Waterford Airport moves a step closer towards runway extension

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

2. If TDs were stepping up to the mark we would now have Waterford University. And our City Status would be secure. And our Hospital and its services would be secure.

Stepping up the mark wasn't meant as a whole, it was about one specific aspect. I clarified that earlier, feel free to read back.

You know, technically speaking, the government didn't specify what type of University we were being given. So technically, they may very well argue that they have met the commitment. Technically. :pac: (For the record, I have no idea if this is the case, I don't agree with it, and I am not suggesting for one second its justifiable)

Personally, I don't agree with that at all and think its a complete let down. Part of me expected the let down because of the lobbying power that I am sure is there blocking any hope of another University but also the question mark over whether Ireland as a whole needs one. But I welcome, very cautiously and with a level of skepticism. Disappointing but I would hope that WIT could become a leader of this new type of university and bring a whole new level, positive level, to our education and workforce. That excites me, but obviously it needs to happen and not just be a commitment on paper / in theory.

3. It will push Waterford City up the scale, allowing greater access/more carriers/more holiday destinations. And no journeys to cork or Dublin.

As I said - great news.

o_O You are oddly positive, more so than me which is really odd! Are you aware that this isn't the hoped extension to bring in the big boys and open up the routes to compete with our neighbouring airports? So you will need to head up to Cork and Dublin still for a lot of flights?!

Its a small extension to facilitate slightly bigger aircraft. A small step, but an important step. One to welcome. Pat on the back to all those who lobbied and worked hard - not just politicians past and present.

sparkling sea

Waterford is dying and a complete rethink is needed now.

Our TDs should be focusing on the country but their county is in deep deep trouble.

Idealism and lack of reality, anti car policies and inaccessibilty, run down shops and bad planning have all gone along way towards the desertion of our city; many people are responsible but sadly no one is likely to be held accountable.

Everyone is very efficent but no one is effective; being efficent at something that is of no use is useless to Waterford.

Muilleann

Where exactly can you fly to from Waterford now?

Does it only serve UK destinations now?

Max Powers

sparkling sea wrote: »

Waterford is dying and a complete rethink is needed now.

Our TDs should be focusing on the country but their county is in deep deep trouble.

Idealism and lack of reality, anti car policies and inaccessibilty, run down shops and bad planning have all gone along way towards the desertion of our city; many people are responsible but sadly no one is likely to be held accountable.

Everyone is very efficent but no one is effective; being efficent at something that is of no use is useless to Waterford.

have you changed any of your own habits or done anything to try improve the situation for Waterford?

Odats

Muilleann wrote: »

Where exactly can you fly to from Waterford now?

Does it only serve UK destinations now?

AFAIK only Manchester and Birmingham with Flybe.

sparkling sea

Max Powers wrote: »

have you changed any of your own habits or done anything to try improve the situation for Waterford?

Flogging a dead horse, but I do all I can to support Waterford.

A complete over haul is needed, people with a proven track recorded are needed - we can't keep going the way we are, it's not working.

The City is dying and in need of a new life support machine and defending those who have brought Waterford to its knees is indefensible.

wellboytoo

Had a chat with a few of the guys in the Airport yesterday and the loads are massive on the two destinations 95% on some days which is good to hear.

Max Powers

sparkling sea wrote: »

Flogging a dead horse, but I do all I can to support Waterford.

A complete over haul is needed, people with a proven track recorded are needed - we can't keep going the way we are, it's not working.

The City is dying and in need of a new life support machine and defending those who have brought Waterford to its knees is indefensible.

like what? genuinely interested because most when asked are dumbfounded. dont have to be game changers but little things maybe if we all done would change things.
Waterford is in trouble because of years of neglect by successive govts. not just this one or this council. sure things could be done better across the country . lack of acccessability, i fail to see how this is significant
anti car policies, same again, not a big deal really.
bad planning, yeah examples of this nationwide, Waterford has been better than average on this front i think, not many Ghost estates etc.

Max Powers

wellboytoo wrote: »

Had a chat with a few of the guys in the Airport yesterday and the loads are massive on the two destinations 95% on some days which is good to hear.

that is great to hear.

sparkling sea

Max Powers wrote: »

like what? genuinely interested because most when asked are dumbfounded. dont have to be game changers but little things maybe if we all done would change things.
Waterford is in trouble because of years of neglect by successive govts. not just this one or this council. sure things could be done better across the country . lack of acccessability, i fail to see how this is significant
anti car policies, same again, not a big deal really.
bad planning, yeah examples of this nationwide, Waterford has been better than average on this front i think, not many Ghost estates etc.

Bad planning by bad planners who aren't voted in and have a job for life - huge problem here

If I can't source something locally I will press either and when available both the pay and collect at shop option rather then select home delivery or go to Kilkenny.

Many people can't afford to go the more expensive route at a time when every penny counts - the small things are what is stopping them from going bust

As someone who doesnt live in town and at times suffer with mobility issues, access to and parking in Waterford is a major issue and I know just from talking to people that accessibility and parking cost are a major deterrent for many, Waterford City seems to have anti car planning and policies. Its a running joke that people will only go to town when the traffic lights are broken, it takes to long otherwise. Lots of people have mobility issues, young children and/or don't live near enough to walk or just want to drive, etc - it should be easy for people not difficult and costly. The City has to serve a purpose too.

Any shop owner will happily acknowledge that footfall in Waterford City is very low, there are many reasons for this but accessibility and parking cost and liimited parking time are up there. Add to that the empty feeling and that fact that Waterford doesn't look great now. Don't get me started on the rates issue.

Max Powers

sparkling sea wrote: »

Bad planning by bad planners who aren't voted in and have a job for life - huge problem here

If I can't source something locally I will press either and when available both the pay and collect at shop option rather then select home delivery or go to Kilkenny.

Many people can't afford to go the more expensive route at a time when every penny counts - the small things are what is stopping them from going bust

As someone who doesnt live in town and at times suffer with mobility issues, access to and parking in Waterford is a major issue and I know just from talking to people that accessibility and parking cost are a major deterrent for many, Waterford City seems to have anti car planning and policies. Its a running joke that people will only go to town when the traffic lights are broken, it takes to long otherwise. Lots of people have mobility issues, young children and/or don't live near enough to walk or just want to drive, etc - it should be easy for people not difficult and costly. The City has to serve a purpose too.

Any shop owner will happily acknowledge that footfall in Waterford City is very low, there are many reasons for this but accessibility and parking cost and liimited parking time are up there. Add to that the empty feeling and that fact that Waterford doesn't look great now. Don't get me started on the rates issue.

i think the parking rates are grand in town, yeah it would be nice if it was even cheaper but we compare well with other places generally. Some great deals for parking around. I know someone could cite that they got parking in X for X€ but in general, €1p.h. and deals like 3.50 for day are great. sure it would be nice if it was cheaper of free but most have to pay for parking. i have young children with me so i think location of car parks is good.

re: anti car policies: i think a lot cite the 1-lane-ing of the Quay as anti-car. I should think the quay will run as smooth/bad as it always did once works are over. it was a mess with people parking in inner lane etc. nearly every progressive city in the world (exclude US maybe) is giving some power back to pedestrians and cyclists, it makes for a much nicer city.

rates...whats the problem there....only jokin!

(wow this response has nothing to do with the airport)

sparkling sea

Max Powers wrote: »

i think the parking rates are grand in town, yeah it would be nice if it was even cheaper but we compare well with other places generally. Some great deals for parking around. I know someone could cite that they got parking in X for X€ but in general, €1p.h. and deals like 3.50 for day are great. sure it would be nice if it was cheaper of free but most have to pay for parking. i have young children with me so i think location of car parks is good.

re: anti car policies: i think a lot cite the 1-lane-ing of the Quay as anti-car. I should think the quay will run as smooth/bad as it always did once works are over. it was a mess with people parking in inner lane etc. nearly every progressive city in the world (exclude US maybe) is giving some power back to pedestrians and cyclists, it makes for a much nicer city.

rates...whats the problem there....only jokin!

(wow this response has nothing to do with the airport)

I would disagree with you on parking prices, the metres are 1.80 an hour or 3.60 for 2 and the then you have to move or risk a fine. Am sure there are place you can park for 1 euro an hour but I haven't found them.
I also hope cheap parking will be given serious consideration when new routes are available at the airport, it could be the difference in customers selecting Waterford airport over others.

While Waterford is and will always be a city, our small population means we should stick with the progressive planning of towns which wish to bring the locals and their cars in and not try to emulate the new policies of cities with much larger populations and actual traffic problems. These cities have the attractions and infrastructure to attract people in, sadly our city dosen't appear to have these amenities. We should follow the example of somewhere like Kilkenny which appears to be alive and vibrant; shop owners and locals in Kilkenny refused to allow for heavy pedestrianisation m and it appears to have served them well and many Waterford people seem to like it too, maybe even a little to much for our city's own good.

I hope when these new airline routes are up and running the airport gets the support from the locals in all our neighbouring counties, but more than that I hope are city is revived enough to attract in tourists and get them staying and spending and enjoying Waterford.

Max Powers

sparkling sea wrote: »

I would disagree with you on parking prices, the metres are 1.80 an hour or 3.60 for 2 and the then you have to move or risk a fine. Am sure there are place you can park for 1 euro an hour but I haven't found them.
I also hope cheap parking will be given serious consideration when new routes are available at the airport, it could be the difference in customers selecting Waterford airport over others.

While Waterford is and will always be a city, our small population means we should stick with the progressive planning of towns which wish to bring the locals and their cars in and not try to emulate the new policies of cities with much larger populations and actual traffic problems. These cities have the attractions and infrastructure to attract people in, sadly our city dosen't appear to have these amenities. We should follow the example of somewhere like Kilkenny which appears to be alive and vibrant; shop owners and locals in Kilkenny refused to allow for heavy pedestrianisation m and it appears to have served them well and many Waterford people seem to like it too, maybe even a little to much for our city's own good.

I hope when these new airline routes are up and running the airport gets the support from the locals in all our neighbouring counties, but more than that I hope are city is revived enough to attract in tourists and get them staying and spending and enjoying Waterford.

thats a bummer if you cant use the €1ph car parks due to mobility issues. not so sure what you are saying about kk is true, the council want to facilitate cars up there by building a new road in the town and there is a big campaign against it.

CelticRambler

sparkling sea wrote: »

I hope when these new airline routes are up and running the airport gets the support from the locals in all our neighbouring counties, but more than that I hope are city is revived enough to attract in tourists and get them staying and spending and enjoying Waterford.

Therein lies the cause of so much failure. Waiting until someone else has done all the work before supporting it is no good. Ditto for all the infrastructure you can cram into the county - it serves no purpose on its own. The people of Waterford have to show their enthusiasm before anything will be done.

Notharrypotter is spot on: There is absolutely no point in anyone providing yet another commuter shuttle to London when the mainstream carriers can do it more efficiently from Dublin. Waterford will survive and could prosper if it finds it's niche. The niche is there, and ready to deliver flights, passengers, jobs, money, and excitement from continental Europe. But, as I referred to before on the specific Waterford Airport thread, the reaction from every single business and organisation in the county was ... silence, so the project was directed at Kerry instead.

However, the winds of change have blown through two of the local institutions, and finally a dialogue has been established and a meeting is planned for the very near future. Subject to confirmations all 'round, Waterford will be offered a limited proof-of-concept service to France, the proof being that all those who talk about "the people" wanting to see things happen will get off their backsides and make it happen.

By that, I don't mean TDs, councillors or airport management - I mean real, ordinary people. If you're in business, you'll have access to a "new" market of 3 million French customers. If you're in tourism what are you going to do to get those people over to Waterford? There are half a million school children learning English at the French end - who's going to jump in with an unbeatable offer for them? If you're in food production, art & design, IT or another transportable service, what effort are you going to put into selling your product in France?

None of that needs an extension to the runway. But it does need people in Waterford to use their imagination and to learn how to say "Great! Here's what I'd like to do ..."

sunnysoutheast

CelticRambler wrote: »

Therein lies the cause of so much failure. Waiting until someone else has done all the work before supporting it is no good. Ditto for all the infrastructure you can cram into the county - it serves no purpose on its own. The people of Waterford have to show their enthusiasm before anything will be done.

Notharrypotter is spot on: There is absolutely no point in anyone providing yet another commuter shuttle to London when the mainstream carriers can do it more efficiently from Dublin. Waterford will survive and could prosper if it finds it's niche. The niche is there, and ready to deliver flights, passengers, jobs, money, and excitement from continental Europe. But, as I referred to before on the specific Waterford Airport thread, the reaction from every single business and organisation in the county was ... silence, so the project was directed at Kerry instead.

However, the winds of change have blown through two of the local institutions, and finally a dialogue has been established and a meeting is planned for the very near future. Subject to confirmations all 'round, Waterford will be offered a limited proof-of-concept service to France, the proof being that all those who talk about "the people" wanting to see things happen will get off their backsides and make it happen.

By that, I don't mean TDs, councillors or airport management - I mean real, ordinary people. If you're in business, you'll have access to a "new" market of 3 million French customers. If you're in tourism what are you going to do to get those people over to Waterford? There are half a million school children learning English at the French end - who's going to jump in with an unbeatable offer for them? If you're in food production, art & design, IT or another transportable service, what effort are you going to put into selling your product in France?

None of that needs an extension to the runway. But it does need people in Waterford to use their imagination and to learn how to say "Great! Here's what I'd like to do ..."

Can you let us know how successful your idea was in Kerry?

I disagree with the assumption that a London service is unworkable, BTW. The Luton route was doing fine until Stobart moved it to Southend.

7upfree

CelticRambler wrote: »

"Great! Here's what I'd like to do ..."

Try saying that to the Council.........

CelticRambler

7upfree wrote: »

Try saying that to the Council.........

Jeeeez .... It's not the council's job to make local businesses wake up.

The airport is open.
The airport's runway is long enough.
There are aircraft ready to fly in.
There is a proposal to transport passengers and goods into and out of the region.

There is nothing the Council can do if local businesses REFUSE to get involved. E.g. One "well respected" local food supplier with a real-life and online store, contacted by e-mail and asked to source and deliver 500kg of packaged produce to the airport twice weekly, year 'round. No answer. Follow-up 'phone call - "don't think we got the message". Sent again. Follow-up call - "it's been passed to the manager". No further contact.

Contrast with email sent to Kildare-based food company: response within 4 hours - "Great idea. How about we also organise restaurant visits, food tours, site visits for catering/agri-business students?"

Kildare, 1 goal and 3 points, Waterford nil. And Dublin Airport gets the import-export traffic.

CelticRambler

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Can you let us know how successful your idea was in Kerry?

I disagree with the assumption that a London service is unworkable, BTW. The Luton route was doing fine until Stobart moved it to Southend.

Kerry : it is (and always will be) a work in progress. So far, it's been very successful, i.e. building up demand so that there's a market for passengers and freight. First visitors will be delivered in October as part of a nationwide tour. A second airport in France has asked (begged) to be included in the network as they've had no joy getting flights to Ireland from any other carrier. We have local partners in the sectors catering, education, accommodation, food industry, event management, adventure tourism, eco/green tourism, IT, finance and music&dance (it's Kerry! ) Some of those came through boards.ie, others were recommendations; all are private individuals who check and reply to e-mails.

London : I'm not saying it's unworkable; rather it's not the right proposal. Waterford Airport and any operator would be competing directly with Dublin/Cork and the operators there, so the route will always be at the mercy of shareholders and a fickle public. Give the people of Ireland something they can't get anywhere else instead of nibbling crumbs from someone else's cake.

notharrypotter

The following is a lift from another forum and it gives an interesting insight into how Airlines structure their seat pricing for a route

It doesn't really work like that, Nick. There's this thing called revenue management.

So for example on the Q400, maybe (I'm making up these numbers) the first 20 seats were sold at £40 one-way, the next 20 at £60, the next 20 at £80 and so on. If there were 30 passengers a flight on average, the majority of them would in all probability have paid the lower fares.

On a 31-seater D328, things will be different, of course because the aircraft is smaller but also because the cost per seat is higher, so the average fare needs to be higher. So maybe there'll only be 5 seats at £40, then 5 at £60, then 10 at £80. The average fare across 30 passengers on a 31-seater aircraft will be a lot more than the average fare across 30 passengers on a 78-seater. And unless airline passengers are insensitive to price [IMG]http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:<a class=outboundlink data-outboundlink=http://www.boards.ie/out?f=475&amp;url=aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRnd3dy5wcHJ1bmUub3JnJTJGZ2V0JTJGaW1hZ2VzJTJGc21pbGllcyUyRnllZWVzLmdpZg==&amp;h=9f751 href=http://www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif target=_blank ><a class=outboundlink data-outboundlink=http://www.boards.ie/out?f=482&url=aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRnd3dy5wcHJ1bmUub3JnJTJGZ2V0JTJGaW1hZ2VzJTJGc21pbGllcyUyRnllZWVzLmdpZg==&h=9f751 href=http://www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif target=_blank >[/img]www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif</a></a> a higher average price means lower average demand.

In other words, if you had an average of 30 passengers a flight on a 78-seater and you switch to a 31 seater, you won't have an average of 30 passengers, because the fares on offer will be higher so the demand will be lower.

(And even more basically, even if the fares were magically the same, you still wouldn't have an average of 30 passengers. That figure is an average across different passenger loads, for example if five flights carried 10, 30, 25, 50, and 35 passengers the average is 30. If the highest possible number of passengers in a flight is 31 rather than 78, your average is going to be a lot smaller.)

Link to info posted above
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/198333-loganair-16.html

Post 314 refers

b757

notharrypotter wrote: »

The following is a lift from another forum and it gives an interesting insight into how Airlines structure their seat pricing for a route


Link to info posted above
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/198333-loganair-16.html

Post 314 refers

When I got the email for this post I was thinking I read this somewhere else.. :P