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pay childminder or not in this case?

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  • 08-08-2013 8:31pm
    #1
    07734
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭


    hi everyone

    we have just started (in the last fortnight) to use a childminder in our house to mind our 3 kids, for three days a week.

    this morning she told my wife that she will be unavailable tomorrow morning, till lunchtime, which i have no problem with, these things happen sometimes.

    would it be normal to pay her for a full day in this case? i want to be fair, but at the same time i was wondering what would be the norm in this type of event.

    thanks


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    #2
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    07734 wrote: »
    hi everyone

    we have just started (in the last fortnight) to use a childminder in our house to mind our 3 kids, for three days a week.

    this morning she told my wife that she will be unavailable tomorrow morning, till lunchtime, which i have no problem with, these things happen sometimes.

    would it be normal to pay her for a full day in this case? i want to be fair, but at the same time i was wondering what would be the norm in this type of event.

    thanks

    Is that half of her day gone? Pay her half a day if so...assume it is all cash in hand so it is fair enough.


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    #3
    squrm
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭squrm


    If you have to take a few hours off work to go to the dentist/ a funeral etc do you still get paid?

    I'm guessing yes, so do the same. Its early in the relationship with this lady, don't sour it by doing something so tight-fisted.


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    #4
    Lisha
    Registered Users Posts: 8,693 ✭✭✭Lisha


    I go by the rule if she ask for time off I don't pay .
    If I don't send kids for what ever reason I do pay. That's got full days off

    If she works partial day I do pay for full day


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    #5
    07734
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭07734


    thanks for the advice. yes, it is half her day gone, slightly more in fact. she is paid on the books, not cash.

    btw, i'm self employed, so if i take time off, then no, i don't get paid! i take the point about treating her well as it's the start, but it's not a precedent i would like to establish.


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    #6
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 14,048 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    I think most people work on the understanding that if the childminder is not available to you then they don't get paid.

    If the childminder IS available and you decide not to use her, then they do get paid.

    It's something that you need to iron out now and make sure it is in the contract for future.


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    #7
    Moonbeam
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    She is working in your home so is your employee so I would be inclined to pay her or let her take her 1/2 day from her holidays. Is it not in your contract?


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    #8
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    As an employeee she is entitled to some holiday time and pay. But if this is a cash in hand kind of deal then no - you don't need to pay her - she's not available and therefore won't have earned the cash.


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    #9
    December2012
    Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    I think you should set up a written contract setting out terms and to provide for what is to happen in future in this situation.

    Also iron out what happens when the child is sick, when you take holidays , etc


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    #10
    elleelle19
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭elleelle19


    Does she get paid hourly or a set wage?

    I get paid hourly, and if I am not there I don't get paid, unless I take it as annual leave.


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    #11
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    squrm wrote: »
    If you have to take a few hours off work to go to the dentist/ a funeral etc do you still get paid?

    I'm guessing yes, so do the same. Its early in the relationship with this lady, don't sour it by doing something so tight-fisted.

    Employers do not have to pay for such time off unless its holiday time. I know of no employer who has ever paid to allow people go to a funeral. I would love to know where you work as I want a job there.

    The OP earns money by working, pays tax on that money, then pays the child minder and as this is not under the table pays tax again on that money. The child minder within a very short time of starting is getting half a day off, no OP I would no pay her.


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    #12
    marizpan
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭marizpan


    She is entitled to take holiday pay/leave only after 3 months of employment. Do not pay her the full day. You will be making things hard for yourself again by setting these standards


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    #13
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    07734 wrote: »
    hi everyone

    we have just started (in the last fortnight) to use a childminder in our house to mind our 3 kids, for three days a week.

    this morning she told my wife that she will be unavailable tomorrow morning, till lunchtime, which i have no problem with, these things happen sometimes.

    would it be normal to pay her for a full day in this case? i want to be fair, but at the same time i was wondering what would be the norm in this type of event.

    thanks
    I would have a serious problem with that. She's only started the job and is already telling you (not asking, which is what an employee should do) at very short notice, that she will be unavailable. In any job I've ever had, unless I had very good reason to let my employer down at short notice, I'd have been told in no uncertain terms to shape up or ship out.

    Whatever about letting her have the time off, I honestly can't believe you are even considering paying her for it. She hasn't worked for you long enough to have holiday time and if she is going to be rewarded this early for being unreliable, she is going to walk all over you in the future. Maybe she has a valid reason for the short notice but I would seriously sit her down op and tell her that in future you will need more than 24 hours notice if she wants time off. She is a proper employee and needs to treat her job like a job, not a hobby she gets paid for when it suits her.


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    #14
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    infosys wrote: »
    I know of no employer who has ever paid to allow people go to a funeral. I would love to know where you work as I want a job there.

    Plenty of employers give paid bereavment leave. Most of the multinationals and I think it's 5 days in the public service.


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    #15
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 14,048 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    pwurple wrote: »
    Plenty of employers give paid bereavment leave. Most of the multinationals and I think it's 5 days in the public service.

    It's definitely not 5 days! I used to work in a private hospital but we worked to HSE grades and practices. 3 days (I think) would be given for an immediate family member. 1 day for aunt, uncle, niece etc. No entitlement for friend, neighbour etc. If you took time off for that it was out of your annual leave, or unpaid.

    Edit: I do agree though that she hasn't been working with you long enough for you to have built up a trust and understanding with her. If she had been working with you for 6 months or more and had been nothing but reliable, then maybe, depending on the reason for needing time off you might consider, as a gesture of goodwill to pay her because you value her so much. She hasn't been working for you for 2 weeks though.. so no, you shouldn't pay her.


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    #16
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Big Bag of Chips wrote: »
    It's definitely not 5 days! I used to work in a private hospital but we worked to HSE grades and practices.

    Check out the HR policy here:
    http://hr.per.gov.ie/special-leave/

    (ii) Special leave at time of bereavement: Up to five days paid leave in the case of a spouse (including a cohabiting partner), child (including adopted children and children being cared for on the basis of ‘in loco parentis’) or any person in a relationship of domestic dependency, including same sex partners; up to three days paid leave in the case of other immediate relatives [for the purposes of bereavement leave "immediate relative” means father, step-father, mother, step-mother, brother, step-brother, half-brother, brother-in-law, sister, step-sister, half-sister, sister-in-law, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, grandfather, grandmother or grandchild of an officer]; up to one working day in the case of an uncle, aunt, niece or nephew. (Circular 22 of 2009 Bereavement Leave in the Civil Service)


    Anyway, sorry, that is off topic.

    Bottom line, yiu need to make up a contract and discuss it with her.


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    #17
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    pwurple wrote: »
    Plenty of employers give paid bereavment leave. Most of the multinationals and I think it's 5 days in the public service.

    Yes bereavement leave for close family, not leave to go to a funeral. I would assume if the childminder had lost a very close family member they would have told the employer.


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    #18
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 14,048 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    ... And would be gone for longer than a half day!


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    #19
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Lisha wrote: »
    I go by the rule if she ask for time off I don't pay .
    If I don't send kids for what ever reason I do pay. That's got full days off

    If she works partial day I do pay for full day

    This is what I do. I didn't send my child in last Friday, but paid for a full week, including the bank holiday, because she was available to mind the child. When she took a week's holidays recently I didn't pay. This was agreed before we started with her so there was no confusion.

    I think you need something agreed in writing, lest this kind of thing become a regular occurrence.


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