the extension. Do not even give them permission to enter your property.

PS. I have no legal qualification so what I say may be wrong but I did build an extension incorporating the party wall and picked up a fair bit doing so.

krieture

Id be very careful about how you proceed. Like people have said this could turn into a very tricky situation....

From what you have said its not clear if you have spoken to your neighbour. The builder will fob you off and tell you whatever suits him. At the end of the day he just wants to get the job done.

You need to talk to your neighbours and outline your concerns. They have to live there and live with the potentiel reprecussions. They are probably unaware (or ignorant) of your rights. Get onto them tonight!

P.S prefrerably with your builder friend.

spockety

Your restraint is incredible, I would be furious.

Your neighbour (via their builder) has put a tarp on your land to catch falling mortar from the construction of a wall they didn't even discuss with you in the first place! You have been trespassed at the very least.

If it doesn't end amicably it will not have been your fault, your neighbour is taking incredible liberties. If he/she was interested in good neighbourly relations with you they would have talked to you about the building work taking place weeks before the builders showed up.

I would call into your neighbour tonight and ask them to stop all works immediately, as you are not comfortable with what they have done for many reasons:

1) They didn't have the courtesy to discuss it with you
2) Although you are not a builder you have concerns about the structural viability of what their builder has done
3) They have trespassed on your land
4) Their builder has blatantly told you that they intend further trespassing by putting a 20mm overhang onto your property

Tell your neighbour that need to seek some advice from a planner or builder familiar with regulations and boundary considerations, and you will get back to them once you have done that. Make it clear to them that if they proceed with further building they are doing so at their own risk in terms of costs as it may very well get to a point where they are forced to remove everything they have put up.

I would then call your council's planning department and fill them in on what has happened and see what they say.

ezra_pound

He's already built on your property. You own one half of the wall and he's built on that half.

Moonbeam

does his planning permission allow for using the boundary wall?
I would be on my way in to have a chat with him before it proceeds anymore sot hat it does not have to be knocked at a later stage.

ButtersSuki

Morning OP, how did the chat go?

yoloc

If it were me, i wouldnt give a fcuk. Why fuss over something like this.

djimi

yoloc wrote: »

If it were me, i wouldnt give a fcuk. Why fuss over something like this.

The OP has said that they would like to put on an extension to their house in the near future, and if this one isnt done right then it could cause them problems. There is also concern over the wall that has been used and its ability to hold the new structure.

Most of all its because their next door neighbours didnt have the decency to discuss any of this with them before proceeding. If it was me Id be making their life awkward also. Bloody cheek of them.

yoloc

spockety wrote: »

Your restraint is incredible, I would be furious.

Your neighbour (via their builder) has put a tarp on your land to catch falling mortar from the construction of a wall they didn't even discuss with you in the first place! You have been trespassed at the very least.

If it doesn't end amicably it will not have been your fault, your neighbour is taking incredible liberties. If he/she was interested in good neighbourly relations with you they would have talked to you about the building work taking place weeks before the builders showed up.

I would call into your neighbour tonight and ask them to stop all works immediately, as you are not comfortable with what they have done for many reasons:

1) They didn't have the courtesy to discuss it with you
2) Although you are not a builder you have concerns about the structural viability of what their builder has done
3) They have trespassed on your land
4) Their builder has blatantly told you that they intend further trespassing by putting a 20mm overhang onto your property

Tell your neighbour that need to seek some advice from a planner or builder familiar with regulations and boundary considerations, and you will get back to them once you have done that. Make it clear to them that if they proceed with further building they are doing so at their own risk in terms of costs as it may very well get to a point where they are forced to remove everything they have put up.

I would then call your council's planning department and fill them in on what has happened and see what they say.

To me, that is nothing. Infact, its people moaning for very little and can cause quite alot of grief for their own and next doors families. This is a very small wall with a very small overhang. Yes in law terms maybe they are intruding into your space but ffs, 200mm. Its not as if they have came and blocked up your window without telling you. OP, i suggest you go out into teh real world and see teh problems people are suffereing everyday then maybe youll get some sort of perspective about this silly little thing

djimi

yoloc wrote: »

OP, i suggest you go out into teh real world and see teh problems people are suffereing everyday then maybe youll get some sort of perspective about this silly little thing

Easy to say from the comfort of your keyboard, but if it was you I can guarantee you would feel very different. We all have first world problems that seem insignificant when you compare them to the problems of others, but that doesnt mean that they are any less significant to us.

wexie

yoloc wrote: »

To me, that is nothing. Infact, its people moaning for very little and can cause quite alot of grief for their own and next doors families. This is a very small wall with a very small overhang. Yes in law terms maybe they are intruding into your space but ffs, 200mm. Its not as if they have came and blocked up your window without telling you. OP, i suggest you go out into teh real world and see teh problems people are suffereing everyday then maybe youll get some sort of perspective about this silly little thing

So it wouldn't bother you then if a neighbour potentially stopped you from extending your house then would it? Or made building an extension much more awkward / expensive?

spockety

yoloc wrote: »

To me, that is nothing. Infact, its people moaning for very little and can cause quite alot of grief for their own and next doors families. This is a very small wall with a very small overhang. Yes in law terms maybe they are intruding into your space but ffs, 200mm. Its not as if they have came and blocked up your window without telling you. OP, i suggest you go out into teh real world and see teh problems people are suffereing everyday then maybe youll get some sort of perspective about this silly little thing

Do you own a house? And if so, have you had experience of your neighbour attempting something like this?

The only grief that is being caused here is by the neighbour, not the OP.

handlemaster

OP is right to be careful with regards what to do. But the gloves are off the neighbour hasnt consulted at all ... strange at best . Th OP needs to stop typi g and address this with the neighbour pronto.As others said the builder is there to do a job. dont allow access to your property. that wall if not plastered will be wet want moldly before long.

yoloc

wexie wrote: »

So it wouldn't bother you then if a neighbour potentially stopped you from extending your house then would it? Or made building an extension much more awkward / expensive?

Not fact. Explain how it would effect his potential extension

yoloc

spockety wrote: »

Do you own a house? And if so, have you had experience of your neighbour attempting something like this?

The only grief that is being caused here is by the neighbour, not the OP.

YEs, i own a house and as i havent had any experience exactly like this, i can guarantee that it wouldnt bother me in the slightest. Look at the pics, all it is is a few block across and few block high. This isnt a whoile new structure where talking about thats going to cause the OP any bother other than the stress hes causing to himself.

Ray Palmer

The last picture is very worrying. What ever the builder said about a supporting wall doesn't appear to be true at all. I'd want a surveyor to sign off on the building in stages.

The boundary wall might be fine for this IF they inspected the foundations. If there is no gutter the overhang will be negligible. You really want a surveyor to say if you can build onto that later on. It looks like you will need to build another wall to support any extension you plan.

The best option would really have been to knock the wall and then put in a deeper foundation before building the wall back up. I would have insisted the new foundation could take a 2 story extension. This construction has seriously compromised what you can do later on.

mickyellow

Just completed a kitchen extension last month. Our builder asked us to seek permission from our neighbour if we would use the boundary wall. The neighbour wasn't keen on this. This was no issue. We built another wall on our side a few inches back from the boundary wall. Relations are fine with our neighbour. Our of courtesy you neighbour should have the decency to ask permission.

One point that was raised before is the safety of this structure. I'd doubt proper foundation work was done on this boundary wall in the first place. This could spell disaster in the future if this is the case. I wouldn't be keen on having a BBQ beside that wall anyway....

listermint

mickyellow wrote: »

Just completed a kitchen extension last month. Our builder asked us to seek permission from our neighbour if we would use the boundary wall. The neighbour wasn't keen on this. This was no issue. We built another wall on our side a few inches back from the boundary wall. Relations are fine with our neighbour. Our of courtesy you neighbour should have the decency to ask permission.

One point that was raised before is the safety of this structure. I'd doubt proper foundation work was done on this boundary wall in the first place. This could spell disaster in the future if this is the case. I wouldn't be keen on having a BBQ beside that wall anyway....

This in a nutshell,

A chat should have taken place before hand with the OP. Your builder obviously knew what they were doing. And also correct on whats below the ground (unknown)

Looks the the neighbours builder did not inform them correctly or did not care to.

Uriel.

Hi all,

I popped in last night to the neighbour but they weren't about, so haven't had a chat with them yet. The builder's are not onsite today to the best of my knowledge (I am not at home) but my mother is in the house and no one has been there today yet.

I suppose just to clear some things up.

The neighbour dropped in about 3 weeks ago (I wasn't at home at the time) and told my mother who was there at the time that they were building a kitchen extension at the back and work was to commence in a week or two. They didn't mention anything about building off the wall, overhangs etc...but just wanted to let us know that there'd be some noise and a skip on the roadway outside our houses.

To be clear, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with them building an extension. They're perfectly entitled to. That's not the issue. My issue is that:

1. They have built on the boundary wall (completely) without prior discussion/approval/agreement etc..
2. The plan appears to involve an overhang across the boundary line into my garden (without prior discussion/consent/approval)
3. The impact that the method of construction (not the fact that they are putting on an extension) will it seems impact on any future plans I have

The more I thought about it yesterday, the more annoyed I am to be honest - as it would seem that they were going to complete the construction, have the overhang etc... and without a care in the world to even discuss the topic with me.

Also, following my discussion with their builder, and my construction friend, while this idea of having steal supports to build my extension (not being in a position to use (50%) of the boundary wall now myself) is one way around the problem, it would seem that even to do that I would actually have to get my neighbour's permission to do "tamper" with their newly built roof/wall to accommodate work on my side. This permission may not be forthcoming.

It would seem to me that the neighbour didn't want to lose any potential space (width) in their extension and in doing so appear to be aiming to screw me over.

Uriel.

yoloc wrote: »

To me, that is nothing. Infact, its people moaning for very little and can cause quite alot of grief for their own and next doors families. This is a very small wall with a very small overhang. Yes in law terms maybe they are intruding into your space but ffs, 200mm. Its not as if they have came and blocked up your window without telling you. OP, i suggest you go out into teh real world and see teh problems people are suffereing everyday then maybe youll get some sort of perspective about this silly little thing

Do you suggest a cut off point, as to when something becomes trivial or not? Would you suggest I allow them build half their structure in my garden for example?

I have no issue with them building an extension, none whatsoever. The only issue I have is the way in which they appear to be going about it, particularly where they never informed us of or sought permission to use the boundary wall or for an overhang.

From advice here and with a friend in the business, the method of construction will have an impact on my property in the future. That's a cause to worry, considering it's the biggest investment I am ever likely to make in my life.

handlemaster

Uriel. wrote: »

Hi all,

I popped in last night to the neighbour but they weren't about, so haven't had a chat with them yet. The builder's are not onsite today to the best of my knowledge (I am not at home) but my mother is in the house and no one has been there today yet.

I suppose just to clear some things up.

The neighbour dropped in about 3 weeks ago (I wasn't at home at the time) and told my mother who was there at the time that they were building a kitchen extension at the back and work was to commence in a week or two. They didn't mention anything about building off the wall, overhangs etc...but just wanted to let us know that there'd be some noise and a skip on the roadway outside our houses.

To be clear, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with them building an extension. They're perfectly entitled to. That's not the issue. My issue is that:

1. They have built on the boundary wall (completely) without prior discussion/approval/agreement etc..
2. The plan appears to involve an overhang across the boundary line into my garden (without prior discussion/consent/approval)
3. The impact that the method of construction (not the fact that they are putting on an extension) will it seems impact on any future plans I have

The more I thought about it yesterday, the more annoyed I am to be honest - as it would seem that they were going to complete the construction, have the overhang etc... and without a care in the world to even discuss the topic with me.

Also, following my discussion with their builder, and my construction friend, while this idea of having steal supports to build my extension (not being in a position to use (50%) of the boundary wall now myself) is one way around the problem, it would seem that even to do that I would actually have to get my neighbour's permission to do "tamper" with their newly built roof/wall to accommodate work on my side. This permission may not be forthcoming.

It would seem to me that the neighbour didn't want to lose any potential space (width) in their extension and in doing so appear to be aiming to screw me over.

Make it your business to speak with him this evening. speaking with your mother doesnt count as letting you know what they intended to do. Even if he does get annoyed and I know it would be a big push by you but if you are not 100% happy you can ask him to remove the blocks off the boundary wall. Personally id rather have it out and if that was what I wanted Id say it and to hell with what he thinks after all it would annoy me looking at it everyday if I werent happy the first day with it. Also take their builder with a bag of salt hes not going to point out anything that will go against him having to redo work or for that matter stop you from building as you wish in the further.

Uriel.

handlemaster wrote: »

Make it your business to speak with him this evening. speaking with your mother doesnt count as letting you know what they intended to do. Even if he does get annoyed and I know it would be a big push by you but if you are not 100% happy you can ask him to remove the blocks off the boundary wall. Personally id rather have it out and if that was what I wanted Id say it and to hell with what he thinks after all it would annoy me looking at it everyday if I werent happy the first day with it. Also take their builder with a bag of salt hes not going to point out anything that will go against him having to redo work or for that matter stop you from building as you wish in the further.

I'd have no difficulty with them raising the issue with the mother. She spends as much time in the house as I do to be honest and actually knows the neighbour better than I do as I have kept myself to myself since I moved in.

But the fact is, all that was said to my mother that work was starting shortly and just to expect some noise for awhile and a skip outside the houses (neither of which are an issue) Nothing else was mentioned and no permission for anything was asked nor even discussed.

stooge

Talk with the neighbour first and foremost and if he is not in leave a message for him to contact you ASAP. If he is unwilling to compromise on the structure or if he doesnt want to engage in conversation then get your solicitor involved as well as the local council. dont be nicey nicey about this. It's your property which you probably paid dearly for. Having that extension hamper your ability to extend is reducing the value of your property.

martinn123

What should have happened here, is following agreement ,the boundary wall is removed.
The Boundary line is agreed with both parties, a new foundation is poured, and a new wall built, centered on the agreed line.
The foundations being wider than the wall, would be partly on the OP's side.

The wall would be built higher than the new roof, and capped, the new roof would be tied onto the wall under the capping.
In the future the OP could mirror his own extention tieing in his roof, under the capping.
In the meantime the neighbour should render the wall, and probable paint it.

In fairness if a dodgy Builder is involved he may not have outlined any of this to the neighbour.

Sure it'll be grand, I'll just put a few blocks on the Boundary wall, looks OK to me, save you a few hundred, and hardly any overhang.

Your neighbour may not be aware of the difficulties this has started.

You need to assert your rights, and while you are getting good advice here, do not rely on the Planning Authorities to help you out

We do not have Building Inspectors, and the Co Council will not want to be involved in what is a civil matter.

The Structure does not comply with Building Reg's but the only body who will require a Cert of Compliance is a Bank advancing a Mortgage on the property.
There is no Load Bearing Wall, on the inside and the structure on your side is depending on the strength of foundations, if any, which were put in to support a Boundary wall, not an extention.

miss no stars

martinn123 wrote: »

and the Co Council will not want to be involved in what is a civil matter.

It's the gardai who won't get involved in civil matters - this is actually the Co Council's domain. They do in fact have planning inspectors - I'd be calling them and telling them that my neighbour is building an extension that's encroaching on and overhanging my property without agreement and I might mention that it looks bigger than 40m^2...

whatnext

It might be worth having a look at the acts referred to on this web link.
http://partywalls.ie/what-is-a-party-wall/party-wall-disputes-ireland-2/

Here is a more interesting article.
http://www.engineersirelandcork.ie/downloads/CIOB%20CPD%20Lecture%2012Oct10%20J%20Lane%20B%20Holohan.pdf