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Ending a Lease Early - Advice

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  • 12-08-2013 12:47pm
    #1
    dave_live
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭


    Hi All, I hope someone can help me.

    I moved into an apartment in Dublin ~30 days ago with 3 friends (1 friend a couple). So there are 4 of us in total. We all signed a 12 month lease.

    The couple have just split up and with 1 of them now moving out, it looks like the 3 of us that remain will not be able (or want) to cover the entire rent ourselves.

    I'm wondering what our options are in this case? I'd imagine that we will lose our deposit and the only way to get compensation is to get it from the couple themselves i.e to cover our lost depost? Is there anyway that the 3 of us can stay and blame it on the 4th person as they signed the lease, and are the only one leaving (& breaking it).

    I hope this makes sense and I'm pretty sure we'll end up losing our deposit, but i figured it was worth asking you guys.

    Thanks


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    #2
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    your post isn't very clear.

    Are you all on the lease ?
    Is there a break clause ?
    Who paid the deposit to the LL ?
    Did you all sign separate leases ?

    From your opening post it sounds like your not on the lease and therefore and only a licencee, In which case you would not be bound legally by the lease.

    However that would also sound like you didn't pay a deposit to the LL perhaps to one of your housemates who then paid the LL ? In that case the LL doesn't have your deposit as you never gave them one the person who signed the lease has it and it is therefore them you need to chase to get it back.

    Lots of assumptions here mind you.


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    #3
    dave_live
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭dave_live


    Thanks for the reply.

    All 4 of us signed the same lease. I paid the entire deposit because it was my bank account that was linked with the Letting Agent's. The other 3 people transferred their deposits to me.

    There isn't a break clause that i can see. Seems to be no mention of it at all.

    Cheers for your input
    D3PO wrote: »
    your post isn't very clear.

    Are you all on the lease ?
    Is there a break clause ?
    Who paid the deposit to the LL ?
    Did you all sign separate leases ?

    From your opening post it sounds like your not on the lease and therefore and only a licencee, In which case you would not be bound legally by the lease.

    However that would also sound like you didn't pay a deposit to the LL perhaps to one of your housemates who then paid the LL ? In that case the LL doesn't have your deposit as you never gave them one the person who signed the lease has it and it is therefore them you need to chase to get it back.

    Lots of assumptions here mind you.


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    #4
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    well if you all signed the lease your jointly libel. You cant just decide to move out and not pay at the loss of the deposit.

    That means the 3 of you need to pay the full rent or get the person who moved out to keep paying their 1/4 of it.

    Your options are

    a) Find somebody to reassign the lease to, one the LL / agent is agreeable to them taking over the lease you can all move out and get your deposit back

    b) Find somebody to move in to cover the rental shortfall

    c) Pay the rent between the 3 of you remaining

    d) Make the person who moved out know they are still expected to pay their share and make them do the same (realistically not gonna happen)

    Outside of those options you have no legal way of sorting this. You may be able to leave with some notice and forfeiture of the deposit but the LL doesn't have to do this if they don't want to although most will.


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    #5
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    dave_live wrote: »
    Hi All, I hope someone can help me.

    I moved into an apartment in Dublin ~30 days ago with 3 friends (1 friend a couple). So there are 4 of us in total. We all signed a 12 month lease.

    The couple have just split up and with 1 of them now moving out, it looks like the 3 of us that remain will not be able (or want) to cover the entire rent ourselves.

    I'm wondering what our options are in this case? I'd imagine that we will lose our deposit and the only way to get compensation is to get it from the couple themselves i.e to cover our lost depost? Is there anyway that the 3 of us can stay and blame it on the 4th person as they signed the lease, and are the only one leaving (& breaking it).

    I hope this makes sense and I'm pretty sure we'll end up losing our deposit, but i figured it was worth asking you guys.

    Thanks
    D3PO wrote: »
    your post isn't very clear.

    Are you all on the lease ?
    Is there a break clause ?
    Who paid the deposit to the LL ?
    Did you all sign separate leases ?

    From your opening post it sounds like your not on the lease and therefore and only a licencee, In which case you would not be bound legally by the lease.

    However that would also sound like you didn't pay a deposit to the LL perhaps to one of your housemates who then paid the LL ? In that case the LL doesn't have your deposit as you never gave them one the person who signed the lease has it and it is therefore them you need to chase to get it back.

    Lots of assumptions here mind you.

    OP clearly says that all four of them signed the lease together.

    I'm guessing that with only 3 of them living there now they are unable to pay the rent. OP you should contact the Landlord and explain the situation to them, Its the only way to evaluate your situation and options.


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    #6
    dave_live
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭dave_live


    Thanks for the advice. Both of you! Much appreciated.

    I'm going to see what the LL says and then make a plan from there.

    Dave


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    #7
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Realistically youre options are either reassign the remainder of the lease and move out, or see if the landlord will let you move a fourth person in. They dont have to agree to the latter, but they have no real choice in the reassignment (if they dont agree to it then legally you get your deposit back).


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    #8
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    djimi wrote: »
    Realistically youre options are either reassign the remainder of the lease and move out, or see if the landlord will let you move a fourth person in. They dont have to agree to the latter, but they have no real choice in the reassignment (if they dont agree to it then legally you get your deposit back).


    That makes it sound a little easier than it is. the old tenants have to find the new tenants and they have to be acceptable as tenants. The old tenants will have to pay for any agent's or legal fees involved in the assignment of which there is bound to be a few.


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    #9
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    valleyoftheunos wrote: »
    [/B]

    That makes it sound a little easier than it is. the old tenants have to find the new tenants and they have to be acceptable as tenants. The old tenants will have to pay for any agent's or legal fees involved in the assignment of which there is bound to be a few.

    What fees would they have to pay? PRTB registration maybe?


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    #10
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    djimi wrote: »
    What fees would they have to pay? PRTB registration maybe?

    Admin fees from the letting agent for sorting the new lease perhaps, daft advertisement fees perhaps.


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    #11
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    D3PO wrote: »
    Admin fees from the letting agent for sorting the new lease perhaps, daft advertisement fees perhaps.

    Tenant sorts out the advertisement fees anyway.

    Not really sure what involvement the letting agent would need to have unless they manage the property for an absentee landlord maybe, but Im sure whatever pittance amount it would cost them to print out a new copy of a lease to be signed would be covered by their annual charge anyway?


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    #12
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    djimi wrote: »
    Tenant sorts out the advertisement fees anyway.

    Not really sure what involvement the letting agent would need to have unless they manage the property for an absentee landlord maybe, but Im sure whatever pittance amount it would cost them to print out a new copy of a lease to be signed would be covered by their annual charge anyway?

    I wouldn't think so, if a letting agent has to go vet new potential tenants, go out to deliver a new lease, inspect the property before the transfer of tenant etc Id suspect this is outside the terms of their contract with the LL and would therefore incur a charge.

    I don't know for sure I'm just speculating but they aren't the most helpful of sorts so if they though they could cream an extra few quid off the top Im sure they wouldn't be slow about doing it.


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    #13
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    You could well be right; to be honest its not really something thats ever occured to me before about reassigning a lease. Nor has the PRTB registration charge either tbh.

    I guess the way Id be looking at it, even if there was an admin charge from the letting agent and the PRTB charge, what would it amount to; maybe €150-€200 in total? Its still better than losing the entirety of the deposit.


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    #14
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    oh I agree would still be financially the best way to deal with it. Just pointing out it wouldn't be without some level of expense


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    #15
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    djimi wrote: »
    You could well be right; to be honest its not really something thats ever occured to me before about reassigning a lease. Nor has the PRTB registration charge either tbh.

    I guess the way Id be looking at it, even if there was an admin charge from the letting agent and the PRTB charge, what would it amount to; maybe €150-€200 in total? Its still better than losing the entirety of the deposit.

    the terms of a lease I had in the past (in London admittedly) set out that the agents fee for changing a name on a lease was a weeks rent, which in our case was £550. I thought that was scandalous but it is indicative of the sort of fees and charges that can come up.

    I would think that the full cost of assigning a lease could easily be between €500 and €1000 assuming that it goes smoothly.

    EDIT: From the PRTB website its possible that no PRTB fees would be due on an assignment so €1000 would be unlikely but over €500 would still be possible I think.


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    #16
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    PRTB costs what, €90 to register? Not really sure where you are getting the rest from.

    I wouldnt base it on London charges either; I was shocked to find out that its quite normal in the UK for tenants to pay admin charges to the letting agent when moving into a propety, to the tune of several hundred quid in the cases I was reading :eek:


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    #17
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    valleyoftheunos wrote: »
    the terms of a lease I had in the past (in London admittedly) set out that the agents fee for changing a name on a lease was a weeks rent, which in our case was £550. I thought that was scandalous but it is indicative of the sort of fees and charges that can come up.

    I would think that the full cost of assigning a lease could easily be between €500 and €1000 assuming that it goes smoothly.

    EDIT: From the PRTB website its possible that no PRTB fees would be due on an assignment so €1000 would be unlikely but over €500 would still be possible I think.
    When a lease is assigned, there is basically only a change of name on the lease - the tenancy continues until its expiry date.

    Therefore there is no re-registration of the tenancy as no new tenancy has been created - just notify the PRTB of a change of tenant/s is all that is needed.

    However, all that takes time and time is money!


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    #18
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    odds_on wrote: »
    When a lease is assigned, there is basically only a change of name on the lease - the tenancy continues until its expiry date.

    Therefore there is no re-registration of the tenancy as no new tenancy has been created - just notify the PRTB of a change of tenant/s is all that is needed.

    However, all that takes time and time is money!

    yeah I realised that after I posted.

    I'm including in my figures advertising the property and agency fees. I would think that the agency fees could be quite substantial, vetting the new tenants and performing an inventory (in the even that it tis an entirely new group of tenants as suggested) and then drafting/providing the actual deed of assignment which depending on how it is done may or not be necessary. REgardless I would not be surprised to discover that there is a charge for each step of the process and that it is not minor. Just gettign an agent out to perform a valuation can cost up to E120.

    I'd love to get Ray Palmer's opinion on an assignment in such circumstances, he might also have a better idea of the costs involved.


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    #19
    sunnysoutheast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭sunnysoutheast


    djimi wrote: »
    I was shocked to find out that its quite normal in the UK for tenants to pay admin charges to the letting agent when moving into a propety, to the tune of several hundred quid in the cases I was reading :eek:

    Usually two weeks rent plus VAT.

    Also usually one week's rent plus VAT to issue a new lease after a year.


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