Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread III

FrannoFan

Are some people suggesting coughlin Better than heaslip!?!the two tour 5 from 6 test starts, best 8 in the 6 nations heaslip?
Wow you must be very misty teed at coughlin departure if you can say that. Never been capped because there are better players in the same position. Simple as. No conspiracy or blinkered coaches.
Great servant, great role model to all young lads to keep playing and your chance to be a pro can come later but not better than heaslip.

Podge_irl

FrannoFan wrote: »

Are some people suggesting coughlin Better than heaslip!?!the two tour 5 from 6 test starts, best 8 in the 6 nations heaslip?.

Dunno if I'd go that far. He certainly has been at times but I would say Picamoles and Parisse have be edge on him now. Coughlan never got a cap cause Heaslip is just better and was basically never injured.

jimbo94s

Podge_irl wrote: »

Dunno if I'd go that far. He certainly has been at times but I would say Picamoles and Parisse have be edge on him now. Coughlan never got a cap cause Heaslip is just better and was basically never injured.

Best 8 in 6 nations? Really? In my eyes he would be 4th behind Vunipola Parisse and Picamoles.

buck65

I'd have him 7th best in the 6 nations.

ssaye2

Heaslip being rated again, vol 28

Best of Luck to Coughlan

Buer

jimbo94s wrote: »

Best 8 in 6 nations? Really? In my eyes he would be 4th behind Vunipola Parisse and Picamoles.

They all have their strengths. None of the above have the work rate around the field or link play that Heaslip has though. He's come up against all of them repeatedly as well as guys like Harinordoquy and Read in the past year and was not found wanting whatsoever.

It's a tough call. I wouldn't have Vunipola in that group though. He's an excellent ball carrier but lacks in other areas.

jimbo94s

Buer wrote: »

They all have their strengths. None of the above have the work rate around the field or link play that Heaslip has though. He's come up against all of them repeatedly as well as guys like Harinordoquy and Read in the past year and was not found wanting whatsoever.

It's a tough call. I wouldn't have Vunipola in that group though. He's an excellent ball carrier but lacks in other areas.

I Disagree. Vunipola does what all 8s should do best..Carry ball and get his team over the gainline. To say his work rate is poor is untrue and for a player of his age he has an incredible skill set. A far superior player to Jamie and at 21 has a massive career ahead of him.

shuffol

Buer wrote: »

They all have their strengths. None of the above have the work rate around the field or link play that Heaslip has though. He's come up against all of them repeatedly as well as guys like Harinordoquy and Read in the past year and was not found wanting whatsoever.

It's a tough call. I wouldn't have Vunipola in that group though. He's an excellent ball carrier but lacks in other areas.

Depends on the side their in though, if you've others to pick up the slack for Vunipola he can be devastating and will guarantee front foot ball in a way few others can. Would be interesting to see who'd get the nod if the Lions tour was this summer. They'd both travel anyway.

Tox56

shuffol wrote: »

Depends on the side their in though, if you've others to pick up the slack for Vunipola he can be devastating and will guarantee front foot ball in a way few others can. Would be interesting to see who'd get the nod if the Lions tour was this summer. They'd both travel anyway.

Well yeah, but among those few others are the likes of Picamoles and Parisse. Serious collection of 8s in the NH atm, this 6 Nations just gone id say Heaslip was the best

Buer

jimbo94s wrote: »

I Disagree. Vunipola does what all 8s should do best..Carry ball and get his team over the gainline. To say his work rate is poor is untrue and for a player of his age he has an incredible skill set. A far superior player to Jamie and at 21 has a massive career ahead of him.

15 years ago, perhaps. An 8 needs to be able to perform in all facets now. If it was just a carrier with ball skills, Nick Williams would be a 50 cap international.

Vunipola has a big career ahead of him but, at this moment in time is still incredibly raw. He is a non-entity at rucks and not much of an option in the line out. He falls off tackles too. He has awesome power and ball handling however which is hard to come by. He's going to have a great career but I wouldn't have him above the more rounded players that can deliver in all facets.

former legend

Tox56 wrote: »

Well yeah, but among those few others are the likes of Picamoles and Parisse. Serious collection of 8s in the NH atm, this 6 Nations just gone id say Heaslip was the best

Picamoles was awful this season but how that, or any of this, relates to Coughlan I'm not sure.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

jimbo94s wrote: »

I Disagree. Vunipola does what all 8s should do best..Carry ball and get his team over the gainline. To say his work rate is poor is untrue and for a player of his age he has an incredible skill set. A far superior player to Jamie and at 21 has a massive career ahead of him.

He is in his ring far superior.

Fireball07

I do think there was a time that Coughlan was playing better than Heaslip. This does not necessarily mean he is a better player. And the reason Coughlan never played for Ireland isn't that he wasn't test quality, it was that he was seen as too old right from the start and Heaslip never ever got injured.



We'll miss him a lot. He was so well-rounded, in terms of claiming restarts and controlling the ball at the base of the scrum (going forward and backward), there was no one better than him. His work rate, his leadership, his defence, his carrying, his sharpness at the breakdown, he was an all-rounder who contributed. Very consistent over the past few years too. A great player who is still under-appreciated.

phog

Donal Lenihan saying Mannix might be looking for JJ to follow Coughlan

It appears that the departing Simon Mannix has succeeded in his efforts to bring Coughlan with him to Pau. Apparently he is also setting his sights on Hanrahan.

If true, great move by Mannix but terrible for Munster and IMHO a bad move by JJ if he goes.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

phog wrote: »

Donal Lenihan saying Mannix might be looking for JJ to follow Coughlan




If true, great move by Mannix but terrible for Munster and IMHO a bad move by JJ if he goes.

Would be a poor move for JJ imo and an awful decision if Munster let him go

JJ is the biggest prospect in Irish rugby alongside Furlong imo

Hagz

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Would be a poor move for JJ imo and an awful decision if Munster let him go

JJ is the biggest prospect in Irish rugby alongside Furlong imo

Ahem Olding Ahem.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Hagz wrote: »

Ahem Olding Ahem.

and Olding!

This is nonsense I reckon. Munster wouldn't let him go in a month of Sundays and JJ could easily command a move to a T14 side or Premiership team

CatFromHue

I wouldn't go that far myself, he still has only started 16 games for Munster.

I suppose it depends on where he sees Tyler B playing. If he sees him as a 10 and with Keatley there too then his game time will be vastly reduced at 10. In that case it may be no harm to go to Pau for a season or two and get a good chunk of game time.

phog

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

and Olding!

This is nonsense I reckon. Munster wouldn't let him go in a month of Sundays and JJ could easily command a move to a T14 side or Premiership team

I hope it doesn't happen, I doubt its nonsense that Mannix wanted JJ

If JJ wanted to go I can't see how Munster could stop him.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

CatFromHue wrote: »

I wouldn't go that far myself, he still has only started 16 games for Munster.

I suppose it depends on where he sees Tyler B playing. If he sees him as a 10 and with Keatley there too then his game time will be vastly reduced at 10. In that case it may be no harm to go to Pau for a season or two and get a good chunk of game time.

Furlong has only started once for Leinster and I'd say Olding doesn't have many more starts for Ulster than JJ does for Munster

Hence why I said one of the best "prospects" really. He's a IRB Junior player of the year nominee and is pretty much universally seen as a player with a potentially massive future

umop.episdn

Not a hope in hell. The brightest prospect Munster have produced in a few years being allowed to rot in D2.
I'm quite sure JJ has international ambitions & moving to Pau would be the end of that while Schmidt is in charge

.ak

Anyone else think Coughlan moving on is a really selfless act? By moving on he is allowing the newer younger players a shot at the spot, meanwhile he also gets to see another part of the world for a few years. Fair play to him.

CatFromHue

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Furlong has only started once for Leinster and I'd say Olding doesn't have many more starts for Ulster than JJ does for Munster

Hence why I said one of the best "prospects" really. He's a IRB Junior player of the year nominee and is pretty much universally seen as a player with a potentially massive future

As potential goes he's right up there but I don't know if he could command a move to a Top14 or Aviva side, which is what I was replying too.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

CatFromHue wrote: »

As potential goes he's right up there but I don't know if he could command a move to a Top14 or Aviva side, which is what I was replying too.

ah ok.

Still don't agree. You really don't think any side in the Aviva or Top14 would be interested in him?

thomond2006

Wow Mannix is really making an effort to be liked on the way out isn't he?!

Hurk

.ak wrote: »

Anyone else think Coughlan moving on is a really selfless act? By moving on he is allowing the newer younger players a shot at the spot, meanwhile he also gets to see another part of the world for a few years. Fair play to him.

Read somewhere else that it's a two-year playing deal, followed by a two-year coaching role so it certainly makes a lot of sense for him and his family, if that's the case.

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

Wow Mannix is really making an effort to be liked on the way out isn't he?!

Can't blame the guy for recognising talent.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

Can't blame the guy for recognising talent.

I was only being semi-serious.

I get Coughlan moving to get a payday before retiring, JJ going doesn't make any (rugby) sense. He'll be invisible to Ireland. I do think it would be good for Holland though as he'll be fourth choice in all likelihood next year.

Hurk

I thought Mannix was trying to get Johnny Holland over. Did that fall through?

thomond2006

Hurk wrote: »

I thought Mannix was trying to get Johnny Holland over. Did that fall through?

After that rumour came out a press release came out from Munster regarding academy / development contracts with Holland included. So I'm guessing it did fall through.

Buer

As unpopular as it may be, JJH could get a truck load of game time in France along with a significant bump in salary. He started 11 games this season and, aside from one game against Glasgow, every start was against bottom half Pro12 sides.

I don't think the standard at Pau would be any better but he'd get 25 starts a season there. If TB comes in and looks really good, will JJH be next in line if Keatley gets injured in a big game?

From a selfish, Irish supporter perspective, I'd love for him to go away and get 2 years and 50 starts under his belt with hopefully the second season as a starting outhalf in the T14 (Pau narrowly missed out on promotion).

However, I don't think he'll be going anywhere nor would Munster let him out of his contract a year early.

Hagz

I would see it as a stupid move. He's completely out of the loop abroad and he'd have to come back into one of the provinces to compete for an Irish place. That province would have to be Munster. He's good enough to compete for the starting spot with Keatley now and good enough to push Jackson/Madigan for the back up out-half slot now. 38 appearances for Munster at 21 is good going. He should stay put.

The Lost Sheep

Buer wrote: »

That kid could well come into the reckoning before the end of next season on the basis of his talent.

The only problem is, if the stats on Munster's site are to be believed, he's miles off the required weight to play senior rugby in the pack at 92kg. Even if he's a stone heavier than listed, it'll be hard to throw him in too much.

He's 21 in January so better get him on the Tony Buckley diet for next season.

He will come into reckoning very soon and the IRB site for 20s JWC has his weight at 97 so with a bit more work he'll be ok for pro12 next season.

.ak wrote: »

Anyone else think Coughlan moving on is a really selfless act? By moving on he is allowing the newer younger players a shot at the spot, meanwhile he also gets to see another part of the world for a few years. Fair play to him.

Kind of. He is giving the younger players a shot while also giving him a decent pay off which he will not have got if he stayed and considering he came to top level late is important to him...

Buer

Hagz wrote: »

I would see it as a stupid move. He's completely out of the loop abroad and he'd have to come back into one of the provinces to compete for an Irish place. That province would have to be Munster. He's good enough to compete for the starting spot with Keatley now and good enough to push Jackson/Madigan for the back up out-half slot now. 38 appearances for Munster at 21 is good going. He should stay put.

It wouldn't be a stupid move given he'd be getting what he needs more than anything else right now which is game time. But it certainly wouldn't benefit him in terms of Irish selection nor would it benefit Munster so, from that perspective, it makes little sense. If he was to move, it would probably need to be a higher level side. If Grenoble, for example, came in for him, I'd say he should go.

He's clearly not first choice for Munster nor does it look like it's much of a contest given how selections have gone. IK has got the nod for every game of any note and the gap between them has grown as the season went on. Keatley moved to another level and Hanrahan's performances in the latter stages of the season were not too impressive really at all.

I'd eat my hat if he was pushing Jackson/Madigan for the back up spot this side of the RWC. He'll need to leapfrog IK firstly and I don't see that happening unless he gets more minutes in higher profile games.

That's not to say that he doesn't have the talent which he does but he needs games at this point in time. He's young enough and does have loads of time to develop. My point is purely from what could bring him along as a player as quickly as possible.

alias no.9

Buer wrote: »

It wouldn't be a stupid move given he'd be getting what he needs more than anything else right now which is game time. But it certainly wouldn't benefit him in terms of Irish selection nor would it benefit Munster so, from that perspective, it makes little sense. If he was to move, it would probably need to be a higher level side. If Grenoble, for example, came in for him, I'd say he should go.

He's clearly not first choice for Munster nor does it look like it's much of a contest given how selections have gone. IK has got the nod for every game of any note and the gap between them has grown as the season went on. Keatley moved to another level and Hanrahan's performances in the latter stages of the season were not too impressive really at all.

I'd eat my hat if he was pushing Jackson/Madigan for the back up spot this side of the RWC. He'll need to leapfrog IK firstly and I don't see that happening unless he gets more minutes in higher profile games.

That's not to say that he doesn't have the talent which he does but he needs games at this point in time. He's young enough and does have loads of time to develop. My point is purely from what could bring him along as a player as quickly as possible.

JJ's been playing through a persistent groin problem this season

Buer

alias no.9 wrote: »

JJ's been playing through a persistent groin problem this season

I'm aware. So has Keatley.

alias no.9

Buer wrote: »

I'm aware. So has Keatley.

JJ would most likely have seen more gametime had he not been carrying the injury and who knows what the pecking order would be. Hopefully both will get good rest followed by a good preseason and kick on to play 10 and 12 next season in the big games

Kirk Van Houten

alias no.9 wrote: »

JJ would most likely have seen more gametime had he not been carrying the injury and who knows what the pecking order would be. Hopefully both will get good rest followed by a good preseason and kick on to play 10 and 12 next season in the big games

the fact both are heading to Romania instead of getting the injury sorted through either rest or an operation is a disgrace.

Fireball07

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

the fact both are heading to Romania instead of getting the injury sorted through either rest or an operation is a disgrace.

It does seem pointless. It's not like either are going to learn much out there tbh, they don't even get the benefit of working with Joe.

alias no.9

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

the fact both are heading to Romania instead of getting the injury sorted through either rest or an operation is a disgrace.

Yeah, they've had a few weeks off before the trip which will hopefully help but with PJ's misfortune, there's not many other options, don't think Olding has come back.from injury.

CatFromHue

Buer wrote: »

It wouldn't be a stupid move given he'd be getting what he needs more than anything else right now which is game time. But it certainly wouldn't benefit him in terms of Irish selection nor would it benefit Munster so, from that perspective, it makes little sense.

Thing is he's not going to be pushing for Ireland selection if he stays in Munster for the next two seasons either.

There's alot of benefit to him to him going really especially as Tyler B is signed for 3 years.

Plus there's plenty of evidence in the Munster squad to why it's not such a bad idea to leave as opposed to waiting to get your turn, for want of a better phrase, when you're in your mid to late 20's. Keatley is only 27 and Tyler B is 24

CatFromHue

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

ah ok.

Still don't agree. You really don't think any side in the Aviva or Top14 would be interested in him?

I think some of the English clubs would only be interested in him as a squad back up type player, not as a first team starter, but I don't think any of the top teams in England would though. I think it would be the same in the Top 14 too.

Hagz

CatFromHue wrote: »

Thing is he's not going to be pushing for Ireland selection if he stays in Munster for the next two seasons either.

I completely disagree. It's highly unlikely he'll travel with the World Cup squad, but highly possible he'll enter the Ireland fold over the next two seasons.

Riskymove

Hagz wrote: »

I completely disagree. It's highly unlikely he'll travel with the World Cup squad, but highly possible he'll enter the Ireland fold over the next two seasons.

barring injuries I'd agree

JJ has lots of potential and like Olding for example there will be a time when they are in contention and pushing Jonny ...but it wont be over the next year

JJ going to Pau makes little sense.....a Top14 or Premierhsip team...maybe

tbh he'd be better off moving to somewhere like Connacht than Pau...but I dont think he needs to move at all...he will take over from Keats in 2-3 years for sure imo

former legend

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

the fact both are heading to Romania instead of getting the injury sorted through either rest or an operation is a disgrace.

Is it possible that their respective injuries don't actually need operations?

danthefan

former legend wrote: »

Is it possible that their respective injuries don't actually need operations?

Absolutely not. Boards.ie is the repository of all information on Irish rugby, their provincial and national doctors know nothing.

Kirk Van Houten

former legend wrote: »

Is it possible that their respective injuries don't actually need operations?

yes it is possible and thats why i mentioned rest or an operation. When POC had a similar issue a few years back several different treatment options were discussed and/or used including surgery, rest, steroid injections, antibiotics etc.

I believe the groin injury problems in the Munster camp may be a systematic issue caused by incorrect training practices similar to the way Leinster had the hip injury problems a few years ago.

former legend

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

yes it is possible and thats why i mentioned rest or an operation. When POC had a similar issue a few years back several different treatment options were discussed and/or used including surgery, rest, steroid injections, antibiotics etc.

I believe the groin injury problems in the Munster camp may be a systematic issue caused by incorrect training practices similar to the way Leinster had the hip injury problems a few years ago.

Your claim that the IRFU staff are behaving disgracefully is at odds with the decision to withdraw Henshaw.

jm08

Dougie has become a Paddy. Even better news - he has 3 sons.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/doug-howlett-we-have-to-think-big-if-we-want-to-stay-where-we-are-30313660.html

Aidric

jm08 wrote: »

Dougie has become a Paddy. Even better news - he has 3 sons.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/doug-howlett-we-have-to-think-big-if-we-want-to-stay-where-we-are-30313660.html

Great story. We've had many great imports down the years but Dougie trumps them all. He'll surely switch from the corporate role to a coaching one in years to come.