Historicity of Jesus. Now serving Atwil.

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 8:42pm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

That's a lot of words there, yet somehow you still can't seem to find your way to explaining why this matters to you. Your fellow historians accept by a vast majority the historicity of Jesus, so what semantic point are you seeking to prove or demonstrate?

Sweetest may be divine or may not!

I object to people saying something is a demonstrable fact when it bloody well isn't.

That's it.

Seek a deeper explanation all you wish for why passing off a 'probable' as an 'absolutely' bothers me so much, but like with your philosophical red herring (is this a damp squib I see before me?), you shall have to seek it elsewhere as I. do. not. do. psychology. either.

endacl · 13-08-2013 8:45pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I. do. not. do. psychology. either.

I do.

There's lots going on here. I suggest a cup o'tay and a biscuit. Deep breaths. If your simple point hasn't been acknowledged yet, there's very little to say. A discussion-on-pause has been imposed.

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 8:46pm

endacl wrote: »

I do.

There's lots going on here. I suggest a cup o'tay and a biscuit. Deep breaths. If your simple point hasn't been acknowledged yet, there's very little to say. A discussion-on-pause has been imposed.

Can I have coffee instead? I don't like tea.

endacl · 13-08-2013 8:48pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Can I have coffee instead? I don't like tea.

You have what you like m'dear. You've worked hard.

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 9:01pm

endacl wrote: »

You have what you like m'dear. You've worked hard.

tank oo.

endacl · 13-08-2013 9:04pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

tank oo.

Welcome.

As an aside, I wonder if the fact that you don't like tea has anything to do with a limited exposure to varieties. I'd imagine, being from Cork, that you're kinda stuck with Barry's. Ever had a proper cuppa Lyon's?

TheChizler · 13-08-2013 9:05pm

endacl wrote: »

Ever had a proper cuppa Lyon's?

Careful now...

endacl · 13-08-2013 9:06pm

TheChizler wrote: »

Careful now...

Only askin', like!!

:eek:

tallaghtmick · 13-08-2013 9:08pm

Im starting to think Bannasidhe could disprove my existence......

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 9:16pm

endacl wrote: »

Welcome.

As an aside, I wonder if the fact that you don't like tea has anything to do with a limited exposure to varieties. I'd imagine, being from Cork, that you're kinda stuck with Barry's. Ever had a proper cuppa Lyon's?

Yup. Don't like it.

I have also tried
Tetleys
PG Tips
Twinings
that stuff they sell in Aldi.
Tesco finest.
some Aussie ones with a lot of j's in their name.
Indian/Turkish ones my mates make me try in the UK.
Russian tea my Nan brought home from a trip to the USSR.

I did a lot of research and the results so far are that I don't like tea. I cannot say it is an absolute fact that I do not like tea as I haven't tried them all - however it is probable.

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 9:18pm

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Im starting to think Bannasidhe could disprove my existence......

Given the amount of records I have access too in my professional capacity I would be well impressed if there was no record of you.

endacl · 13-08-2013 9:21pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Yup. Don't like it.

I have also tried
Tetleys
PG Tips
Twinings
that stuff they sell in Aldi.
Tesco finest.
some Aussie ones with a lot of j's in their name.
Indian/Turkish ones my mates make me try in the UK.
Russian tea my Nan brought home from a trip to the USSR.

I did a lot of research and the results so far are that I don't like tea. I cannot say it is an absolute fact that I do not like tea as I haven't tried them all - however it is probable.

Thank you for your measured and considered response. I accept that 'Bannasidhe does not at this time like tea, but is open to the possibility that in the future she may like an as yet un-sampled variety of tea' is a most reasonable hypothesis indeed.

How was your coffee? I too am about to have a coffee. Not, I hasten to add, because I don't like tea. I'd just prefer a coffee at this time.

Ah, sure you can't beat a bit o' reasonable discussion!

tallaghtmick · 13-08-2013 9:28pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Given the amount of records I have access too in my professional capacity I would be well impressed if there was no record of you.

Yes Garda :pac:

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 9:28pm

endacl wrote: »

Thank you for your measured and considered response. I accept that 'Bannasidhe does not at this time like tea, but is open to the possibility that in the future she may like an as yet un-sampled variety of tea' is a most reasonable hypothesis indeed.

How was your coffee? I too am about to have a coffee. Not, I hasten to add, because I don't like tea. I'd just prefer a coffee at this time.

Ah, sure you can't beat a bit o' reasonable discussion!

Your hypothesis sums up the current situation precisely. I am indeed open to the possibility that I may at some point in the future develop a fondness for tea despite the fact that to date I have never been partial to it.

Coffee was very nice thank you for asking. Sadly, I had no biscuit to accompany it as I ate the last 3 last night and all I could find were j*ffa Caccas my father brought for the grandchilder which I had forgotten to send home with them.

nagirrac · 13-08-2013 9:29pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I did a lot of research and the results so far are that I don't like tea. I cannot say it is an absolute fact that I do not like tea as I haven't tried them all - however it is probable.

Have you tried any Chinese tea, Oolong, jasmine (oolong with jasmine flowers) or green tea? I find I can drink these all day unlike western style tea.

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 9:32pm

nagirrac wrote: »

Have you tried any Chinese tea, Oolong, jasmine (oolong with jasmine flowers) or green tea? I find I can drink these all day unlike western style tea.

I do, on the occasion of my eating North Africa food/being in North Africa, indulge in mint tea.

Not fond of the floweryness of jasmine rice so don't think I would like the tea but sure I'll try anything twice*.

* to be sure, to be sure.

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 9:35pm

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Yes Garda :pac:

Oh don't - I stupidly agreed to do a day educating trainee gardaí in Templemore about 7 years ago....oh, the horror. The horror.

tallaghtmick · 13-08-2013 9:38pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Oh don't - I stupidly agreed to do a day educating trainee gardaí in Templemore about 7 years ago....oh, the horror. The horror.

They loved Jesus too much didn't they?

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 9:46pm

tallaghtmick wrote: »

They loved Jesus too much didn't they?

All I am prepared to say is that the trainee Guardee I encountered that particular day did not appear to believe in over exerting themselves in the cognitive function department.

Best part was that the person who had invited me was mortified by the whole 'duuuuuhness' of her students. It's always fun to watch someone with whom one shares a deep and mutual dislike squirm.

fatmammycat · 13-08-2013 10:11pm

robindch wrote: »

Five seconds with Google suggests that I've missed a western. A spaghetti western.

/sheesh

Deadwood is possibly one of the greatest, most underated shows of ALL time. I ask you sweetly, give it a bash and enjoy.

Wibbs · 13-08-2013 10:14pm

endacl wrote: »

But that's my point precisely. According to records, Spartacus was a little known Thracian gladiator until his participation in the Third Servile War. He was a historical non-entity, yet as soon as he became a thorn in the side of the Empire, there are all kinds of written contemporary documentary evidence of him, and of his actions. Which coincidentally were of the same historical period as the writing of the gospels. How come this rebel was so carefully documented, and the 'King of the Jews', also a rebel of a sort and a thorn in the side of the empire was not?

Well first off E we have to compare scales here. Sparty was raising an army and successfully with it and bringing it to Rome's doorstep. This was a toga staining moment. He wasn't just a thorn, he was the whole fecking rose bush. Jesus if he was a rebel, was a very local one in a pretty far off province of empire. I'm quite sure if Jesus had rode through the gates of Rome on the back of an ass with locals gilding his path with palm leaves you'd have heard about it and in a big way. Plus chances are he wasn't a direct threat to Roman rule. Again it may well have been as oldrnwisr said a local religious issue dealt with by the locals, so Rome were pretty meh about the whole thing, until later on it started to spread by word of mouth and a religion kicked off on the back of it. Cue hungry lions, stage left.

Or... let's imagine for a mo that the texts are somewhat accurate and this guy did say stuff like "give all to Caesar that is Caesars" and my "kingdom is not of this earth"*. If that got back to the local Italians, it would have taken the heat off him straight away from that quarter. They had bigger ichthys to fry(see what I did there

). "Ok Lucretius, to business, so we have all these local religious nutjobs, any we should worry about? Well yea Claudius, here's a list of the ones calling for our heads. Feckus! there's a fair few of them L. Hang on, who's this Galilean bloke? Oh yea, well he seems to not be too anti Rome TBH C. No death to Roman's guff, just your usual local fear god shtick. Ok L, stick him on the keep an eye, but meh pile".

That said, at least some of his followers were armed. Note the bit in the garden of Gethsemane when Peter in a precursor to Van Gogh lops off one of the arresting guards ears. Now JC stuck it back on so the story goes. You'd think something like that would have had the soldiers crap themselves and fall on their knees to him? Funny that.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Can I have coffee instead? I don't like tea.

Burn her. For verily she is a witch and we cannot suffer a witch to live. Plus coffee is of Saracen origin. Clearly a heretic.

*it's just possible. Catchy phrases like that are the kinda thing that can survive well enough in oral histories. Reading the gospels it does seem like a collection of stories stitched together, with often very clumsy(and geographically awkward links), which may betray something of it's oral origins. Now we rightfully take a gimlet eye to oral history as reliable, but in non literate societies they can transmit stuff pretty well. Look at modern reciters of the entire Quran from memory without mistakes. Hell Julius Caesar notes this about the celtic bards he encounters and learns about and wonders at their prodigious memories. He slightly laments how memory can atrophy because of the otherwise brilliant invention of writing. On that note, I recall reading that the Our Father, a clumsy as fook prayer in English, actually rhymes in Aramaic. Must look more on that. If so it might indicate an origin in that general area. That said, I'm not so solid on whether Jewish culture of the time was as highly practiced an oral tradition as the Celts were, so... In other words, I'd more "trust" a Celtic "Christs" oral tradition story that was written down within 60 years, than I would a Jewish, or indeed Roman one.

Sonics2k · 13-08-2013 10:22pm

I was enjoying this thread up until people started saying Spartacus was a bad show.

You're all terrible people.

robindch · 13-08-2013 10:23pm

fatmammycat wrote: »

Deadwood is possibly one of the greatest, most underated shows of ALL time. I ask you sweetly, give it a bash and enjoy.

Well, being a paid-up Pastafarian, in retrospect there seems to be nothing more suitable than a good dose of spaghetti western. So, with this in mind, I'm heading now to the Grand Telly, a plate of unchocolate ice-cream awaiting, and a beer in my fist, and in a state of the mildest -- the very mildest, mind -- anticipation.

If the pilot's no good, well, maybe the second, but if there are no fireworks by then, I suppose it's back to Attenborough's magnificent [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa_(BBC_documentary_series)Africa[/url], and a third run through House and 2012.

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 10:29pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

I was enjoying this thread up until people started saying Spartacus was a bad show.

You're all terrible people.

Good soft porn tho.

Quatermain · 13-08-2013 10:34pm

Jeez, all the nudity and adult situations he got himself into, no wonder people were lining up pretending to be Spartacus.

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 10:36pm

Quatermain wrote: »

Jeez, all the nudity and adult situations he got himself into, no wonder people were lining up pretending to be Spartacus.

Can you imagine the bedlam at the local STI clinic -
Nursicus - we need to contact every who had sex with this bloke named Spartacus....here, help me with these scrolls.

Quatermain · 13-08-2013 10:41pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Can you imagine the bedlam at the local STI clinic -
Nursicus - we need to contact every who had sex with this bloke named Spartacus....here, help me with these scrolls.

"Spartacuses one through 70, Asclepius will see you now."

What price glory, after all?

Cavehill Red · 13-08-2013 11:42pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sweetest may be divine or may not!

I object to people saying something is a demonstrable fact when it bloody well isn't.

That's it.

But NOTHING in the past is a 'demonstrable' fact, because it is in the past and therefore cannot be demonstrated in the present. Perhaps you mean something other than demonstrable?

Bannasidhe · 13-08-2013 11:50pm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

But NOTHING in the past is a 'demonstrable' fact, because it is in the past and therefore cannot be demonstrated in the present. Perhaps you mean something other than demonstrable?

You are being demonstrably tiresome now.

Cavehill Red · 14-08-2013 1:24am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You are being demonstrably tiresome now.

I'm not going to apologise for continuing to ask you a simple question which for some strange reason you seem disinclined to answer.
Also I would note you are now attempting to personalise the debate.
It's really simple: since almost all respectable historians accept that there was a Jesus around whom a cult, later a religion, formed, what is your issue exactly?

Historicity of Jesus. Now serving Atwil.

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