UN Human Rights Committee to adopt issues regarding Ireland

Michael Nugent

The UN Human Rights Committee is preparing to adopt a list of issues about Ireland at its session from 14 October to 1 November.

Atheist Ireland has sent a submission to the Human Rights Committee asking them to raise the following secular issues with Ireland:

1. Article 2 – Freedom from Discrimination, Article 18 Freedom of Conscience, Article 26 Equality before the law, Article 24 The rights of the child.
2. Religious instruction classes
3. Religious integrated curriculum
4. Access to schools without religious discrimination
5. Recommendations by the IHRC on School Enrollment Policies
6. Protecting the Human Rights of minorities in the education system
7. Religious Oaths
8. Civil Registration Amendment Act 2012
9. Article 19 Freedom of Expression – Blasphemy

You can read the full Atheist Ireland submission here.

Lucy8080

Michael Nugent wrote: »

The UN Human Rights Committee is preparing to adopt a list of issues about Ireland at its session from 14 October to 1 November.

Atheist Ireland has sent a submission to the Human Rights Committee asking them to raise the following secular issues with Ireland:

1. Article 2 – Freedom from Discrimination, Article 18 Freedom of Conscience, Article 26 Equality before the law, Article 24 The rights of the child.
2. Religious instruction classes
3. Religious integrated curriculum
4. Access to schools without religious discrimination
5. Recommendations by the IHRC on School Enrollment Policies
6. Protecting the Human Rights of minorities in the education system
7. Religious Oaths
8. Civil Registration Amendment Act 2012
9. Article 19 Freedom of Expression – Blasphemy

You can read the full Atheist Ireland submission here.

I've been on my holidays...was working back to the last thread I posted in and saw this. When I look at a pronouncement from an "atheist" organisation, with unqualified thanks, and no attempt at criticism or discussion,well...frankly...my B.S. radar goes off the charts. The pope would struggle to get such an unqualified response on an Irish Catholic board...or a Paisley on a "Presbytyrian Ulsterman " boards...if such existed....I bet every one here can imagine their own comedic equivalent!

I guess I'll have to take "atheist Ireland" on a point by point claim...because they make so many points( without question, round here).

Point one. "Atheist Ireland" claims to Promote reason over superstition.

What is your reasoned position on the bible?

Amirani

Lucy8080 wrote: »

What is your reasoned position on the bible?

It's a book.

Lucy8080

Well spotted!

Go to the top of the class.

Amirani

Is that not a reasonable position to have on the Bible? I don't know what other sort of answer you were looking for? It's a very vague question.

Lucy8080

hey, it's a book, I agree.

I'm interested in "Atheists Irelands " position on it!

I think they don't like it....what do you think?

Michael Nugent

In the context of this discussion, which is about the protection and promotion of human rights, the most relevant aspect of the Bible is its frequent condoning, encouraging, instructing and promoting of violations of human rights.

Absolam

Lucy8080 wrote: »

hey, it's a book, I agree.

I'm interested in "Atheists Irelands " position on it!

I think they don't like it....what do you think?

Why do you think they don't like it?
Do you think they think it's poorly written, is internally inconsistent, lacks pace, or just fails to live up to its' reviews?

Lucy8080

Context !

In what context are writings ( such as the bible) written from?

According to Athiest Ireland's position, of course.

I think Atheist Ireland has already decided the context!

Lucy8080

Absolam wrote: »

Why do you think they don't like it?
Do you think they think it's poorly written, is internally inconsistent, lacks pace, or just fails to live up to its' reviews?

I've seen Michael quote it to win an argument against another poster!

I could be wrong asserting that they don't like, I suspect they don't like it.

Maybe they do like it!

I'm just asking questions!

Absolam

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest some probably like it and some probably don't. On the one hand, it sometimes has quite soft pages, on the other, it's often heavy.

MrPudding

Michael Nugent wrote: »

The UN Human Rights Committee is preparing to adopt a list of issues about Ireland at its session from 14 October to 1 November.

Atheist Ireland has sent a submission to the Human Rights Committee asking them to raise the following secular issues with Ireland:

1. Article 2 – Freedom from Discrimination, Article 18 Freedom of Conscience, Article 26 Equality before the law, Article 24 The rights of the child.
2. Religious instruction classes
3. Religious integrated curriculum
4. Access to schools without religious discrimination
5. Recommendations by the IHRC on School Enrollment Policies
6. Protecting the Human Rights of minorities in the education system
7. Religious Oaths
8. Civil Registration Amendment Act 2012
9. Article 19 Freedom of Expression – Blasphemy

You can read the full Atheist Ireland submission here.

So what exactly does it mean when you say they are going to "adopt" them? Does that mean they have accepted these points are issues which they are going to investigate?

MrP

Absolam

It would be more clear, I think, to say that at the October session the Commission will issue a report on Human Rights in Ireland, and as part of that report will 'adopt' a position on what it sees as rights issues in the State. It doesn't mean that any of the issues put forward by Athiest Ireland (or any other group) will be included. I imagine religious groups will also have made submissions seeking to have their own perspective endorsed as rights in a similar fashion.

Akrasia

Lucy8080 wrote: »

I've seen Michael quote it to win an argument against another poster!

I could be wrong asserting that they don't like, I suspect they don't like it.

Maybe they do like it!

I'm just asking questions!

Whether atheists like the book or not is completely irrelevant.

The point is that even if the Bible was universally accepted as a complete masterpiece of writing, compelling from beginning to end, consistent, inspirational, moving and providing meaning and guidance for how we should live our lives, none of that would change the fact that the claims held within a book are not evidence that those claims are true.

A book can not make claims and then declare that those claims are true because they're in the book

Atheists don't believe the claims of the bible.

I happen to love Brahm Stoker's Dracula, it's one of the best books I have ever read. Within the narrative of the book, Vampires are real. If I take the book as a work of fiction, I can suspend my disbelief in vampires and enjoy the book. However, if anyone was try to use the book as evidence that vampires are real, I would have to declare myself to be vehemently avampirist as there is no evidence outside of the book for the claims within the book.

gaynorvader

Lucy8080 wrote: »

I've seen Michael quote it to win an argument against another poster!

You can't 'win' an argument.

Lucy8080 wrote:

I could be wrong asserting that they don't like, I suspect they don't like it.

Maybe they do like it!

I'm just asking questions!

Pointless ones in the context of the thread, also probably in the wrong place. You should really be putting them to Atheist Ireland rather than here.

Rev Hellfire

Title seems a bit misleading,
AI have put a submission in. Nothing has been adopted at this stage, nor are they guaranteed to be adopted.

But hey a catchy title is catchy

robindch

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Context! In what context are writings ( such as the bible) written from? According to Athiest Ireland's position, of course. I think Atheist Ireland has already decided the context!

I'm not sure you noticed that Michael answered your question above - perhaps you could try replying to that and taking part in a discussion, instead of just delivering random questions and ignoring the replies that people write for you.

You've been asked to do this time and again in the past - if you can't manage it this time, you'll receive some moderator intervention.

Brian Shanahan

Lucy8080 wrote: »

What is your reasoned position on the bible?

It is bad fiction largely plagarised from similar but superior fictions.

magicbastarder

Lucy8080 wrote: »

In what context are writings ( such as the bible) written from?

is this even pertinent? whatever atheists think specifically about the bible does not enlighten or inform a debate about the importance of a secular society.

recedite

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Context !

In what context are writings ( such as the bible) written from?

The Bronze Age mostly. The New Testament would be Iron Age.

Lucy8080

robindch wrote: »

[...] if you can't manage it this time, you'll receive some moderator intervention.

hey [...] prejudice.

robindch

Lucy8080 wrote: »

hey [...] prejudice.

Lucy has been carded for ignoring a mod instruction.

Dave!

Let us lavish Robin's post with unqualified thanks, unquestioning sheep that we are!

Brian Shanahan

Dave! wrote: »

Let us lavish Robin's post with unqualified thanks, unquestioning sheep that we are!

BAAAAAA!

Lucy8080

Clipped again
<Mod: And again!>

Turtwig

Lucy,

If you have an issue with moderation, take it to PM or feedback. Rob asked you to focus on replying not just bombarding posters with questions. As you were previously given a yellow card for ignoring mod instruction I'm sorry to say you've been given an infraction this time.

Lucy8080

Jesus, I got clipped again!

Re-instate the post and let atheists/agnostics here decide if it was upsetting/out of order or unfair.

I'll take the judgement of the majority here.

Turtwig

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Jesus, I got clipped again!

Re-instate the post and let atheists/agnostics here decide if it was upsetting/out of order or unfair.

I'll take the judgement of the majority here.

Lucy,

This is not the time or the place to discuss this stuff. If the post is going to be reinstated it wouldn't be through on thread discussion. Take it to PM, feedback or dispute resolution. Any further posts on this issue in this thread will result in you taking a weekly holiday.

Lucy8080

Don't worry Jernal, I won't question Atheist Ireland ever again on here!

J C

A very interesting thread.

gaynorvader

J C wrote: »

A very interesting thread.

I didn't think so!

J C

gaynorvader wrote: »

I didn't think so!

We'll have to agree to differ on this.

Thanks guys.

gaynorvader

J C wrote: »

We'll have to agree to differ on this.

Thanks guys.

Aw! You're so withholding JC!

J C

gaynorvader wrote: »

Aw! You're so withholding JC!

Not at all.
It really is a very interesting thread.

Dave!

You should 'thank' the OP in that case, like the rest of us have!

J C

Dave! wrote: »

You should 'thank' the OP in that case, like the rest of us have!

It's a free country ... and I'll use my God-given free will to thank or not to thank somebody as I see fit.

Thank you for pointing out that I could thank the OP ... but I'll ignore your advice, thank you very much.

I also don't believe in communal acts of thanksgiving to anybody ... except God.

Dave!

That's how I show my appreciation for interesting threads, but of course you're free to not do so.

J C

Dave! wrote: »

That's how I show my appreciation for interesting threads, but of course you're free to not do so.

Good.

Brian Shanahan

J C wrote: »

I also don't believe in communal acts of thanksgiving to anybody ... except God.

So what you never go to retirement parties, award ceremonies, going away parties, birthday parties, and the myriad other communal acts of thanksgiving which don't have your imaginary friend as a focus?

J C

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

So what you never go to retirement parties, award ceremonies, going away parties, birthday parties, and the myriad other communal acts of thanksgiving which don't have your imaginary friend as a focus?

These are 'rites of passage' or events marking important occasions in peoples lives ... they're not communal acts of thanksgiving bordering on worship ... which should be reserved unto God.

joseph brand

J C wrote: »

These are 'rites of passage' or events marking important occasions in peoples lives ... they're not communal acts of thanksgiving bordering on worship ... which should be reserved unto God.

Thanking posts is bordering on worship? Huh. I would have thought that worship was reserved for the 'lord's flock'.

Braise baby jesus.

MrPudding

J C wrote: »

It's a free country ... and I'll use my God-given free will to thank or not to thank somebody as I see fit.

Thank you for pointing out that I could thank the OP ... but I'll ignore your advice, thank you very much.

I also don't believe in communal acts of thanksgiving to anybody ... except God.

But you thank loads of posts... So why the bullsh1t response making a stupid point?

MrP

Obliq

MrPudding wrote: »

But you thank loads of posts... So why the bullsh1t response making a stupid point?

MrP

There must have been some smugness deficit in his overall self-righteousness quotient.

robindch

J C wrote: »

[...] worship ... which should be reserved unto God.

Reminds me of when Popette refused to play Cheat because the rules were dishonest and good christians are, of course, scrupulously honest.

Days 298

J C wrote: »

It's a free country ... and I'll use my God-given free will to thank or not to thank somebody as I see fit.

Thank you for pointing out that I could thank the OP ... but I'll ignore your advice, thank you very much.

I also don't believe in communal acts of thanksgiving to anybody ... except God.

If God really gave it is it really yours to say "my". Also what happens if he takes it back? Do you become a puppet?

J C

Days 298 wrote: »

If God really gave it is it really yours to say "my". Also what happens if he takes it back? Do you become a puppet?

Yes and Yes.

J C

joseph brand wrote: »

Thanking posts is bordering on worship? Huh. I would have thought that worship was reserved for the 'lord's flock'.

Worship of Humans is found all over the place ... from 'groupies' worshipping the latest 'rock and roller' ... to people kissing the rings of Bishops ... and all kinds of people worshipping their leaders.

J C

joseph brand wrote: »

Braise baby jesus.

Why do you say this?

Sarky

Because you can't just chuck baby meat on a barbecue. It's delicate stuff.

Brian Shanahan

J C wrote: »

These are 'rites of passage' or events marking important occasions in peoples lives ... they're not communal acts of thanksgiving bordering on worship ... which should be reserved unto God.

Ever watch a soccer (rugby, GAA, cricket or whatever you may fancy) match, or go to a concert by your favourite artist, or visit an art gallery?

Some of those kinds of events that I've attended have been far closer to worship than any mass I ever attended. And before I grew out of religion I attended mass regularly (and still do for weddings and funerals if applicable).

Lucy8080

robindch wrote: »

I'm not sure you noticed that Michael answered your question above - perhaps you could try replying to that and taking part in a discussion, instead of just delivering random questions and ignoring the replies that people write for you.

You've been asked to do this time and again in the past - if you can't manage it this time, you'll receive some moderator intervention.

<SNIP>
Lucy has been given a week's holiday for persistently ignoring moderator instruction and bizarrely taking it out on Rob reach time! : confused: