PARKING in middle of T junction - Garda said "no traffic flow affected"

Supertoucher

This is totally ridiculous.

Ok, so essentially this is an unmarked T junction that really should be marked, and from looking at it on google maps, it is from YOUR direction that should be giving way. Additionally parking opposite should be prohibited with lines (although I'm not sure how likely that is given its a housing estate), and indeed anywhere within 10 metres of the junction. Below is how I think it should be, and even if the council etc. won't mark it, it's how it should be thought of in your head - for no other reason than common sense.



Even though it isn't marked, your gung-ho approach to the corner is incredibly reckless and is going to cause an incident at some point. Even IF you had right of way at the turning, on your immediate left in BOTH occasions there is a parked car, and you are moving out into the middle of the road, because your side of the road is blocked. That at the very least, means you have an obligation to SLOW DOWN and check for oncoming traffic before proceeding.

I simply cannot believe that because you think the markings and/or parking is erroneous, that it gives you not only carte blanche to dive around the corner without any regard, but also to blast other road users in the process

Simply put - madness.

Del2005

dantastic wrote: »

Aaaah, good old boards. A fella opens a thread trying to sort/vent issues with people parking illegally. And by F! you cannot under any circumstances park there in the t-junction (like ever-ever, yellow lines or not).
An the amount of posters suggesting how he should change his driving behaviour etc. If the cars weren't parked there there would be no problem.

So instead of solving the actual problems in the country let's pretend it's your problem until you go away.

This thread clearly demonstrate that the parked cars both are cause of safety concerns and affect traffic flow. I don't care if OP was coming down the road doing 200mph. Those parked cars are still more in the wrong.

Even if the car wasn't parked illegally in the junction the OP should make sure that the road is clear, there could be kids playing or crossing the road. Since this is a junction a pedestrian has control of the junction once they step into the road and since the OP can't see cars approaching with lights on, 2nd vid, how do you think they'll see a pedestrian?

The parked car is a safety concern, which the OP has raised with the Gardaì, yet they aren't altering their driving to accommodate it so IMO the OP is a bigger safety concern.

dantastic

But this thread has NOTHING to do with OP's driving. Why don't we change topic completely and discuss what colour they should paint the wall across the road?

OP's video has if anything served to prove the point that this is a dangerous junction. I don't care if OP is part of the problem, he's still 100% right in his initial claim. But ye just find something else to pick on in usual style to make it OP's fault.

I don't care about OP's driving but by God, paint that wall across the road black!

DonJose

OP cop the f**k on before you kill or injure somebody.

Right of way :

Traffic travelling straight ahead in either direction along a major road has right of way at all times.

If you are approaching a T junction, the traffic already on the road you are joining has right of way. This means any traffic on the road ending at the junction must wait for the other traffic to pass before turning left or right.

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/junctions.html

ironclaw

dantastic wrote: »

But this thread has NOTHING to do with OP's driving. Why don't we change topic completely and discuss what colour they should paint the wall across the road?

OP's video has if anything served to prove the point that this is a dangerous junction. I don't care if OP is part of the problem, he's still 100% right in his initial claim. But ye just find something else to pick on in usual style to make it OP's fault.

I don't care about OP's driving but by God, paint that wall across the road black!

I actually don't see the problem with the car parking there. We live in a day and age where most houses have 2 to 3 cars. Most housing estates can't simple cope with the volume in addition to people carriers / 'mum jeeps' etc making a big impact on the scene in the past 20 years or so. People need to park their cars. Its a housing estate, slow down and just make your way through. I'm sure if you lived there and it was your only option, then you'd be glad of a little consideration (No one would park there out of preference!) If this was a national road or the entrance to an estate, I'd be leading the charge for yellow lines. But its not, calm down, take it handy.

Even if there were spikes and a 24 watch tower so no one could park, the speed the OP is approaching that junction at is ridiculous. Again, kids, pedestrians, animals etc etc.

djimi

dantastic wrote: »

But this thread has NOTHING to do with OP's driving. Why don't we change topic completely and discuss what colour they should paint the wall across the road?

OP's video has if anything served to prove the point that this is a dangerous junction. I don't care if OP is part of the problem, he's still 100% right in his initial claim. But ye just find something else to pick on in usual style to make it OP's fault.

I don't care about OP's driving but by God, paint that wall across the road black!

You cant expect that someone posts two videos of themselves driving in a reckless manner and that people will just ignore that and comment on the bad parking? Come off it.

The point that is being made is that the OP knows full well that its a dangerous situation, and while they are completely correct in saying that the car should not be parked there, if they are involved in an accident driving like they do in the video then they are the sole cause; not the parked car, not the lack of road markings, not the other driver. They know the danger and they have the power to prevent a dangerous situation from occuring by showing some caution and common sense; both of which are severely lacking in the videos posted.

Triangla

dantastic wrote: »

But this thread has NOTHING to do with OP's driving. Why don't we change topic completely and discuss what colour they should paint the wall across the road?

OP's video has if anything served to prove the point that this is a dangerous junction. I don't care if OP is part of the problem, he's still 100% right in his initial claim. But ye just find something else to pick on in usual style to make it OP's fault.

I don't care about OP's driving but by God, paint that wall across the road black!

Yes it does.

The person parking the car is not reading this thread as far as I know, the OP is.

Hopefully the OP will heed peoples warnings and not crash into someone.

They can highlight and I hope contribute to solving the problem without resorting to dangerous driving on purpose.

alphabeat

Mycroft H wrote: »

You sound like my aul fella.

we need to talk ...

cpoh1

I made a comment earlier in the thread before the videos were posted about this situation being down to an attitude problem on the OP's part. Glad I was proved right looking at those videos.

I know if this was happening outside my house, or if I was one of the drivers on the receiving end i would not take too kindly to it. At the end of the day you are living in a community area with neighbours, children and pets, a little consideration for others wouldnt go amiss.

OP - take a deep breath, take it down a notch and let it go. The junction and the way people are parking is not the problem, your attitude towards it is. Parking scenarios like that are happening in thousands of neighbourhoods all over the country.

Would be worried that there are bigger issues going on at a personal level that are manifesting themselves in irrational behviour like in the video

DubTony

ironclaw wrote: »

I actually don't see the problem with the car parking there. We live in a day and age where most houses have 2 to 3 cars. Most housing estates can't simple cope with the volume in addition to people carriers / 'mum jeeps' etc making a big impact on the scene in the past 20 years or so. People need to park their cars.

This is the attitude that leads to people parking where they like, irrespective of rules of the road. The car is parked illegally. You would have a problem with it if you were driving along that road, trying to negotiate going around that parked car and an idiot comes tearing out of the side turn all self righteous and indignant and rams your car.

Cause and effect! If the car wasn't parked illegally there (probably) wouldn't be a guy tearing around the place recording his shoddy driving habits and almost getting involved in accidents.

freshpopcorn

Two wrongs don't make a right!

dickwod1

OP is totally wreckless with his driving in both those videos and if an accident had occurred on either occasion he would be 100% completely in the wrong.

The other car's have driven at least 200m along a straight road (marked red) and have every right to overtake a parked car provided no other car's are coming in the opposite direction (and there is no car coming in the opposite direction), they at this point have the right of way as they are on the road already that the OP is turning onto (OP position marked yellow) yet the OP thinks he has the right of way on a road he hasn't even driven on.



Even though OP knows this is a dangerous junction in this estate when a car is parked there that he can see clearly for a long distance, he still races around the corner and almost crashes on purpose to prove a car is parked badly.

I hope you change the way your driving as you could do serious damage to somebody if you continue driving in this manner.

Caliden

Unsure of what the feck you're blowing your horn at OP? If that was me, I'd be getting out to see what your problem was because it's definitely you at fault if there's an accident there.

There's parked cars on your side of the road, that doesn't mean you can just go around them and blow your horn at oncoming cars to get out of your way.

cpoh1

DubTony wrote: »

This is the attitude that leads to people parking where they like, irrespective of rules of the road. The car is parked illegally. You would have a problem with it if you were driving along that road, trying to negotiate going around that parked car and an idiot comes tearing out of the side turn all self righteous and indignant and rams your car.

Cause and effect! If the car wasn't parked illegally there wouldn't be a guy tearing around the place recording his shoddy driving habits and almost getting involved in accidents.

You have no idea if this car is parked illegally:
There are no double yellow lines
There is no road marking to show this as a t-junction or any kind of junction at all
This could be a private estate not governed by the RTA and parking laws.

My point is, the OP is travelling at an inapproprite speed for a housing estate, and is leaving a "junction" without giving way to the main flow of traffic (in a straight line).

Even if there was no parked cars in the area he would still be completely wrong with his driving.

A couple of questions:
What if theres a child skateboarding on that bend?
What if there are a group of lads kicking a ball around?
Some kids setting up a cake sale on the corner with people gathering out front?

Im not trying to be sensationalist but the above (including parking!) are all normal occurances in housing developments, its not letter of the law correct but its life. The moral high ground is fantastic until somebodies lives are irreversably impacted by the stupidity of others.

DubTony

cpoh1 wrote: »

You have no idea if this car is parked illegally:
There are no double yellow lines
There is no road marking to show this as a t-junction or any kind of junction at all
This could be a private estate not governed by the RTA and parking laws.

My point is, the OP is travelling at an inapproprite speed for a housing estate, and is leaving a "junction" without giving way to the main flow of traffic (in a straight line).

Even if there was no parked cars in the area he would still be completely wrong with his driving.

A couple of questions:
What if theres a child skateboarding on that bend?
What if there are a group of lads kicking a ball around?
Some kids setting up a cake sale on the corner with people gathering out front?

Im not trying to be sensationalist but the above (including parking!) are all normal occurances in housing developments, its not letter of the law correct but its life. The moral high ground is fantastic until somebodies lives are irreversably impacted by the stupidity of others.

:eek:

Last place I expected to see a "It's for the sake of the children" type post.

Have you not read the thread? Of course the ****ing car is parked illegally. It's in the middle of a poxy T-junction. The lack of lines doesn't negate the rules of the road. Don't you know the laws regarding parking?

You seem to think I'm defending the OP's driving. If that's the case, you should go back a page or so and read my earlier post. But just to clarify ... He's driving like a moron. As for the rest of your post ... well ... let me know when that cake sale is on (in the middle of a T-junction).

cpoh1

DubTony wrote: »

:eek:

Last place I expected to see a "It's for the sake of the children" type post.

Have you not read the thread? Of course the ****ing car is parked illegally. It's in the middle of a poxy T-junction. Don't you know the rules regarding parking?

You seem to think I'm defending the OP's driving. If that's the case, you should go back a page or so and read my earlier post. But just to clarify ... He's driving like a moron. As for the rest of your post ... well ... let me know when that cake sale is on (in the middle of a T-junction).

Firstly, there are no parking laws on private property. This may not be a public road and may be in a private housing estate as is the case in a lot of places. You would be surprised how many estates fall under this bracket. You cant say for definite this is illegal parking, its not black and white.

Secondly, this isin't a "It's for the sake of the children" scenario, its me thinking of my own estate, my own children and my neighbours kids too. I dont care what RTA there is in place, if that kind of driving was to happen where I live someone would get hurt. To you this may be a t-junction but to the people living all around it is where they live.

Your post is bordering on Trolling to be honest.

dantastic

ironclaw wrote: »

I actually don't see the problem with the car parking there. We live in a day and age where most houses have 2 to 3 cars. Most housing estates can't simple cope with the volume in addition to people carriers / 'mum jeeps' etc making a big impact on the scene in the past 20 years or so. People need to park their cars. Its a housing estate, slow down and just make your way through. I'm sure if you lived there and it was your only option, then you'd be glad of a little consideration (No one would park there out of preference!) If this was a national road or the entrance to an estate, I'd be leading the charge for yellow lines. But its not, calm down, take it handy.

Even if there were spikes and a 24 watch tower so no one could park, the speed the OP is approaching that junction at is ridiculous. Again, kids, pedestrians, animals etc etc.

Would you care to compile a comprehensive list of laws and regulations it's OK not to follow?

Is it OK to park in the middle of the t junction, how about smack in the middle of the road? Sideways? Sure, what's the harm? If you don't like it don't dive here!

Laws and regulations are really simple, they are black ans white. It doesn't matter what you think is ok.

If you can't fit 1/2/3 or however many cars you need on your own drive way maybe YOU should consider moving somewhere else?

DubTony

cpoh1 wrote: »

Firstly, there are no parking laws on private property. This may not be a public road and may be in a private housing estate as is the case in a lot of places. You would be surprised how many estates fall under this bracket. You cant say for definite this is illegal parking, its not black and white.

Secondly, this isin't a "It's for the sake of the children" scenario, its me thinking of my own estate, my own children and my neighbours kids too. I dont care what RTA there is in place, if that kind of driving was to happen where I live someone would get hurt. To you this may be a t-junction but to the people living all around it is where they live.

Your post is bordering on Trolling to be honest.

Oh Jesus. Heart bleeding much?

Private road? That's a nice little strawman you've cooked up there. And again, you go on about the OPs driving after I made it clear that I felt he was driving stupidly.
To you what you're saying might make sense, but to the smart people around here, you're just being silly.

cpoh1

dantastic wrote: »

Would you care to compile a comprehensive list of laws and regulations it's OK not to follow?

Is it OK to park in the middle of the t junction, how about smack in the middle of the road? Sideways? Sure, what's the harm? If you don't like it don't dive here!

Laws and regulations are really simple, they are black ans white. It doesn't matter what you think is ok.

If you can't fit 1/2/3 or however many cars you need on your own drive way maybe YOU should consider moving somewhere else?

Is it legal for kids to be playing on roads in estates?
What about people walking their dogs off a lead?

Im assuming neither are to the letter of the law but that doesnt make it any easier for the driver who ends up killing or seriously injuring someone partaking in this.

Ill repeat for the last time, private housing estates are a lot (not all) of the time exempt from RTA's because they are not owned by the local county council so the parking situation is NOT black and white. Dangerous driving is.

cpoh1

DubTony wrote: »

To you what you're saying might make sense, but to the smart people around here, you're just being silly.

You're less smart and more smartypants unfortunately Tony :P

MrDerp

This actually goes a long way to explaining some of the bad driving I see every day I'm on the roads.

That someone would actually go around the corner like that, and THEN hammer the horn at the driver going about their business goes a long way to explaining bad drivers - they actually think they are in the right.

OP, even if there wasn't a car parked in the entire estate, I would be down to a crawl going around that corner. With parked cars, I would be stopped. I used to have a similar junction leaving my last house. Even though there was room for 2 cars to pass, despite all the cars parked on the junction, there certainly wasn't room for one to pull out.

Twice in 4 years in that estate, I misjudged (poor view around a Jeep/Van ... poor concetration really) and pulled out a bit only to see a car coming down on the left. I immediately apologised, got a smile and wave on to complete my turn on both occasions.

You see, that's how rational people drive. They approach junctions with parked cars with care. Realistically, you need to yield left and right in these situations. There was never anything even close to an accident on my two slips because:
1. I had actually stopped before moving on both occasions, so I merely edged out <1m
2. The cars coming in the opposite direction understand the hazard and are proceeding with caution

No horns, no confrontation, no hypothetical arguments about "who would have been in the wrong" with the other driver. Me waving an apology for being a douche, them accepting it and appreciating it's a tricky situation.

dantastic

cpoh1 wrote: »

Is it legal for kids to be playing on roads in estates?
What about people walking their dogs off a lead?

Im assuming neither are to the letter of the law but that doesnt make it any easier for the driver who ends up killing or seriously injuring someone partaking in this.

Ill repeat for the last time, private housing estates are a lot (not all) of the time exempt from RTA's because they are not owned by the local county council so the parking situation is NOT black and white. Dangerous driving is.

Park wherever you want, because children.

/ thread?

cpoh1

dantastic wrote: »

/ thread?

Yes.

Can control own behaviour and driving.

Cannot control external influences such as children, parked cars and other peoples behaviour

djimi

DubTony wrote: »

Cause and effect! If the car wasn't parked illegally there (probably) wouldn't be a guy tearing around the place recording his shoddy driving habits and almost getting involved in accidents.

There is no such thing as cause and effect in this situation; we are each responsible for our own driving. The car might be parked illegally, but its not directly going to cause an accident; if an accident occurs it will be because the OP is tearing around corners and through junctions when they know full well it might not be safe to do so. That is on them and nobody else.

dickwod1

rolion wrote: »

OP's videos would be great for the "Dash cam saves nails your ass" thread.

Triangla

dantastic wrote: »

Park wherever you want, because children.

/ thread?

Drive at 200mph around a housing estate ......... because one car is parked in a dodgy spot?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

DubTony

djimi wrote: »

There is no such thing as cause and effect in this situation; we are each responsible for our own driving. The car might be parked illegally, but its not directly going to cause an accident; if an accident occurs it will be because the OP is tearing around corners and through junctions when they know full well it might not be safe to do so. That is on them and nobody else.

I guess I was being a bit cryptic. And I agree with you completely. In my example the cause was the illegally parked car, with the effect being the OP tearing up the roads armed with a dash cam and an attitude trying to prove a point.

DubTony

cpoh1 wrote: »

You're less smart and more smartypants unfortunately Tony :P

No ... Wait ... Wait

Gotta get the last word in.

Watch the video. As the idiot in the SUV OP arrives at the junction, it's easy to see the green road sign on the grass verge opposite. Green road signs are put in place by the council.* So ... therefore this must be an estate that has been taken in hand by the council so is not a private estate.

BOOOOM !!!!!

*This statement may or may not be correct, and may or may not lead to the rest of the comment being untrue.

Damien360

Read all this and ignoring the silly driving, the only thing that will fix this situation throughout the country is when everyone actually comes to a full stop at every junction. Bit like the US. You will see everyone come to a full stop at every single junction because it is the law before proceeding. I saw this happen myself at a completely clear junction in the US. We would have looked and continued rolling forward before accelerating, never fully stopping.

Is OP getting "right of way" and believing it to be "right has way". First posts back after 7 months believes that right lane is clear therefore he is clear despite coming from a minor to a major road .

Del2005

dantastic wrote: »

Would you care to compile a comprehensive list of laws and regulations it's OK not to follow?

Is it OK to park in the middle of the t junction, how about smack in the middle of the road? Sideways? Sure, what's the harm? If you don't like it don't dive here!

Laws and regulations are really simple, they are black ans white. It doesn't matter what you think is ok.

If you can't fit 1/2/3 or however many cars you need on your own drive way maybe YOU should consider moving somewhere else?

Exactly you can't ignore laws. The OP and the car are both breaking the law. The issue is that the OPs law breaking is the more dangerous as he's aware of the danger yet chooses to ignore it and think that it's perfectly fine to drive at speed into a blind junction. If the illegally parked car wasn't there the OPs driving is still dangerous, as has been pointed out numerous times there are other road users who could be on the section of road the OP is driving into without checking if it's clear and they don't have airbags to protect them.

If the Gardaí arrived at the junction the OP would be getting more tickets than the illegally parked car.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Since when is pointing out that driving at speed in a housing estate and not stopping, or even slowing down, when going around a blind junction getting on a high horse? If a driver is making a mistake is it better to inform them or allow it to continue, which could lead to serious injuries, in case it offends the driver?

DubTony

Something that has been overlooked here is that the OP isn't actually entering another road. The picture he posted at the start of the thread shows that the road he's on, and the road he's going onto are the same. The other road "at the top of the T" is different. So proper road markings would have a yield on that road while a continuous white line would go around the corner, leaving the road the OP is on, and travelling onto, with free flowing traffic. Of course the addition of a continuous white line would make it obvious that the illegally parked car is indeed parked illegally. Assuming that everybody in the area is aware of this it might explain why he comes around the corner in the way that he does.
Not that it changes anything. Still a silly way to enter a junction.

Del2005

DubTony wrote: »

Something that has been overlooked here is that the OP isn't actually entering another road. The picture he posted at the start of the thread shows that the road he's on, and the road he's going onto are the same. The other road "at the top of the T" is different. So proper road markings would have a yield on that road while a continuous white line would go around the corner, leaving the road the OP is on, and travelling onto, with free flowing traffic. Of course the addition of a continuous white line would make it obvious that the illegally parked car is indeed parked illegally. Assuming that everybody in the area is aware of this it might explain why he comes around the corner in the way that he does.
Not that it changes anything. Still a silly way to enter a junction.

Unless there's markings on the road to signifying that the turn is the major road then you assume that the top of the T is the main road. Even if the OP is on the major road that doesn't remove the fact that they are taking the corner too fast to stop on their own side of the road in the distance they can see is clear. I'm getting tired of pointing out that there's more than cars on the wrong side of the road that the OP is putting at risk by taking the corner, or entering a main road, at the speed posted in both videos.

OP 100% in the wrong here.

You are overtaking the parked cars on your left as you immediately exit the corner. In doing so, you drive right into the path of an incoming car. How is driving into the path of an incoming car ever acceptable?


There is no need to be blasting the horn like that either. Depending on the person driving the other car (e.g. elderly person), they could be really shook up after that.

Your consideration of the people around you on the road leaves a lot to be desired

pablo128

Del2005 wrote: »

Unless there's markings on the road to signifying that the turn is the major road then you assume that the top of the T is the main road. Even if the OP is on the major road that doesn't remove the fact that they are taking the corner too fast to stop on their own side of the road in the distance they can see is clear. I'm getting tired of pointing out that there's more than cars on the wrong side of the road that the OP is putting at risk by taking the corner, or entering a main road, at the speed posted in both videos.

At the speed posted in both videos, bot the OP and the other driver were able to come to a stop in the distance they can see is clear.
I'm off out now to drive on the wrong side of the road, and sure if someone comes out of a side road and hits me, according to a lot of posters here, it will be their fault. I could do with someone elses insurance paying for my next car.:D

Big Bag of Chips

pablo128 wrote: »

I'm off out now to drive on the wrong side of the road, and sure if someone comes out of a side road and hits me, according to a lot of posters here, it will be their fault.

If you're passing an obstruction... And have started the maneuver with a clear road ahead of you before the other driver hits you.

So make sure you get the timing right