Knocknacarra Community Centre

Molloy10

Has it already opened? Also, does anyone know if the basketball court down there is free to play on or would you have to pre-book for a fee? Would be a damn shame if you have to

biko

http://www.connachttribune.ie/breaking-news/23925-hopes-knocknacarra-community-centre-can-put-city-on-national-stage
Members of the public are invited to attend an open day with a tour of the facility -from 2 to 7pm Thursday 22nd August

Das Kitty

biko wrote: »

http://www.connachttribune.ie/breaking-news/23925-hopes-knocknacarra-community-centre-can-put-city-on-national-stage
Members of the public are invited to attend an open day with a tour of the facility -from 2 to 7pm Thursday 22nd August

I got a flyer in the door yesterday about it. Looking forward to checking it out inside. Eyballing it through the windows just isn't the same.

karen89

I have been in it and it has to be the biggest waste of money ever spent in Galway, it is not fit for purpose and not going to be used by the people of Knocknacarra for whom it was built!

biko

We'll see Thursday 22nd I suppose.

jkforde

karen89 wrote: »

....it is not fit for purpose and not going to be used by the people of Knocknacarra for whom it was built!

what was the community looking for and why is what has been built not fit for this purpose? not stirring here, just interested in your opinion. it looks like a fine building, what've you seen inside that convinces you that it is a waste of money and space?

Das Kitty

I'm interested to see how it's going to be managed and maintained. It has squash and raquetball courts from what I can see from the outside and a dance studio which is a great asset IMO.

karen89

I was involved in the organising of the Knocknacarr gathering and we wanted to use the community centre, all was progressing along, months of work, and then the bombshell - "you cannot walk on the floor" its seemingly a very "high tech" floor and you cannot walk on it in shoes. The centre seems big from the outside but in fact the hall is quite small.

Mrs OBumble

So it's not fit for the purpose of holding large public events. But is fit for the purpose of specific sports and activities. I wonder which is most likely to happen - and if it had been built as a large general purpose hall without the specialist facilities wanted by the various sports etc, would they have had a place in it?

I guess it all comes down to your perception about what a "community centre" should be.

karen89

IMO "fit for purpose" with regard to the community centre, would mean it was available to/useable by the majority of the community. This is not, as people will see today if they go for a look.

jkforde

biko wrote: »

http://www.connachttribune.ie/breaking-news/23925-hopes-knocknacarra-community-centre-can-put-city-on-national-stage
Members of the public are invited to attend an open day with a tour of the facility -from 2 to 7pm Thursday 22nd August

anyone go in for a gander? pics?

Das Kitty

I did, I thought it was great.

The sports hall is very nice indeed, as is the multi-purpose room.

I'm looking forward to seeing what sorts of classes etc will be put on in it.

karen89

The community must be afforded input into the long term management of the complex
Affordability to the local community groups and organisations is essential
Extra works will have to take place for it to be usable by all
Fibre glass wall at seating area is required for indoor football event use
Suitable floor covering will be required on main area for large social and community gatherings
Outdoor astro turf amenities will be required to make the entity commercially viable in the long term
look forward to a public meeting being called where the real future of the centre can be discussed with the community

biko

Went to see it yesterday, lovely place. The great hall has a sports floor, hence no outdoor shoes.
It will open proper on 4 Sept and the woman I spoke to said to keep an eye on the local papers etc.
What they do is let the rooms to various activity leaders. These activity leaders will then advertise for participants in papers/shop notice boards etc.

karen89

yeh, so the sports hall (ie the only hall) cannot be used for gatherings etc sports only!! and every other room is too small to use for a large number of people! the rooms will be let out to individuals for various activities - and the cost does not include the cost of insurance - and the cost of this insurance is huge as the council tells the individual how much cover is needed - millions!

snubbleste

Two false fire alarms on opening day.
Methinks it bodes well for the future

Robbo

Anyone care to fill in the gaps in my memory as to Pat Joyce's role in this?

From what I recall, the original planning application for his Knocknacarra supermarket was conditional upon a community centre being facilitated. Pat tried to hold out as long as possible here, eventually ceding some space above the supermarket as a "solution".

At some point, a six figure amount of cash was extracted from him which either means he's far more charitable and benevolent than I previously thought or he had no other option.

There was a lengthy judicial review (here and here) in relation to the supermarket, An Bord Pleanála involved, 300 planning representations, an alleged land grab, talk of appeals to the Supreme Court, rows over legal costs and all kinds of fun and games.

biko

karen89, perhaps the schools around the area would allow their sports hall to be used? Did you check?
I can understand why someone who just built a brand new sports hall would be reluctant to let many people with outdoor shoes walk on it.

I know Westside Community Hall allow Muslim Friday prayers but at least they take their shoes off.

Iwannahurl

snubbleste wrote: »

Two false fire alarms on opening day.
Methinks it bodes well for the future

No real fire alarms, in other words?

Robbo wrote: »

Anyone care to fill in the gaps in my memory as to Pat Joyce's role in this?

From what I recall, the original planning application for his Knocknacarra supermarket was conditional upon a community centre being facilitated. Pat tried to hold out as long as possible here, eventually ceding some space above the supermarket as a "solution".

At some point, a six figure amount of cash was extracted from him which either means he's far more charitable and benevolent than I previously thought or he had no other option.

There was a lengthy judicial review (here and here) in relation to the supermarket, An Bord Pleanála involved, 300 planning representations, an alleged land grab, talk of appeals to the Supreme Court, rows over legal costs and all kinds of fun and games.

What I find most interesting about those High Court records is the references to traffic and the Western Distributor Road, but I won't go there here.

It might take a book by Lorna Siggins to unravel the Joycean mystery. The unfacts, did we possess them, are too imprecisely few to warrant our certitude.

According to the City Council's FAQ handout, made available at the open day, "construction cost was circa €3.4 million funded by a 20-year loan and a local contribution of €300,000." Make of that what you will. Loan repayments will be €180,000. Operational costs are expected to be in the region of €300-350k annually.

The Council is running the centre for the time being. Because of the recruitment embargo new staff could not be hired, so some existing Council staff were re-deployed. The centre will be run by a "specialist operator" in future, and it remains to be seen what this will mean in terms of usage fees and public subsidies.

karen89 wrote: »

The community must be afforded input into the long term management of the complex
Affordability to the local community groups and organisations is essential
Extra works will have to take place for it to be usable by all
Fibre glass wall at seating area is required for indoor football event use
Suitable floor covering will be required on main area for large social and community gatherings
Outdoor astro turf amenities will be required to make the entity commercially viable in the long term
look forward to a public meeting being called where the real future of the centre can be discussed with the community

biko wrote: »

karen89, perhaps the schools around the area would allow their sports hall to be used? Did you check?

I can understand why someone who just built a brand new sports hall would be reluctant to let many people with outdoor shoes walk on it.

Having attended the open day, I'm still uncertain as to how the new community centre will ultimately be used and operated. The facilities include a "sports hall" featuring a "Durasport P seamless polyurethane surface" with "maximum capacity for events c. 800 people".

There is a "multi-purpose room" with a maple suspended floor, maximum capacity c. 150 people. Three meeting rooms are available for hourly hire: "green room" (up to 8 people), viewing deck (30-40 people), and "coffee dock" (30-35 people).

The Dura-Sport surface is clearly unsuitable for general use, yet the FAQ refers to "events" for up to 800 people (400-a-side indoor soccer, anyone?) and they have also provided a "green room" and adjacent dressing room (not sports-related) which suggests events such as shows, plays, concerts or such-like. It is reported that some sort of special floor covering is being sought which will allow non-sports event to be held without damaging the Dura-Sport surface.

Mrs OBumble

karen89 wrote: »

yeh, so the sports hall (ie the only hall) cannot be used for gatherings etc sports only!! and every other room is too small to use for a large number of people! the rooms will be let out to individuals for various activities - and the cost does not include the cost of insurance - and the cost of this insurance is huge as the council tells the individual how much cover is needed - millions!

The large hall can be used for gatherings - people simply have to take their shoes off. There are plenty of homes where the house-rule is "shoes off at the door", this is no different.

And of course groups have to provide their own insurance, that's the way most venues work. FWIW, I'm involved with a community group that hold insurnace for weekly meetings of a high risk group... insurance costs about E200/year. Hardly huge.

Mountain. Molehill. Much, methinks.

Iwannahurl

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The large hall can be used for gatherings - people simply have to take their shoes off. There are plenty of homes where the house-rule is "shoes off at the door", this is no different.

That's not realistic.

inisboffin

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And of course groups have to provide their own insurance, that's the way most venues work. FWIW, I'm involved with a community group that hold insurnace for weekly meetings of a high risk group... insurance costs about E200/year. Hardly huge.

Some groups are sensible about the amount for insurance, much like the group you mention above probably, but through work I've come across some organisations that demand a completely unrealistic coverage and premium, given the event being organised. Ironically it is often Arts Connected (them artists are loaded!:rolleyes:) and often for low risk events.
Is there a set amount for the Centre or is it event dependent?

beardybrewer

“There is a spongy type floor there which is ideal for indoor sports but is easily damaged to I have asked the council to provide a special floor covering so that other groups can hold events there. There are also a number of meeting rooms which can be used as rehearsal space for theatre groups, classes, and aerobics,” said Cllr Lyons who further explained that the naming of the centre has yet to be resolved and has been referred to the place name committee. He also noted that as the council will only be managing the centre in the short term there is still concern within the community that the long term operation will go to a profit driven private company.

You've waited 20 years, what's 5 more for a floor?

Mrs OBumble

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That's not realistic.

Because? ...

Seriously, I've attended large events overseas where everyone had to take their shoes off and leave 'em outside. Can't see why it's not possible here.




Re insurance, we have 2.6 million's cover in any one event, and unlimited over time. How much are the council demanding that organisations take out?

Gerry 57

Will cost you 60 euro an hour to use the Basketball court, you will need to book in Advance

Gerry 57

Basketball Court, being promoted for indoor soccer in its present form poses Health and Safety issues,
Three walls and then on the fourth side you have a three tier concrete seating and viewing area the full length of the court, anyone who has played indoor soccer will realise players will tumble into the hard seating area and could cause serious injury.
A clear wall or safety barrier will have to be fitted
Further the lights while at a good height would shatter with a belt of a leather football, proper guards will have to be fitted.
The City Council want to hand this entity out to a private entity to run, yet they estimate running costs to come in at 300 to 350 thousand per anum
The income one could gain from the sports hall, the multifunction room, and the three meeting rooms with a subsidy from the council capped at 50k makes this plan a non runner.
Finding a floor covering that can be laid for large social events a must for a proper community centre, and to make a decent income to cover costs and be removed again without damaging the sports floor will be some achievement
Nice building without doubt, but to make it become a fully functioning Community Centre that can fill the needs of the community and pay its way is another days work
Floodlit Astro turf facilities outside the centre that can be rented and with community support and involvement in the management of the complex is the only way forward.
As bang for buck goes 3.5 million spent on lovely looking building that is not cost effective and in its present
form cannot be called a community centre, leaves a lot of serious questions to be asked

karen89

Going back to the Knocknacarra Parish Gathering, it was suggested that the parish would source, pay for and install a temp. floor on top of the existing one, and the council objected saying they would have to source it, parish pay for it and then they would need to install it and remove it and would need a couple of weeks notice - this was a meeting 1 week before the event. No its not going to be o benifit to the people it was suppose to be for!

Iwannahurl

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Because? ...

Seriously, I've attended large events overseas where everyone had to take their shoes off and leave 'em outside. Can't see why it's not possible here.

What kinds of event overseas?

It's physically possible for a large crowd attending an event in the Knocknacarra Community Centre to remove their shoes. However, it's likely that many people will not want to do so, and in any case it's probably impractical in the current set-up.

I don't know what large events might be considered for this venue, but if it's a play or concert do you really think people will feel inclined to attend in their socks or bare feet?

Perhaps it will depend on the nature of the occasion, and on the type of crowd expected.

With regard to practicalities, if 800 people attend an event, where will they put their shoes? Will there have to be a system for keeping track of people's footwear, or would it just be an informal arrangement?

Incidentally, if it's a seated event, can chairs be placed on the Dura-Sport surface?

stampydmonkey

Jeez. How hard can it be to source a big carpet. Nuig prob have an old one. They've been rolling out the carpet in the old sports centre for years and years.

Also the same floor went into sligo regional sports centre. There was a big hullaballoo about shoes marking and damaging tho floor. Two weeks later nobody batted an eyelid..Im sure it will be fine.

You'd swear the floor will break apart if a shoe touches it

karen89

LOL the council wont allow a carpet to be just placed over their "State of the Art" floor, oh God no, it might still get damaged, and as for everyone in socks/bare feet - what about the insurance implications???? someone might slip - so em, No, thats not an option in their opinion either!! so it is a floor to look at not stand on!!

Mrs OBumble

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What kinds of event overseas?

Meetings. Funerals. Etc.

In some countries, it's considered incredibly rude to take shoes that have been dragged thru dog-sh*te etc outside, and then put them inside. Eck... germs and all.