Batman v Superman *spoilers from post 2434*

johnny_ultimate

shazzerman wrote: »

Yes, I absolutely hate all of Snyder's films, with the exception of Dawn of the Dead (which was only okay - but a totally unnecessary film that did nothing of interest with Romero's template).

DoD is the closest thing he's made to a tolerable film, but tellingly also the least distinctive: a few shots aside, it could have been directed by anyone. It's a 'reserved', conservative debut. From 300 onwards Snyder seemed to be granted much more freedom to do what he wanted, and IMO has produced a steady stream of **** ever since.

MisterAnarchy

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

From 300 onwards Snyder seemed to be granted much more freedom to do what he wanted, and IMO has produced a steady stream of **** ever since.

Did you not like Watchmen ?

Theboinkmaster

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Did you not like Watchmen ?

I think watchmen is his best film, loved it

Nervous Wreck

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Did you not like Watchmen ?

Watchmen was a fantastic graphic novel. The movie copies it practically panel for panel. 95% of what you see on screen is thanks to Alan Moore/Dave Gibbons. There is no originality, no contribution from Snyder (save for changing the ending) and, for that reason, I rate it as low as his other movies. Such a pity, really.

J. Marston

Oh I cannot wait for this.

johnny_ultimate

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Watchmen was a fantastic graphic novel. The movie copies it practically panel for panel. 95% of what you see on screen is thanks to Alan Moore/Dave Gibbons. There is no originality, no contribution from Snyder (save for changing the ending) and, for that reason, I rate it as low as his other movies. Such a pity, really.

Whatever is good about Watchmen - bar the opening credits - was there in the graphic novel, that I agree. But I think the issue is there was too much contribution from Snyder. His hyper-stylisation simply fails to gel with the narrative, themes, tone and characters. At best, he indulges in too much empty spectacle. At worst, the only reasonable response is to laugh at the film (there are several farcically dreadful sequences in there).

Watchmen is a great graphic novel. Under Zack Snyder's direction it is far from a great film, even if some of the original's good ideas can't help but seep through in what is at times a fairly slavish adaptation that nonetheless feels like a wild simplification the original (which, to be fair, is basically impossible to translate to the screen given how fundamentally tied it is to the form of comic books. The film does, to give it some credit, at least manage to get the 'core' narrative across, even if the more meandering aspect of the comic is what makes it so rich).

Chris_Heilong

I think Snyder is one of the best directors ever, everything he has done has been gold(except for sucker punch, that was ****) His pace with story telling without needless filler and his visual direction is excellent.

Outkast_IRE

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I think Snyder is one of the best directors ever, everything he has done has been gold(except for sucker punch, that was ****) His pace with story telling without needless filler and his visual direction is excellent.

Needless filler ? Man of Steel was about 30% needless filler with overlong fight scenes just to show off some pretty visuals.

Jon Stark

Has anyone actually timed the final action sequence in comparison to The Avengers? I wouldn't say there's too much in it.

Also, you're talking about two of the most powerful beings in the world with equal power, so it was hardly going to be over in a matter of minutes.

I understand people having a problem with the execution of the sequence but I can't really understand the complaints about it being "too long".

Nervous Wreck

Jon Stark wrote: »

Has anyone actually timed the final action sequence in comparison to The Avengers? I wouldn't say there's too much in it.

Also, you're talking about two of the most powerful beings in the world with equal power, so it was hardly going to be over in a matter of minutes.

I understand people having a problem with the execution of the sequence but I can't really understand the complaints about it being "too long".

The Avengers final battle had a team of 6 heroes battling a huge army of aliens, with numerous interludes of the heroes rescuing a bunch of people in immediate danger. It was long because there were six different people doing six different things and helping endangered citizens. The final battle in Man of Steel is two dudes wailing on each other non-stop and punching each other through buildings for no real reason.

Jon Stark

It was poor from Snyder not to show one of the most heroic of superheroes not being, well, heroic, in the final battle.

But I would argue that Clark had his hands full with a being who was, as he said himself, hell bent on destroying all human life. The Chitauri
, while being strong in numbers, were no real threat. They were disposable and dispatched with relative ease.

Zod was not dispatched with relative ease and needed Clark's full attention. Indeed, defeating him came with a real cost: Clark not only having to take the life of another person, but the life of his last connection to his homeworld.

Also in fairness to Snyder even if he didn't have Clark saving people in the final battle, he very much established the kind of person Clark was early on in the film by saving the bus and the rigger.

Mickeroo

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

The Avengers final battle had a team of 6 heroes battling a huge army of aliens, with numerous interludes of the heroes rescuing a bunch of people in immediate danger. It was long because there were six different people doing six different things and helping endangered citizens. The final battle in Man of Steel is two dudes wailing on each other non-stop and punching each other through buildings for no real reason.

The Avengers finale was also full of memorable character moments that were the highlight of the film, the MoS finale was probably the worst part of the film.

IncognitoMan

Have a serious question to people who hate man of steel and zack snyder's work.

Why are you spending so much time in a thread that is about both?

I mean isn't it easier to just stay away from stuff you don't like or do you actually enjoy complaining

Nervous Wreck

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Have a serious question to people who hate man of steel and zack snyder's work.

Why are you spending so much time in a thread that is about both?

I mean isn't it easier to just stay away from stuff you don't like or do you actually enjoy complaining

Ugh, this old crap. No offence to you personally but this question really doesn't hold up, for many reasons.

This thread, though it's directly about a film that's written and directed by Zach Snyder, isn't primarily about him. Firstly, it's about Batman and Superman, two characters who have nothing to do with Snyder. Fans of these characters will watch films about them regardless of who's directing. The characters and their legacies are bigger than Snyder and will last a hell of a lot longer than him. Secondly, this is about a film that's second in a slate of films set in a shared universe. This, again, is bigger than Snyder. This film, if it completely flopped, could effectively end the shared universe before it gets going. Many of us have been waiting decades to see Batman and Superman share the big screen. Beyond that, we've been waiting to see other DC characters even make it to the big screen. So of course we're interested. Of course we're critical. Snyder is an awful director who has been handed the keys to a car that's too big for him to drive. In one movie, he already destroyed many aspects of one of the most beloved characters in comic book history. Now he's putting Batman on screen too. Snyder is nothing. He's an ant. He'll be gone soon and Bats and Supes will continue on. The thread is abou the characters and the man who may end up souring at least one of them for the general public, without the interest of whom, we won't get more (potentially great) films in the future.

That's why we're posting in the thread.

Mickeroo

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Have a serious question to people who hate man of steel and zack snyder's work.

Why are you spending so much time in a thread that is about both?

I mean isn't it easier to just stay away from stuff you don't like or do you actually enjoy complaining

I like pretty much all his work until Sucker Punch which was truly awful and then Man of Steel had its moments but overall it was crap and failed to achieve anything it attempted to do (in my opinion). I was obsessed with Superman as a child and he's still one of my favourite characters of all time, Batman has also been one of my favourites through out most of my life. I'm always going to have interest in anything that involves either character regardless of whether I hold out much hope of it being any good.

johnny_ultimate

To weigh in on a film/trailer a lot of people are talking about? To move a discussion away from a dull stream of 'trailer looks great / ****' posts? To have a discussion about the merits / lack thereof of a high profile director's work instead of just speculating about a film that's still a year away?

I spend lots of time watching and talking about films I love. A bit of vitriol is good for the heart every now and then

Jon Stark

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I spend lots of time watching and talking about films I love. A bit of vitriol is good for the heart every now and then

We all like a good rant and rave.

IncognitoMan

But surely ye must know that it makes very boring reading when all this was covered in the man of steel thread? I don't see the point in running over the same conversation over and over

Agent Coulson

IncognitoMan wrote: »

But surely ye must know that it makes very boring reading when all this was covered in the man of steel thread? I don't see the point in running over the same conversation over and over

That's what happens when you release a trailer for a highly anticipated film 11 months before it's hit's the cinema screens.

tok9

More I hear and see of this movie the more it looks terrible to me.

Tell me, do you bleed?

Is that really something Batman would say? As it just seems completely out of character to me.

Sirsok

tok9 wrote: »

Is that really something Batman would say? As it just seems completely out of character to me.

I got goosebumps listening to this part?

Anyone notice the riddlers question mark?

techdiver

tok9 wrote: »

Is that really something Batman would say? As it just seems completely out of character to me.

Eh..

"You don't get it, son. This isn't a mudhole... It's an operating table. And I'm the surgeon."

"I want you to remember, Clark…in all the years to come…in your most private moments…I want you to remember…my hand…at your throat…I want…you to remember…the one man who beat you."

johnny_ultimate

Given Snyder's established fondness for Frank Miller's work, you never know what'll be in the final product

tok9

techdiver wrote: »

Eh..

I'm only going by what I know myself of Batman. That being the movies, the animated series and the Arkham games.

Just doesn't seem like something he'd say to me. Then again this probably isn't really targeted at me either as even the idea of Batman and Superman fighting seems silly to me.

techdiver

tok9 wrote: »

I'm only going by what I know myself of Batman. That being the movies, the animated series and the Arkham games.

Just doesn't seem like something he'd say to me. Then again this probably isn't really targeted at me either as even the idea of Batman and Superman fighting seems silly to me.

There have been many incarnations of the characters though the years. Batman and Superman have fought numerous times.

This incarnation would appear to be heavily influenced by Frank Miller. Check out "The Dark Knight Returns". There is an animated 2 part movie. It is fantastic.

The time lines will be different in this movie but the dynamic will be similar. I assume they will eventually see each other as allies towards the end of this movie after their initial confrontation.

Mickeroo

tok9 wrote: »

I'm only going by what I know myself of Batman. That being the movies, the animated series and the Arkham games.

Just doesn't seem like something he'd say to me. Then again this probably isn't really targeted at me either as even the idea of Batman and Superman fighting seems silly to me.

Pretty sure they came to blows in the animated series when they first met too, seem to remember it being a two or three part storyline with Luthor up to something in Gotham and Batman taking issue with Supes showing up in his city.

Jon Stark

Miller's Batman is a bit of a dick and, well, crazy. Hopefully Snyder has toned down those aspects ever so slightly as I don't think they'll translate well to film.

Mr Freeze

Mickeroo wrote: »

Pretty sure they came to blows in the animated series when they first met too, seem to remember it being a two or three part storyline with Luthor up to something in Gotham and Batman taking issue with Supes showing up in his city.

Oh, someone mentioned the animated series.......

Ya, Batman & Superman faced off in a 3 parter called Worlds Finest, I think it was part of the 2nd season of Superman TAS.

It was class, Batman ends up in Metropolis and Superman won't allow vigilantes like him to operate, hence the initial scrap and battle of wits that follows and the inevitable team up to take down Luthor and the Joker.

I'm not sure The Dark Knight Returns type face off they are going for will work as one of their first encounters, in the comics there was decades of history between the two and a lot of the dialogue made much more sense with that in mind, especially how dark and hostile Batman was towards him.

My expectations are low for BvS anyways.....so I might end up liking it.

Nothing is going to top Mask of the Phantasm anyways :pac:

a/tel

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2429156-deandre-jordan-rolls-out-new-batmobile

Batmobile reveal....

Mr Freeze

a/tel wrote: »

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2429156-deandre-jordan-rolls-out-new-batmobile

Batmobile reveal....

How tall is that guy if he could barely fit in the Batmobile?

googled eyes

https://i.imgflip.com/kg4jm.gif

Posted that gif above as a link rather than an

Jon Stark

It's a beast of a suit, but I'll be curious to see how the practicality of it works on screen. It doesn't exactly look like the garb of a martial arts expert to show what he can do!

Mickeroo

Jon Stark wrote: »

It's a beast of a suit, but I'll be curious to see how the practicality of it works on screen. It doesn't exactly look like the garb of a martial arts expert to show what he can do!

I don't think that's what they're going for here.

Mr Freeze

Mickeroo wrote: »

I don't think that's what they're going for here.

Brute force Batman I'm thinking.

Mickeroo

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Brute force Batman I'm thinking.

Yeah if they're going with Dark Knight Returns leanings I'd imagine so, though I think the main concern will be about how cool he looks in slo-mo rather than how practical his suit is is what I'm getting at

Oafley Jones

googled eyes wrote: »

https://i.imgflip.com/kg4jm.gif

Posted that gif above as a link rather than an

Batman sure likes to design the **** of his wardrobe. Really liked that the suit was stuck in a wooden dresser in Begins.

Also, Bats has a serious set of moobs of him.

TheDoc

That gif.....I'm getting seriously hyped over here

I still can't get my head around the premise of this movie...I mean does Batman now have a suit made of kryptonite? Why call it Versus?
I have yet to watch Man of Steel but from looking at the wiki page it's a direct sequel.

Tefral

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I still can't get my head around the premise of this movie...I mean does Batman now have a suit made of kryptonite? Why call it Versus?
I have yet to watch Man of Steel but from looking at the wiki page it's a direct sequel.

Have you seen "The Dark Knight Returns" by Frank Miller? If not watch it. It comes in 2 parts.

Thargor

cronin_j wrote: »

Have you seen "The Dark Knight Returns" by Frank Miller? If not watch it. It comes in 2 parts.

will that completely ruin this film for me if I watch it? Think I read the graphic novel years ago but don't remember it.

Tefral

Thargor wrote: »

will that completely ruin this film for me if I watch it? Think I read the graphic novel years ago but don't remember it.

No id say they are only going to pull bits from it. Same as the Last trilogy, you can see it did influence some ways that batman was shown.

Batman was able to defeat superman as he was greatly weakened by an atomic blast and the fact Green Arrow shot him with a Kryptonite arrow.

Thing most people don't realise is that batman has a superior strategic mind, he is a master of combat also from the league of shadows. Superman is neither of these. Batman was also in his fifties and a massive strong build. Looks like affleck has developed the muscle for the role in that regard but not the age profile.

Mr Freeze

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I still can't get my head around the premise of this movie...I mean does Batman now have a suit made of kryptonite? Why call it Versus?

There isn't even kryptonite in Man of Steel.

Batman in most encounters in the comics and animated series does use it to weaken him in fights.

So for their scraps in BvS, he will have to be weakened in some way, by introducing kryptonite or something else.

SuprSi

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I still can't get my head around the premise of this movie...I mean does Batman now have a suit made of kryptonite? Why call it Versus?
I have yet to watch Man of Steel but from looking at the wiki page it's a direct sequel.

I'm the exact same. Fair enough Batman may be smarter or more tactically astute than Superman, but the Batman in any of the movies we've seen to date couldn't fight Superman. Even with a suit he'd surely struggle.

Everyone saw what Superman did in the last movie, with the oil rig, the train, the building destruction etc. - how could Batman compete with that sort of strength and speed?

If the idea is that Superman is weakened by something, like cornin_j mentions with an atomic bomb blast and kryptonite, great, it's a one-off victory unless Batman kills him. If not, when Superman regains his strength he just comes back and kicks his ass.

I have never read the comics so my reference comes solely from the big screen (I'm sure lots of people are like this) but they're either going to have to significantly weaken Superman or strengthen Batman for this to be credible.

techdiver

SuprSi wrote: »

I'm the exact same. Fair enough Batman may be smarter or more tactically astute than Superman, but the Batman in any of the movies we've seen to date couldn't fight Superman. Even with a suit he'd surely struggle.

Everyone saw what Superman did in the last movie, with the oil rig, the train, the building destruction etc. - how could Batman compete with that sort of strength and speed?

If the idea is that Superman is weakened by something, like cornin_j mentions with an atomic bomb blast and kryptonite, great, it's a one-off victory unless Batman kills him. If not, when Superman regains his strength he just comes back and kicks his ass.

I have never read the comics so my reference comes solely from the big screen (I'm sure lots of people are like this) but they're either going to have to significantly weaken Superman or strengthen Batman for this to be credible.

What I think will happen in this movie, is that there will be one fight between the two and that once that fight ends, both will realise that they are on the same side broadly speaking and then the origins of the justice league will be formed.

Chip Whitley

Kryptonite Ring FTW

Nervous Wreck

cronin_j wrote: »

he is a master of combat also from the league of shadows.

This is only in the Nolanverse.

Professey Chin

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

This is only in the Nolanverse.

But was trained as a master detective by a Henri Ducard IIRC.

The lines be blurred :pac:

maximoose

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

This is only in the Nolanverse.

League of Shadows = League of Assassins, no?

Trained by David Cain, master assassin.

Nervous Wreck

Professey Chin wrote: »

But was trained as a master detective by a Henri Ducard IIRC.

The lines be blurred :pac:

True! But he was never a member of the League of Assassins!

Mickeroo

In the animated series and comics Batman is always doing stuff that's borderline superhuman with no explanation if the plot requires it, for him to work in the same universe as Supes and co it's just the way it has to be to work.