A minor rant amongst friends.

moy83

What breed is a GSD ? German sheppard ???

Hooked

moy83 wrote: »

What breed is a GSD ? German sheppard ???

It is indeed. Or as we used to say back in the 80's.... Nice Alsatian kiiiiiddd!

gimmick

I hate JRTs. Every time we come across one when out walking they are always creating. Last week, we put our cocker back on his lead when we saw a JRT approaching with his owner as we pretty much knew if we didn't, there would be a fight.

It seems we put our fella at a disadvantage as the JRT ran at ours and latched on. We always carry a bottle of water so sprayed that and he let go, but the owners response - "he's only a pup". So is our fella, yet he has never ever even bourn his teeth at another dog unless provoked.

Surely it cannot just be the owners and these dogs are just aggressive little shíts who should be muzzled and kept on a lead?

/rant.

FTR, I have similar issues with Bichon Frises. Very narky dogs as well.

fatmammycat

Funny Gimmick, JRTS and Westies are the two breeds I watch out for when running. They are quite nippy dogs it seems. 'Only a pup' by the way is no excuse at all.

Plopli

Lot's of valid points here ...

But here is my take on it.

• Lot's of dog owners do not do their homework before getting a dog.
  Everyone should know that training a JRT will probably be longer and need more work than training a GSD.
  GSD are bred to be trained. JRT probably not so much ...
  Same, if you get a scent hunting dog like a Basset. Good luck with the recall when he picks up a scent ...
• Lot's of persons get a dog for the companionship(nothing wrong with that) without realizing that a dog need more than that.
  And this probably happen more with small dogs.
  When they realize that a dog needs leadership and mental stimulation and more than what they expected, small dogs owner probably give up more easily as they see less danger than if they were large dogs.
• Smaller dogs are usually seen as less of a threat so these behavior are less readily corrected and as we all know, dogs are really quick at picking up what you are ready to accept or not (be it good or bad).
• Lots of person getting a dog have no clue at all on how to train them and they are not willing to spend the time doing it anyway.
  This is also probably more prevalent with small dogs owners as they think they cannot do much damages anyway.

And it always boils down to one think: the owner ...

If there need to be something done, there should not be a lobby for putting dogs on a restricted breed list but a lobby on having a dog ownership permit ...

Gumbi

Very similar situation to I have, OP (including GSD :P). Don't want to be anti small dog, but I do get annoyed when people cross the road once they see me coming, and/or pick up their dog as I pass. Less of an issue, but some owners' dogs go ballistic and it's overlooked as they're "only small things, sher they do no harm".

My girl is a small shepherd too! Only about 25KG. As quiet as a mouse. Extremely polite.

kylith

OP, on behalf of responsible owners of small snappy dogs; sorry. That guy was an idiot.

My problem tends to be big, friendly, off lead dogs. There's nothing worse than telling an owner to call their dog back and for them to go 'Oh, he only wants to play', and then look shocked as the dog bounces too close to mine and they turn into furies. 'Your dog might be friendly,' I say, 'but that doesn't mean they all are'.

fatmammycat

kylith wrote: »

OP, on behalf of responsible owners of small snappy dogs; sorry. That guy was an idiot.

My problem tends to be big, friendly, off lead dogs. There's nothing worse than telling an owner to call their dog back and for them to go 'Oh, he only wants to play', and then look shocked as the dog bounces too close to mine and they turn into furies. 'Your dog might be friendly,' I say, 'but that doesn't mean they all are'.

Oh I'd agree with this too Kylith, I think recall is THE most important thing you can teach a dog, so it's frustrating that so many owners don't realise it.

kylith

fatmammycat wrote: »

Oh I'd agree with this too Kylith, I think recall is THE most important thing you can teach a dog, so it's frustrating that so many owners don't realise it.

Absolutely. I can't trust mine off lead so I don't let them off lead. If I do let them off I recall them and put them back on lead as soon as another dog is as much as a speck on the horizon. This way everyone can enjoy their walk.

tk123

kylith wrote: »

here's nothing worse than telling an owner to call their dog back

Oh I'd prefer if people asked me to call my guy back (not that he runs over to other dogs but say if he's ahead/to the side of me minding his own business in a usually WIDE radius they find unacceptable etc) instead of the theatrics some of them put on - lifting the dog, screaming, praising the dog for barking and snapping at my dog etc.
I had a (dogless) person who was afriad of dogs waving at my dog to go away as we crossed a field and he was nowhere near her as he was making a beeline for the water - now she thought she was shooing him from afar but he thought she was welcoming him with open arms - and she litterally was lol! :P I find having him recall to the whistle always makes a good impression/shows that I've actually trained him and people will relax a little.

Bannasidhe

kylith wrote: »

OP, on behalf of responsible owners of small snappy dogs; sorry. That guy was an idiot.

My problem tends to be big, friendly, off lead dogs. There's nothing worse than telling an owner to call their dog back and for them to go 'Oh, he only wants to play', and then look shocked as the dog bounces too close to mine and they turn into furies. 'Your dog might be friendly,' I say, 'but that doesn't mean they all are'.

Seconded. I have 3 JRTs - 2 are rescue dogs so I didn't have them as pups and due to past abuse they need a lot of patient, consistent, work- but I never leave the house without a bag of small treats and spend walk time teaching them to sit on command, recall, follow hand signals etc.

Part of this training is having them off leash on the training grounds of a local soccer club (private property). If the do as told, they get a treat - failure results in the offender being immediately put on leash.

I cannot count the number of time large dogs have come bounding over, with no owner in sight, and harassed the living daylights out of my 3 - they have all ended up with seriously bruised ribs due to being run over by some 25Kg uncontrolled dog. 25 kg vs 5 kg never ends well. Even if, as I have been told many times ' sure he's only playing'.
Only last month I had to cut their walk very short as an unleashed and unaccompanied Bernese Mountain dog continually attempted to mount one of mine - she was on leash. It followed us all the way home - trying it on the whole way. It was only due to her training she didn't lose the plot and try and savage him. Now this JRT was horribly abused, abandoned to starve and we think had been in a puppy farm. When we adopted her it was touch and go if she would live. Yet, she did not turn on her would be rapist - she kept moving away (hard when on a leash) and followed my commands.

Two days ago we encountered a large bulldog who dragged a man and woman - both of whom were hanging off the leash trying to hold him back - the length of a soccer pitch to get at my three - who really only wanted to play ball with each other.

I do get your point OP - but I don't think it has anything to do with the size or the dog and a lot more to do with the owners.

Pumpkinseeds

I see a lady near me walking her german shepherd every morning and evening. Her dog is always on a leash as it's a built up area and it appears very well trained as it walks along not straining on the leash and is very calm etc. I've lost track of the number of times that jack russell type dogs that are allowed to roam have tried to attack her dog and I have seen her have to take her dog home minutes after taking her out because these dogs are running at and barking at her dog in a very aggressive manner.

Anyone spouting nonsense about little dogs being intimidated by restricted breeds is talking absolute rot. From what I've seen in my area a lot of owners of Jack Russell type dogs are some of the most irresponsible owners I've encountered. Not all obviously, but many of the owners seem to think it's ok to let jr's roam. Apologies to jr owners but I can't stand the breed.

Gumbi

There are 3 separate houses in my estate where, as I walk by, the dogs inside go ballistic. 2 of the dogs are demented collies that I've never seen outside the gates. Sad really. Another house is just 2 small dogs that are extremely yappy. I think it's just a tendency to overlook this kind of behaviour on the owner's part simply because it doesn't look even half as scary as a big dog doing the same kind of thing. Again, absolutely have nothing vs small dogs, moreso their owners

kylith

Gumbi wrote: »

There are 3 separate houses in my estate where, as I walk by, the dogs inside go ballistic. 2 of the dogs are demented collies that I've never seen outside the gates. Sad really. Another house is just 2 small dogs that are extremely yappy. I think it's just a tendency to overlook this kind of behaviour on the owner's part simply because it doesn't look even half as scary as a big dog doing the same kind of thing. Again, absolutely have nothing vs small dogs, moreso their owners

We've said it before; the kind of behaviour people laugh off in little dogs would get a large dog put down quick as a wink. They don't see it as serious because they don't think they can do any harm. A friend of mine who works in a vets says she dreads seeing Shi tzus come in because they're amongst the worst for biting, but the owners don't take it seriously.

mosi

I have both an RB and two small dogs, and I have noticed quite a difference in a lot of owners attitudes since getting the big boy (either that or our new walking route has politer dog owners!).
I have had so many problems with people allowing their dogs run up to my lead reactive terrier. Two Jack Russells went for him once, which marked the beginning of his leash reactivity. I have had a number of incidents where people see him flipping out while on his lead, and still let their dogs run up to him. Such owners have even laughed in these situations. There definitely seems to be a lot of people who think that small dogs are funny when they show undesirable behaviour. It's absolutely maddening, as every uncontrolled encounter is a step back on the progess we've been making.
As for the big boy, we now use a walking route where I have full visibility of anyone approaching in the distance. He has some off lead time and has very good recall, and I put him back on as soon as I see someone up ahead as the track is a bit narrow for him to pass them at a comfortable distance. I have noticed that just about everyone puts their dog on the lead when they see mine. As I said, I don't know if they are just more clued in on this route, or if his appearance makes them play on the safe side. He actually prefers small dogs to bigger ones, despite him being bigger than most dogs that we meet.

tk123

Bannasidhe wrote: »

25 kg vs 5 kg never ends well. Even if, as I have been told many times ' sure he's only playing'.

I disagree with this part - a well socialised dog will tailor how their play to suit their playmate. My dog is 33kgs and plays with our 12 week old/7kg puppy and one of his best friends is a JRT - he knows they're smaller and is much gentler with them than he'd be with a bigger dog.

Gumbi

kylith wrote: »

We've said it before; the kind of behaviour people laugh off in little dogs would get a large dog put down quick as a wink. They don't see it as serious because they don't think they can do any harm. A friend of mine who works in a vets says she dreads seeing Shi tzus come in because they're amongst the worst for biting, but the owners don't take it seriously.

And worse again, it can be blamed on my dog! "You're dog is scaring my dog". Ha. Very funny.

Bannasidhe

tk123 wrote: »

I disagree with this part - a well socialised dog will tailor how their play to suit their playmate. My dog is 33kgs and plays with our 12 week old/7kg puppy and one of his best friends is a JRT - he knows they're smaller and is much gentler with them than he'd be with a bigger dog.

I believe I was clear when I was referring to large dogs running around with no sign of an owner never mind a leash.

2 years ago we had to hospitalise my now deceased but then 15 year old JRT when her ribs were fractured by a GSD 'who was only playing' - playing in this instance was charging at her ribs head first to bowl her over. In her day she would have avoided him with ease but aged 15, blind and arthritic she didn't stand a chance.

I was not talking about 'well-socialised' dogs - I was talking about large dogs allowed to roam free also being an issue -giving the other side of the coin and telling it from the perspective of the JRT and their owners.

BalbrigganGirl

Totally agree with the above post - my JRT is the gentlest girl ever - has never grumbled in her life.
She is 14 - partially blind and fairly deaf but a lively girl still.
I am SO sick of large dogs running up to us whislt the owners shout " it's ok he/she is friendly "
My dog is on the leash for a reason - my other JRT is a super little rocket who really does love other dogs and thinks everyone wants to play with her which isn't the case - again - looking at it from the other side of the coin I would rather a Bishon ran at me and mine than a 25K restricted breed with whether you agree with it or not should not be off the leash by law.
Seems to be ok to small dog and particularly JRT bash but from experience should I offer an opinion on my bad experiences over the years with GSD's and Rotties and Boxers - I am sure I would be the worlds most ignorant person ever !

ShaShaBear

My own fella, a collie cross, has become the most leash-reactive dog I've ever come across thanks to off-lead dogs with no training (and admittedly, I've only ever had a confrontation with one who was larger than a spaniel, so the onus is on small dogs here). He used to be so friendly with other dogs, and now he turns into a snarling, snapping, screaming menace with hackles to there and back again when we walk past another dog. I've tried desensitising him at a behaviourist's request. It was working really well, he'd just stop and look on rigidly when another dog passed. And then I walked him through a popular park in Dundalk, and he got mauled by two stocky terriers. Left him with a badly cut ear, a weeping eye and a bad limp. My poor baby was absolutely terrified, wet and soiled himself three times at home that night every time he heard a dog bark. The owner was present, with no leads in her hands, and she made no effort to intervene until one of the terriers got a nasty kick in the face (which I know was dangerous, but I didn't have time to think). She ran at me with a stick and told me to "back the cluck away from my baby!".

Thanks to that complete backtrack in progress, I have to turn and walk in the opposite direction if I even see someone coming with a dog smaller than Shadow. It has even lead to me having to go back into my house until they are out of sight.

kylith

BalbrigganGirl wrote: »

Totally agree with the above post - my JRT is the gentlest girl ever - has never grumbled in her life.
She is 14 - partially blind and fairly deaf but a lively girl still.
I am SO sick of large dogs running up to us whislt the owners shout " it's ok he/she is friendly "
My dog is on the leash for a reason - my other JRT is a super little rocket who really does love other dogs and thinks everyone wants to play with her which isn't the case - again - looking at it from the other side of the coin I would rather a Bishon ran at me and mine than a 25K restricted breed with whether you agree with it or not should not be off the leash by law.
Seems to be ok to small dog and particularly JRT bash but from experience should I offer an opinion on my bad experiences over the years with GSD's and Rotties and Boxers - I am sure I would be the worlds most ignorant person ever !

I understand what you're saying but in the last 5.5 years with my dogs I've encountered 1 aggressive Rottie, 1 aggressive Golden Retriever, several collies who try herd anything that moves (which isn't on either), 1 aggressive collie, 0 aggressive pitts/staffs/AM bulls (and I live in an area with a lot of 'hard men'), but more snapping, snarling, vicious small dogs than I can count, whether poms, JRTs, Westies, terrier mutts.

Big dogs do more damage when they attack, but small dogs seem to be worse for aggression in general. I have a theory that it's down to both breeding and socialisation: A terrier is bred to go to earth and face unknown peril with animals which may be much larger than it, so a tendency for fearlessness (or rather, fear aggression) was bred in. Today many dogs are undersocialised and therefore become afraid of other dogs, but terriers have been bred to attack things they're afraid of which can make them more likely to be aggressive to other dogs.

fatmammycat

BalbrigganGirl wrote: »

Totally agree with the above post - my JRT is the gentlest girl ever - has never grumbled in her life.
She is 14 - partially blind and fairly deaf but a lively girl still.
I am SO sick of large dogs running up to us whislt the owners shout " it's ok he/she is friendly "
My dog is on the leash for a reason - my other JRT is a super little rocket who really does love other dogs and thinks everyone wants to play with her which isn't the case - again - looking at it from the other side of the coin I would rather a Bishon ran at me and mine than a 25K restricted breed with whether you agree with it or not should not be off the leash by law.
Seems to be ok to small dog and particularly JRT bash but from experience should I offer an opinion on my bad experiences over the years with GSD's and Rotties and Boxers - I am sure I would be the worlds most ignorant person ever !

I'm not trying to bash JRTs, I would rather NO dog charged people or other dogs, that's why recall is so important. In my case, the original post, this little dog ran an entire field to reach my dog and believe me, big or small, nobody wants to see that, though I take your point it would have been far scarier had it been a much larger dog.
Uncontrolled dogs create huge problems for everyone. My dog is maturing into a pretty pleasant creature, so I don't want his training to slide because of uncontrolled dogs, I don't want him to feel he has to defend him or me when out. Leash reactivity is a massive issue and hard to break, if at all. I understand large dogs have the potential do do more physical damage and I hate reading about small dogs being hurt or knocked down or scared, ditto people, but small dogs can do untold damage psychologically and it seems to me that they (and I can stand to be corrected here) are let away with a great deal more when out and about. The casual attitude of the man in my OP being my case in point, hence my mini rant.

Kukey

I also have both,a GSD and a Jack Russell.I have to say in all my years walking dogs,I have never had any problems with small dogs attacking my dogs.
The ones I have had problems with are Boxers,Whippets and Huskeys.My JRT is well trained and if I see a dog leashed,I call her to heel until we pass by.
She is great with all dogs and loves to play,but she is afraid of large boisterous dogs who do bowl her over and hurt her.
Then when she runs,these dogs go into prey drive and chase her.She is my first
small dog as I always had large breeds and this is something I always have to watch out for,especially with Huskies.
As usual the owners have the same thing to say ah he is only playing!!
As for this new idea about putting different colour ribbons on dogs,to let people know they have an aggressive dog or reactive dog is a load of rubbish.If you have a dog whether it be RB or non RB and you know this dog is aggressive with other dogs,then put a muzzle on the dog.Even if you keep the dog on a lead,another dog is bound to run over.This is what muzzles are for,not for putting on lovely placid,friendly dogs that happen to be on a stupid list:mad:
My GSD btw is that placid,friendly dog who ignores other dogs and people,she is always muzzled and leashed even though she never leaves my side.

inocybe

Kukey wrote: »

Even if you keep the dog on a lead,another dog is bound to run over.This is what muzzles are for,not for putting on lovely placid,friendly dogs that happen to be on a stupid list:mad:

I don't agree with this. It's rude doggy etiquette to let your dog run up to a leashed dog, and if your dog gets snapped at it's your own fault.

edit, I do agree about the RB list being unfair and rubbish though

TooManyDogs

I have to say my experience is that small dogs are far worse for charging my dogs than bigger dogs, and I think half of it is that people do think it's funny. Normally big dogs will charge up, take stock of being outnumbered 6 to 1, make a few placating gestures and slink off. Where smaller dogs seem to take it as a challenge! Again I've had the "He only wants to play" (eehhh no he doesnt!), "He's friendly" (Not so much!), "It'll teach him his place if he gets a bite" (since when did my lot sneak off to college to get their hDips and become teachers???!?!?), and then there's the outright laughing "look at him thinking he's the big man" :rolleyes:

From the otherside of the coin, I also have 2 JRTs, one is a complete blouse and wouldn't dream of charging someone unless he was following the rest of the pack (btw - This is something that NEVER happens just in case anyone thinks I have a pack of charging lunatics!) but the other one, only 3.5kg, would gladly take on anyone given half the chance. I've corrected her behaviour and re-directed her and she's normally very good now but often the bigger dog's owner negates the correction by laughing or petting her :eek: It's not until I ask them would it be funny if it was a 40kg dog doing X to their dog that they sober up and admit that no, not so funny. I have to then explain that it's for her own social manners to be at ease and well behaved in public situations but also for her own safety, because in my experience 3.5kg does not do well against 15kg+.

tk123

TooManyDogs wrote: »

"look at him thinking he's the big man" .

Heard that in the vet earlier from a guy with a yorkie - 'there's no use training him - he thinks he's an Alsatian ha ha ha'

PucaMama

All im reading here is small dogs this small dogs that especially about the jrts but why is it if we generalise about rb dogs in the same way we are wrong.

Gumbi

PucaMama wrote: »

All im reading here is small dogs this small dogs that especially about the jrts but why is it if we generalise about rb dogs in the same way we are wrong.

Generally speaking the posters here aren't blaming the dog, but the owner. I am anyways.

TooManyDogs

PucaMama wrote: »

All im reading here is small dogs this small dogs that especially about the jrts but why is it if we generalise about rb dogs in the same way we are wrong.

I think most people on this thread are talking about their personal experiences though, and unfortunately small dogs come up more than bigger ones for anti-social behaviour. I think JRTs come up more often because were bred to be fearless and active but are all too often owned by people wanting a 'house' dog and are under trained, under socialised and very under exercised.

Quality

Absolutely no RB dog should be allowed to charge, they should be leashed and muzzled. That's why the law is there. Because there are responsible owners who follow the law when it comes to their rb dog.


Maybe if there was no law, we would be discussing being chased by gsds or rotties whatever.