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Recording nuisance minors

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  • 12-08-2013 10:45am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭


    Does anyone know of any legislation governing the recording of nuisance minors for the purposes of reporting to premises management company? Long story short, neighbours children constantly breaking appartment complex rules and making life miserable for adult residents there. Is it illegal to record these incidents (skateboarding/cycling/ball playing etc) to send on to the management company? If recording is of communal area where there would not be a reasonable expectation of privacy, and made from private home? The only legislation I could find just covered recording in performing arts etc/


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Does anyone know of any legislation governing the recording of nuisance minors for the purposes of reporting to premises management company? Long story short, neighbours children constantly breaking appartment complex rules and making life miserable for adult residents there. Is it illegal to record these incidents (skateboarding/cycling/ball playing etc) to send on to the management company? If recording is of communal area where there would not be a reasonable expectation of privacy, and made from private home? The only legislation I could find just covered recording in performing arts etc/
    There is usually a clause in most leases which restrict you from recording any part of your complex from your own apartment or from using recording equipment in any part of the complex without the permission of the management company. you should report the nuscience to the management company and ask them if you can gather evidence by way of recording the behaviour.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    There is usually a clause in most leases which restrict you from recording any part of your complex from your own apartment or from using recording equipment in any part of the complex without the permission of the management company. you should report the nuscience to the management company and ask them if you can gather evidence by way of recording the behaviour.

    ok thanks, will check lease later :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    ok thanks, will check lease later :)
    Have you tried telling them to stop and if that fails report them to the management company? you are allowed keep notes of the disturbances so keep a notebook handy and note down all instances.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Have you tried telling them to stop and if that fails report them to the management company? you are allowed keep notes of the disturbances so keep a notebook handy and note down all instances.


    Yes have asked them almost every second day to stop. Have reported them to management, who have sent letters to parents which have been ignored. A letter put up (not by me) on a communal noticeboard was taken down and destroyed. Aside from the intense annoyance of the whole thing, its also a safety issue. They go up and down a ramp in the complex on bikes and scooters which ends off as a kind of blindspot right beside the main car entrance. One of these days one of them will go right under a car :/ Also destroying trees and plants in the area, terrorising pets and caught one of them scaling our balcony a while back. The mother is a piece of work, came banging on the door more or less accusing me of being a pervert for recording her brats :/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Yes have asked them almost every second day to stop. Have reported them to management, who have sent letters to parents which have been ignored. A letter put up (not by me) on a communal noticeboard was taken down and destroyed. Aside from the intense annoyance of the whole thing, its also a safety issue. They go up and down a ramp in the complex on bikes and scooters which ends off as a kind of blindspot right beside the main car entrance. One of these days one of them will go right under a car :/ Also destroying trees and plants in the area, terrorising pets and caught one of them scaling our balcony a while back. The mother is a piece of work, came banging on the door more or less accusing me of being a pervert for recording her brats :/
    take notes of every time they are there, times dates and the number of them and what they are doing. pass copies of this to the management company every week or two weeks and remind them of their obligations towards you and their obligation regarding the anti social behaviour.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    I would tread very carefully when it comes to taking pictures/videos of kids to be honest...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    djimi wrote: »
    I would tread very carefully when it comes to taking pictures/videos of kids to be honest...

    Yeah I'm kind of regretting it now. I just got so angry with the whole thing, months of compaining etc and nothing done, so I figured if I got proof of them breaking the rules of the complex then something would have to be done. Of course now I may have simply given the mother a stick to beat me with :(


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,380 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    djimi wrote: »
    I would tread very carefully when it comes to taking pictures/videos of kids to be honest...

    I don't see why. If you are recording anti social behaviour in a public space then there should be no reason to be careful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    I don't see why. If you are recording anti social behaviour in a public space then there should be no reason to be careful.

    In this day and age all it takes is a rumor and and a life is ruined ,
    I'd thread very careful where minors are concerned


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,380 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    That is part of the problem. Everyone is treading carefully and noone does anything about the little s***s. I would film away. If I heard of a rumour about myself they would be quickly receiving a letter about slander from my solicitor.

    Should we discuss the mosquito again??;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Playing is a carpark isn't exactly antisocial behavior ,
    Is there any other tenants /owners backing up claims


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,380 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Gatling wrote: »
    Playing is a carpark isn't exactly antisocial behavior ,
    Is there any other tenants /owners backing up claims

    That is a fair point actually.
    Obviously scaling the balcony is not on and if you had it on camera then you could use it to inform the Gardai but I can't see anyone being too worried about kids playing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    That is a fair point actually.
    Obviously scaling the balcony is not on and if you had it on camera then you could use it to inform the Gardai but I can't see anyone being too worried about kids playing.

    A -total ejit to risk his life to climbing the balcony the Gardai won't exactly do much in that type of situation
    I'm sure the management company would take likely to getting sued by some ejits mother ,


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    That is part of the problem. Everyone is treading carefully and noone does anything about the little s***s. I would film away. If I heard of a rumour about myself they would be quickly receiving a letter about slander from my solicitor.

    Should we discuss the mosquito again??;)

    Suing for slander is not going to do any good when it gets out that you have been seen taking pictures/videos of children. In this day and age it is a very stupid thing to risk doing; no matter how innocent it might be or what the situation, it is not worth the potential fallout.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Gatling wrote: »
    Playing is a carpark isn't exactly antisocial behavior ,
    Is there any other tenants /owners backing up claims


    Its not a car park its a communal garden area for resident's quiet enjoyment. It's actually against the complex rules for them even to be there unsupervised. It's against the rules for them to be playing ball too. There are others who have complained too - the first time I called the management company I heard something along the lines of "ah yes, those kids again". Perfectly good park around the corner, never seen them in it. Mother prefers to turf them out and treat the garden as a playground. Someone else left up a note a while ago about them, that was removed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Its not a car park its a communal garden area for resident's quiet enjoyment. It's actually against the complex rules for them even to be there unsupervised. It's against the rules for them to be playing ball too. There are others who have complained too - the first time I called the management company I heard something along the lines of "ah yes, those kids again". Perfectly good park around the corner, never seen them in it. Mother prefers to turf them out and treat the garden as a playground. Someone else left up a note a while ago about them, that was removed.

    If its against the rules then keep barraging the management company with calls, emails and letters until they get it sorted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    djimi wrote: »
    Suing for slander is not going to do any good when it gets out that you have been seen taking pictures/videos of children. In this day and age it is a very stupid thing to risk doing; no matter how innocent it might be or what the situation, it is not worth the potential fallout.

    Yeah thats what I'm worried about! Mud sticks and all that :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Its not a car park its a communal garden area for resident's quiet enjoyment. It's actually against the complex rules for them even to be there unsupervised. It's against the rules for them to be playing ball too. There are others who have complained too - the first time I called the management company I heard something along the lines of "ah yes, those kids again". Perfectly good park around the corner, never seen them in it. Mother prefers to turf them out and treat the garden as a playground. Someone else left up a note a while ago about them, that was removed.

    They live there so there entitled to use the space as you stated above for residents (quite) enjoyment, sounds like the management company don't see much of an issue


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Gatling wrote: »
    They live there so there entitled to use the space as you stated above for residents (quite) enjoyment, sounds like the management company don't see much of an issue

    The complex rules specifically state that children are not allowed in the communal area unsupervised, so regardless of whether or not they live there, they are still breaking the rules. Management are constantly sending out letters, and have said in the past that they would press for evictions if we named those involved. At the time I didn't as I was afraid of the backlash tbh


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    The complex rules specifically state that children are not allowed in the communal area unsupervised, so regardless of whether or not they live there, they are still breaking the rules. Management are constantly sending out letters, and have said in the past that they would press for evictions if we named those involved. At the time I didn't as I was afraid of the backlash tbh

    That's just nit picking ,
    Imagine the same kids stuck inside playing because complaint's about them playing outside ,
    I'm sure people would complain even more ,


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Gatling wrote: »
    That's just nit picking ,
    Imagine the same kids stuck inside playing because complaint's about them playing outside ,
    I'm sure people would complain even more ,

    Er...no...those are the rules.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    I wonder if its not too late to talk to her, though she'd probably take the head off me if I knocked on her door... Seems ridiculous at this stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    What issues exactly are they causing by playing in the area? Are they causing damage? Banging balls off your windows etc?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    djimi wrote: »
    What issues exactly are they causing by playing in the area? Are they causing damage? Banging balls off your windows etc?

    The noise is the worst I suppose. Of course we dont expect complete silence, there is give and take and general apartment living means there's always coming and going and whatnot. But their noise levels are unbelievable. In fact, it defies logic how things so small can make so much noise :D It was particularly bad during the fine spell. We couldnt even leave the balcony door open in the heat because the noise levels were so high. There is the constant going up and down the ramp outside on skateboards and scooters which is also noisy. They jam open the fire doors so they can come in and out. I dont mind that so much as we're not near the corridors but I have spoken to other residents who have complained about them running up and down stairwells and corridors, banging on doors etc. We haven't experienced this. They have destroyed some of the shrubs outside by kicking balls into them, and climbing the trees. They often kick balls into parked cars etc (as spaces are organised around the green). Again, our parking is underground so not a direct issue for us but for others.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Sounds like you need to get the management company to pull the finger out and get it sorted. Sending letters is obviously not doing the trick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭sheesh


    yes kids playing unsupervised is a breach of the apartment block rules which is a breach of contract. Do you know if the family in question are tenents or owner occupiers? if tenents you through the managment company can threaten the owner with breach of contract. Its your space too. could you afford a solicitors letter to the managment company. This is one of the things you are paying them for.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    djimi wrote: »
    Sounds like you need to get the management company to pull the finger out and get it sorted. Sending letters is obviously not doing the trick.

    Tempted to move at this stage, but the rent is so reasonable (and looking around, is it just me or have rents gone up??)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    caught one of them scaling our balcony a while back.
    I'd find myself with a basin of water that I just had to throw out the window...


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,380 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I find myself caught in 2 minds on this one. On one hand I can see it is annoying you whereas on the other I think the kids should have a right to play in the open spaces (why else are they for after all).

    It is a shame that private apartments do not have the play areas that you see in so many of the council flat complexes.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    It is a shame that private apartments do not have the play areas that you see in so many of the council flat complexes.

    Absolutely. Whilst Council flats are normally designed with children in mind, the private complexes were not. They will have to adapt though as families are stuck there unable to move on, and compromises and common sense approaches will have to be adopted.


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