A minor rant amongst friends.

fatmammycat

Most of you know I have a GSD, a large intact male, now 17 months.
Since I've had this dog I have socialised and trained and socialised and trained and now, at almost a year and a half, he is close to bomb proof with people (he's a real people dog) and equally importantly- with other dogs.
At 6:30 every morning I take my dog to a large stretch of not quite parkland for a 90 minute+ walk; here I meet pretty much the same people every day, we make polite small talk and I usually work my own dog on various things (left to rights, recall, sit/stays/fetch, drop and so on).
I'm lucky with my dog, in that when he is working he's very single-minded and not overly iinterested- these days- in what other dog are doing. We meet and greet loads of dogs- by the way I should point out my dog is off lead for most of this- and his reaction is always the same- if I can put it in human words it would be "good day to you fellow/lady, nice smelling butt you have. Love to stay longer and chat, but my human is about to do something and I don't want to miss it, see you tomorrow perhaps."
Recently a man has been walking the route with his small mixed-breed dog. This is a nice little dog, clearly quite smart, but for whatever reason he charges big dogs in a very aggressive manner. Not just my dog, but every other dog bigger than a collie.
Yesterday this little dog ran an entire field to get to my dog, and when mine didn't really show any great interest, the little dog turned all his attention to me, following me off the field and into the woods, resulting in me having to turn back and wait for the owner to turn up, as he did, pink faced and annoyed.
As this was not the first time, yesterday I said- mildly- 'You know, you're lucky my dog is pretty easy going. You should probably work on your dog's recall...or keep him on a lead.'
I was by no means rude, or even hostile. My dog was in sit stay during this conversation, and frankly just waiting so we could get a move on again.

This man did not get it. He didn't get mad per se, but he was SO dismissive, calling his own dog a 'dolt' and saying 'it would serve him right if he got a bite.'
Except it wouldn't serve him right, and if a GSD or another big dog bit him, he'd be dead or badly injured.
I know I've given out about small dogs before here ( and to top it all off I got clobbered by a staffy a few weeks ago, t'was like getting hit with a bowling ball of mucle and slobber: delightful creature, but no owner in sight again, a whole useless field away) but I'm actually beginning to wonder, is it just because the dogs are small that folk don't train them? OR is it because they're not physically capable of doing real damage that people seem to let them do as they wish?

I'm not being smart or anti-small dog, but hardly a week goes by when we're not approached by a small dog acting badly, and the owners are so blase about it. If my dog acted like that I'd be in serious trouble and people would be ticked off and rightly so.
Anyway, this is very long and rant over, I think I just needed to vent slightly. I will make sure my own animal is well behaved and doesn't think it's okay to bite small cheeky dogs, but I just wondered what other large dog or RB owners thought?

Quality

You do realise your GSD should not by law be allowed to roam off lead?

Doesn't matter how well trained he is.

It's illegal.

endacl

Quality wrote: »

You do realise your GSD should not by law be allowed to roam off lead?

Doesn't matter how well trained he is.

It's illegal.

I didn't read 'roam' anywhere in the OP. Sounds like an exceptionally well-controlled animal.

borderlinemeath

Quality wrote: »

You do realise your GSD should not by law be allowed to roam off lead?

Doesn't matter how well trained he is.

It's illegal.

No dog is allowed 'roam'.
And nowhere in the OPs post has the dog 'roamed'.
I assume you're referring to restricted breed legislation so if you're going to get picky about restricted breeds at least get your post right.

Hooked

Quality wrote: »

You do realise your GSD should not by law be allowed to roam off lead?

Doesn't matter how well trained he is.

It's illegal.

I'm going to row in with... The RB list is utter nonsense. And if the majority of people took the time to exercise and train their dogs as the OP does, there'd be no need for one. Owners need vetting - not dogs.

Now that that's off my chest. Other owners are like parents. You'll meet the loveliest, well mannered kids and you'll meet hyper brats that don't pay any heed to mammy or daddy. It's all in the 'training'. Some doggy parents are like you and me OP, and others simply couldn't give a flying fcuk. Irresponsible, ignorant and never going to change. And the dog pays the price.

I could've written your post, or a variant of it. A husky owner, not nearly as obedient as yours - A people person, and great with most dogs.

Many months ago I replied to a thread... In which I admitted to ALWAYS walking my dog with a stick in tow. As soon as I see an unruly dog off lead (please note I've NO issue with an off lead dog - provided its under an owners control), the stick is swiftly dropped from under my arm and the unruly dog is immediately held or placed on lead.

Things are never going to change in regards to your gripe above OP. Owners that can't be arsed, never will be. They'll probably also continue to not pick up their little madams toilet trophies and this will always upset people like you and me - because we know what a bit of training and consideration of others would yield...

No RB list... No beach bye lays with respect to dogs... No ghastly poop fine signs dotted around lovely parks and countryside.

Mark Tapley

endacl wrote: »

I didn't read 'roam' anywhere in the OP. Sounds like an exceptionally well-controlled animal.

I agree with this . Sounds like the Op has a well behaved and well trained dog.

I have quite a big dog myself and a few times smaller dogs have tried to nip her . I hate to see it as she is never aggressive . I have to ward them off while she tries to hide behind me. Maybe there is a small dog syndrome. Not saying all small dogs are like this, its just the nippy nasty ones stand out. Of course if they were trained it wouldn't be a problem .Its becoming a cliché but a dogs behaviour seems more dependant on its owner than its breed.

Rozelia21

I love all dogs but I am getting increasingly frustrated with small dogs being allowed wander wherever they please and nobody takes any notice! A small dog ran across the road in front of a van to charge at me and my large dog last week. How can people think this is alright? And it does seem to be a small breed thing because this house also has a couple of large greyhounds/lurchers that are kept behind a fence but the little terrier type can go wherever it likes running in front of traffic and harassing other dogs.

Also your dog sounds very well trained and shouldn't be punished by some stupid biased law. No dog should be kept on a lead at all times as long as it is trained and well behaved.

tk123

Did you not know it's 'cute' when small dogs misbehave? looking forward to the screams of onlookers next week when the puppy is allowed out - me and my two 'big dogs' lol

Bullseye1

Quality wrote: »

You do realise your GSD should not by law be allowed to roam off lead?

Doesn't matter how well trained he is.

It's illegal.

Wow. OPs dog well behaved and trained, happens to be RB. Second dog not RB and off lead, no call back, likely to get itself into trouble because of negligent owner and this is posted? No wonder we have the laws we have in this country when attitudes like this exist.

aonb

just to get back to the original post, OP, I totally agree with you. Two of my dogs are small dogs. I would consider myself to be a very responsible owner. I have trained and trained my dogs from day 1. They are both JRTs and complete and utter gurriers when out and about if off leash. I live in a very rural area luckily, so have pretty much stopped walking in parks/places where there are many dogs/walkers.

But I also think that owners in general - and I dont mean to over generalize here - are hopelessly irresponsible. And another generalization is that if you say one word to these people when out walking (if theres doggie hassle/aggro) they will go into attack-mode (worse than their un-restrained dogs!!)

Quality

Well it's the law.

If you want to be a law breaker or condone law breaking that's your choice.

Quality

The poor little dog in the story above was probably shocked into seeing a restricted dog breed. Unleashed and presumably unmuzzled in a public place.

Not surprised it chased you off.

You're lucky it wasn't the Garda chasing you with a hefty fine!

borderlinemeath

Quality wrote: »

The poor little dog in the story above was probably shocked into seeing a restricted dog breed. Unleashed and presumably unmuzzled in a public place.

Not surprised it chased you off.

You're lucky it wasn't the Garda chasing you with a hefty fine!

You forgot your :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.

You can't be serious about the poor little dog being shocked to see a restricted breed? A dog sees a dog, it doesn't see laws or restricted breeds.

Honestly, I think you're just stirring it.

muddypaws

Quality wrote: »

The poor little dog in the story above was probably shocked into seeing a restricted dog breed. Unleashed and presumably unmuzzled in a public place.

Not surprised it chased you off.

You're lucky it wasn't the Garda chasing you with a hefty fine!

Perhaps you'd care to point out where the OP said it was a public place? You have presumed that the large area that they go with their dog is a public place, but perhaps it isn't. You know what they say about when people assume things

Quality

Hello op, can you please clarify if it is a public place?

tk123

aonb wrote: »

jAnd another generalization is that if you say one word to these people when out walking (if theres doggie hassle/aggro) they will go into attack-mode (worse than their un-restrained dogs!!)

Well I don't care who thinks I'm a madwoman (or more of one lol!) but I've every intention of telling people with out of control dogs to GTFO away from my pup! My big guy is 4 and was snapped at by a little sh1t of a dog at 3 months old - 4 years on and he'll stand his ground with the same dog 99% of the time but it took me years of work to build his confidence back up. I've blacklist of local dogs in my head that I won't be allowing near her both big and small because they've no doggy manners and how they play is imo unacceptable.

anniehoo

Quality, please curb the antagonistic tone you are using before you respond in this thread again. You are single handedly responsible for derailing this thread with your unnecessary inflammatory attitude right now.

Do not reply to this post.Thank you.

Dodd

I love it when people troll here.:)

anniehoo

Dodd wrote: »

I love it when people troll here.:)

We're ALL aware not to rise to the bait, so if anyone has any issues with a poster please use the report function.

Quality

Tk123 what breed of dog do you have?

angelfire9

The op made me laugh
I was dog walking/ house sitting for a mate yesterday
Two dogs one german Shepard x one JRT x
And the JRT was the one snapping at everything and I mean everything :rolleyes:
Small dog complex

Ooh and before I'm asked both on leads and BOTH muzzled not my dogs I'm not taking chances (as approved by owners in advance) :pac:

The Sweeper

fatmammycat wrote: »

I'm actually beginning to wonder, is it just because the dogs are small that folk don't train them? OR is it because they're not physically capable of doing real damage that people seem to let them do as they wish?

I think in your case, the fella calling his dog a dolt is probably mortified that he has no control over him. Years ago an off-lead labrador rushed through my yard when I lived rural and its owner drove up and got out of the car - my friend had the dog by the scruff and it was absolutely cracking the shits to get away from her. The owner helplessly shows me this cow knuckle bone he has in his hand and says 'What sort of dog won't want something like this?'

He genuinely had no idea how to motivate or recall his dog. Sounds like your small dog owner is the same way.

Having a smaller dog that's badly behaved is annoying, ridiculous, poor show and so on - but it's just not as bad as a bigger dog. It's not as intimidating, or at as great a risk of doing harm through relatively innocuous interaction as a larger dog (see: jumping up on you. Jack russell: annoying. 30kg+ dog: likely to knock you on your arse.) It's also not quite so 'in your face', so while the owner of a large dog will hit 8 months of age and go 'oh dear, I really can't control this, best get some training in' even if they hadn't a clue from the outset, the small dog owner may carry on regardless until they end up the owner of a tiny terror.

I recently minded a friend's six month old JRT cross (second gen JRT/border collie cross) and it's going to be a tiny terror. She's doing good work with him - sit, drop, stay, all nailed - but he's full of beans, heading into his adolescence and to me she needs to have an iron hand right about now. By that I mean NO out of line behaviour goes ignored. I'll give you an example - this pup is a jumper. He's like he's on a bleedin trampoline most of the time. Because his owners are tall and he's so little, he greets them up on his back legs, jumping, and also stands leaning his front paws against a thigh while they absent mindedly scritch him behind the ears.

He got to this house for the weekend and the husband and I corrected him on autopilot all weekend every time he danced about like a porkchop, and by Monday afternoon there was a lot less jumping than he started with. Still though he'll go home and, because it doesn't bother them, they won't correct it. (It bothers us - we HATE jumpers.)

So yeah, the upshot is that I think it's a combination of not knowing how to train, and then not being sufficiently bothered by the behaviour because it's a small dog.

Quality

angelfire9 wrote: »

The op made me laugh
I was dog walking/ house sitting for a mate yesterday
Two dogs one german Shepard x one JRT x
And the JRT was the one snapping at everything and I mean everything :rolleyes:
Small dog complex

Ooh and before I'm asked both on leads and BOTH muzzled not my dogs I'm not taking chances (as approved by owners in advance) :pac:

Ha ha nice to see some responsibility!

It's the Yorkshire terriers that I find have the nasty streak in them. Little snappers.

JRT will always have a bark at my girl (LAB) when out walking. She has no interest in them. Prefers to sniff arses of larger dogs

fatmammycat

Quality wrote: »

The poor little dog in the story above was probably shocked into seeing a restricted dog breed. Unleashed and presumably unmuzzled in a public place.

Not surprised it chased you off.

You're lucky it wasn't the Garda chasing you with a hefty fine!

I am going to respond to this as it seems you have not correctly read my post: where I walk my dog is not public property, but owned by a private club. I have a great realtionship with the DW of my area as he knows me to be a highly responsible owner and I doubt the Garda would think differently.
The dog I spoke of attacks large dogs, both RB and non RB dogs, once they are large. My own dog, who happens to be RB, is both unmuzzled and off leash when these attacks -though I do not call them thus- occur.
This dog does not 'chase off' my dog or any other, but rather charges across long distance, barks madly, attempts to be aggressive, then follows me until his owner comes over to collect. The reason I brought up the entire post it that I find many off-lead small dogs go hell for leather at large dogs, and I suppose I was curious if other owners of RB or large dogs felt much the same.

angelfire9

Quality wrote: »

Ha ha nice to see some responsibility!

It's the Yorkshire terriers that I find have the nasty streak in them. Little snappers.

JRT will always have a bark at my girl (LAB) when out walking. She has no interest in them. Prefers to sniff arses of larger dogs

Not responsibility paranoia

tk123

Quality wrote: »

Tk123 what breed of dog do you have?

Are you asking out of interest or to push your anti-RB agenda?

Quality

fatmammycat wrote: »

I am going to respond to this as it seems you have not correctly read my post: where I walk my dog is not public property, but owned by a private club. I have a great realtionship with the DW of my area as he knows me to be a highly responsible owner and I doubt the Garda would think differently.
The dog I spoke of attacks large dogs, both RB and non RB dogs, once they are large. My own dog, who happens to be RB, is both unmuzzled and off leash when these attacks -though I do not call them thus- occur.
This dog does not 'chase off' my dog or any other, but rather charges across long distance, barks madly, attempts to be aggressive, then follows me until his owner comes over to collect. The reason I brought up the entire post it that I find many off-lead small dogs go hell for leather at large dogs, and I suppose I was curious if other owners of RB or large dogs felt much the same.

Well why don't you ask the owners of the private club to kick out this guy and his stampeding dog ?

fatmammycat

Quality wrote: »

Well why don't you ask the owners of the private club to kick out this guy and his stampeding dog ?

As opposed to talking to him personally? Again, I think you are missing the point for some reason. I'm not overly worried about his dog- or my own dog as he is maturing to a pretty stable dog, my question was about small dogs and why is seems to be a-ok for them to do whatever they wish without sanction? I mean I would completely understand if a person was upset if my GSD was acting badly, why not smaller dogs?

fatmammycat

tk123 wrote: »

Well I don't care who thinks I'm a madwoman (or more of one lol!) but I've every intention of telling people with out of control dogs to GTFO away from my pup! My big guy is 4 and was snapped at by a little sh1t of a dog at 3 months old - 4 years on and he'll stand his ground with the same dog 99% of the time but it took me years of work to build his confidence back up. I've blacklist of local dogs in my head that I won't be allowing near her both big and small because they've no doggy manners and how they play is imo unacceptable.

It is awful: my guy was attacked on leash at around 9/10 months by a maltease cross and it took ages to retrain him to view small white dogs as nothing to worry about ( and many trips around a particular park where small dogs are prevelant).

inocybe

I've been charged by a snarling terrier whose owner looked over his wall, saw my large dog, and said 'let him teach him a lesson'. My dog on lead with his tail tucked way down between his legs >:(

It has taken weeks of work to be able to walk past that house again.

fatmammycat

inocybe wrote: »

I've been charged by a snarling terrier whose owner looked over his wall, saw my large dog, and said 'let him teach him a lesson'. My dog on lead with his tail tucked way down between his legs >:(

It has taken weeks of work to be able to walk past that house again.

This is exactly what I mean, teach him a lesson. I mean what on earth lesson would be taught here? It a really weird attitude. Also being charged, by any dog, big or small, is an unpleasant experience.