Why do Rangers fans hate Scotland for?? Identity crisis??

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Lennonist wrote: »

I think the thread raised an interesting question, but the way it was phrased ended up with a Celtic v Rangers fans argument. I think it's ridiculous and counter productive that some Scottish Celtic or Rangers or other club's fans would want their national team to lose, because they have grievances with the SFA. Some of it may have to do with a general lack of self esteem with some Scottish people.

Ireland and Irish people suffer from lack of self esteem from time to time, but I would be firmly of the view that having some semblance of control over our affairs - albeit within an EU/IMF context - is better for the national psyche. Scotland has the opportunity to vote for independence next year - and although the polls up 'til now point to the opposite - I hope they do for their own sense of self esteem.

Claptrap the problems arise because to many of both clubs fans push the Irish troubles. We have one side our pushing loyalism and all it encompasses and on the Celtic side it's people pushing the republican view. To be honest I and many others would like to see it out of Scottish football altogether

As for the independence vote if I lived in Scotland I would be voting yes along with many other Rangers fans. But it is nothing to do with low esteem and all tondo with the fact I believe Scotland can run itself without the union.
The problem is the person leading the fight for independence is not the most highly thought of in Scotland and people for that reason no matter how strange it sounds will vote against change.
I honestly believe the vote will go against independence this time but in twenty years (probably to late for me) we will see change.

RoryMac

Eirebear wrote: »

Whats the point

The point is that I think it is probably best not to answer an ignorant comment that suggests Rangers fans are far more likely to attack someone with a similarly ignorant comment that that view is one formed by being in the company of Celtic fans

Lennonist

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Claptrap the problems arise because to many of both clubs fans push the Irish troubles. We have one side our pushing loyalism and all it encompasses and on the Celtic side it's people pushing the republican view. To be honest I and many others would like to see it out of Scottish football altogether

Eh, yeah, you seem to be agreeing with me even though you opened your post with "claptrap". Scottish people should be concerned with Scottish issues and should be backing themselves, which is what I said.

Eirebear

RoryMac wrote: »

The point is that I think it is probably best not to answer an ignorant comment that suggests Rangers fans are far more likely to attack someone with a similarly ignorant comment that that view is one formed by being in the company of Celtic fans

Look. You're still entirely missing my point.

Its simple, if you only contact woth a fierce rivalry in any situation is one sided, then your opinion is naturally going to be one sided.
How in the hell that is being seen as ignorant is beyond me.

The exact same could be said of Rangers fans living on the Shankhill who for whatever reasons have never come into regular contact with Celtic fans.
Its entirely logical.

RoryMac

Eirebear wrote: »

Look. You're still entirely missing my point.

Its simple, if you only contact woth a fierce rivalry in any situation is one sided, then your opinion is naturally going to be one sided.
How in the hell that is being seen as ignorant is beyond me.

The exact same could be said of Rangers fans living on the Shankhill who for whatever reasons have never come into regular contact with Celtic fans.
Its entirely logical.

No I think you're misrepresenting the truth, guys like dd972 have no interest in Scottish football, it's most likely the union jacks or loyalist leanings of a section of Rangers supporters they use to form their views rather than being regaled with stories of "the big bad hun" by Celtic fans.

The vast majority of football fans I talk to have absolutely no interest in our 'mickey mouse league' and trying to talk to them about football matters in Scotland is hard enough never mind trying to discuss the social issues around both clubs.

In my experience most football fans in Ireland associate Celtic/Rangers fans with the actions of the minority of idiots that tar our clubs names and unfortunately threads like this probably re-enforce that view.

I get that you want to defend your club and the majority of their fans and the same goes for me but at this stage I'm out of this thread.

bobmalooka

TheBuilder wrote: »

This could go round in circles all night if your going to nit pick incidents like that, which have no bearing whatsoever on the overall majority of be rangers support.

EB clearly explained his point on the fans travelling over for games, only mixing with Celtic fans for the few hours or over night stay naturally, hearing stories then passing those stories onto ignorant individuals like dd what ever his name is.

It doesn't say anything about the majority of Celtic fans, but it does say a lot about the ignorant majority of Irish people who know nothing about Rangers but hold an opinion based on very little.

I have a friend who never met a Rangers fan in his life until he met me on our first day at college, admitted himself he hated Rangers and their fans based on no actual experience but stories he's heard, and even that he was unsure of me to begin with. We ended up being best friends for the four years of college and don't have a bad word to say about each other and he happily admits he was wrong, no denying there is an unsavoury element, but judgements made on no experience or evidence are worthless is the point being made.

I'm so glad I coach in women's football over here in Glasgow, can enjoy games at the weekend without all the ****e in a team mixed with fans of loads of different clubs.

You see EB was tarring all Irish based Celtic fans with that crap not just some and BBE was trying to validate such a ridiculous statement by asking if such an element in the Celtic support exists.

It was a loaded question completely at odds with the logic he himself was trying to push earlier in the thread (remember it wasn't a majority of fans rioting)

Of course what he said happens does happen, but the pair of boys have made it clear they hold utter contempt for Celtic fans based on poor logic.

bobmalooka

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

The thing is in past threads I have never denied we have bottom feeders at outlet club and I say it by what I wrote in my first post in this thread. And what I argued against was the notion that if was all or nearly all Rangers fans.
So you didn't indulge me in anything.

That's exactly my point. I'll try again.

You and your son are basing your hatred of all Irish based Celtic fans by painting a scenario and saying it fits us all (if the cap fits)

The reason I posted the incidents relating to SOME rangers fans was to illustrate the stupidity of using it as a means to tar all the fans.

Ye can't have it both ways

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobmalooka wrote: »

That's exactly my point. I'll try again.

You and your son are basing your hatred of all Irish based Celtic fans by painting a scenario and saying it fits us all (if the cap fits)

The reason I posted the incidents relating to SOME rangers fans was to illustrate the stupidity of using it as a means to tar all the fans.

Ye can't have it both ways

Show me where either of us has said we hate all Irish based Celtic fans. Sowide of the mark there I think. Putting words into people's mouths isn't a nice thing to do

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobmalooka wrote: »

You see EB was tarring all Irish based Celtic fans with that crap not just some and BBE was trying to validate such a ridiculous statement by asking if such an element in the Celtic support exists.

It was a loaded question completely at odds with the logic he himself was trying to push earlier in the thread (remember it wasn't a majority of fans rioting)

Of course what he said happens does happen, but the pair of boys have made it clear they hold utter contempt for Celtic fans based on poor logic.

Utter pish I suggest you read the posts properly

The_Kew_Tour

This thread really is quality of a different kind.

Lennonist

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Claptrap the problems arise because to many of both clubs fans push the Irish troubles. We have one side our pushing loyalism and all it encompasses and on the Celtic side it's people pushing the republican view. To be honest I and many others would like to see it out of Scottish football altogether

As for the independence vote if I lived in Scotland I would be voting yes along with many other Rangers fans. But it is nothing to do with low esteem and all tondo with the fact I believe Scotland can run itself without the union.
The problem is the person leading the fight for independence is not the most highly thought of in Scotland and people for that reason no matter how strange it sounds will vote against change.
I honestly believe the vote will go against independence this time but in twenty years (probably to late for me) we will see change.

You put the 2nd paragraph in that post up 6 hours later, did you sleep at all last night:pac:.

I hope the people of Scotland don't pass up the opportunity to vote for Independence because they don't like Alex Salmond, or that they would allow that to be a major reason to vote against change, Salmond wont be there forever. I think Cameron is trying to call the bluff. He has tabled this Referendum at a time of high unemployment, huge financial difficulties and low confidence. It'd be nice if Scotland smacked him one against all the odds.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Lennonist wrote: »

You put the 2nd paragraph in that post up 6 hours later, did you sleep at all last night:pac:.

I hope the people of Scotland don't pass up the opportunity to vote for Independence because they don't like Alex Salmond, or that they would allow that to be a major reason to vote against change, Salmond wont be there forever. I think Cameron is trying to call the bluff. He has tabled this Referendum at a time of high unemployment, huge financial difficulties and low confidence. It'd be nice if Scotland smacked him one against all the odds.

Nah don't sleep much I am usually in to much pain. I know Salmond won't be there forever but the history of the SNP itself is abhorrent to many Scots to them they are just Tartan Tories and the founders if it had strong li is to the faciest party.
I know they won't even be in power long as an election would have to be held but some people just feel very strongly about them. I hope like you that the people do vote for independence though they deserve the right to self determination IMO.

Eirebear

bobmalooka wrote: »

That's exactly my point. I'll try again.

You and your son are basing your hatred of all Irish based Celtic fans by painting a scenario and saying it fits us all (if the cap fits)

The reason I posted the incidents relating to SOME rangers fans was to illustrate the stupidity of using it as a means to tar all the fans.

Ye can't have it both ways

Why are you doing this?
How about we go back to the line that is causing you so much pain and anguish and have a look at it.

I think you'll (Or should i say, anyone who isn't trying their hardest to twist things will) see quite clearly that there is more to my response that simply "If the cap fits".

blahfckingblah wrote: »

so your response to this is to portray celtic fans as either bitter tennants drinking Glaswegians or gullible irish part timers.

Eirebear wrote: »

Nope. But if the cap fits.

You'll see - that in response to Blah's accusation, i replied "Nope, but" two words that change the whole context of the line that you're blabbering on about, willfully ignoring the four or five posts which attempt to logically explain my stance to you and a couple of others.

Now, i'll agree that my remark was borne out of frustration and can definitely be read as a slightly petty dig at Blah himself, but you seem to be purposefully taking that remark, and twisting it into something it isn't.

I'm not going to speculate on why you would do that, because you don't seem to want to enter into discussion and instead make wildly off the mark and quite frankly hilarious accusations regarding my "hatred of Irish based Celtic fans" - even though you've ignored the parts where I've spoke about my own Irish based Celtic supporting friends.

You're acting at best like an angry little man who has been blinded out of having any form of discussion, and at worst a hateful liar who thinks that by adapting and focusing on one unimportant line of a discussion, and by ignoring the posts that were made subsequently, you can somehow make me and indeed another poster who had nothing to do with that line look like something they're not.

Eirebear

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Nah don't sleep much I am usually in to much pain. I know Salmond won't be there forever but the history of the SNP itself is abhorrent to many Scots to them they are just Tartan Tories and the founders if it had strong li is to the faciest party.
I know they won't even be in power long as an election would have to be held but some people just feel very strongly about them. I hope like you that the people do vote for independence though they deserve the right to self determination IMO.

****************COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC*******************

The links with fascism are a complete and utter myth fabricated by the Westminster government while Thatcher was rising to power in order to quell the rise in Scottish Nationalism at the time.
Simply by latching onto the National Socialism
Coupled with that you had the stupidly strong Labour party in Scotland, who at the time still had socialist values, labeling them "Tartan Tories" due to what they perceived as slightly more central policies.

Nowadays, the SNP are more socialist than New Labour could ever hope to be, the Westminster tories are in dissaray and spending more time thinking about wether they should join ukip and actually become fascists than they are about anything in Scotland.

If independence is to happen, then Scotland needs to step away from "My dad says" politics for a while and stop doing everything their corrupt Labour MP suggests.
A yes vote is not a vote for Salmond, and 2016 will see Scotland's first proper general election.

Lennonist

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Nah don't sleep much I am usually in to much pain. I know Salmond won't be there forever but the history of the SNP itself is abhorrent to many Scots to them they are just Tartan Tories and the founders if it had strong li is to the faciest party.
I know they won't even be in power long as an election would have to be held but some people just feel very strongly about them. I hope like you that the people do vote for independence though they deserve the right to self determination IMO.

The largest party in the current Irish government had it's own links with Fascism back in the day, although that was a bit longer back in the day. Hopefully the people in Scotland will take that first step sooner or later and then take it from there.

None of what I'm saying is anti-English btw - in case others (not you) take me up wrong - I just reckon it would be good for Scotland.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Well this has went waaaaaaaaayyyyyy off topic

Camac Hibs

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Nah don't sleep much I am usually in to much pain. I know Salmond won't be there forever but the history of the SNP itself is abhorrent to many Scots to them they are just Tartan Tories and the founders if it had strong li is to the faciest party.
I know they won't even be in power long as an election would have to be held but some people just feel very strongly about them. I hope like you that the people do vote for independence though they deserve the right to self determination IMO.

The "Tartan Tory" tag is restricted to a handful of bitter west of Scotland establishment heads - most people in Scotland can see how ridiculous the concept is.

The SNP's electoral success in recent years is due to becoming almost exactly the opposite - they have positioned themselves as a centre-left alternative to a labour party that moved to the right under Blair and has consequently alienated a lot of its former support base in Scotland.

The SNP may still be a broad church, and I dont particularly trust them not to change tack politically if it suits them, but tories they aint.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Camac Hibs wrote: »

The "Tartan Tory" tag is restricted to a handful of bitter west of Scotland establishment heads - most people in Scotland can see how ridiculous the concept is.

The SNP's electoral success in recent years is due to becoming almost exactly the opposite - they have positioned themselves as a centre-left alternative to a labour party that moved to the right under Blair and has consequently alienated a lot of its former support base in Scotland.

The SNP may still be a broad church, and I dont particularly trust them not to change tack politically if it suits them, but tories they aint.

I never said they were I said to many Scots they were