Secrets of Chinese weightlifters

amazingemmet

This thread is worth the read

http://www.pendlayforum.com/showthread.php?t=16252

Echo's a lot of my sentiments in training. Do lots and lots and you'll get good results.

Now who's up for icing their balls??

colman1212

Some great pics on his Instagram, That girl squatting 155kg at 48kg bodyweight is incredible.

amazingemmet

He's got a blog that you can find towards the end of the thread, going over technique and other bits and pieces. Well worth the read.

Theresalwaysone

Impressive.

These Chinese buckos, who are admittedly a great bunch of lads, just show that consistency is key imo.

JJayoo

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Impressive.

These Chinese buckos, who are admittedly a great bunch of lads, just show that consistency is key imo.

But are all these Chinese lifters not the product of systematically picking out the genetically gifted? I mean how many million Chinese people have lifted throughout their childhood to the best of their ability and then told to fcuk off because they don't belong to a small pool of superior genes.

Theresalwaysone

JJayoo wrote: »

But are all these Chinese lifters not the product of systematically picking out the genetically gifted? I mean how many million Chinese people have lifted throughout their childhood to the best of their ability and then told to fcuk off because they don't belong to a small pool of superior genes.

My point was, that genes or no genes, consistency will get you the best results for you.

I also am of the opinion that genetics are weighted incorrectly by the majority of people when it comes to the algorithm of success.

I do like the idea of some chinese messer being plucked from obscurity and having admantium bonded to his skeleton because he showed a propensity for lifting buckets of water though.

Scuba Ste

JJayoo wrote: »

But are all these Chinese lifters not the product of systematically picking out the genetically gifted? I mean how many million Chinese people have lifted throughout their childhood to the best of their ability and then told to fcuk off because they don't belong to a small pool of superior genes.

I don't think it's quite to the extent you're assuming but they do have a sports school model afaik. But yeah genetics, drugs and most importantly being a full-time athlete play a part. They can train with that level of intensity and frequency because of lots of factors that don't apply to your average lifter. Polish, Russian, Iranian, French, German and any other athletes in the A group are just as consistent as the Chinese though. And they're all essentially professional athletes.

As a weightlifter when I first read that post my immediate thought was that the Chinese were doing pretty much the same thing as every other country. Lots of snatches, lots of cleans, lots of jerks, squats and pulls. Same as everyone else. Nothing revolutionary imo.

I take all these secrets with a pinch of salt. I imagine a lot gets lost in translation.

He has nice pictures though.

Wait til you see the latest Kazakh training system.

dor843088

And the elephant in the room is ? STEROIDS!! Its no secret . Testers have to give notice they intend on turning up in china . So the secret is do lots of steroids so you can train harder and recover faster than your competitors boom! Gold medal.

JJayoo

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

I do like the idea of some chinese messer being plucked from obscurity and having admantium bonded to his skeleton because he showed a propensity for lifting buckets of water though.

Well it's good that you can entertain yourself with random racism, cus all those china men gotta get water to the paddy fields.

But in reality weightlifting like gymnastics is taught from a very young age in china, actually gymnastics is usually the first training most future weight lifters will get and it's explosive nature is a good marker. So no coaches don't go out looking for messers as they have literally hundreds of thousands of children from about 10 years up competing for a few places. Hard work and consistency is the norm not the exception.

Hanley

dor843088 wrote: »

And the elephant in the room is ? STEROIDS!! Its no secret . Testers have to give notice they intend on turning up in china . So the secret is do lots of steroids so you can train harder and recover faster than your competitors boom! Gold medal.

Truth. So unfair considering all the other countries are drug free.

LuckyLloyd

Hanley wrote: »

Truth. So unfair considering all the other countries are drug free.

To be fair, I would expect most if not all of the MDUSA athletes are drug free.

amazingemmet

dor843088 wrote: »

And the elephant in the room is ? STEROIDS!! Its no secret . Testers have to give notice they intend on turning up in china . So the secret is do lots of steroids so you can train harder and recover faster than your competitors boom! Gold medal.

Every person you see stepping on stage at a senior international competion is more then likely on PEDs. Everyone has access to the same drugs and masking agents so its pretty much a level field.

JJayoo

Scuba Ste wrote: »

I don't think it's quite to the extent you're assuming but they do have a sports school model afaik. But yeah genetics, drugs and most importantly being a full-time athlete play a part. They can train with that level of intensity and frequency because of lots of factors that don't apply to your average lifter. Polish, Russian, Iranian, French, German and any other athletes in the A group are just as consistent as the Chinese though. And they're all essentially professional athletes.

I agree with what your saying, it's just I don't think any country can even come close to getting to "survey" such a massive amount of young kids for natural ability. But obviously there are all the other factors, even something as unquantifiable as luck would play apart when you consider how a minor injury could completely change a lifters career.

dor843088

Hanley wrote: »

Truth. So unfair considering all the other countries are drug free.

Its a lot easier if johnny tester lets you know hes on the way or is gettin a brown envelope leaves the door open for longer acting esters than dont have to clear your system as quick

amazingemmet

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

To be fair, I would expect most if not all of the MDUSA athletes are drug free.

I can probably list ~300 compounds that would aid performance in weight lifting that are currently untestable for.

That said what has MDUSA done on an international level? So maybe they are clean

Theresalwaysone

Christ. The racist card. It was more the funny image of this young lad out working hard and strong being picked up by the weight lifting police than me casting the whole population of china as rice farmers.

Anyway thats way off topic.

dor843088

amazingemmet wrote: »

Every person you see stepping on stage at a senior international competion is more then likely on PEDs. Everyone has access to the same drugs and masking agents so its pretty much a level field.

If one person is tested ramdomly tested frequently and another isnt I dont agree that that is a level playing field however Im aware theyre all on for sure.

JJayoo

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Christ. The racist card. It was more the funny image of this young lad out working hard and strong being picked up by the weight lifting police than me casting the whole population of china as rice farmers.

Anyway thats way off topic.

Lol I was only messing.

LuckyLloyd

amazingemmet wrote: »

I can probably list ~300 compounds that would aid performance in weight lifting that are currently untestable for.

That said what has MDUSA done on an international level? So maybe they are clean

Discounting Pan Ams, nothing. Pendlay doesn't strike me as pro drug use in anything I've read or seen, and the likes of John North talked on numerous occassions about being subjected to consistent testing.

Now, you're generally not talking about the most elite athletes entering the sport there and they seem to be taking it up in their late teens but there does seem to be a different drug use culture (or lack thereof) in US weightlifting versus Russia / China / Iran / the rest. Mendes was putting up interesting numbers in training that he couldn't replicate in competition and then, boom!, gets done for using.

The point is, let's not pretend the Chinese are some wonderful hard working drug free athletes. Using is a pre requisite, a base requirement. Doesn't make their work ethic any less impressive however. And you can rest assured that national sporting bodies in Russia / Iran / China / other successful weightlifting countries are making it as easy as possible for their promising athletes to use in training for extended periods.

Theresalwaysone

No one claimed they were drug free athletes?

LuckyLloyd

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

No one claimed they were drug free athletes?

The dude in the thread listed seemed to imply they were imo.

amazingemmet

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Discounting Pan Ams, nothing. Pendlay doesn't strike me as pro drug use in anything I've read or seen,.

He has stated on reddit that he's not anti anything other then cheating and if PEDs were allowed he'd be loading the syringe 2 mins after the announcement.

LuckyLloyd

amazingemmet wrote: »

He has stated on reddit that he's not anti anything other then cheating and if PEDs were allowed he'd be loading the syringe 2 mins after the announcement.

Yeah, well, anti cheating (and meaning it!) is anti drug use in professional sport.

Theresalwaysone

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The dude in the thread listed seemed to imply they were imo.

I guess he has too.

I meant here though. I don't think anyone is naive enough anymore to really think top level athletes is most sports are clean but Im still in awe of the drive it takes to get to the level these guys are at.

amazingemmet

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, well, anti cheating (and meaning it!) is anti drug use in professional sport.

Yes and no, anti cheating could be interpreted as just not breaking the rules. There's whole classes of drugs that could boost performance in weightlifting that aren't on the WADA list yet. Selective androgen receptor modulators, SARMS for instance. Also currently undetectable. First and second gen myostatin inhibitors.

LuckyLloyd

amazingemmet wrote: »

Yes and no, anti cheating could be interpreted as just not breaking the rules. There's whole classes of drugs that could boost performance in weightlifting that aren't on the WADA list yet. Selective androgen receptor modulators, SARMS for instance. Also currently undetectable. First and second gen myostatin inhibitors.

Fair point (I couldn't claim a good grasp about the limits of the banned list tbh). And maybe the MDUSA lads and US weightlifters in general are on as much as they can get away with and it really just is a talent / training / coaching / entry age gap and drugs has absolutely nothing to do with the difference.

DylanJM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Fair point. And maybe the MDUSA lads and US weightlifters in general are on as much as they can get away with and it really just is a talent / training / coaching / entry age gap and drugs has absolutely nothing to do with the difference.

I'm pretty sure the lifters in the States are clean. The testing program in the US makes it very hard for them to use anything. The numbers lifted in the recent nationals would support this.

Scuba Ste

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Fair point (I couldn't claim a good grasp about the limits of the banned list tbh). And maybe the MDUSA lads and US weightlifters in general are on as much as they can get away with and it really just is a talent / training / coaching / entry age gap and drugs has absolutely nothing to do with the difference.

Drugs has a lot to do with the difference.

Hard, consistent training is a prerequisite, talent is a prerequisite, lifestyle, nutrition, recovery and training age is a prerequisite and a genetic disposition to excel at certain sports is a prerequisite. Drugs play a big part and it is naive to think otherwise. BUT the US don't have all the other things going for them. Small talent pool, no professionalism, no consistent recruitment at a young age and lots more. Plus of course they take as much as they can get away with. And some are obviously on gear but don't compete.

Every top country has most if not all the other factors in place as well as the drug use. The US don't even have the basics. The US isn't really worth the comparison imo.

Hanley

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Drugs has a lot to do with the difference.

Hard, consistent training is a prerequisite, talent is a prerequisite, lifestyle, nutrition, recovery and training age is a prerequisite and a genetic disposition to excel at certain sports is a prerequisite. Drugs play a big part and it is naive to think otherwise. BUT the US don't have all the other things going for them. Small talent pool, no professionalism, no consistent recruitment at a young age and lots more. Plus of course they take as much as they can get away with. And some are obviously on gear but don't compete.

Every top country has most if not all the other factors in place as well as the drug use. The US don't even have the basics. The US isn't really worth the comparison imo.

When was the last time the US won a medal?

DylanJM

Hanley wrote: »

When was the last time the US won a medal?

Kendrick Farris got a medal at the recent Universiade. Think they got a few junior medals over the last couple of years as well I think. The last senior men's medal at a worlds was Wes Barnett.

They've also got a 12 or 13 year old 62kg lifter lifting in the region of 100/128. Clarence Cummings I think his name is. There must be something with that name Clarence.

Hanley

DylanJM wrote: »

Kendrick Farris got a medal at the recent Universiade. Think they got a few junior medals over the last couple of years as well I think. The last senior men's medal at a worlds was Wes Barnett.

They've also got a 12 or 13 year old 62kg lifter lifting in the region of 100/128. Clarence Cummings I think his name is. There must be something with that name Clarence.

i meant at an olympics.. but since their world champs haul is so bad, guessing olympics has been a while too!!

...I don't know why they're even considered a weightlifting nation given their continued poor performance.

amazingemmet

DylanJM wrote: »

Kendrick Farris got a medal at the recent Universiade. Think they got a few junior medals over the last couple of years as well I think. The last senior men's medal at a worlds was Wes Barnett.

They've also got a 12 or 13 year old 62kg lifter lifting in the region of 100/128. Clarence Cummings I think his name is. There must be something with that name Clarence.

Damn his sinclair is higher then mine must be on gear!

Pace2008

Really got my jollies off this bit:

so how to boost hormone(test): Horny goat weed and apparently icing your testicles twice a day!! im not kidding!

:rolleyes:

Scuba Ste

Hanley wrote: »

i meant at an olympics.. but since their world champs haul is so bad, guessing olympics has been a while too!!

...I don't know why they're even considered a weightlifting nation given their continued poor performance.

They're not by anyone outside America but they post videos and articles in English so we love them.

In fairness they're not winning anything because they are cleaner than other countries. Farris and a few others would probably have a chance at a medal if they were using (assuming they're not) but they'd be nowhere near the bigger countries in terms of depth which some internet forums think they could be.

JJayoo

The problem with the US system is that the potential talent pool is hovered up by wrestling/football/hammer/shot put/javelin.

Dermighty

Quality training yields quality results.

Reducing variability improves quality is a popular phrase from quality control books.

Scuba Ste

Dermighty wrote: »

Reducing variability improves quality is a popular phrase from quality control books.

Save that for the Bulgarian thread.