Are people who go volunteering abroad doing so for selfish reasons?

suicide_circus

These groups of students who fund raise to pay for them jet off to some place so they can build an orphanage despite that the fact that they've never worked a day in their lives and could hardly build a sandwich let alone an orphanage. Scrounging off peoples generosity to pay for a tropical piss up. Pure scum.

Legs.Eleven

suicide_circus wrote: »

These groups of students who fund raise to pay for them jet off to some place so they can build an orphanage despite that the fact that they've never worked a day in their lives and could hardly build a sandwich let alone an orphanage. Scrounging off peoples generosity to pay for a tropical piss up. Pure scum.

Jesus Christ. Scum? Really? Maybe save the vitriol for someone more worthy of it?


The levels of jealousy are hilarious here.

emuhead

The responses here are interesting and I've come to the conclusion that volunteering abroad is not as black and white an issue as I thought up to now. An acquaintance (a very well meaning and nice guy I might add) did the whole fundraising and volunteering abroad thing. Apparently the charity did not allow volunteers to post photos of their work online, as this guy put up an album on facebook saying 'We're not allowed to show [this good deed, that good deed etc., i.e., description of volunteering] so here are some photos of our time off.' I think it was unconscious but the whole album and description came across as a thinly veiled attempt to tell everyone what he had done by any means necessary. On the other hand, a good friend of mine has done meals on wheels for years, and I only found out by accident.

PingO_O

emuhead wrote: »

The responses here are interesting and I've come to the conclusion that volunteering abroad is not as black and white an issue as I thought up to now. An acquaintance (a very well meaning and nice guy I might add) did the whole fundraising and volunteering abroad thing. Apparently the charity did not allow volunteers to post photos of their work online, as this guy put up an album on facebook saying 'We're not allowed to show [this good deed, that good deed etc., i.e., description of volunteering] so here are some photos of our time off.' I think it was unconscious but the whole album and description came across as a thinly veiled attempt to tell everyone what he had done by any means necessary. On the other hand, a good friend of mine has done meals on wheels for years, and I only found out by accident.

Is that not the point of Facebook though? A thinly veiled attempt to tell everyone what you're doing, no matter what it is. Some of the posts here are quite cynical. There are people believe it or not who give a **** about those less fortunate to them and if they want to go away do it it's no ones business. Volunteering and enjoying yourself aren't mutually exclusive, and I really doubt they're all conning us out of donations so they can swan off on a sunny holiday, sounds ridiculous to me.

emuhead

PingO_O wrote: »

Is that not the point of Facebook though? A thinly veiled attempt to tell everyone what you're doing, no matter what it is. Some of the posts here are quite cynical. There are people believe it or not who give a **** about those less fortunate to them and if they want to go away do it it's no ones business. Volunteering and enjoying yourself aren't mutually exclusive, and I really doubt they're all conning us out of donations so they can swan off on a sunny holiday, sounds ridiculous to me.

Fair point about facebook, but when you email me / text me or message me on facebook to ask me to donate to your trip you are making it my business.

PingO_O

emuhead wrote: »

Fair point about facebook, but when you email me / text me or message me on facebook to ask me to donate to your trip you are making it my business.

That's fair enough and if you choose to donate you obviously trust the person has the right intentions.

emuhead

I'd sponsor people and have mixed feelings about it TBH. But people do mean well in general.

April O Neill

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

When people complain about others volunteering in foreign countries, it sounds like jealousy to me tbh.

Arrah, come off it. Sure, anyone can go travelling. Jealousy, srsly? Can't believe you trotted that one out.

I think a lot of people have an issue with whether volunteering abroad does more harm than good. See the article I linked upthread.

I volunteer at an animal shelter (in Ireland) at the moment. I guess it's not completely altruistic, as once my work is done I get to cuddle kitties and doggies. But there is so much work to it. Walking, feeding, mucking out, socialising the animals etc. etc. The shelter has a no-kill policy and is very fussy about what homes the animals go to. I can see for myself the good this charity is doing. It's something I have always wanted to do, but you definitely can't slack whilst there. It's not in any way glamorous.

I think if you just are parachuted into a foreign volunteering situation abroad, it's more difficult to know if you are actually helping or just think you are. Like someone said upthread, what's the point of turning up at, say, an orphanage for a few weeks, forming a bond with the kids, then fúcking off?

johnr1

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Not very thinly-veiled "I'm jealous" post.

Not necessarily. Some of us prefer to take our holidays where it doesn't stink of sh1t. Oh, and pay for them ourselves with like, - our own money, not scrounged "charity" from people who mistakenly think they are doing some good in the third world by paying for your junket.

The BBC article linked earlier sums it up really.

NoCrackHaving

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

To be blunt, no.



It's completely stupid to believe that people are volunteering for altruistic reasons and selfishness doesn't come into it. I don't think any volunteer abroad would tell you that was the case. I volunteered in Buenos Aires because the nightlife was great and men are gorgeous but it doesn't mean I didn't do some good for those kids.

Surely the end result is what matters - people are being helped in some way (except the example given in the OP). When people complain about others volunteering in foreign countries, it sounds like jealousy to me tbh.

Yeah I think that's pretty obvious but it's more a case of people begging me for money to fund their trip is what annoys me. If you want to volunteer in Argentina off you go say but don't expect me to help you pay for it. And as for volunteers claiming altruistic reasons, yeah I've heard a lot claiming that's why they did it.

Jealously, really? I don't think people mind about volunteering (as long as it's doing some good-the BBC article sums it up well) but the whole fundraising thing for what are in effect just holidays with some charity/volunteering work on the side leaves a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth.

I'll give an example, someone I know was climbing Kilmanjairo for 'charity' and asked me to donate €60 towards the cost of the trip. Basically I was just giving him and his group funding so they could go and enjoy themselves climbing in Kenya (they're all mostly mountain climbers as it is). Instead I said I would donate to a charity of his choice which is what I did.

Expecting other people to pay for what is in effect your holiday is the issue most people have rather than jealousy.

Legs.Eleven

emuhead wrote: »

Fair point about facebook, but when you email me / text me or message me on facebook to ask me to donate to your trip you are making it my business.

You don't have to donate. And most people do have their heart in the right place. Some very cynical people here. Not all of us are like your man boasting about it on Facebook.

Legs.Eleven

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

Yeah I think that's pretty obvious but it's more a case of people begging me for money to fund their trip is what annoys me. If you want to volunteer in Argentina off you go say but don't expect me to help you pay for it. And as for volunteers claiming altruistic reasons, yeah I've heard a lot claiming that's why they did it.

Jealously, really? I don't think people mind about volunteering (as long as it's doing some good-the BBC article sums it up well) but the whole fundraising thing for what are in effect just holidays with some charity/volunteering work on the side leaves a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth.

I'll give an example, someone I know was climbing Kilmanjairo for 'charity' and asked me to donate €60 towards the cost of the trip. Basically I was just giving him and his group funding so they could go and enjoy themselves climbing in Kenya (they're all mostly mountain climbers as it is). Instead I said I would donate to a charity of his choice which is what I did.

Expecting other people to pay for what is in effect your holiday is the issue most people have rather than jealousy.

You don't have to donate though.

I did volunteer in Argentina (ooooh look at me boasting here!! What a big head! :rolleyes:) but I did it off my own back. I actually paid 5 Euro a day to cover my transport there etc.

The fact that people are throwing ALL volunteers in together annoys me.

Legs.Eleven

johnr1 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Some of us prefer to take our holidays where it doesn't stink of sh1t. Oh, and pay for them ourselves with like, - our own money, not scrounged "charity" from people who mistakenly think they are doing some good in the third world by paying for your junket.

The BBC article linked earlier sums it up really.

My junket? You didn't pay a penny for my volunteering, I did!

Buenos Aires doesn't smell at all btw. It's a great spot! Men are very handsome as are the women. I recommend it.

Legs.Eleven

April O Neill wrote: »

Arrah, come off it. Sure, anyone can go travelling. Jealousy, srsly? Can't believe you trotted that one out.

I think a lot of people have an issue with whether volunteering abroad does more harm than good. See the article I linked upthread.

I volunteer at an animal shelter (in Ireland) at the moment. I guess it's not completely altruistic, as once my work is done I get to cuddle kitties and doggies. But there is so much work to it. Walking, feeding, mucking out, socialising the animals etc. etc. The shelter has a no-kill policy and is very fussy about what homes the animals go to. I can see for myself the good this charity is doing. It's something I have always wanted to do, but you definitely can't slack whilst there. It's not in any way glamorous.

I think if you just are parachuted into a foreign volunteering situation abroad, it's more difficult to know if you are actually helping or just think you are. Like someone said upthread, what's the point of turning up at, say, an orphanage for a few weeks, forming a bond with the kids, then fúcking off?

Well if it's not jealousy, then why the over-the-top hatred for them by some posters here? Not everyone can travel btw - you need money. I can't understand calling volunteers "scum". Seriously? Scum?

I volunteered just like you did but in a foreign country as I happend to be there at the time and not doing anything else. Not all volunteer organisations are the same. The one I volunteered for was just a day care centre for kids who's parents were at work and couldn't hang around the streets on their own as they were too dangerous. We played games, taught them some maths and a bit of English. No one there got sponsorship from anyone and we all paid a fiver a day to cover our costs and to get biscuits and drinks for the kids. I don't have one photo of that time and I don't think my family even know I did it.

My point being, it's unfair to label volunteers "scum". Many of the charities they work for might be scum but the volunteers? Nah. Most have their heart in the right place and most wouldn't claim to be doing it for purely altruistic motivations. They don't, for the most part, deserve the level of vitriol thrown at them on this thread. Perhaps they're naive but bad people who are trying to cheat people out of money? Come of it.

kupus

ok tin hat time......what if a lot of the charities in africa are affiliated with gangs and are used as a front to launder money.
Would that be a wide stretch of the imagination. so volunteers are aiding and abetting criminals. Makes you think doesn't it.

Legs.Eleven

kupus wrote: »

ok tin hat time......what if a lot of the charities in africa are affiliated with gangs and are used as a front to launder money.
Would that be a wide stretch of the imagination. so volunteers are aiding and abetting criminals. Makes you think doesn't it.

Do you think most people who volunteer would volunteer for those charities knowing that was the case?

Volunteers are not scum by definition. You have to take each one case by case. I won't be thrown in with that lot, thanks.

emuhead

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

You don't have to donate. And most people do have their heart in the right place. Some very cynical people here. Not all of us are like your man boasting about it on Facebook.

I never said that I had to donate.
I never said that people didn't have their heart in the right place.
I never said all volunteers boasted about it on facebook.

Good luck with your volunteering.

Legs.Eleven

emuhead wrote: »

I never said that I had to donate.
I never said that people didn't have their heart in the right place.
I never said all volunteers boasted about it on facebook.

Good luck with your volunteering.

My post wasn't directed solely at you.




I don't volunteer anymore.

emuhead

Your response was quoting mine, so it certainly appeared that you were.
Good luck with any volunteering you do in the future.

[to legs eleven]

Legs.Eleven

emuhead wrote: »

Your response was quoting mine, so it certainly appeared that you were.
Good luck with any volunteering you do in the future.

[to legs eleven]

Apologies for that then.



Still think they mean well though for the most part. I know a lot of people do it for charities that mean a lot to them. Someone whose brother commits suicide and he raises money to climb some mountain or other for some suicide awareness charity is hardly scum. Seems like the charities they're collecting for are personal to them. I don't expect them to stick pins in their eyes for donations ffs (this post not directed at you emuhead)

TheLastMohican

In a nutshell, yes. Altruism seems to be selflessness personified. But there is emotional feedback. If, instead of 'thank you' you got abuse etc. the well of 'altruism' would quickly dry up. Except in the case of masochists, the feelgood factor of the appreciation that one gets from having done something for the betterment of the poor/community is the driving force.
The guilt that some humans suffer, looking at the less fortunate stems from the insecurity that this could also befall them. The reason that we humans raced to the top of the evolutionary tree is because we are selfish fuckers first and foremost. Lets face it, would you feed a starving family before you look after your own?

You have to cast conventionality aside in dealing with this otherwise the usual mores will stifle your thoughts.

So, altruism is basically selfishness?

Yes. In the mind of the altruist, the reward is one of several factors. Eternal salvation or help to attain same. The feelgood reaction. The way to gain respect. A foot on the ladder in politics. There are a myriad of reasons.

Must go back to work, but please be altruistic in your critique. After all, I am your cousin

stoneill

I think this was already done in the Daily Mail:
"Selfish Irish Cúnts go Abroad."

biko

steddyeddy wrote: »

This girl shouldn't have been volunteering it goes without saying. She wanted something that looked good on a CV and that was it. Anyway apologies rant over!!

At the end of the day she did actually do it, which means somehow those kids got a little more help than before.
People do stuff for all kinds of reasons, more often egocentric than altruistic.
However, **** gets done and results matter.

shane9689

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Partly selfish, partly not. And people go for different reasons. Acts of kindness make us feel good, so that's the selfish part but many people who volunteer also feel empathy for those who are suffering and genuinely want to help.


I volunteered in the slums of Buenos Aires for 3 months while I was travelling, mainly because i was travelling for 11 months and felt like a useless fooker. I suppose I did it originally for selfish reasons if you were to get down to the fundamentals of it but the children were gorgeous and it'd broke my heart to think they'd no future and I wanted them to have as much fun as possible while they could. I suppose that was the unselfish bit.

This exactly

April O Neill

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Well if it's not jealousy, then why the over-the-top hatred for them by some posters here?

Very little of that going on, TBH. Disdain, yes. Hatred? Hardly.

And I think people are right to question whether some foreign volunteering does more harm than good to the supposed beneficiaries.

bnt

TheLastMohican wrote: »

In a nutshell, yes. Altruism seems to be selflessness personified.
...

I pretty much agree. I have a hard time believing in pure altruism as a general concept, since there's always some form of reward, even if it's not tangible. That holier-than-thou feeling is a great motivator.

On the topic of voluntarism, well, look at the category of people who do it most commonly: students. It looks good on the CV, doesn't it? I looked in to it when I was a student, but then I found out that they would expect me to pay all the costs involved, so it was a total non-starter. (Mature student = no bank of Mum & Dad to back me up.) You'd think that if I was going to give up weeks or months of my time to fly off to Africa and do manual labour for nothing, they'd at least cover my expenses. :rolleyes:

Aineoil

This topic on boards has made me think so much and I am even fighting with myself about the topic.

There are many reasons why a person chooses to do volunteer work.

Some young people choose volunteer work to make a difference, others choose it so the CV looks good.

I know a retired couple who have set up a school, won't name the place, and I may be bad minded, but I think they love the holier-than-thou feeling about what they are doing. Also free holidays.

Because we live in a very rural part of Ireland we feel we have to donate money to them. The thing is we have no idea what they do with the money.

We support charities, as in we have a direct debit from our current account for the Brothers of Charity and one for cancer research. I sound holier-than- now, but I am far from that. Places need money to exist.

And no, I'm not using this thread as a veiled thread about supporting charities or otherwise. We have our own personal reasons for supporting these charities.

Mods.
I may be off topic, but most charities need volunteers and money to do their work

TimeToShine

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if most volunteers abroad were doing so more for the opportunity of free travel rather than actually to help people, but it does no good begrudging them that because in the end they're taking time out to help people so you have to commend them.

Legs.Eleven

April O Neill wrote: »

Very little of that going on, TBH. Disdain, yes. Hatred? Hardly.

And I think people are right to question whether some foreign volunteering does more harm than good to the supposed beneficiaries.

People are indeed right to question these organisations but save the disdain for those worthy of it i.e. the head honchos of these charities with massive, bloated salaries. Volunteers, for the most part, have their hearts in the right place.

WilyCoyote

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

People are indeed right to question these organisations but save the disdain for those worthy of it i.e. the head honchos of these charities with massive, bloated salaries. Volunteers, for the most part, have their hearts in the right place.

I agree here Legs. And young people do have the right outlook in this sphere. But the head honchos have it minted. Unfortunately, you need these people to run things as the youth do the horse work.

hatrickpatrick

Two thoughts here: Firstly that girl sounds like a twat but it doesn't mean all volunteers are, and secondly, doing something for selfish reasons isn't always such a terrible thing if you do it well. Key point here is that this girl is not doing it well, but another person could be there for the same reasons, just for the CV or whatever, an still do a fantastic job. So I'd question whether selfish motives automatically mean you're not going to be good at what you're doing.

kylith

Volunteering is a good thing. The only aspect of it I have a problem with is that you cannot solve the problems of unemployment and poverty by importing free labour from abroad to, for example, build schools. The communities would be better served by employing local people to do the building rather than for Irish teenagers doing it for free.