Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

robopaddy

Same team announced as the last day? Is this manager deluded or what. Fair enough if there were some signs that this system may actually work but that second half performance was completely abject. Only 3 more games left in the league after this one, is there really time to be messing around with this nonsence. Time to pick the best team with the best players available in their best positions because before we know it the championship will be upon us and we'll be in no mans land.

Im not even overly worried about relegation I just want to see progress, consistent performances behind us going into the championship.

Brad1234

robopaddy wrote: »

Same team announced as the last day? Is this manager deluded or what. Fair enough if there were some signs that this system may actually work but that second half performance was completely abject. Only 3 more games left in the league after this one, is there really time to be messing around with this nonsence. Time to pick the best team with the best players available in their best positions because before we know it the championship will be upon us and we'll be in no mans land.

Im not even overly worried about relegation I just want to see progress, consistent performances behind us going into the championship.

Wouldnt be overly worried or surprised over the same team announcement, I can see some changes possibly come next weekend with Fitz cup matches during the week could be some really tired bodies and injuries.. id be interested to know the idea of announcing the side a week in advance.. Not that i think its a bad thing just like to know the theory behind it.. League team announcements are always something you take with a pinch of salt..

hardybuck

PTH2009 wrote: »

would being in division 1B be that bad for us ??

We could blood more players in 1B and they would be less pressure on us but you never know they mite change the structure of the league for 2015 and we mite survive the drop.

Galway will be tough to beat and so will all the other teams in the division.

What more players would we be blooding? It's not as if we've 20 very experienced senior panelists who could take a back seat. We're currently working with a group of developing players, and I'd put about half of the starting team on Sat into that category.

Also, Div 1B is a bear pit. Limerick are Munster champions and they've been stuck down there for a few years now despite losing 1-2 games only each season. It's one team going up and one team going down. We couldn't be too complacent against Limerick, Cork, Wexford or Antrim who are down there currently.

hardybuck

robopaddy wrote: »

Same team announced as the last day? Is this manager deluded or what. Fair enough if there were some signs that this system may actually work but that second half performance was completely abject. Only 3 more games left in the league after this one, is there really time to be messing around with this nonsence. Time to pick the best team with the best players available in their best positions because before we know it the championship will be upon us and we'll be in no mans land.

Im not even overly worried about relegation I just want to see progress, consistent performances behind us going into the championship.

Of the players who came off the bench on Sat, who did you think made an impact? I thought Molumphy was very rusty, and Shanahan was even further off the pace. The other lads weren't on long enough to rate - which is something I'd be critical of - very slow to bring lads on.

Deise Hurler

Hopefully some changes in the forwards by the weekend. Brian O' Sullivan, Pauric Mahony and Jamie Barron just ain't up to the standard for senior intercounty hurling. Barron in a year or two maybe but the 2 ballygunner lads are good club players and no more. Molumphy has to start. After a year off he needs the game time. I know he is injured but would love to see Darragh Fives centre forward when he is fit again. For all the criticism he gets on here at least Maurice always shows for the ball and is a good ball winner. Needs to leave the ball off when he goes on those runs of his but if mcgrath is any good as a coach that can be drilled out of him come the summer. Would love to see a full forward line of Jake Dillon, Seamus Pendergast and Stephen Bennett. Real goal threat there. Bennett of course needs a rest for a few weeks first. To me that is a very strong forward line and alot stronger than the one we are seeing at the moment. In the meantime would like to see lads like breathnach get a run. Need to see a few new lads get a chance or we will be bottom of the league come sunday.

Horseboxhead

Does anyone have the u21 team that played over the weekend?

hardybuck

Deise Hurler wrote: »

Hopefully some changes in the forwards by the weekend. Brian O' Sullivan, Pauric Mahony and Jamie Barron just ain't up to the standard for senior intercounty hurling. Barron in a year or two maybe but the 2 ballygunner lads are good club players and no more. Molumphy has to start. After a year off he needs the game time. I know he is injured but would love to see Darragh Fives centre forward when he is fit again. For all the criticism he gets on here at least Maurice always shows for the ball and is a good ball winner. Needs to leave the ball off when he goes on those runs of his but if mcgrath is any good as a coach that can be drilled out of him come the summer. Would love to see a full forward line of Jake Dillon, Seamus Pendergast and Stephen Bennett. Real goal threat there. Bennett of course needs a rest for a few weeks first. To me that is a very strong forward line and alot stronger than the one we are seeing at the moment. In the meantime would like to see lads like breathnach get a run. Need to see a few new lads get a chance or we will be bottom of the league come sunday.

In fairness to O'Sullivan, the conditions on Saturday night would be very different to the conditions which would best suit him -i.e. hard ground. It's a bit drastic to write him off while playing on brutal sod in February, but Bennett would be miles better when the time is right.

redlead

hardybuck wrote: »

In fairness to O'Sullivan, the conditions on Saturday night would be very different to the conditions which would best suit him -i.e. hard ground. It's a bit drastic to write him off while playing on brutal sod in February, but Bennett would be miles better when the time is right.

In fairness no one is writing Brian O'Sullivan off based on one appearance. He's demonstrated over many games that he is a sub standard player at intercounty level.

Mahony offers absolutely nothing either which he has also demonstrated over a number of years. He fluked a YHOTY nomination basically for taking frees which he isnt even consistent at anymore. He can't win ball and he can't take a score.

I was a big fan of Barron at underage level and he still deserves time. In saying that, he would want to start showing something soon. These guys wouldn't be afforded so much time in other intercounty set ups. We are still waiting for one of these guys to stick their hand up.

hardybuck

redlead wrote: »

In fairness no one is writing Brian O'Sullivan off based on one appearance. He's demonstrated over many games that he is a sub standard player at intercounty level.

Mahony offers absolutely nothing either which he has also demonstrated over a number of years. He fluked a YHOTY nomination basically for taking frees which he isnt even consistent at anymore. He can't win ball and he can't take a score.

I was a big fan of Barron at underage level and he still deserves time. In saying that, he would want to start showing something soon. These guys wouldn't be afforded so much time in other intercounty set ups. We are still waiting for one of these guys to stick their hand up.

I think the reality is that there are a number of these players in and around the same level - perhaps they're all substandard. We're going to either need to be patient with them or wait until a top player emerges.

hardybuck

Pat Bennett's comments here will attract a lot of criticism. http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/bennett-slams-crazy-dismissal-of-son-258970.html

While I know a guy could get a bit emotional after a game like that, considering he is from a tiny club playing a junior final he could do without the disrespecful and snobby attitude.

babs123

hardybuck wrote: »

Pat Bennett's comments here will attract a lot of criticism. http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/bennett-slams-crazy-dismissal-of-son-258970.html

While I know a guy could get a bit emotional after a game like that, considering he is from a tiny club playing a junior final he could do without the disrespecful and snobby attitude.

heard it after the game and thought it was scandalous. no need for it and it was total sour grapes. at the end of the day they were 10points up the last day and threw it away. no point blaming people for that. a fantastic achievement for any club to play in croke park so they should be grateful for that.

babs123

hardybuck wrote: »

I think the reality is that there are a number of these players in and around the same level - perhaps they're all substandard. We're going to either need to be patient with them or wait until a top player emerges.

there is no point playing shane walsh or seamus in that style of game. Its unfair to them. They need high ball and they win there fair share of it to be fair. we have nobody to get a goal now or nobody to take a penalty. this needs to be looked at. goals win games

babs123

I am putting this out there. the six forwards that started on sat night would not win a county title for you in Waterford. I bet people will agree.

Brad1234

babs123 wrote: »

I am putting this out there. the six forwards that started on sat night would not win a county title for you in Waterford. I bet people will agree.

Beg to differ on that one.. Couldnt see Passage DLS, Sion or Ballygunner defence holding it out..

blue note

hardybuck wrote: »

Pat Bennett's comments here will attract a lot of criticism. http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/bennett-slams-crazy-dismissal-of-son-258970.html

While I know a guy could get a bit emotional after a game like that, considering he is from a tiny club playing a junior final he could do without the disrespecful and snobby attitude.

He should apologise for those comments. Soft enough sending off from where I was, but hardly scandalous. And I didn't think Ballysaggart were on top at all at that stage.

Heat of the moment comments I'm sure, but now that he has had a little time he should acknowledge he was unfair.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

Of the players who came off the bench on Sat, who did you think made an impact? I thought Molumphy was very rusty, and Shanahan was even further off the pace. The other lads weren't on long enough to rate - which is something I'd be critical of - very slow to bring lads on.

Molumphy and prendergast have to start. End of. Prender between full and centre and molumphy at wing forward. They have massive experience and both can win dirty ball. The other 4 forwards well all are similar enough so take your pick id go with maurice paudie shane walsh and dillon. Brian o's I never rated dosent have enough presence and jamie barron not up to this level yet. Either of them wouldnt be bad impact subs mind, but neither contribute enough to justify 70 mins.
I think the criticism of maurice and paudie have been v unfair. Paudie mah is a super hurler imo but his shooting is too inconsistent at the moment. Shan just needs to wear his head he can be a match winner but needs to learn to settle himself. Dillon I thought was nearly our worst forward the other night he was shocking but like everyobe else you have to factor in conditions and the heavy training at the moment. Shane walsh looks off the pace aswell id worry whether he can ever regain his best form having been so long out injured. Consider brian o halloran darragh fives and stephen bennett to come into the reckoning it will be interesting to see where they fit into it.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

Pat Bennett's comments here will attract a lot of criticism. http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/bennett-slams-crazy-dismissal-of-son-258970.html

While I know a guy could get a bit emotional after a game like that, considering he is from a tiny club playing a junior final he could do without the disrespecful and snobby attitude.

Not surprised. As much as its been a great fairytale story about the little village getting to croke park the last month or so there was a feeling that they were getting a bit cocky and that all they need do was show up for the final. You dont get all irelands for nothing and certainly not off an antrim club. Proud hurling people where the club scene is a lot healthier than given credit for.

Brad1234

robopaddy wrote: »

Not surprised. As much as its been a great fairytale story about the little village getting to croke park the last month or so there was a feeling that they were getting a bit cocky and that all they need do was show up for the final. You dont get all irelands for nothing and certainly not off an antrim club. Proud hurling people where the club scene is a lot healthier than given credit for.

Didnt hear they were after getting cocky and after meeting quite a few saggart people over the years i wouldnt believe it to be their nature and were quite defeatest from i gather going up last sat knowing how difficult it possibly could be.. Antrim club hurling is pretty strong, the problem lies with the Intercounty team.. Most of the clubs up there have bitter feuds and two of the most contributory teams Loughiel and Cushindall hate the living sight of each other so its never going to work..

Waterford are now trying to play a short pass and move style game with loads of deeper runners having space to run into.. didnt really work on saturday night as its a real high intensity game where conditions under foot need to be a lot harder and plenty of on the group training needs to go into it.. If this is the case then Seamus Prender will only have cameo roles and will only come in with the game is being chased and we need to go more direct..

Its a plan id agree with and at times the other night it showed that it will work but when it goes wrong it looks terrible because you just have 20 guys between both forties looking like an u8 match.. So it needs to evolve into a high press, high intensity game plan where the opposition have no idea who or is there an extra man running free and you're almost creating the illusion that we have an extra man back when really you just have one guy running off the shoulder all the time.. Its takes some level of fitness and mental sharpness which clare have.. You'll ship some scores with it too cause the nature of the game means if it breaks down you'll have the back door open but with young kids we have its worth a go...

Shane Walsh is a guy who gets pigeon holed into the 14 spot but hes a guy id like to see out on the 40 at centre forward.. He has great feet, real team player and his general awareness is top class.. Problem is now he's usually part of a two inside or put in the corner and you may as well have him in the stand. Him going from corner to corner isn't his game. Think he'd be far more effective on the half line.. Cause when you look at it hes no slower than Pauric, Jake who started the other night and competes very well in the air.. People have worked out his a goal getter now so full backs usually let him have it and don't let him play in behind so that trick has sailed and i think we should use him elsewhere..

Deise Hurler

Brad1234 wrote: »

Waterford are now trying to play a short pass and move style game with loads of deeper runners having space to run into.. didnt really work on saturday night as its a real high intensity game where conditions under foot need to be a lot harder and plenty of on the group training needs to go into it.. If this is the case then Seamus Prender will only have cameo roles and will only come in with the game is being chased and we need to go more direct..

Its a plan id agree with and at times the other night it showed that it will work but when it goes wrong it looks terrible because you just have 20 guys between both forties looking like an u8 match.. So it needs to evolve into a high press, high intensity game plan where the opposition have no idea who or is there an extra man running free and you're almost creating the illusion that we have an extra man back when really you just have one guy running off the shoulder all the time.. Its takes some level of fitness and mental sharpness which clare have.. You'll ship some scores with it too cause the nature of the game means if it breaks down you'll have the back door open but with young kids we have its worth a go...

Sounds very much like the tactics used under davy. If we have to watch more of that ****e for the next few years then god help us.

hardybuck

Deise Hurler wrote: »

Sounds very much like the tactics used under davy. If we have to watch more of that ****e for the next few years then god help us.

The All Ireland finals that his Clare team participated in were among the best and most exciting we've ever seen.

shoddy14

Deise Hurler wrote: »

Sounds very much like the tactics used under davy. If we have to watch more of that ****e for the next few years then god help us.

hardybuck wrote: »

The All Ireland finals that his Clare team participated in were among the best and most exciting we've ever seen.

Not entirely the same tatics. He has tweeked them since joining Clare. But look at it this way, where is our primary ball winner who can also take a score aka John Conlon. Where is our free scoring half forward with electric pace who can cover the ground and strike off either side from 65 yards out aka Tony Kelly. Where is our playmaker aka Podge Collins. Finally where is our inside forward who gets a goal with only a whiff of a chance aka Conor McGrath.. There lies our problem

Ropaire

Deise Hurler wrote: »

Sounds very much like the tactics used under davy. If we have to watch more of that ****e for the next few years then god help us.

What we have so far from McGrath reminds me of Trappatoni, naming teams way too early and leaving players who should be starting on the sideline, then getting everyone to defend in numbers. It's early doors and hopefully what he's trying to do will come good when the ground hardens up a bit. The big worry is that the same problem is there for a while now in that we can't take our scores, I've seen nothing so far to make me think he'll implement anything to sort that out.

hardybuck

shoddy14 wrote: »

Not entirely the same tatics. He has tweeked them since joining Clare. But look at it this way, where is our primary ball winner who can also take a score aka John Conlon. Where is our free scoring half forward with electric pace who can cover the ground and strike off either side from 65 yards out aka Tony Kelly. Where is our playmaker aka Podge Collins. Finally where is our inside forward who gets a goal with only a whiff of a chance aka Conor McGrath.. There lies our problem

I completely agree with you, but there is a perception that Davy was/is a negative manager among some people.

Along with the above, I think we're also missing a level of tenacity there also. I don't think our forwards have enough 'cut' in them, among other issues.

hurler on de ditch

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Lads we're 1 game into a 3 year plan, relax jesus like it's February. Players make mistakes, I was criticising Maurice last week but I thought he was one of the better forwards lads night, the plan in the first half worked well, they got tired in the 2nd half, the shooting will improve....Relax

3 year plan ,,,its like a 51 year plan since 1963

Deise Hurler

hardybuck wrote: »

The All Ireland finals that his Clare team participated in were among the best and most exciting we've ever seen.

Not through using the same tactics. Fast ball into Honan, Shane O Donnell and Conor McGrath was Clare's tactics in those finals.

hurler on de ditch

Brad1234 wrote: »

Wouldnt be overly worried or surprised over the same team announcement, I can see some changes possibly come next weekend with Fitz cup matches during the week could be some really tired bodies and injuries.. id be interested to know the idea of announcing the side a week in advance.. Not that i think its a bad thing just like to know the theory behind it.. League team announcements are always something you take with a pinch of salt..

not much point in some lads working their bollix off in training this week knowing that no matter what they do ,they have no hope of breaking into the side

hardybuck

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

not much point in some lads working their bollix off in training this week knowing that no matter what they do ,they have no hope of breaking into the side

Probably one third of most senior county squads would fit into the above category.

hurler on de ditch

redlead wrote: »

In fairness no one is writing Brian O'Sullivan off based on one appearance. He's demonstrated over many games that he is a sub standard player at intercounty level.

Mahony offers absolutely nothing either which he has also demonstrated over a number of years. He fluked a YHOTY nomination basically for taking frees which he isnt even consistent at anymore. He can't win ball and he can't take a score.

I was a big fan of Barron at underage level and he still deserves time. In saying that, he would want to start showing something soon. These guys wouldn't be afforded so much time in other intercounty set ups. We are still waiting for one of these guys to stick their hand up.

agreed o mahony offers nothing from play ,cant understand how he was left on the frees ,esp when M.Shan and J Dillon on the field

hurler on de ditch

redlead wrote: »

In fairness no one is writing Brian O'Sullivan off based on one appearance. He's demonstrated over many games that he is a sub standard player at intercounty level.

Mahony offers absolutely nothing either which he has also demonstrated over a number of years. He fluked a YHOTY nomination basically for taking frees which he isnt even consistent at anymore. He can't win ball and he can't take a score.

I was a big fan of Barron at underage level and he still deserves time. In saying that, he would want to start showing something soon. These guys wouldn't be afforded so much time in other intercounty set ups. We are still waiting for one of these guys to stick their hand up.

hardybuck wrote: »

Probably one third of most senior county squads would fit into the above category.

not many counties would name the same underperforming side ,with nearly 7 days to go

hurler on de ditch

hardybuck wrote: »

Probably one third of most senior county squads would fit into the above category.

not many counties would name the same underperforming side ,with nearly 7 days to go