Dog food

tk123

Grand you can hire us all

kylith

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I've posted before about how dogs seemed to live far longer when they were eating our cast offs, what was left on the table, the fat from the meat and the stuff gone off from fridge, along with maybe a can of wet food if there wasn't enough leftovers. Dogs that I grew up with in the 70s/80s lived far longer than the dogs that are around today.

That depends on the dog, though. I have a ~13 year old terrier at home who shows no signs of stopping, though she's slowed down a bit. She's definitely in better shape than my childhood terrier who, at the same age, was going deaf and blind, and was developing fatty lumps.

I would suggest that the state of breeding these days would be a contributory factor to dogs having a decreased relative life span. Not too long ago if you wanted a pet you generally just got a mutt and pedigrees were either for the rich or people who had a use for the breed. These days, with puppy farms (battery farming, really), pedigrees are being churned out with no respect for health, so their lifespan is likely influenced by substandard parents coupled with unsanitary conditions in puppyhood.

borderlinemeath

kylith wrote: »

That depends on the dog, though. I have a ~13 year old terrier at home who shows no signs of stopping, though she's slowed down a bit. She's definitely in better shape than my childhood terrier who, at the same age, was going deaf and blind, and was developing fatty lumps.

I would suggest that the state of breeding these days would be a contributory factor to dogs having a decreased relative life span. Not too long ago if you wanted a pet you generally just got a mutt and pedigrees were either for the rich or people who had a use for the breed. These days, with puppy farms (battery farming, really), pedigrees are being churned out with no respect for health, so their lifespan is likely influenced by substandard parents coupled with unsanitary conditions in puppyhood.

Absolutely, the inbreeding certainly isn't helping lifespan at all.

But I do think that feeding processed dry food long term is a large contributing factor. As humans we're told to eat fresh and healthy food for our own being and studies for humans have shown that processed foods can lead to obesity, diabetes, liver function, heart disease....etc etc. So why is it any different for dogs?

tk123

So as some of you know from my distress posts in other threads Lucy, our 14 week old puppy had a bad tummy the last week. From day one with us she's been on raw/barf (gRaw to be exact as we got a bogof deal he had) and from day one she's had great poos. As well as the raw she's had various treats - barking heads puppy food, puppy bonios, marmite, peanut butter, fruit and veg, ham, hotdogs and a small amount of scraps to see how she got on - eg a teaspoon of mash and roast chicken etc etc

Last week she went to daycare with her luncbox of gRaw and was given that as well as Luath dry food for treats. 11:30pm on Monday night she go sick in her crate and it all went downhill from there - only this morning the poops have started to resemble what I expect poo to look like.

From chatting to a few puppy owners and seeing what my friend's dog's do it's made me realize that most people aren't aware of what healthy poo looks like. They think it's normal for it to be sloppy and stinky or for a dog to have a 'sensitive tummy'. That wound me up no end on sat when somebody who's pup was producting a pile that would put a baby elephant to shame said that when I mentioned that Luath didn't agree with either of my dogs. I can say hand on heart that they don't have senstive tummies - point in case was big boy like a pelican yesterday swallowing a fish 2 or 3 feet long WHOLE and showing no signs of upset lol!

So I guess to sum up my rambling - I don't think a lot of people are aware of when a food doesn't suit their dog and go with what they hear from vets or 'professionals' - it's normal for dogs to have sensitive tummies, it's normal for a handful of dry food to make a dog sick and not much you can do about it because the food in question is 'hollistic/hypoallergenic'?

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

So as some of you know from my distress posts in other threads Lucy, our 14 week old puppy had a bad tummy the last week. From day one with us she's been on raw/barf (gRaw to be exact as we got a bogof deal he had) and from day one she's had great poos. As well as the raw she's had various treats - barking heads puppy food, puppy bonios, marmite, peanut butter, fruit and veg, ham, hotdogs and a small amount of scraps to see how she got on - eg a teaspoon of mash and roast chicken etc etc

Last week she went to daycare with her luncbox of gRaw and was given that as well as Luath dry food for treats. 11:30pm on Monday night she go sick in her crate and it all went downhill from there - only this morning the poops have started to resemble what I expect poo to look like.

From chatting to a few puppy owners and seeing what my friend's dog's do it's made me realize that most people aren't aware of what healthy poo looks like. They think it's normal for it to be sloppy and stinky or for a dog to have a 'sensitive tummy'. That wound me up no end on sat when somebody who's pup was producting a pile that would put a baby elephant to shame said that when I mentioned that Luath didn't agree with either of my dogs. I can say hand on heart that they don't have senstive tummies - point in case was big boy like a pelican yesterday swallowing a fish 2 or 3 feet long WHOLE and showing no signs of upset lol!

So I guess to sum up my rambling - I don't think a lot of people are aware of when a food doesn't suit their dog and go with what they hear from vets or 'professionals' - it's normal for dogs to have sensitive tummies, it's normal for a handful of dry food to make a dog sick and not much you can do about it because the food in question is 'hollistic/hypoallergenic'?

+1
The amount of owners I speak to and say to them that their dogs poos are loose and very big considering the amount of food they eat is huge. And these dogs are doing poos the size of babies arms! Imagine we were going to the loo like that, we'd be heading straight for the doctors for tests to see did we have any intolerances or IBS or whatever, but owners are taking their vets word for it and buying what is for sale in the surgeries.

One thing that really bugs me as well is the use/overuse of the word 'hypoallergenic'. Consumers see this and think "Great, this is the best, it will suit my dog, it's for sensitive stomachs" It's a marketers dream buzzword, along with 'enriched', 'fortified' and 'premium':P. All hypoallergenic means is that it may be less likely to cause a reaction, but no certainty whatsoever. Honestly, I would dread having a dog with a sensitive stomach or any intolerances and be stuck trying to find a dry food to suit. It's a minefield of misinformation!

muddypaws

I can only really speak from my own experiences, but so many husky owners think their dogs have sensitive stomachs, when really its just that they are overfeeding them. Without being too graphic, but I'm sure we can all relate to having a huge blow out meal, and how that affects our own toilet habits, feeling of being bloated and then getting rid of the excess. I know that sibes eat less than most other breeds, but I do wonder how many dogs are overfed, and then what isn't digested obviously has to come out the other end. So maybe, because raw feeders tend to put more care into what they feed, and I don't mean that as a criticism of dry feeders at all, but I think raw feeders do tend to weigh more, and look at exactly how much food their dog is getting, maybe their dogs are getting the right amount that they need to digest properly etc. Which could then be a contributing factor perhaps in the state of the poos?

Although yes, what is in a dry food is definitely a contributor, as I've found when the dogs have eaten different brands.

SillyMangoX

For those that don't know how a normal poop should look :P

borderlinemeath

SillyMangoX wrote: »

For those that don't know how a normal poop should look :P

I actually read that to the bottom and thought "who would give their dogs alcohol or recreational drugs?"

Doh, it's for humans:D

SillyMangoX

Haha yes discount the last one, the rest are the same :P Though you never know what a dog might get upto

SillyMangoX

Here is the veterinary version :P

boomerang

muddypaws wrote: »

So DBB, you would see the issue of changing foods and stool problems being due to the cereals and/or additives in the kibble? There are obviously raw foods that you can buy in processed form, probably without the cereals, does that affect dogs the same way as changing kibble?

I have no issues with any particular brand of kibble but what puzzles me is why so many dogs are intolerant to various brands. Switch from one to another and there's runny poos and upset stomachs. With all the scientific research it still seems to me that the kibble is not suited to a lot of dogs, if it was, why do they get sick changing over?

I think dogs (and cats) have problems with an abrupt switch from one brand to another because they have eaten nothing but one brand for so long... Which to me, isn't natural. I love The Whole Dog Journal and their researchers recommend that if you do feed kibble, change the brand as often as possible. One reason being, that you are not giving your dog too much or too little of a certain micronutrient or nutriceutical over time. I think that makes a lot of sense, when there doesn't seem to be academic consensus on exactly how much vitamin supplementation dogs need in commercial foods and the producers seem to err on the side of caution and actually over-supplement, to compensate for nutrient loss during cooking/extruding.

Dogs that are used to a lot of variety in their diet have far fewer problems with the addition of new foods. It applies to cats, too! Our feral cats are so used to scavenging, first of all, before we get involved, and then getting a mix of different commercial brands depending on what's donated, that they don't suffer from irritated tums in the same way our foster cats and kittens do, if we were to change their food suddenly.

My greyhound was a scavenging street dog for over a year and still has an iron constitution - nothing knocks her tum out, whatever she occasionally manages to rummage from the bin or the next-door neighbours!

My dog Boo had a pretty varied homecooked diet for the last three years of her life and I think in consequence didn't have tummy upset when new foods (including prescription renal food) were introduced occasionally.

bluecherry74

I was eating.

SillyMangoX wrote: »

Here is the veterinary version :P

Jess's always looks like Score 2 which I presume is grand, but Henry's is often like Score 3. Not sure if that's particularly bad? He's always been the most problematic when it comes to diet.

kylith

Ra's don't fit any on that chart, she poos little egg shaped ones like #1, normal in overall volume but in 4 or 5 'eggs', but has no signs of constipation. She always has pooed like that, so I think it's just whatever way her system is set up.

borderlinemeath

boomerang wrote: »

I think dogs (and cats) have problems with an abrupt switch from one brand to another because they have eaten nothing but one brand for so long... Which to me, isn't natural. I love The Whole Dog Journal and their researchers recommend that if you do feed kibble, change the brand as often as possible. One reason being, that you are not giving your dog too much or too little of a certain micronutrient or nutriceutical over time. I think that makes a lot of sense, when there doesn't seem to be academic consensus on exactly how much vitamin supplementation dogs need in commercial foods and the producers seem to err on the side of caution and actually over-supplement, to compensate for nutrient loss during cooking/extruding.

Dogs that are used to a lot of variety in their diet have far fewer problems with the addition of new foods. It applies to cats, too! Our feral cats are so used to scavenging, first of all, before we get involved, and then getting a mix of different commercial brands depending on what's donated, that they don't suffer from irritated tums in the same way our foster cats and kittens do, if we were to change their food suddenly.

My greyhound was a scavenging street dog for over a year and still has an iron constitution - nothing knocks her tum out, whatever she occasionally manages to rummage from the bin or the next-door neighbours!

My dog Boo had a pretty varied homecooked diet for the last three years of her life and I think in consequence didn't have tummy upset when new foods (including prescription renal food) were introduced occasionally.

I think I said earlier on in this thread that I thought that sticking religiously to the one food 'fine tunes' the dogs gut:).
My pair can eat anything, Benson was abandoned so scavanged at some point and then he was in rescue getting various donated kibbles. Coco always got a bit of variety in her diet and whatever was left on our plates too.