Slapping/Smacking Children:Regional variations in practice and acceptability

Kettleson

My 11 year old girl recently spent a week in the north where she was very shocked to see on 2 separate occasions, children being slapped by their parents.

One instance, back of head, the other instance across back of legs. She had never seen that before.

I then recalled the last time I seen a parent slap one of his children, he was from the north. And similarly a few days ago I heard a man threaten to "beat the hell" out of his young daughter, also from the north.

However, has anyone else noticed regional variations on the toleration and practice of child slapping/smacking?

Dfmnoc

I believe we should bring back slapping, Majority of kids are out of control these days.

Mr Benevolent

Dfmnoc wrote: »

Majority of kids are out of control these days.

Showing your naivety there. They were saying the same thing 3000 years ago.

It always amazes me how people came blithely trot out such rubbish without engaging the smallest part of their brain.

RachaelVO

I've never notice anything regional about it. I've seen it in every province, and in a few countries. I don't think it actually achieves anything, but some parents obviously do.

I've said it to them when we're messing alright... along the lines of "I'll bate ya when I get ya..." they think thats hilarious! Best way I've found of disciplining them is taking their stuff away, that's their currency and that works for me.

TBH though, I don't criticise any parent for giving their kids the odd slap. There's a helluva difference between the odd slap and a beating. Believe it or not there are "rules" on giving your child a slap. Like not using an implement, using an open hand, all that sort of thing.

seamus

Dfmnoc wrote: »

Majority of kids are out of control these days.

Pretty sure when they were beating kids black and blue that people were saying the same thing. "A good day's work down the mines will sort them out, no respect for their elders, they don't".

Physical punishment is not proven to have any kind of deterrent effect.

"When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint".
Hesiod, 8th century BC

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato, 4th Century BC

"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint... As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
Attributed to Peter the Hermit, AD 1274

If one thing is constant it's that as you get older you become increasingly forgetful of who you were when you were young. Adults have been complaining about young people since humans have been able to communicate.

sillysmiles

Kettleson wrote: »

I'm not trying to stir up a debate on child slapping as its totally, deplorable, unacceptable and I believe, a potential criminal act.

That's one way to try to not stir up a debate.

Ush1

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

Showing your naivety there. They were saying the same thing 3000 years ago.

It always amazes me how people came blithely trot out such rubbish without engaging the smallest part of their brain.

Policemen are shorter and younger, plus too many fardiners around.

Kettleson

RachaelVO wrote: »

I've never notice anything regional about it. I've seen it in every province, and in a few countries. I don't think it actually achieves anything, but some parents obviously do.

I've said it to them when we're messing alright... along the lines of "I'll bate ya when I get ya..." they think thats hilarious! Best way I've found of disciplining them is taking their stuff away, that's their currency and that works for me.

TBH though, I don't criticise any parent for giving their kids the odd slap. There's a helluva difference between the odd slap and a beating. Believe it or not there are "rules" on giving your child a slap. Like not using an implement, using an open hand, all that sort of thing.

Thanks for that. Specifically interested in the regional opinions.

And meanwhile in adult world, if you lay a finger on another person, it's assault. And even a threat of intention "I'll beat you" is a verbal assault.

Would be interested in any links you have on those "rules" you mentioned.

RachaelVO

seamus wrote: »

Pretty sure when they were beating kids black and blue that people were saying the same thing. "A good day's work down the mines will sort them out, no respect for their elders, they don't".

Physical punishment is not proven to have any kind of deterrent effect.

"When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint".
Hesiod, 8th century BC

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato, 4th Century BC

"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint... As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
Attributed to Peter the Hermit, AD 1274

If one thing is constant it's that as you get older you become increasingly forgetful of who you were when you were young. Adults have been complaining about young people since humans have been able to communicate.

Love those quotes, perceptions of youth haven't changed one little bit from generation to generation.

Kettleson

sillysmiles wrote: »

That's one way to try to not stir up a debate.

Yes indeed, I had considered that. Perhaps I should delete that from the post?

o1s1n

Dfmnoc wrote: »

I believe we should bring back slapping, Majority of kids are out of control these days.

If you are involved at all with teaching and education, you will notice that the there is a direct correlation between the most unruly kids and those who are smacked and hit by their parents. Smacking does not fix this.

They're hit by their parents and then think that violence is a way of solving issues, so go around hitting the other kids.

I know there are instances where parents get a shock (their kid runs out on the road or something) and they resort to smacking; that's what I think the whole practice comes down to. Parents having a lack of control on a situation, have no clue how to deal with it, so resort to something fairly primitive.

Kettleson

RachaelVO wrote: »

I've never notice anything regional about it. I've seen it in every province, and in a few countries. I don't think it actually achieves anything, but some parents obviously do.

I've said it to them when we're messing alright... along the lines of "I'll bate ya when I get ya..." they think thats hilarious! Best way I've found of disciplining them is taking their stuff away, that's their currency and that works for me.

TBH though, I don't criticise any parent for giving their kids the odd slap. There's a helluva difference between the odd slap and a beating. Believe it or not there are "rules" on giving your child a slap. Like not using an implement, using an open hand, all that sort of thing.

The thing that made me think, was that my 11 year old daughter had never seen a child being smacked until she went to another region. Otherwise I would not have thought it of any significance.

anncoates

Kettleson wrote: »

I'm not trying to stir up a debate on child slapping

Kettleson wrote: »

Child slapping (is a) totally, deplorable, unacceptable and I believe, a potential criminal act.

I see.

Dfmnoc

Kettleson wrote: »

Yes indeed, I had considered that. Perhaps I should delete that from the post?

You cant delete that or my post will look out of place

ceadaoin.

Dfmnoc wrote: »

I believe we should bring back slapping, Majority of kids are out of control these days.

Get a grip, no they aren't! Unless you are one of those people who think that children should never open their mouths in public or be allowed anywhere besides a playground or park.

Kettleson

anncoates wrote: »

I see.

I have deleted my opinion.

SpaceTime

There probably are regional differences, especially with Northern Ireland.

I've noticed that up there too. There is a very old fashioned approach to lots of things up there by a minority of the population. Kind of old school harsh disciplinarian parenting etc would tend to go arm in arm with very conservative attitudes to life in general.

Its definitely not a majority view though.

South of the border its more likely to be verbal threats and usually only from rough parents...

Frank Black

Didn't we do this a few weeks ago?

Kettleson

Dfmnoc wrote: »

You cant delete that or my post will look out of place

Apologies for that. My opinion is visible in a quotation if reference needed.

Kettleson

Frank Black wrote: »

Didn't we do this a few weeks ago?

Regional variations? Lead me to it...

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Kettleson wrote: »

Thanks for that. Specifically interested in the regional opinions.

And meanwhile in adult world, if you lay a finger on another person, it's assault. And even a threat of intention "I'll beat you" is a verbal assault.

Would be interested in any links you have on those "rules" you mentioned.

Not in Ireland, parents are still legally allowed to slap their kids under what is known sometimes as the "reasonable chastisement" rule.

gobnaitolunacy

Dfmnoc wrote: »

I believe we should bring back slapping, Majority of kids are out of control these days.

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato

dgt

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Not in Ireland, parents are still legally allowed to slap their kids under what is known sometimes as the "reasonable chastisement" rule.

When parking my car one evening in the local town, a car behind me had its window open. The charming gentleman started to shout at what looked like a 3 year old, then slap them a few times only to fire them into the back of the car.....

Apart from that incident, I don't see much smacking going on, mostly verbal auld ones

BeerWolf

Bring back the wooden spoon.

--Kaiser--

RachaelVO wrote: »

There's a helluva difference between the odd slap and a beating.

Exactly. I got the 'odd slap' from my parents, I can't say it was ever undeserved and it certainly didn't do me any harm

Fr_Dougal

Better off not slapping kids, mental torture is much more effective; doesn't leave any marks for them to rat you out either.

cloud493

Best way to discipline a child is take their stuff away. They might not be arsed about a slap on the leg, but they'll be arsed if they can't facebook their mates or tweet or whatever it is now.

BeerWolf

BeerWolf wrote: »

Bring back the wooden spoon.

thats what I got when I was a kid.

That and a switch:) I was sent out to the bak garden, told to get a switch, if it wasnt big enough I had to go back out and get another one Got it across the back of the legs.
Sting!!!! I wasnt a bold child too often.

Precious flower

I got slapped a couple times by my mother, only when I really pushed it. Hit with the wooden spoon, and even slapped across the face once. Damn, that is certainly one slap you never forget! But I was hardly traumatised by it and certainly didn't go round being violent to other people as a result, those children that do that are usually ones that have the crap beaten out of them. In my opinion, I think in places like England where smacking is outlawed is ridiculous. There's a huge difference between giving a slap and beating your child and outlawing slapping will not stop the mother/father you likes to come home and beat her/his children black and blue behind closed doors. Giving your child a small smack is not the end of the world and parents shouldn't be judged for doing it. However, it doesn't always work, epsiecally when the parents don't have a good disciplinary fountain to begin with and uses it every time to correct their child.
Slapping in my opinion is for when nothing else works.

biko

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

Showing your naivety there. They were saying the same thing 3000 years ago.

It always amazes me how people came blithely trot out such rubbish without engaging the smallest part of their brain.

Aye, it's clear that kids have degenerated since then. Look at the little fockers now lol.

It always amazes me how posters think it's ok to attack another person's intelligence when they don't agree with them. Could you not simply have asked him to back up his statement instead?

anncoates

Have two boys and they can be a real handful. Not really a 'smacker' but have given a smack on the arse or hand, before, albeit not much.

Don't really have to do it these days as they are at the age where deprivation of treats or confiscation of possessions is effective.

Thing about these debates is that no matter how aggrieved people get and no matter how much agenda-driven evidence is presented - and no matter how much passionate conflation with actual/extreme violence is implied - the simple fact remains that for every person here that claims that light physical chastisement has had an adverse effect or leads to violent outlook, there are just as many people for whom the exact opposite is the case.

On a side topic: the idea that modern kids are somehow more out of control/cheekier/wilful than previous generations is just a reverse-nostalgia confection.

9959

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Exactly. I got the 'odd slap' from my parents, I can't say it was ever undeserved and it certainly didn't do me any harm

I'll be the judge of that, given time you could still 'go postal'.

anncoates

9959 wrote: »

I'll be the judge of that, given time you could still 'go postal'.

SMACKING = NASCENT SERIAL KILLING

Christ the Redeemer

Violence begets violence. If you shout at and slap a child you are only teaching them that the best way to deal with problems is to shout and hit.

Triangla

Christ the Redeemer wrote: »

Violence begets violence. If you shout at and slap a child you are only teaching them that the best way to deal with problems is to shout and hit.

Not really, I got slapped for minor offences like acting up in the shop as a kid or if I was being bold at home. It meant the next time I was acting up a threat of a slap would be a deterrent and make me stop.

The next time I wouldn't even bother because I knew I would get given out to, slapped and not get my way.

Obviously the above is over time. I'm not talking about getting beaten with a poker or anything, just a slap.

I see parents debating with 3 year olds and I feel sad for these people.

Would I ever hit another person - hells no. Slapping to discipline a kid I would see as sometimes necessary aspect of being a responsible parent.

A lot of my friends got a slap every now and then growing up. And not just from their own parent either.

I was sitting on the wall outside my house calling my younger neighbour name. I was about 10 but I was being a dick.

My neighbour was crying and a man passing told me to stop.

I told him to f""k off and he slapped my face. I was in tears and went in home parents asked me what was wrong and I said nothing because I would have gotten another slap for saying f""k off and grounded for my behaviour.

Did I tell grown ups I didn't know to f""k off after that? No way.

These are my own opinions, feel free to disagree. I won't slap you or anything just for disagreeing.

MugMugs

I don't see the issue.

I was slapped as a child and through my early teens.

Didn't do me any harm and I mean that sincerely. In fact it taught me a few things !

Mr Benevolent

biko wrote: »

Could you not simply have asked him to back up his statement instead?

How could he back up his statement? Statistics? Double blind studies? Anecdotal evidence? All I said was that if the poster thought about the cliche he posted he'd quickly realise that it's nonsense.

Dfmnoc

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

How could he back up his statement? Statistics? Double blind studies? Anecdotal evidence? All I said was that if the poster thought about the cliche he posted he'd quickly realize that it's nonsense.

Well for one i thought your original comment was nonsense, you branded slapping as a criminal offence, my parents slapped me as a kid, there parents slapped them, any related parents to me slapped there kids does that make them all criminals. I don't condone baiting a child but i believe slapping is a good method of discipline and just be cause you don't believe in it doesn't give you the right to insult how others bring up there kids.

Kettleson

anncoates wrote: »

Have two boys and they can be a real handful. Not really a 'smacker' but have given a smack on the arse or hand, before, albeit not much.

Don't really have to do it these days as they are at the age where deprivation of treats or confiscation of possessions is effective.

Thing about these debates is that no matter how aggrieved people get and no matter how much agenda-driven evidence is presented - and no matter how much passionate conflation with actual/extreme violence is implied - the simple fact remains that for every person here that claims that light physical chastisement has had an adverse effect or leads to violent outlook, there are just as many people for whom the exact opposite is the case.

On a side topic: the idea that modern kids are somehow more out of control/cheekier/wilful than previous generations is just a reverse-nostalgia confection.

I think that is well balanced and reasonable.

My interest was the regional aspect. I think that in some places it is seemingly more socially acceptable to give yer kids a right good whallop with no apparent concern for the force with which it is dealt or the place it is done: ie in public, and in cases, its just angry parents losing it. That to me is assault.

Humiliation seems to play a part of the punishment for the child and a public display of strict authoritarian parenthood (as a "proper" thing) on the part of the parent. And, public smacking seems to be pretty common in the north.

As I say, my 11 year old daughters reaction to seeing forceful smacking in public was the thing that made me think. But I'm again refocusing on the regional acceptability of public, often forceful slapping.

Mr Benevolent

Dfmnoc wrote: »

Well for one i thought your original comment was nonsense, you branded slapping as a criminal offence

Here's my original comment:

Showing your naivety there. They were saying the same thing 3000 years ago.

It always amazes me how people came blithely trot out such rubbish without engaging the smallest part of their brain.

Where specifically in that comment did I brand slapping as a criminal offence? I merely responded to your statement that:

Majority of kids are out of control these days.

That's simply not true and is a nonsensical cliche. Yes, kids might need a VERY rare slap across the back of the legs, but saying that the majority are out of control doesn't even come close to making sense.

Dfmnoc

Where specifically in that comment did I brand slapping as a criminal offence? I merely responded to your statement that:


Originally Posted by Mr Benevolent

I'm not trying to stir up a debate on child slapping as its totally, deplorable, unacceptable and I believe, a potential criminal act.

Czarcasm

Dfmnoc wrote: »

Where specifically in that comment did I brand slapping as a criminal offence? I merely responded to your statement that:


Originally Posted by Kettleson

I'm not trying to stir up a debate on child slapping as its totally, deplorable, unacceptable and I believe, a potential criminal act.

I think you may be getting the names slightly confused there. That's not how you spell Mr. Benevolent.

Dfmnoc

Czarcasm wrote: »

I think you may be getting the names slightly confused there. That's not how you spell Mr. Benevolent.

My apology. He edited the original post had to get it off another

bumper234

Christ the Redeemer wrote: »

Violence begets violence. If you shout at and slap a child you are only teaching them that the best way to deal with problems is to shout and hit.

And you have solid evidence to back this up?

Kettleson

Apologies if confusion caused. And indeed I would believe that some child physical punishment could justifiably be classified as a criminal assault.

I Heart Internet

Precious flower wrote: »

Giving your child a small smack is not the end of the world and parents shouldn't be judged for doing it. However, it doesn't always work, epsiecally when the parents don't have a good disciplinary fountain to begin with and uses it every time to correct their child.
Slapping in my opinion is for when nothing else works.

What, pray tell, is a "disciplinary fountain"?????

bumper234

I Heart Internet wrote: »

What, pray tell, is a "disciplinary fountain"?????

Think he/she means foundation lol

cgh

Firstly, I am a father of 3 kids all under 10, im not a fan of smacking, but there are times when the naughty step, bold corner, removing items (xbox, Nintendo ds, etc) just doesnt cut it.
there are a few very rare times that a smack for me is required. any one that has kids will probably agree with me on that. those who dont have kids just wont understand.

MaxWig

I Heart Internet wrote: »

What, pray tell, is a "disciplinary fountain"?????

It's a variation on the '**** storm'.

It involves pissing from a height on unruly children.

Its frowned upon now.

But what isn't?

BeerWolf

cgh wrote: »

Firstly, I am a father of 3 kids all under 10, im not a fan of smacking, but there are times when the naughty step, bold corner, removing items (xbox, Nintendo ds, etc) just doesnt cut it.
there are a few very rare times that a smack for me is required. any one that has kids will probably agree with me on that. those who dont have kids just wont understand.

What would hitting yourself achieve ? :pac:

Ilik Urgee

MaxWig wrote: »

It's a variation on the '**** storm'.

It involves pissing from a height on unruly children.

Its frowned upon now

But what isn't?

I'd imagine from below too.