Why do Rangers fans hate Scotland for?? Identity crisis??

paulieeye

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That is a factor indeed, yes.

It's no secret that a vast amount of Rangers fans will vote No next year, and the Scottish fans (with the Tartan Army at the forefront) seem very vocal in their support for the Yes camp.

It's really a mix of Rangers players being booed, the recent hatred of the SFA, a general lack of interest in international football,...
I also notice a general dislike of the Tartan Army and their behaviour.

And unlike what Dempsey claims there is no substantial amount of Rangers fans who support England. If anything, they would be more interested in Northern Ireland outside of Scotland, due to known reasons and the fact several Rangers players play/have played for them.

What karma_ said might be true, I think if Rangers fans follow England it's got to do with the whole casual, lad,... culture that follows them around wherever they go. I know for a fact that several fans of my own team in Belgium also like England a lot, for the same reasons.

Whats this??...someone actually attempting to answer OPs pretty straight forward question? Dunno how right this is but kudos for having a crack!

karma_

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I didn't know Rangers fans made up the majority of Scottish people ?

Or do you think they're the only ones who will vote No :rolleyes:

Whole thing about independence is not clear cut. I know Celtic fans who will most definitely be voting NO.

Jelle1880

karma_ wrote: »

Whole thing about independence is not clear cut. I know Celtic fans who will most definitely be voting NO.

'West Brit bastards' no doubt, according to some

Lennonist

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I didn't know Rangers fans made up the majority of Scottish people ?

Or do you think they're the only ones who will vote No :rolleyes:

People will be voting No and Yes for all sorts of reasons, every vote counts.

Lennonist

Jelle1880 wrote: »

'West Brit bastards' no doubt, according to some

That would be geographically inaccurate, "North Brit bastards" perhaps:D;).

Eirebear

paulieeye wrote: »

Whats this??...someone actually attempting to answer OPs pretty straight forward question? Dunno how right this is but kudos for having a crack!

The OP's straightforward question was answered almost instantly.

The Celtic fans attempts at dragging this into the the usual Rangers/Celtic stuff, despite the fact they know the answers to the questions they're asking however, is a different story.

I think Lennonist's "Enemy Within" quote serves to illustrate my point, and his intentions, pretty clearly.

Lennonist

Eirebear wrote: »

The OP's straightforward question was answered almost instantly.

The Celtic fans attempts at dragging this into the the usual Rangers/Celtic stuff, despite the fact they know the answers to the questions they're asking however, is a different story.

I think Lennonist's "Enemy Within" quote serves to illustrate my point, and his intentions, pretty clearly.

What's your problem exactly. Are you not capable of engaging in a discussion without sly personal digs? Jelle answered the op's question fairly succinctly actually, it was not clearly addressed until then, and certainly not by you.

Eirebear

Lennonist wrote: »

What's your problem exactly. Are you not capable of engaging in a discussion without sly personal digs? Jelle answered the op's question fairly succinctly actually, it was not clearly addressed until then, and certainly not by you.

My problem?

Taking the OP at face value, as a non-scottish football fan, he asked a simple question regarding why a section of the Rangers support won't support Scotland.

That was answered in my first point in this thread.
There is a split in support down to certain attitudes towards glasgow based players amongst the Scotland support, and also that due to recent events involving Rangers there is a groundswell of anti-SFA attitudes.

Clear and simple.

You came along and decided to push the point, asking questions that you know the answers to - you spend enough time in the Rangers thread discussing these very issues.
You're agenda is obvious to anyone who has spent time in that thread.
You want to drag it down into two things
A. "it's all rangers fault, stop whining you got what you deserved"
And B. Perhaps more sinister in many ways - A political divide which fits an element of the Celtic support's wider agenda, fitting the Rangers support into a political and cultural stereotype which allows you to paint them as the bad guy.
"The enemy within" if you will.

Lennonist

Eirebear wrote: »

My problem?

Taking the OP at face value, as a non-scottish football fan, he asked a simple question regarding why a section of the Rangers support won't support Scotland.

That was answered in my first point in this thread.
There is a split in support down to certain attitudes towards glasgow based players amongst the Scotland support, and also that due to recent events involving Rangers there is a groundswell of anti-SFA attitudes.

Clear and simple.

You came along and decided to push the point, asking questions that you know the answers to - you spend enough time in the Rangers thread discussing these very issues.
You're agenda is obvious to anyone who has spent time in that thread.
You want to drag it down into two things
A. "it's all rangers fault, stop whining you got what you deserved"
And B. Perhaps more sinister in many ways - A political divide which fits an element of the Celtic support's wider agenda, fitting the Rangers support into a political and cultural stereotype which allows you to paint them as the bad guy.
"The enemy within" if you will.

My agenda? This is a discussion forum, I'm discussing the questions raised by the op.

The enemy within was a cliched remark, though I would imagine that those who are pushing for Scottish Independence would regard them along with others on the No side in the Referendum debate up there as "the enemy within". Wouldn't they? That would include some Celtic fans up there who intend to vote No as well I'd imagine. You really need to stop being so sensitive and paranoid.

stooge

I still dont get the point of Rangers problems with the SFA being a reason not to support your national team? I mean I have never like the FAI and despise a lot of what they have (not) done for my local team and for grassroots in the country but that still doesnt stop me from wanting the national team to win.

StephenHendry

im sure like like the op has said that there are quite a few rangers fans that will extend their sfa grievances to the national team but you could argue hearts fans could do the same possibly , well some of them anyway. on a side the note the scots fans in wembley last night were teriffic throughout and i think irish fans are similar to the scots and the welsh as well in being great supporters no matter how good, bad or indifferent the national team is.

mikeym

If Rangers fans love England so much why dont they petition for the club to move down south?

dd972

Because a sizeable quotient of them are knobs attracted to Ultra Loyalism's macho posturing and ''well 'ard'' Chelsea fans are more attractive to them then our Celtic Cousins in their kilts having a party and a banterfest wherever they go?

Compare the misanthropy of Rangers fans in Manchester pre 2008 EL Final and the smiles, laughing and joking of the Tartan Army in Trafalgar Square yesterday.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Wow some real genarlisations in those two posts. One while there are some Rangers fans who follow England a lot more just don't care about Scotland anymore.
Two yeah the great Tartan army pishing in the street lifting their Kilts and exposing themselves to women and children lying in there own spew. They are not all the lovely people everyone thinks and this is from someone who up until a few years ago was a regular at Scotland games home and away.
And before anyone starts I am not excusing the thugs and morons who went on the rampage in Manchester but that was not all Rangers fans in fact it wasn't even anywhere near a majority. But for all that I would have loved to have seen everyone of them behind bars.

I know a good few Celtic fans from Glasgow that have little time for the national team.

So what?

Just something else for people to have a moan about.

Dempsey

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Wow some real genarlisations in those two posts. One while there are some Rangers fans who follow England a lot more just don't care about Scotland anymore.
Two yeah the great Tartan army pishing in the street lifting their Kilts and exposing themselves to women and children lying in there own spew. They are not all the lovely people everyone thinks and this is from someone who up until a few years ago was a regular at Scotland games home and away.
And before anyone starts I am not excusing the thugs and morons who went on the rampage in Manchester but that was not all Rangers fans in fact it wasn't even anywhere near a majority. But for all that I would have loved to have seen everyone of them behind bars.

Care to back that up with some facts? Dont link the Martin Bain statement, he's full of shít.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dempsey wrote: »

Care to back that up with some facts? Dont link the Martin Bain statement, he's full of shít.

I know it wasn't a majority I really don't have to go hunting for facts that are nothing to do with why Rangers fans support England
As for Bain being full of **** youou are entitled to your opinion but to be honest your opinion means absolutely nothing to me. Tell me why I want to rehash a subject that was done to death over five years ago I have better things to do. We rangers fans on here know exactly what you think of our club and its fans so meh

Dempsey

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

I know it wasn't a majority I really don't have to go hunting for facts that are nothing to do with why Rangers fans support England
As for Bain being full of **** youou are entitled to your opinion but to be honest your opinion means absolutely nothing to me. Tell me why I want to rehash a subject that was done to death over five years ago I have better things to do. We rangers fans on here know exactly what you think of our club and its fans so meh

You're trying to pass opinion off as fact with nothing to support it. It doesn't matter what I think about your club in this situation.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dempsey wrote: »

You're trying to pass opinion off as fact with nothing to support it. It doesn't matter what I think about your club in this situation.

Your right it doesn't matter what you think and the thread topic is why Rangers fans support England nothing else

Dempsey

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Your right it doesn't matter what you think and the thread topic is why Rangers fans support England nothing else

You brought up the point and now you trying to give me the stay on topic quip? lol

Eirebear

Dempsey wrote: »

Care to back that up with some facts? Dont link the Martin Bain statement, he's full of shít.

Oh wow.
History doesn't half write itself in funny ways around here.

Are you seriously suggesting that the MAJORITY of the 200k people who were estimated to have traveled down there were involved in and/or instigated the violence?
There were far too many people involved, no one will disagree with you there, and their actions were disgusting and out of order but to suggest the there was over a 100 thousand people involved?
That's just silly, revolutions have happened with less people.

And there we have it.
Thread starts about Rangers, Celtic fans completely derail it with stereotypes and bull****.
I'm sure someone called me paranoid....

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dempsey wrote: »

You brought up the point and now you trying to give me the stay on topic quip? lol

Eh no I didn't I may have brought up themajority bit as the poster who originally brought up Manchester just made a sweeping generalisation about Rangers fans. I certainly wasn't intending to get into a whole discussion about something that happened five years ago that I had discussed at the time. It was a small observation but you wanted to make a big issue of. What a surprise

Dempsey

Eirebear wrote: »

Oh wow.
History doesn't half write itself in funny ways around here.

Are you seriously suggesting that the MAJORITY of the 200k people who were estimated to have traveled down there were involved in and/or instigated the violence?
There were far too many people involved, no one will disagree with you there, and their actions were disgusting and out of order but to suggest the there was over a 100 thousand people involved?
That's just silly, revolutions have happened with less people.

And there we have it.
Thread starts about Rangers, Celtic fans completely derail it with stereotypes and bull****.
I'm sure someone called me paranoid....

And before anyone starts I am not excusing the thugs and morons who went on the rampage in Manchester but that was not all Rangers fans in fact it wasn't even anywhere near a majority.

No, he said the majority that rioted werent Rangers fans, I said they were. I asked for evidence to qualify his claim that it wasnt and I get the defensive mode shíte again from him and you have to come running to help out. Why dont yourself clued up in what people actually said before having your rant. Also, is there no Rangers supporters in England?

Sorry if ye dont like being pulled on bullshít points and unsubstantiated claims, especially by Celtic fans. This isnt the After Hours forum :rolleyes:

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dempsey wrote: »

No, he said the majority that rioted werent Rangers fans, I said they were. I asked for evidence to qualify his claim that it wasnt and I get the defensive mode shíte again from him and you have to come running to help out. Why dont yourself clued up in what people actually said before having your rant. Also, is there no Rangers supporters in England?

Sorry if ye dont like being pulled on bullshít points and unsubstantiated claims, especially by Celtic fans. This isnt the After Hours forum :rolleyes:

Oh why don't you just stick to the discussion on why some Rangers supporters follow England instead of continually trying to derail threads with your small petty minded thinking on us big bad Bears. There no discussion on here concerning Rangers that you don't try to bring your own agenda into. As for someone coming to defend me again this is your argument when Rangers fans stick together and disagree with you. What do you think is going to happen especially if as Rangers fans we happen to agree on the subject many times I have been subjected to three four or more tic fans having a go at me. But I suppose that's ok
This thread should be closed as it has went so far off what was a reasonable question to start with it is now pointless.

Jelle1880

Dempsey wrote: »

No, he said the majority that rioted werent Rangers fans, I said they were. I asked for evidence to qualify his claim that it wasnt and I get the defensive mode shíte again from him and you have to come running to help out. Why dont yourself clued up in what people actually said before having your rant. Also, is there no Rangers supporters in England?

Sorry if ye dont like being pulled on bullshít points and unsubstantiated claims, especially by Celtic fans. This isnt the After Hours forum :rolleyes:

Like claiming that the majority of those involved in the riots were Rangers fans ?

It can be assumed they were, but don't have a go at others for so-called unsubstantiated claims when you're equally guilty of it.

Dempsey

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Oh why don't you just stick to the discussion on why some Rangers supporters follow England instead of continually trying to derail threads with your small petty minded thinking on us bug bad Bears. There no discussion on here concerning Rangers that you don't try to bring your own agenda into. As for someone coming to defend me again this is your argument when Rangers fans stick together and disagree with you. What do you think is going to happen especially if as Rangers fans we happen to agree on the subject many times I have been subjected to three four or more tic fans having a go at me. But I suppose that's ok
This thread should be closed as it has went so far off what was a reasonable question to start with it is now pointless

There is no agenda here other than asking for facts. I asked you a simply to quantify your opinion and you decided you didnt want to and now you are at this. You could have answered my question properly in your initial response and it would have been finished with but you wanted to make a meal of it.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Like claiming that the majority of those involved in the riots were Rangers fans ?

It can be assumed they were, but don't have a go at others for so-called unsubstantiated claims when you're equally guilty of it.

I provide sources when I'm making a point and if I dont for whatever reason, I provide those sources when asked to do so. Dont trot out that bull.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dempsey wrote: »

There is no agenda here other than asking for facts. I asked you a simply to quantify your opinion and you decided you didnt want to and now you are at this. You could have answered my question properly in your initial response and it would have been finished with but you wanted to make a meal of it.

Here us what I actually said

And before anyone starts I am not excusing the thugs and morons who went on the rampage in Manchester but that was not all Rangers fans in fact it wasn't even anywhere near a majority. But for all that I would have loved to have seen everyone of them behind bars.

I can see where you have managed to twist my words of course it was Rangers fans who rioted but it was not the majority of Rangers fans is that clearer for you

Ie taking the total number if Rangers fans in Manchester and subtracting the amount who rioted gives the answer that the majority of Rangers fans did not riot

Dempsey

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Here us what I actually said

And before anyone starts I am not excusing the thugs and morons who went on the rampage in Manchester but that was not all Rangers fans in fact it wasn't even anywhere near a majority. But for all that I would have loved to have seen everyone of them behind bars.

I can see where you have managed to twist my words of course it was Rangers fans who rioted but it was not the majority of Rangers fans is that clearer for you

Ie taking the total number if Rangers fans in Manchester and subtracting the amount who rioted gives the answer that the majority of Rangers fans did not riot

Fair enough if thats what you intended to say, I read it differently. I even referred to the Martin Bain statement after the riots where he tried to pin the blame on undesirables and supporters of other clubs. Now, you could have said then that I picked you up wrong and clarified your point immediately but you decided not to and just get defensive and evade answering properly altogether.

I never tried to claim that the majority of Rangers fans, that traveled, rioted.

Lennonist

Eirebear wrote: »

Oh wow.
History doesn't half write itself in funny ways around here.

Are you seriously suggesting that the MAJORITY of the 200k people who were estimated to have traveled down there were involved in and/or instigated the violence?
There were far too many people involved, no one will disagree with you there, and their actions were disgusting and out of order but to suggest the there was over a 100 thousand people involved?
That's just silly, revolutions have happened with less people.

And there we have it.
Thread starts about Rangers, Celtic fans completely derail it with stereotypes and bull****.
I'm sure someone called me paranoid....

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean I'm not out to get ya:D.

Celtic fans derailed the thread he says. Just look at your post above, I quote "Are you seriously suggesting that the MAJORITY of the 200k people who were estimated to have traveled down there were involved in and/or instigated the violence?".

The poster you replied to never suggested any such thing, but you put it there like as if he did and he then has to say he didn't say it in a make him deny it type maneuver. That throws the discussion off track - or derails it as you would put it - and then later in the same comment you accuse fans of Celtic - in a wonderfully broad brush stroke - of derailing threads.:rolleyes:

Fair play to ya, you're good at it.

Coillte_Bhoy

Dempsey wrote: »

Fair enough if thats what you intended to say, I read it differently. I even referred to the Martin Bain statement after the riots where he tried to pin the blame on undesirables and supporters of other clubs. Now, you could have said then that I picked you up wrong and clarified your point immediately but you decided not to and just get defensive and evade answering properly altogether.

I never tried to claim that the majority of Rangers fans, that traveled, rioted.

For crying out loud it was as clear as day what he was trying to say but no, of course you pick it up differently,

Coillte_Bhoy

Lennonist wrote: »

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean I'm not out to get ya:D.

Celtic fans derailed the thread he says. Just look at your post above, I quote "Are you seriously suggesting that the MAJORITY of the 200k people who were estimated to have traveled down there were involved in and/or instigated the violence?".

The poster you replied to never suggested any such thing, but you put it there like as if he did and he then has to say he didn't say it in a make him deny it type maneuver. That throws the discussion off track - or derails it as you would put it - and then later in the same comment you accuse fans of Celtic - in a wonderfully broad brush stroke - of derailing threads.:rolleyes:

Fair play to ya, you're good at it.

Could be accused of implying it though. EB said that the majority of rangers fans werent involved in trouble and Dempsey asked him to back / what one earth did he mean then?

Pudders

Well said Coillte Bhoy.

Some celtic fans like trying to pick a fight.

I feel sorry for Broxi. He supports a **** club but he is always reasonable and civil.

Does it really matter to IRISH celtic fans whether SCOTTISH people support Scotland or not?

Should we tell Aiden McGeady and James McCarthy to **** off?

The same people on this thread who would cheer on James and Aiden have a problem with Rangers fans not supporting Scotland.....double standards.

Celtic is a left wing club. We shouldn't be obsessed with nationalism (IRISH/SCOTTISH/ENGLISH) of the fascists.

No passaran!

Lennonist

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Could be accused of implying it though. EB said that the majority of rangers fans werent involved in trouble and Dempsey asked him to back / what one earth did he mean then?

I think people are taking things up wrong, but that seems to happen a lot here, people appear to be overly sensitive and make broad sweeping generalisations at the drop of a hat. I also think he was replying to BBE and not EB.

Lennonist

Pudders wrote: »

Well said Coillte Bhoy.

Some celtic fans like trying to pick a fight.

I feel sorry for Broxi. He supports a **** club but he is always reasonable and civil.

Does it really matter to IRISH celtic fans whether SCOTTISH people support Scotland or not?

Should we tell Aiden McGeady and James McCarthy to **** off?

The same people on this thread who would cheer on James and Aiden have a problem with Rangers fans not supporting Scotland.....double standards.

Celtic is a left wing club. We shouldn't be obsessed with nationalism (IRISH/SCOTTISH/ENGLISH) of the fascists.

No passaran!

this is getting confusing now.

Dempsey

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

For crying out loud it was as clear as day what he was trying to say but no, of course you pick it up differently,

No it wasnt clear as day and I didnt imply anything else.

As usual, you wait until the argument is done and dusted to weigh in with your opinion and cast aspersions on people. Im getting real sick of it tbh.

Coillte_Bhoy

Dempsey wrote: »

No it wasnt clear as day and I didnt imply anything else.

As usual, you wait until the argument is done and dusted to weigh in with your opinion and cast aspersions on people. Im getting real sick of it tbh.

Well it was pretty clear to me. YOu come across as intelligent and articulate lad, i find it odd that you misinterpreted the post but if you did, fair enough, my fault.

I posted when i read through it, As for 'done and dusted'sorry i didnt relaise there is a time limit or something, i posted 90 minutes after your last post, and we all cast aspersions in a way, when we disagree with other posts/posters, its the nature of the beast, no big deal.

Dempsey

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I posted when i read through it, As for 'done and dusted'sorry i didnt relaise there is a time limit or something, i posted 90 minutes after your last post, and we all cast aspersions in a way, when we disagree with other posts/posters, its the nature of the beats, no big deal.

No time limit at all, again never said there was. Just an assumption fabricated in response to my post. My point was and is that you have form for waiting for things to done and dusted before weighing in with your aspersions.

Coillte_Bhoy

Dempsey wrote: »

No time limit at all, again never said there was. Just an assumption fabricated in response to my post. My point was and is that you have form for waiting for things to done and dusted before weighing in with your aspersions.

Really, well im sorry, i only caught up with this thread last night and this morning and then made my post. I'll continue to post when and as i see fit and certainly wont defer to you or your ilk if you dont mind.

Dempsey

My ilk eh? :rolleyes:

Coillte_Bhoy

Dempsey wrote: »

My ilk eh? :rolleyes:

Yep

Dempsey

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Yep

You want to explain that one?

dd972

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/celtic-praised-by-manchester-police-969342.html

Don't follow Celtic or Scottish football but this sums up the difference between the Old Firm fans for me, one being a load of angry, misanthropes and the other being up for the craic. There's probably 90% more chance of being attacked by Ranger's fans for wearing a Celtic shirt in the wrong pub or part of Glasgow / Belfast then the other way around.

Coillte_Bhoy

Dempsey wrote: »

You want to explain that one?

No, im sure you understand what your ilk means? It's not intended as an insult btw

Coillte_Bhoy

dd972 wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/celtic-praised-by-manchester-police-969342.html

Don't follow Celtic or Scottish football but this sums up the difference between the Old Firm fans for me, one being a load of angry, misanthropes and the other being up for the craic. There's probably 90% more chance of being attacked by Ranger's fans for wearing a Celtic shirt in the wrong pub or part of Glasgow / Belfast then the other way around.

Interesting stats, you will back them up im sure?

And this is relevant to this thread how?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

dd972 wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/celtic-praised-by-manchester-police-969342.html

Don't follow Celtic or Scottish football but this sums up the difference between the Old Firm fans for me, one being a load of angry, misanthropes and the other being up for the craic. There's probably 90% more chance of being attacked by Ranger's fans for wearing a Celtic shirt in the wrong pub or part of Glasgow / Belfast then the other way around.

Rubbish no one is has excused what happened in Manchester your a wee bit late in the thread with your post but the second bit is just laughable.
You also seem to be out of touch with what this thread is actually about

Dempsey

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

No, im sure you understand what your ilk means?

I understand it perfectly but its seems you are having trouble with the question. I want you to explain what ilk you think I'm part of?

Coillte_Bhoy

Dempsey wrote: »

I understand it perfectly but its seems you are having trouble with the question. I want you to explain what ilk you think I'm apart of?

There is a couple of you that imo seem to thrive on dragging rangers woes into almost every scottish/celtic/rangers related thread. i've been guilty of it in the past myself and probably will be in the future but it just seems to be continuous with some of ye, every time i open a thread its the same old ****e rehashed.

In fact as im typing this its a bit unfair to tarnish you with the same brush as some of the others. At least you make a coherent argument and back it up but still it gets tiresome. Thats my lot.

Dempsey

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

There is a couple of you that imo seem to thrive on dragging rangers woes into almost every scottish/celtic/rangers related thread. i've been guilty of it in the past myself and probably will be in the future but it just seems to be continuous with some of ye, every time i open a thread its the same old ****e rehashed.

In fact as im typing this its a bit unfair to tarnish you with the same brush as some of the others. At least you make a coherent argument and back it up but still it gets tiresome. Thats my lot.

Its hard to ignore the fact that the disdain for the SFA & NT has increased amongst their support because of Rangers liquidation and how it was handled. Thats a pretty big elephant in the corner if its not to be discussed because some people are still abit sensitive over the whole thing. I wouldnt have brought it up if it wasnt relevant.

Most of my posts in this thread have been in response to people misrepresenting what I said

dd972

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Rubbish no one is has excused what happened in Manchester your a wee bit late in the thread with your post but the second bit is just laughable.
You also seem to be out of touch with what this thread is actually about

Already touched on the main post of the thread earlier, some Rangers fans follow England because they think it carries more macho kudos than kilted Tartan Army lads having a laugh and a party.

Coillte_Bhoy

Dempsey wrote: »

Its hard to ignore the fact that the disdain for the SFA & NT has increased amongst their support because of Rangers liquidation and how it was handled. Thats a pretty big elephant in the corner if its not to be discussed because some people are still abit sensitive over the whole thing. I wouldnt have brought it up if it wasnt relevant.

Most of my posts in this thread have been in response to people misrepresenting what I said

But it's pretty clear that is the case, i dont think anyone is disputing that?
Anyway, look, if i overstepped the mark, i take it back, there are some complete muppets of celtic fans posting in these threads and while i disagree with your style, though not substance necessarily, i dont mean to include you in that motley crew.