Overseas Player Watch

irishbucsfan

Jeremy Davidson to Clermont is an interesting rumour

RuPi

Jerry Cronin and Danny Kenny both playing for London Irish A

lurtz

jerry cronin is he the munster or the ulster prop?

pappyodaniel

The Boy Sheridan is a Monster!

Tox56

pappyodaniel wrote: »

The Boy Sheridan is a Monster!

He wouldn't look out of place in the Irish backrow:

POM: 6'3 and 108kg
SOB: 6'2 and 108kg
Heaslip: 6'4 and 109kg

Sheridan: 6'4 and 108kg

RuPi

lurtz wrote: »

jerry cronin is he the munster or the ulster prop?

Was with ulster then had a season with Doncaster

lurtz

pappyodaniel wrote: »

The Boy Sheridan is a Monster!

hes a complete mutant,tore his pec warming up on 150 on the bench

Beery Eyed

Any big performances from the lads abroad over the weekend?

Swan Curry

Murray Kinsella did a good write-up of the players in France.

http://www.thescore.ie/irish-players-abroad-rugby-1107616-Sep2013/

Howard Juneau

Not a player, but ex Munster man, Paul Burke is doing well at Leicester.
He's normally the backs coach, but with Cockerill being suspended for 9 games, he's head coach on matchday & doing a good job so far.

Beery Eyed

That's always good to hear. The development of top level Irish coaches, either at home or abroad, is just as important to the health of the game as the development of players.

With McCall at Saracens, O'Shea at Harlequins, Burke now stepping up at Leicester while Cockerill is banned, and the likes of Davidson at Aurillac in France, there are a few that are starting to develop very strong CV's (I may be leaving out others too, but they come to mind). Hopefully it will come to benefit the game in Ireland eventually, but even if it doesn't it's good to see that they are having an influence on the game after their playing careers.

With all four provinces bringing in top level coaches from abroad in recent times, it would point to a lack of Irish options who were up to the task at that point in time. There's certainly nothing wrong with bringing in this type of expertise, but it would be great to have a few coaches in a position to return to Ireland in a head coach role of the next few years.

Buer

Sheridan has played every minute for LI this season. Is their top tackler and has been making regular yards. Really enjoying watching his progress. Hopefully he keeps his injury free run which he so deserves and can get recognition at a higher level.

Morf

Buer wrote: »

Sheridan has played every minute for LI this season. Is their top tackler and has been making regular yards. Really enjoying watching his progress. Hopefully he keeps his injury free run which he so deserves and can get recognition at a higher level.

What is his distribution like? Is he an upgrade on Downey? Ta!

Buer

Morf wrote: »

What is his distribution like? Is he an upgrade on Downey? Ta!

He's an alright passer of the ball. I wouldn't put him in the bracket of creative inside centres, certainly, but he's able to pass. He's a good off loader though. He has made a couple of tries this season with taking the ball into contact, dominating it and flipping the ball out to the supporting runner. I'd consider his distribution to be better on Downey. Given he has just started a two year deal there, he'd probably be a very good replacement for him. He'd have more pace too.

He can also play 12, 13 and wing so brings options.

phog

From Twitter

Mark McKenna ‏@sportproducer 50m

Grenoble's Irish scrum half James Hart named Top14 player of the week by Midi Olympique for role in win over Racing (via @gavinmortimer7)

Howard Juneau

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/dubliner-james-hart-stars-in-paris-to-outshine-sexton-29639465.html

irishbucsfan

It'd be nice to see him over here for a training squad. Send MOC to get a close look at him

shoutman

Howard Juneau wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/dubliner-james-hart-stars-in-paris-to-outshine-sexton-29639465.html

So true what Jackman said about his work ethic. As a 15 year old you'd see him in the rugby club with a bag of balls throwing passes at the rugby posts.
Hard work pays off!

bamboozle

Michael Keating and Ali Birch both scored for Rotherham at the weekend, think they've scored 5 between them so far in the championship. Sean Scanlon had started season at 15 for them but is out for a month and Keating has moved from wing to 15.

Larbre34

H'on James Hart, what a footballer!

Je suis Grenoblois!

irishbucsfan

Will James Hart be JIFF?

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Will James Hart be JIFF?

You have to spend three years in an academy before you're 21. What age did Hart go to France?

If he qualifies as a JIFF player, his stock price in France goes up quite a bit!

Howard Juneau

thomond2006 wrote: »

You have to spend three years in an academy before you're 21. What age did Hart go to France?

If he qualifies as a JIFF player, his stock price in France goes up quite a bit!

About 2 years I think, wiki may not be too reliable

the perfect ten

thomond2006 wrote: »

You have to spend three years in an academy before you're 21. What age did Hart go to France?

If he qualifies as a JIFF player, his stock price in France goes up quite a bit!

My understanding is that if you enter an academy in a French club before your 21st birthday and complete the full 3 years then you are a JIFF, i.e. French formed, player.

So I think this would apply to Hart as he will have completed his third year by 30 June.

irishbucsfan

If he ends up as an Irish qualified JIFF player capable of playing 9 at H Cup level he'll do very well for himself!

dtpc191991

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If he ends up as an Irish qualified JIFF player capable of playing 9 at H Cup level he'll do very well for himself!

It would be great for us in 2015. We are a bit thin on the ground and having hiw at that level should give us a quality back up to Murray and Marmion.

pickarooney

A 9 who can kick? Where did he learn that nonsense?

Buer

pickarooney wrote: »

A 9 who can kick? Where did he learn that nonsense?

From Conor Murray, Ian Porter and Luke McGrath.

The Lost Sheep

Former Scarriff/Young Munster player Shane O Leary named in Grenoble squad for opening Amlin Cup game v Bayonne Thursday night
Would be great to see SOL play Thursday night. Have to wonder why Munster never looked at him for academy?

Aiden7

Is Hart not already french qualified? i read somewhere that he has french mother or grandparent i could be wrong on that tho. If he continues to play well over in france has got to be worth one of the provinces to offer him a deal

Howard Juneau

He's worth keeping an eye on of course. But it's early days in his career yet, he's only played a handful of games.
Probably best to let him be second choice at Grenoble and let him get gametime, rather than bring him back to Leinster & stick him in the AIL again

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Howard Juneau wrote: »

He's worth keeping an eye on of course. But it's early days in his career yet, he's only played a handful of games.
Probably best to let him be second choice at Grenoble and let him get gametime, rather than bring him back to Leinster & stick him in the AIL again

If he's playing Top14 rugby and putting in MOTM performances he won't be playing in the AIL if he comes back to Ireland. Any of the provinces could do with him and the competition is so weak that he'd more or less be guaranteed a bench spot for Munster/Ulster and in a years time Leinster

Tox56

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

If he's playing Top14 rugby and putting in MOTM performances he won't be playing in the AIL if he comes back to Ireland. Any of the provinces could do with him and the competition is so weak that he'd more or less be guaranteed a bench spot for Munster/Ulster and in a years time Leinster

Leinster are falling over themselves with scrum halves. The older 2 will move on but not without a fight and it remains to be seen how Cooney/McGrath will progress but they're decent talents. In terms of game time I think any of the other 3 provinces would be a better bet for him. That's if he wants to come home at all of course

finatron

Aiden7 wrote: »

Is Hart not already french qualified? i read somewhere that he has french mother or grandparent i could be wrong on that tho. If he continues to play well over in france has got to be worth one of the provinces to offer him a deal

His mother is French but Jackman said his preference would be Ireland

Howard Juneau

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

If he's playing Top14 rugby and putting in MOTM performances he won't be playing in the AIL if he comes back to Ireland. Any of the provinces could do with him and the competition is so weak that he'd more or less be guaranteed a bench spot for Munster/Ulster and in a years time Leinster

Leinster let him go at U19.level.
They have a plethora of up & coming SH's as well as the senior guys. so probably no return home there.
Take into account he has started about 3 of the games this season for Grenoble, he is still very green & talk of him being a future international is a bit premature.
As I said, let him where he is, his contract is for another 18 months, if he makes steady progress, he may want to come back home. But then again, he's half French, he may be very happy with the lifestyle & his new career there as it is.

shuffol

George Mcguigan the hooker for the u-20s last season has featured off the bench 3 times for newcastle so far this season. Played a half hour at the weekend against Worcester. Must be fairly highly rated.

student1990

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Leinster let him go at U19.level.
They have a plethora of up & coming SH's as well as the senior guys. so probably no return home there.

plethora?

Reddan and Boss contracts finish this season, maybe they both stay on for one more year.

Cooney is 24 at the end of the season and hasn't broken through at all, McGrath is 21 at the end of the season and is the last year of the academy system.

Realistically SH is a very weak position throughout the provinces, if Hart keeps going he will be in high demand

Tox56

student1990 wrote: »

plethora?

Reddan and Boss contracts finish this season, maybe they both stay on for one more year.

Cooney is 24 at the end of the season and hasn't broken through at all, McGrath is 21 at the end of the season and is the last year of the academy system.

Realistically SH is a very weak position throughout the provinces, if Hart keeps going he will be in high demand

Once again I see you are looking for the positive in every situation...

4 scrum halves is a lot for such a specialist position, and the talent is reasonably well distributed compared to other provinces.

Munster have Murray followed by a chasm to 2 OK (at best) scrum halves. Ulster have Pienaar followed by a slightly smaller chasm to Marshall and 2 decent young 9s.

Leinster have 2 senior (international) 9s of a similar level, Cooney who has picked up a decent amount of experience and probably the most promising of all the young Irish 9s

student1990

4 scrumhalves, with two very near retirement[Reddan(32) + Boss(33)] and certainly past their best, another with very little proven and nearing his mid twenties[Cooney(23)] and a very talented but very much a work in progress player[McGrath(20)] finishing in the academy this year.

No other players in that position in the academy and no obvious candidate to join the academy next season.

Munster have Murray[24], Williams[27], Sheridan[24], Hurley[29], Haugh[20] and Cullen[18].
Ulster have Pienaar[29], Marshall[28], Heaney[22], Porter[25] and Shanahan[20].
Connacht have Marmion[21], Murphy[31], O'Donohoe[26], Walsh[21] and Blade[19].

Tox56

student1990 wrote: »

4 scrumhalves, with two very near retirement and certainly past their best, another with very little proven and nearing his mid twenties and a very talented but very much a work in progress player finishing in the academy this year.

No other players in that position in the academy and no obvious candidate to join the academy next season.

Munster have Murray, Williams, Sheridan, Hurley, Haugh and Cullen.
Ulster have Pienaar, Marshall, Heaney, Porter and Shanahan.
Connacht have Marmion, Murphy, O'Donohoe, Walsh and Blade.

Ulster and Munster have better first choice options but Munster have serious depth problems and not much promise for the future (certainly not as much as Leinster) and the same could be said of Ulster to a lesser extent. Leinster might not have a star right now but they've 2 solid options backed up by two strong options for the future, 1 competent and 1 potentially outstanding.

Munster are 1 injury away from catastrophe, Ulster would be severely impacted by losing Pienaar, but 1 injury for Leinster is barely a blip on the radar by comparison.

student1990

Leinster have better depth right now, but have much more problems in the short term in replacing their first choice. Of course if Murray leaves then obviously Munster are bollixed.

Reddan has been very poor this season and will be 33 soon, Boss has been solid but turns 34 soon aswell. Neither will go on much longer.

If Hart does continue to progress and decides to come back in 18 months time, Leinster looks like the clear option to me if he wants to be first choice.

Pienaar & Murray will be locked in first choices, Marmion too probably.
Leinster will more than likely be trying to get either Cooney or McGrath upto standard.

Hype710

Have people here actually seen Hart play or just basing their opinions on the fact he scored 14 points at the weekend? He's a decent player who's very much a 'French style' scrum half/petit generale but Cooney and McGrath are better players. Really hope to see the latter two get substantial Rabo game time in order to facilitate the transition when Reddan and Boss retire. I'm assuming there must be one or two promising nines below McGrath if they were willing to pass up Shanahan.

student1990

Hype710 wrote: »

I'm assuming there must be one or two promising nines below McGrath if they were willing to pass up Shanahan.

it's an interesting question..
The schools scrumhalves were:
Dave Duggan(Michaels) and Dan Lavelle(Roscrea), neither standout to me as guys who will be in the academy next year. Possibly further down the line though

The under-19 scrumhalves this year were:
Tim Schmidt(Terenure) and Joey Carbury(Blackrock), neither standout to me as guys who will be in the academy next year. Possibly further down the line though

The under-20 scrumhalves this year were:
Nick McCarthy(Michaels) and Charlie Rock(Blackrock), both are actually still eligible for the 19s but this year age group was not particularly strong in regards to scrumhalf after Bobby Holland(Michaels) retired from rep rugby and injury hit Maher(Clongowes). McCarthy probably the most likely to get an academy spot but in comparison to McGrath at the same age, he isn't in the same class.

No obvious scrumhalf for the academy next season based on what i've seen to date.

shoutman

People are really jumping ahead of themselves here. One game does not make a player.

.ak

shoutman wrote: »

People are really jumping ahead of themselves here. One game does not make a player.

Hart's already in my 2015 RWC dream team!!

thomond2006

Peter Lydon at 10 for Stade Francais.

The Lost Sheep

Shane O Leary subs for Grenoble who play Bayonne tomorrow night in Amlin.
Shane is former youths player with Scariff, Co Clare. Played Munster youths, 19s and 20s and last season was top scorer in u20 world trophy with Canada and helped the Canadians reach the final
Tomorrow should be his debut for pro side. He's been mainly playing with espoirs side up until now

Glass Prison 1214

George McGuigan starts for Newcastle in the Amlin.

John Andress starts for Worcester.

Hagz

Irish number 8 Robin Copeland man of the match against Toulon.

jacothelad

Hagz wrote: »

Irish number 8 Robin Copeland man of the match against Toulon.

He was really good. Ulster need a new 8 as Wilson is getting on.......:D