Abandoning mortgage?

Ray Palmer

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

There is no way you can stay out of the country for 7+ years.

Will you really avoid going to a loved one's funeral? Their wedding? The last chance to talk to them face to face before they die?

Most people aren't that cold. You might think you can handle it but when the situation arises you won't be able to.

In fairness many people living illegally in another country go through this all the time. A good friend of mine missed his brothers funeral because he lived in the USA illegally

I agree most people would find it very hard to stay out of the country unless they have no family or friends.

Boardieman

How about if everybody just minded their own business and until they are in a position where they can't pay their debts anymore, come back then with an opinion. People in this country love the idea of getting somebody in trouble. Get on with your life and stop worrying what others are doing. I can only imagine how many people on this thread work in the public sector and haven't experienced a hard day financially in their life! If they want to leave the country let them. It's not your problem, it's their debtors.

verysimples

mitosis wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how it is that a foreign (UK eg) court can discharge (bankrupt) a person of debts owed to Irish institutions?

When a bank gets a judgement/repossession order against you. They take your property and will sell it on. Example below

Outstanding on mortgage 200,000
Legal fees, charges, taxes etc etc. 40,000 (pig iron figure)

You owe 240,000

Bank sell the house for 100,000

You now owe the bank 140,000 in unsecured debt.

You have moved to the uk (in this example) for at least six months and can prove it. You can apply for bankruptcy, all unsecured debts will be written off (thanks european law) after a period typically between 9 & 12 months. HOWEVER this process isn't an easy option, your assets will be sold off your bank account will be monitored your credit will be screwed for a long time.Your house, savings car will be gone.

DISCLAMER:::: Talk to a Professional person before even considering this ::::

But you will at least have the option to start off again unlike here in Ireland where Begrudgery O' Gombeen would rather you lived in penury for the rest of your adult life because of some spastic and frighteningly short sighted view of his/her taxes and how they are spent versus what actually happens in the real world.

If you stay in Ireland you will go through a similar process as the UK, its a slightly longer process, probably five times the term available in the UK.

Here is the kicker though. Go bankrupt in England and be discharged, eventually you'll be free and maybe get credit or mortgage again.

In Ireland. Apply to this service and your name will be on a register forever. You don't even have to go bankrupt, you will be blacklisted forever.:eek:

verysimples choice for the average joe

verysimples

Ray Palmer wrote: »

In fairness many people living illegally in another country go through this all the time. A good friend of mine missed his brothers funeral because he lived in the USA illegally

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

There is no way you can stay out of the country for 7+ years.

Will you really avoid going to a loved one's funeral? Their wedding? The last chance to talk to them face to face before they die?

Most people aren't that cold. You might think you can handle it but when the situation arises you won't be able to.

Do you really think that the police will be waiting at the arrival gate for you because you didn't pay a bill?

It doesn't work like that. If you take out a loan. f.t.l.o.g read the terms and conditions. Educate yourself and relax the kacks.

mitosis

verysimples wrote: »

When a bank gets a judgement/repossession order against you. They take your property and will sell it on. Example below

Outstanding on mortgage 200,000
Legal fees, charges, taxes etc etc. 40,000 (pig iron figure)

You owe 240,000

Bank sell the house for 100,000

You now owe the bank 140,000 in unsecured debt.

You have moved to the uk (in this example) for at least six months and can prove it. You can apply for bankruptcy, all unsecured debts will be written off (thanks european law) after a period typically between 9 & 12 months. HOWEVER this process isn't an easy option, your assets will be sold off your bank account will be monitored your credit will be screwed for a long time.Your house, savings car will be gone.

DISCLAMER:::: Talk to a Professional person before even considering this ::::

But you will at least have the option to start off again unlike here in Ireland where Begrudgery O' Gombeen would rather you lived in penury for the rest of your adult life because of some spastic and frighteningly short sighted view of his/her taxes and how they are spent versus what actually happens in the real world.

If you stay in Ireland you will go through a similar process as the UK, its a slightly longer process, probably five times the term available in the UK.

Here is the kicker though. Go bankrupt in England and be discharged, eventually you'll be free and maybe get credit or mortgage again.

In Ireland. Apply to this service and your name will be on a register forever. You don't even have to go bankrupt, you will be blacklisted forever.:eek:

verysimples choice for the average joe

I didn't mean "How do you go about it?", I meant "How can a foreign country be empowered to discharge debts in another country?", Ireland in this case?

verysimples

European law, my friend. What's good for the goose.... Why do you think so many of our former property magnates have been thin on the ground?

No Pants

Boardieman wrote: »

How about if everybody just minded their own business

Worst discussion forum idea ever.

Mr. Loverman

Boardieman wrote: »

How about if everybody just minded their own business

Every time someone defaults on their mortgage the Irish tax payer gets the bill.

This is because we are still bailing out the banks.

So it actually is our business.

Senna

Could banks sell on the debt to debt collectors? If they know the person has left the country, getting 10/20c on the € might be well worth it and i'm sure there is large enough debt collectors to see a profit in this?

3DataModem

Ray Palmer wrote: »

An erratic way to find people. Much easier to wait for Christmas, Easter and summer holidays. Many people come home then

Yep. I've a mate who used to repo cars on Christmas morning outside mass.

theUbiq

verysimples wrote: »

When a bank gets a judgement/repossession order against you. They take your property and will sell it on. Example below

Outstanding on mortgage 200,000
Legal fees, charges, taxes etc etc. 40,000 (pig iron figure)

You owe 240,000

Bank sell the house for 100,000

You now owe the bank 140,000 in unsecured debt.

You have moved to the uk (in this example) for at least six months and can prove it. You can apply for bankruptcy, all unsecured debts will be written off (thanks european law) after a period typically between 9 & 12 months. HOWEVER this process isn't an easy option, your assets will be sold off your bank account will be monitored your credit will be screwed for a long time.Your house, savings car will be gone.

DISCLAMER:::: Talk to a Professional person before even considering this ::::

But you will at least have the option to start off again unlike here in Ireland where Begrudgery O' Gombeen would rather you lived in penury for the rest of your adult life because of some spastic and frighteningly short sighted view of his/her taxes and how they are spent versus what actually happens in the real world.

If you stay in Ireland you will go through a similar process as the UK, its a slightly longer process, probably five times the term available in the UK.

Here is the kicker though. Go bankrupt in England and be discharged, eventually you'll be free and maybe get credit or mortgage again.

In Ireland. Apply to this service and your name will be on a register forever. You don't even have to go bankrupt, you will be blacklisted forever.:eek:

verysimples choice for the average joe

Why borrow more than you can afford to pay back? And why not be a responsible member of society and try to pay it back? surely that's something someone as simple as you can understand. I'd prefer my tax was used to finance the running of the country and not bailing out people who cannot pay their mortgage (the reasons why they cannot pay are irrelevant to me, I didn't buy a house I cannot afford). What about the greedy ****s that are strategically defaulting? Isn't that fraud? Fraud is a criminal offence. When are those greedy ****ers getting arrested?

There are many angles on this and the one you propose doesn't work for me or many people I know who didn't borrow stupid amounts of money to keep up with the joneses.

If you borrow the money you pay it back. If you cannot pay it back and cannot come to an arrangement with the bank you lose your ability to borrow money... that's life, it sucks when you **** up.

Guy:Incognito

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Yes.

How does that work?Someone just stops paying their unsecured loan, ignores the banks calls, then presumably the crowd the bank sells the debt to , for 7 years and all is fogiven ? Seems too goodto be true?

drumswan

Ray Palmer wrote: »

An erratic way to find people. Much easier to wait for Christmas, Easter and summer holidays. Many people come home then

Do you think the banks stand in the arrivals hall at Dublin airport with big nets? Theres nothing to stop people coming and going from Ireland during this process.

Ray Palmer

verysimples wrote: »

Here is the kicker though. Go bankrupt in England and be discharged, eventually you'll be free and maybe get credit or mortgage again.

In Ireland. Apply to this service and your name will be on a register forever. You don't even have to go bankrupt, you will be blacklisted forever.:eek:

Do you really think credit institutions care about your legally disposed assets or the fact you didn't pay your debts? It is in your financial history. You won't get credit and certainly a mortgage is not going to happen. My cousin went bankrupt in the UK 20 years ago and can't get a credit card let alone a mortgage. If it wasn't for his wife he would be renting. He wouldn't have a business either.

verysimples wrote: »

Do you really think that the police will be waiting at the arrival gate for you because you didn't pay a bill?

It doesn't work like that. If you take out a loan. f.t.l.o.g read the terms and conditions. Educate yourself and relax the kacks.

Never said the police would be waiting I said the debit collectors will be watching. As pointed out car repossessions are done on Christmas day as it is easy to do. There is a simple financial incentive for people to do this.

Shedite27

michael thomas wrote: »

What happens to the peole who have left their houses and mortgages and just emmigrated? Can the banks really pursue them or do they just have to suck up the loss??

No the bank will pass the loss onto us (the bank customers) who will have to pay more bank charges to pay for the amount you spent on property

The_Conductor

verysimples wrote: »

European law, my friend. What's good for the goose.... Why do you think so many of our former property magnates have been thin on the ground?

The UK are seriously tightening up their procedures.
They're fed up of non-nationals parachuting in, hanging around for a few months and then declaring themselves bankrupt.
They're getting a bad reputation throughout Europe for facilitating this.
To be honest- the Irish aren't even the worst abusers of the law- there are far more Germans availing of UK bankruptcy law than nationals of any other EU country.

Expect to see a much more strict interpretation of 'centre of economic activity' going forwards- alongside more detailed and forensic examination of finances.

The Irish solution to reform of our Victorian Bankruptcy law- has made no-one happy- its annoyed both creditors and debtors. Arguably- when neither side is happy, you've done a good job- however in this instance- the existence of the much more lenient regime in the UK, makes a mockery of our honest attempts to reform our personal bankruptcy law.

For the record- I don't think its fair that anyone who avails of the new service has a black mark on their record for life. Some of the UK's greatest entrepreneurs are former bankrupts- indeed Richard Branson was jailed for fraud in his early days- and by anyone's standards- he is an icon that we all aspire to.

Get over the notion of nipping across to the UK for a few months and claiming bankruptcy. Get over the notion- of there being no consequences of ignoring letters from your lenders here. Engage with them. Don't promise them anything you can't deliver. You won't get to keep nice houses you can't pay for. Under Irish law- you will have a home with a roof over your head regardless of what happens. It may not be the one you bought with borrowed money- and indeed, it may not be yours ever, but you will be accommodated. This is more than many EU countries provide, despite their UN obligations.

Having a reasonable debate in this thread- is fine.
Attacking one another- is not.
Please be constructive and civil towards one another- if you intend to continue posting here.

Regards,

The_Conductor

verysimples

The_Conductor wrote: »

The UK are seriously tightening up their procedures.
They're fed up of non-nationals parachuting in, hanging around for a few months and then declaring themselves bankrupt.
They're getting a bad reputation throughout Europe for facilitating this.
To be honest- the Irish aren't even the worst abusers of the law- there are far more Germans availing of UK bankruptcy law than nationals of any other EU country.

Expect to see a much more strict interpretation of 'centre of economic activity' going forwards- alongside more detailed and forensic examination of finances.

The Irish solution to reform of our Victorian Bankruptcy law- has made no-one happy- its annoyed both creditors and debtors. Arguably- when neither side is happy, you've done a good job- however in this instance- the existence of the much more lenient regime in the UK, makes a mockery of our honest attempts to reform our personal bankruptcy law.

For the record- I don't think its fair that anyone who avails of the new service has a black mark on their record for life. Some of the UK's greatest entrepreneurs are former bankrupts- indeed Richard Branson was jailed for fraud in his early days- and by anyone's standards- he is an icon that we all aspire to.

Get over the notion of nipping across to the UK for a few months and claiming bankruptcy. Get over the notion- of there being no consequences of ignoring letters from your lenders here. Engage with them. Don't promise them anything you can't deliver. You won't get to keep nice houses you can't pay for. Under Irish law- you will have a home with a roof over your head regardless of what happens. It may not be the one you bought with borrowed money- and indeed, it may not be yours ever, but you will be accommodated. This is more than many EU countries provide, despite their UN obligations.

Having a reasonable debate in this thread- is fine.
Attacking one another- is not.
Please be constructive and civil towards one another- if you intend to continue posting here.

Regards,

The_Conductor

You are absolutely right, I would suggest to anybody thinking of going bankrupt anywhere to use it as a very last option. I hope I haven't presented it as an easy option in any way.

Any posts I've made (above) are directed towards people who have absolutely no other option, In my opinion the Irish Insolvency Service option is deeply unfair and biased towards the banks. I'm just trying to point out to people that you can restart your life but to reiterate its not an easy option. Anyone thinking they can disappear for a year or so and everything will be perfect would be in for a rude awakening.

I think I've said it a couple of times, but it should be repeated: Seek professional advice, they will be best able to assess your situation and advise you from there. There are no easy options.

I'll leave it there.