Overseas Player Watch

Hagz

I thought it might be worth starting a thread devoted to the Irish players who are playing overseas, just so there's somewhere to post about their progress. The most obvious names are Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro), Niall Morris (Leicester Tigers), and Jamie Hagan (London Irish), but there's plenty more scattered around France and England, Wales, Scotland and even Australia.

Tonight, Rotherham Titans are playing Worcester Warriors in a pre-season match and former Munster player Sean Scanlon starts at full-back and former Leinster and Doncaster Knights winger Michael Keating starts on the right wing. Updates are here
http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/sport/10612716.Warriors_v_Rotherham/
The starting scrum-half, Charlie Mulchrone is also Irish qualified and seems to be highly rated. Here's some highlights of him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFEsJwuGZKk

irishbucsfan

Hoping this'll be a strong year for the Irish in the premiership this year.

The other starting players over there would be the likes of TOL, iHumph, Shane Monahan and Ian Whitten.

Buer

Championship generally has a few of our gang knocking around who were released by academies. The man I keep an eye on is Eamon Sheridan at Rotherham. I'd be confident he'll be back at a province at some point in the future. He's 108kg and can play 11, 12, 13 and 14. Bagged himself 8 tries last season.

Not sure he'll ever be top level but would definitely add depth and another option for teams in the Pro12.

Swan Curry

Robin Copeland was pretty good for Cardiff last season,I don't know whether him or Pretorius are first choice though.

Buer

Swan Curry wrote: »

Robin Copeland was pretty good for Cardiff last season,I don't know whether him or Pretorius are first choice though.

Pretorius is club captain but is injured more often than not. Given the fact that Copeland can play lock, flank or 8, he'll see plenty of game time again. He seems to have settled very well in Cardiff.

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Championship generally has a few of our gang knocking around who were released by academies. The man I keep an eye on is Eamon Sheridan at Rotherham. I'd be confident he'll be back at a province at some point in the future. He's 108kg and can play 11, 12, 13 and 14. Bagged himself 8 tries last season.

Not sure he'll ever be top level but would definitely add depth and another option for teams in the Pro12.

Sheridan is with London Irish now.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Sheridan is with London Irish now.

Ta. I thought I recalled something about him moving to a bigger side but when I Googled him the Rotherham link came up.

Will be watching him closely. He has only turned 24 this summer so plenty of time for him to show his quality.

.ak

Any footage floating about of Sexton's preseason game?

lurtz

cant understand why copeland hasnt been signed back to ireland

Buer

lurtz wrote: »

cant understand why copeland hasnt been signed back to ireland

Well, he only joined Cardiff last year on a 2 year deal so there hasn't been an opportunity to sign him back, really, and I don't think anyone wanted to gamble on him on the back of his performances in the Championship.

Also, there's the possibility he won't want to come back. He seems to be enjoying himself in Cardiff going on his involvement in their jersey release and looks to be enjoying his rugby too. He's playing most of his rugby in the back row which isn't exactly a weak area in Irish rugby either.

Fireball07

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Hoping this'll be a strong year for the Irish in the premiership this year.

The other starting players over there would be the likes of TOL, iHumph, Shane Monahan and Ian Whitten.

Is Caldwell not still a starter for Bath? Stringer should get some gametime too
And there's Tommy Hayes and Steenson for Exeter.

Not sure if Mushy Buckley and Andress start for their respective clubs, but they're still over there.
And I'm pretty sure Barnes signed for some English team, can't remember who... be interesting to see how he gets on.


And are Dave and Timmy Ryan still playing in pro12? Not sure about that.... and is Fogarty is playing in the Top 14 next season? Lots of Irish players abroad.

oneshot0kill

Does Ireland pick overseas players for the national team if they aren't signed within Ireland itself? Sexton will be a big loss if so and Hagan himself would help with the tighthead depth issue.

Buer

daniigan wrote: »

Does Ireland pick overseas players for the national team if they aren't signed within Ireland itself? Sexton will be a big loss if so and Hagan himself would help with the tighthead depth issue.

Yes, they do, although it certainly massively hampers your selection if you're abroad. Sexton is too important to be snubbed though. If you're uncapped and playing abroad, you can almost forget about it for the senior squad.

oneshot0kill

Cheers. Having a stint in England will be good for the props when it comes to the scrummaging department. Could be good in the long run while the academy props get some extra exposure.

Fireball07

Buer wrote: »

Yes, they do, although it certainly massively hampers your selection if you're abroad. Sexton is too important to be snubbed though. If you're uncapped and playing abroad, you can almost forget about it for the senior squad.

Who knows, maybe Schmidt will change this?

I mean the likes of Bowe, Easterby and Murphy are all players who were regularly included while abroad, obviously they were talented players.

But what players playing abroad would have been in contention and missed out- the likes of Cullen, Jennings, Casey? Did Trevor Brennan ever get picked while abroad, I can't remember? Anyway, I don't think any of those players were better than those who were ahead of them.


But maybe Schmidt will consider bringing the likes of Hagan/Andress or Morris into squads.

irishbucsfan

Fireball07 wrote: »

Is Caldwell not still a starter for Bath? Stringer should get some gametime too
And there's Tommy Hayes and Steenson for Exeter.

Not sure if Mushy Buckley and Andress start for their respective clubs, but they're still over there.
And I'm pretty sure Barnes signed for some English team, can't remember who... be interesting to see how he gets on.


And are Dave and Timmy Ryan still playing in pro12? Not sure about that.... and is Fogarty is playing in the Top 14 next season? Lots of Irish players abroad.

Yep all good points (not the Ryans though I dont think).

Danny Barnes is with Newcastle.

Buckley is more of a starter than Andress iirc

English Lurker

Fireball07 wrote: »

Is Caldwell not still a starter for Bath?

Possibly, but uncertain. He spent a lot of last season injured, and Bath have a decent amount of locks there - he'll be competing for a spot as lineout lock against Stuart Hooper, who I believe is still the club captain, and Dave Attwood, who's got himself back in the England reckoning. I reckon he's a better player than Hooper, and a better jumper than Attwood, who can also play grunty lock, so he could make it, but it'll be a difficult fight there.

Buer

Fireball07 wrote: »

Who knows, maybe Schmidt will change this?

I mean the likes of Bowe, Easterby and Murphy are all players who were regularly included while abroad, obviously they were talented players.

But what players playing abroad would have been in contention and missed out- the likes of Cullen, Jennings, Casey? Did Trevor Brennan ever get picked while abroad, I can't remember? Anyway, I don't think any of those players were better than those who were ahead of them.


But maybe Schmidt will consider bringing the likes of Hagan/Andress or Morris into squads.

The guys selected were in different situations or in a different era. Bowe was an established international before he moved. Murphy and Easterby are from a different time, way before the emergence of central contracts.

At that time, a large number of players were based in England. When they made their debuts, literally half the squad were playing there.

Brennan never got a cap when abroad but, similar to Jennings, Cullen and Casey, he wasn't better than what was there. But there were occasions where guys playing in England weren't getting into the squads despite definitely being good enough to be third or fourth choice in their positions. Jennings, for example, only made his debut for Ireland when he announced his return to Leinster.

I'd hope Schmidt does select foreign players if they're deserving of it but they simply don't have the same involvement in training camps etc. to stake their claim. I'm sure there's a certain level of pressure to select Irish based players also to counteract any potential exodus. As long as players thing they'll be out of the picture internationally, that will play on their minds in negotiations unless they're in Sexton's position where they're simply in the team regardless of where they are playing.

irishbucsfan

Eamon Sheridan is starting for LI against Northampton on Saturday. Just a friendly but still a good sign.

ColmH81

There's also Michael Noone at Leicester... Only 23.. Can play anywhere in the back row.. Played a 5 first team games last season and got 3 tries... A former Ireland u19 & u20 player..

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Eamon Sheridan is starting for LI against Northampton on Saturday. Just a friendly but still a good sign.

Ian Cross started 13 for LI in the same game. YM man plays outside back, never got a sniff round the Irish scene, hopefully something comes good from here for him

irishbucsfan

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny wrote: »

Ian Cross started 13 for LI in the same game. YM man plays outside back, never got a sniff round the Irish scene, hopefully something comes good from here for him

I didn't even realise it was the same Ian Cross!

It'd be great if they ended up with a backline like O'Leary, Humphreys, Sheridan, Cross!

bamboozle

Scanlon
Keating
Sheridan
Barnes
Morris
Sexton
Stringer
Andress
Fogarty
Hagan
Caldwell
Sheriff
TJ Anderson
Copeland
Noone


Decent enough team...cant think of a LH though

lurtz

bamboozle wrote: »

Scanlon
Keating
Sheridan
Barnes
Morris
Sexton
Stringer
Andress
Fogarty
Hagan
Caldwell
Sheriff
TJ Anderson
Copeland
Noone


Decent enough team...cant think of a LH though

think Shane Cahill might be a loosehead. Neil best would be much better than anderson

irishbucsfan

lurtz wrote: »

think Shane Cahill might be a loosehead. Neil best would be much better than anderson

I dunno about that at all. If he was much better he'd be playing for a better club than Scots.

Buer

lurtz wrote: »

think Shane Cahill might be a loosehead. Neil best would be much better than anderson

Not sure much better would apply anymore. Best's career has fallen off a cliff and he's probably entering his last contract as a professional before retirement with a low level championship side.

He's a massive case of wasted talent.

lurtz

look Im not saying hes goin to be on the next lions tour Im just saying hes a better player than TJ anderson,and speaking of low level clubs Scottish would be a better place to be than Ealing.

bamboozle

lurtz wrote: »

look Im not saying hes goin to be on the next lions tour Im just saying hes a better player than TJ anderson,and speaking of low level clubs Scottish would be a better place to be than Ealing.

Ali Birch is with Rotherham this season, i'll throw him in at 7 instead of TJ Anderson who in fairness didnt stand out much at AIL level last season. Not sure if Jerry Cronin is still with Doncaster...if so i'll throw him in at LH.

irishbucsfan

lurtz wrote: »

look Im not saying hes goin to be on the next lions tour Im just saying hes a better player than TJ anderson,and speaking of low level clubs Scottish would be a better place to be than Ealing.

Really? Both only recently promoted to the championship?

I suppose we'll see this season. I live about equidistant to both!

hype101

Ian Whitten and Shane Monahan would probably squeeze in there.

phog

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny wrote: »

Ian Cross started 13 for LI in the same game. YM man plays outside back, never got a sniff round the Irish scene, hopefully something comes good from here for him

I think he went playing League with St Helens and was picked up LI, picked up a leg injury during his trial game but they seemed to have stuck by him. Hope he gets gametime and develops so that he'll be picked up by one of the Irish provinces.

Hagz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU9zg6Exj7E

phog

Danny Barnes starting at 13 tonight for Newcastle v Bath who will have Stringer at 9

Fireball07

Hope he does well.


Natural successor to BOD right there :pac:

iamjenko

Fireball07 wrote: »

Hope he does well.


Natural successor to BOD right there :pac:

I think Stringer has missed his chance to replace BOD tbf

FrannoFan

Peter Lydon from Kilkenny doing well at stade, article about him in "the score" got game time off the bench in two games so far(can't link from iPad.)

phog

TOL captains London Irish today in their game v Saracens.

Buer

Rough start for LI as they were well beaten at home 42-20 by Saracens but most games won't be as tough as playing a pretty full strength Saracens in a neutral ground. Interestingly, Sheridan got the full 80 minutes at inside centre. Great to have an Irish guy getting a good run there at a high level. If he can finally get a run injury free, he will hopefully end up playing back in this country. He's fairly tailor made as a replacement for Downey, to be honest, but has more pace than JD and is bigger again. Only just turned 24 at the start of the summer so a couple of seasons getting good experience at LI could be great for him.

iHumph and TOL featured too. No real idea how any of them played, to be honest. Stats suggest none of them set the world alight but Sheridan appeared to make some yards and made all his tackles based on available stats.

Morf

Jamie Hagan?

Dravokivich

Buer wrote: »

iHumph and TOL featured too. No real idea how any of them played,

TOL was alright. Main thing that stood out against him, was he kept on pointing to who he intended to pass to on his way to a ruck. When he didn't he was facing the way he was going to pass by the time he got there too. Commentators kept going on about how Sarries didn't commit to the rucks, without stating it's because TOL was telling'em where the ball was going anyway. Other than that, he was involved in quite a few tackles.

Buer

Morf wrote: »

Jamie Hagan?

I believe Jamie went off injured against Munster in their last pre-season friendly and thus wasn't involved today. I'll be keeping a keen eye out for the lad though.

irishbucsfan

I've heard they really like the potential of the ES, Armitage center partnership, they're just looking for Sheridan to add an extra dimension to his game if he's going to emerge as really AP standard.

Supposedly IHumph and TOL were pretty poor tonight (I didn't see it, just going on hearsay)

ambid

Buer wrote: »

I believe Jamie went off injured against Munster in their last pre-season friendly and thus wasn't involved today. I'll be keeping a keen eye out for the lad though.

Yep - he's due back late September.

http://www.london-irish.com/Injuries

irishbucsfan

Niall Morris has really matured into that Leicester team. Really top player.

Looks great at 15 too.

jamiedav2011

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Niall Morris has really matured into that Leicester team. Really top player.

Looks great at 15 too.

He's always been a fave of mine, would be a huge signing for us if we could get him back.

Has another 2 years on contract though doesn't he?

iamjenko

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I've heard they really like the potential of the ES, Armitage center partnership, they're just looking for Sheridan to add an extra dimension to his game if he's going to emerge as really AP standard.

Supposedly IHumph and TOL were pretty poor tonight (I didn't see it, just going on hearsay)

In fairness to them as half backs, their pack was on the back foot all day, Sarries fairly dominated up front

lurtz

Peter Osborne,first five from Newbridge college and Naas RFC gone to Tigers. Not sure if trial or academy or what

iamjenko

lurtz wrote: »

Peter Osborne,first five from Newbridge college and Naas RFC gone to Tigers. Not sure if trial or academy or what

The Geordan Murphy connection

phog

An update on the Irish involvement in French rugby over the weekend:

By Murray Kinsella on Facebook or Twitter

Beery Eyed

Highlights from the London Irish match at the weekend are up on the Premiership's YouTube page. Same as with the Rabo page, they seem to update it within a day or two & it's nice to be able to see the tries.

Sheridan had two good offloads in the lead up to Yarde's two tries. He really does look like a huge man & it's great to see him playing regularly & without injuries hampering him. O'Leary & Humphrey's also played in the match

iamjenko

http://www.thescore.ie/irish-players-abroad-france-1096132-Sep2013/

How Irish players in France fared this weekend past