Ireland u20 6 Nations and Junior World Cup 2014

Fireball07

Buer wrote: »

Lacks incision? No cutting edge?

Not sharp enough.

RobbieRuns

The debate over the fly half position will go on I suppose, but to boil it down to pure facts, I believe that young O'Hagan has been mentioned earlier by someone as scoring 39 points out of 49 for the whole Connacht team in the three games, one lad told me at the Munster game that his total kicking ratio for the games was 12 kicks with 11 successful in total. That is a ratio that any international would be proud of.

I only point this out as two of his four kicks v Munster in particular were heartbreaking for them, two penalties, one from the far touchline and one from close to the halfway line. A few people were questioning the decisions in the stand with regards to distance, he knew what he was doing as he was successful. To kick points when you have men in the sin bin (which they had) can really affect the opposition. The Munster kicker was under more pressure with way easier kicks and blew it. When you're opposition is slotting everything it can get to you, I think that it did. If people say that kicking doesn't matter, then I have to disagree, one try each last weekend, more penalties to Munster, easier kicks at goals to Munster, more men in the bin and Connacht won.

Realistically, if these interpros were trials then O'Hagan passed with flying colours, not sure if any player scored more over the three games. Not just his kicking either but two tries v Ulster as well. Could not see any reason to put someone ahead of him based on those games.

I watched this lad last year playing in games for Connacht U18 and he was good enough for 20's even then, he was head and shoulders above everyone else. When you see someone stand out like he does it is very rare. I actually think that he is going to get better and better. They would be mad to leave him out.

CGD

Won't get picked because he is the top points scorer or good with the boot, won't hurt his chances. I agree with you and think he is the leading candidate out of this years crop of 10's.

Byrne's stock in leinster actually went down from end of schools cup but not sure if that is down to poor coaching or not. McKeon got no chance to show what he is like at all and don't know a whole lot about the Ulster 10. if picking a 10 in the morning it would be O'Hagan

RuPi

Ulster 10 has another year at school so won't be available for selection for the U20's as I imagine he will be in the middle of the schools cup.

Leinster5

It's hard to predict these teams really. The Byrne twins were predicted both to start and didn't, then there were some injuries that kept key players out. It's all hear say and a lot will depend on how the players perform for their respective clubs at Under 20 and AIL level.

Hagz

I still think it's ludicrous that Bryan Byrne wasn't even involved in the 6nations. The two of them were awesome in the JWC.

Morf

Hagz wrote: »

I still think it's ludicrous that Bryan Byrne wasn't even involved in the 6nations. The two of them were awesome in the JWC.

I'm not completely sure which twin is which but one of them was out for a lot of the season after shoulder surgery.

student1990

Morf wrote: »

I'm not completely sure which twin is which but one of them was out for a lot of the season after shoulder surgery.

Ed.

Rugby 567

1 Peter Dooley
2 Ben Burns
3 Rory Burke
4 SOB
5 Ross Moloney
6 peader Timmons
7 Dan Leavy (captain)
8 Jack o'Donoughe
9 Caolin Blade
10 Conor mckeon/ Connacht 10
11 Adam Byrne /Alex Wooten
12 Peter Rob/ringrose
13 Rory o'loghlin
14 Cian kelleher
15 Billy Dardis

wise7

CGD wrote: »

Won't get picked because he is the top points scorer or good with the boot, won't hurt his chances. I agree with you and think he is the leading candidate out of this years crop of 10's.

Byrne's stock in leinster actually went down from end of schools cup but not sure if that is down to poor coaching or not. McKeon got no chance to show what he is like at all and don't know a whole lot about the Ulster 10. if picking a 10 in the morning it would be O'Hagan

Picking a 10 because he is a good player with developed skills is not enough. The key role for a 10 is game management and to be effective you must have tactical awareness and understand about space. Byrne is the clear leader of the 10's in this department and he gets the most out of his fellow players by putting them into usable space with really crisp ball. He has a kicking game that is excellent and his defence is like a backrow's. As a bonus he is a class placekicker, which he demonstrated over two SCT campaigns with St. Michaels and don't forget his haul of more than 20 successful kicks for Leinster u-18's last year.

wise7

wise7 wrote: »

Picking a 10 because he is a good player with developed skills is not enough. The key role for a 10 is game management and to be effective you must have tactical awareness and understand about space. Byrne is the clear leader of the 10's in this department and he gets the most out of his fellow players by putting them into usable space with really crisp ball. He has a kicking game that is excellent and his defence is like a backrow's. As a bonus he is a class placekicker, which he demonstrated over two SCT campaigns with St. Michaels and don't forget his haul of more than 20 successful kicks for Leinster u-18's last year.

In the interpro's, Leinster got hammered in the scrums in every match and effectively were living off scraps of possession at times. Yet Leinster won the series by scoring with a potent backline that had to use scarce enough ball to great effect. This wasn't an accident and the 10 played a pivotal role in directing this attacking game off limited ball and by creating attacks through feeding the runners wisely and only kicking for position when there was something on.

RobbieRuns

wise7 wrote: »

Picking a 10 because he is a good player with developed skills is not enough. The key role for a 10 is game management and to be effective you must have tactical awareness and understand about space. Byrne is the clear leader of the 10's in this department and he gets the most out of his fellow players by putting them into usable space with really crisp ball. He has a kicking game that is excellent and his defence is like a backrow's. As a bonus he is a class placekicker, which he demonstrated over two SCT campaigns with St. Michaels and don't forget his haul of more than 20 successful kicks for Leinster u-18's last year.

interesting debate. I was pointing out previously that O'Hagan stepped up to these interpros and demonstrated his game awareness and astute eye for a break as well. His kicking was there to be seen as was Byrnes, who missed so many kicks in his first game that the duties went to Ringrose. He may have scored 20 for probably the best Leinster schools side ever, but it would be safe to say that lots of them would have been under the posts for the amount of tries that they scored last year ! They hammered everyone did they not?

This years interpros was what I was solely judging on. Kicking was only part of it but an important part, I was just pointing out the facts.

I also do not think that people know how good this O'Hagan lad really is, when you come from a route of Exiles, Irish Clubs and then Connacht you might not have the calibre of player around you that St Michaels, Irish Schools and Leinster would have but any time that I have seen this boy play he has produced. He was in a similar position to Byrne with the McKeon situation as everyone here in Connacht thought that Ben Carty was a nailed on starter for 10 having won the interpros at 19's and he is a very very good player, a great 10 in fact and it was going to take an even better player to displace him. O'Hagan got the spot and was the youngest player on the team and produced.

Forgetting about who they displaced or what they have done previously, purely based on the interpros, if they were trials I find it hard to look beyond O'Hagan.

student1990

O'Hagan is obviously very talented, but he is very young. Hard to predict what Ruddock will do though, he has made some bizarre decision previously.

schools rugby

I think Byrne is the front runner at the moment but O'Hagan and McKeon arent far behind. With McKeon playing with Landsdowne i think he will find some real form come the 6 Nations and will be in with a real shout

shuffol

3 Quality 10s so, great stuff, big improvement on last season where there was a guy who looked like a 12 at 10 and he was backed up by another 12.

Glass Prison 1214

shuffol wrote: »

3 Quality 10s so, great stuff, big improvement on last season where there was a guy who looked like a 12 at 10 and he was backed up by another 12.

I didn't see much of the Six Nations, but I thought Crosbie looked very assured at 10 in the JWC.

lurtz

Ed byrne was injured for the yer and bryan really shouldve started

Leinster5

UCD, Old Belvedere, Lansdowne and Trinity all play friendlies this weekend at Under 20 level. Pick of the bunch is UCD vs Old Belvedere.

shuffol

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

I didn't see much of the Six Nations, but I thought Crosbie looked very assured at 10 in the JWC.

He's a quality playmaker but struck me as someone more likely to make it as a 12. He performed well in the JWC but his kicking from hand was poor in the 6N.

schools rugby

Leinster5 wrote: »

UCD, Old Belvedere, Lansdowne and Trinity all play friendlies this weekend at Under 20 level. Pick of the bunch is UCD vs Old Belvedere.

Who is playing with Old Belvedere ?

Hagz

I know Richie Allen, Charlie Rock and Peter Robb are with Old Belvedere. There might be more.

student1990

Robb is injured.

CGD

student1990 wrote: »

Robb is injured.

Pretty sure he will be with AIL team as they are struggling if pre-season is anything to go by. I also heard that Rock bet Bevo at 20's last weekend as well.Belvo have gone backwards since winning AIL a few years back, Same happened Mary's but they fixed it fairly quickly and are back challenging again. Will the same happen Lansdowne? Has been strange how all of the Dublin clubs so far who have won AIL last few years have suffered hugely the following year!

The Lost Sheep

CGD wrote: »

Pretty sure he will be with AIL team as they are struggling if pre-season is anything to go by. I also heard that Rock bet Bevo at 20's last weekend as well.Belvo have gone backwards since winning AIL a few years back, Same happened Mary's but they fixed it fairly quickly and are back challenging again. Will the same happen Lansdowne? Has been strange how all of the Dublin clubs so far who have won AIL last few years have suffered hugely the following year!

Rock did beat Belvedere. In the u20s Blackrock Trophy.
Any info on u20s AIL fixtures available yet?

Leinster5

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Rock did beat Belvedere. In the u20s Blackrock Trophy.
Any info on u20s AIL fixtures available yet?

Wouldn't look much into those results, I doubt the likes of Belvedere, UCD & Lansdowne had their main players playing. They're up on the Leinster site, on the domestic page under fixtures. I'd imagine that this weekend will be the first games for all the interpro players.

The Lost Sheep

Leinster5 wrote: »

Wouldn't look much into those results, I doubt the likes of Belvedere, UCD & Lansdowne had their main players playing. They're up on the Leinster site, on the domestic page under fixtures. I'd imagine that this weekend will be the first games for all the interpro players.

Some of the top players would have played others not. I think you can look into the results as quite a few of the representative players will not play 20s as will be playing AIL senior
You can see fixtures. 2 groups of 6 in first stage before another group stage ahead of the playoffs. Plenty of games ahead with Terenure and Lansdowne the pick of the opening round of games saturday week

Leinster5

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Some of the top players would have played others not. I think you can look into the results as quite a few of the representative players will not play 20s as will be playing AIL senior
You can see fixtures. 2 groups of 6 in first stage before another group stage ahead of the playoffs. Plenty of games ahead with Terenure and Lansdowne the pick of the opening round of games saturday week

Very few players go straight into AIL teams. Look at the likes of Daniel Leavy, Edward Byrne, Gavin Thornbury, Peter Robb, Peter Dooley etc etc all played for their rugby with their clubs under 20 team. It takes a year or two for these guys to develop the size.

hype101

Aside from Dooley, how do the u20s front row shape up this year?.. Couldn't get much from the thread with regard to stand out props

CGD

hype101 wrote: »

Aside from Dooley, how do the u20s front row shape up this year?.. Couldn't get much from the thread with regard to stand out props

Other than Dooley there doesn't appear to be any standouts 2 & 3 will be problem positions as well as front row cover. Hopefully a bolter comes out of somewhere.

student1990

Walshe is good.

Saba not as good as hoped.

No standout at hooker really.

Wonder if we will see some exiles?

Morf

student1990 wrote: »

Saba not as good as hoped.

Hasn't spent 10 years in wrestling school in Georgia sadly.

Leinster5

Old Belvedere play UCD today at home at 3.

Woody1997

hype101 wrote: »

Aside from Dooley, how do the u20s front row shape up this year?.. Couldn't get much from the thread with regard to stand out props

Is Adam boland eligible again this year? He started for the lansdowne seniors yesterday

Hagz

Woody1997 wrote: »

Is Adam boland eligible again this year? He started for the lansdowne seniors yesterday

Nope.

hype101

What about Rory Burke?.. Big unit.. How did he go in the interpros?

The Lost Sheep

hype101 wrote: »

What about Rory Burke?.. Big unit.. How did he go in the interpros?

Good against Leinster. Didn't see other games. should def be looked at for irish set up. Like all players what will affect chances of irish call up will be the rugby he plays between now and the training camps and first 6 nations game with players playing AIL, u20s or 2nds etc

student1990

Burke is decent, would be a strong contender for me.

P.Walnuts

McKeever not going to come into consideration?

student1990

P.Walnuts wrote: »

McKeever not going to come into consideration?

nope, quit on Leinster after less than a weeks preseason.

P.Walnuts

student1990 wrote: »

nope, quit on Leinster after less than a weeks preseason.

Jaysus, any reason?

lurtz

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Jaysus, any reason?

probably just wasnt up for it,same with Somerville

Boland is captaining the lansdowne 20s this year but isnt underage for JWC

student1990

basically wasnt up for the work required.

schools rugby

lurtz wrote: »

probably just wasnt up for it,same with Somerville

Boland is captaining the lansdowne 20s this year but isnt underage for JWC

How is that ?

The Lost Sheep

lurtz wrote: »

probably just wasnt up for it,same with Somerville

Boland is captaining the lansdowne 20s this year but isnt underage for JWC

Not possible. To play 20s club rugby this season you must be eligible to play interpro rugby as they are the same age groups with same dates of eligibility - 1/1/94.

Every year there is youngsters that even when given shot at provincial jerseys and then some and they turn it down for variety of reasons not just that they weren't "up for it"
In my own club there is a young lad playing 1st team rugby and stars with them and he turned down provincial call up a few years ago as just didn't want it then but has kept playing and provinces have looked at him and he did some sessions with 1 of the provincial academies/sub academies last season.

its_phil

schools rugby wrote: »

How is that ?

It's u21's IIRC

The Lost Sheep

its_phil wrote: »

It's u21's IIRC

Not anymore. Leinster changed to 20s as Munster changed to 20s as Munster changed principal age groups from u13/15/17/19/21 to u13/14/16/18/20 for this season

Leinster5

The age groups between Club and Provincial are different. Clubs are July, while Provincial is a lot different.

Anyone know when the Ireland u20 squad is announced ?

The Lost Sheep

Leinster5 wrote: »

The age groups between Club and Provincial are different. Clubs are July, while Provincial is a lot different.

Anyone know when the Ireland u20 squad is announced ?

Age cut off for Club and School Rugby has not been July for several seasons. Think it was 2009/2010 when it changed to January 1st
Provincial rugby has always been January 1st

Irish 20s squad will not be announced for months officially though you will hear of some players who make the Initial camps as they take place over the upcoming weeks and months ahead.

CGD

Leinster's cut off is 01/07/1993 for what they call 20's
Different in different provinces which is hard to believe. You would think they would sort it out at national level and keep the same cut off everywhere. Should be the same as international 20's but theft might to much senses!

hype101

So is Boland definitely not underage?.. I heard on a tread last year someone hyping a guy to the nines by the name of Andrew Hoey.. Blackrock I think.. He was injured for ages and missed the cup apparently but heard no more