Swimming Time Discrepancy, 400m TT v 4 x 100m off x.xx

zico10

Last week I swam a timed 400m where I clocked 7.26. Then earlier today during a session I had to swim 4 x 100m off 1.45. This is very tough for me and for the last two I didn't make the times. After the third set I pushed off regardless though and when I finished the fourth and final 100m I stopped my watch at 7.06, 20 seconds quicker than the time I'd done for 400m straight.
I got around 9 seconds rest during the 4 x 100s, so this would imply that the difference in my actual swimming time was almost half a minute.
Should I be capable of swimming 400m straight in 7.06 or less? I definitely pushed harder during the set of 100s, but I was at my limits, and I really don't think I could do a single 400m at this intensity, yet I still swam a combined 400m at this pace.
This shouldn't really make sense, or is there something I'm missing?

I'm using 7.26 as my current 400m PB to base sets off, should I update this to 7.06 now?

Kurt Godel

The wall rest is obviously helping you swim faster- is this a breathing issue? How is your pacing during the straight 400m, are you going out too quick? Maybe try doing a straight 400 at 1:50 pace and see if you are faster when more controlled.

*Edit- and yes, if you can swim a set of 4*100 off 1:45 you should be capable of swimming 400m straight faster than 7:06.

zico10

Kurt Godel wrote: »

The wall rest is obviously helping you swim faster- is this a breathing issue? How is your pacing during the straight 400m, are you going out too quick? Maybe try doing a straight 400 at 1:50 pace and see if you are faster when more controlled..

I don't think my breathing is an issue as such, I'm breathing very heavily by the end of these hard efforts, but I'm not out of breath. It's the same when running or cycling at top speed. Pacing follows the same pattern as that of the 4*100 I describe below, in that I slow down the further I swim. This is not deliberate, but for both my technique deteriorates.
I didn't set off at full throttle for the 400m straight. There's not many times in this 10 week swimming plan I've to swim 100s off 1.45 for, and perhaps on another day they'd come easier.
It's a frustrating thing I find about swim training, that you begin another 100 in the set even though you might be still absolutely f*cked from the last effort. I don't do this for cycling or running, but it seems to be how most swim plans are structured and I haven't hit upon any better strategy, so I just follow the advice the experts.
I'll try another straight 400 soon enough, because the times don't make sense.

Kurt Godel wrote: »

*Edit- and yes, if you can swim a set of 4*100 off 1:45 you should be capable of swimming 400m straight faster than 7:06.

Perhaps on another day I could swim 4*100 off 1.45, but today I couldn't. 1.39, 1.42, my goggles were fogged up when I finished the third set, got a few seconds rest before I could make out the time, three seconds too late pushing off the wall, probably came in on 1.45, then 1.48 for the last effort.

But yes, what you say would be logical thing to assume and I take your point.

Kurt Godel

If your technique goes to pot, then that's your limiter. Your aim should be to hold technique as long as possible over the 400 straight, since you know you're going to slow immediately your form/technique goes. In the absence of someone showing you when/how your form drops, maybe try to control that form for longer by starting off slower.

Break down your straight 400 into sections- your first 100 should seem too slow, next should feel the pinch, next is starting to hurt (but you still maintain form), and give it what you got on the last. Holding form through steady pacing is the key though- 1:45,1:45,1:47,1:48 is better than 1:35,1:42, 1:5x,1:5x. That's advice I got coming from a similar situation (scratching my head as to why I could do 4*100 as fast as a 400TT) and it worked for me, but I had a coach who pointed out when my form dropped and how to correct it.

shotgunmcos

Agree on technique being limiter. All out 400 you build lactic for last 150 or so and form can shorten up. Hard to do back 200 faster than first without good form and disciplined pacing. The 4*100 off 1*45 suggests you have a sub 7 minute 400tt there. Is it possible you felt better doing 100s and gave it more guns? Any nervous energy before 400 could have tightened you up?. Even 2 inches per stroke over 400 could explain a 20 sec gap

zico10

@Kurt Godel thanks for the tips. I see from the 400m TT thread that your latest time is down to 6.04, so your approach is obviously working.

Incidentally I'll be back in Dublin soon enough, and hope coached lessons will sort things out.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Agree on technique being limiter. All out 400 you build lactic for last 150 or so and form can shorten up. Hard to do back 200 faster than first without good form and disciplined pacing. The 4*100 off 1*45 suggests you have a sub 7 minute 400tt there. Is it possible you felt better doing 100s and gave it more guns? Any nervous energy before 400 could have tightened you up?. Even 2 inches per stroke over 400 could explain a 20 sec gap

I forget how I felt exactly, probably tired, hot and hungry. But I would have given the 100s more guns, simply because I knew I had to. What you say about technique certainly makes sense. I'm aware of what's happening my stroke, but I'm also aware I need to hurry up and get to the wall. I don't know if it's self fulfilling, but starting off any fast paced stuff, I know exactly what is going to happen my stroke and sure enough as the sets go on my stroke falls apart.

I haven't swam consistently over the last three years, and that doesn't help. But I still think to swim 400m under 7 minutes, lactic acid and all, should come a lot easier to me.