Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

Just because people mightn't rate him doesn't necessarily mean that there is an alternative.

Would he get into the KK full back line for example? Absolutely not, he mightn't make their squad even. That's the benchmark in terms of standards.

Very unfair criticism here. I thought he was one of our most consistent players last year. when he came in first in 2010 I thought he was dodgy but in fairness he really grew into the position in recent seasons. The only doubts Id have about him is his fitness he seems to have an awful hard job getting right for the championship every year and plays very little league. That is unsustainable in the long term and youd question if hes really up to 70 mins hurling. But ability wise I think hes well able for full back hes shown that over the past couple years.

On another topic what do people think of skys commentary line up? mike finnerty and that mcintyre fellah with jamesie o connor and nicky english summarising. Basically the same ****e we were subjected to with TV3 the last couple years bar that wooden plank cooper. Big let down

hardybuck

robopaddy wrote: »

Very unfair criticism here. I thought he was one of our most consistent players year. when he came in first in 2010 I thought he was dodgy but in fairness he really grew into the position in recent seasons. The only doubts Id have about him is his fitness he seems to have an awful hard job getting right for the championship every year and plays very little league. That is unsustainable in the long term and youd question if hes really up to 70 mins hurling. But ability wise I think hes well able for full back hes shown that over the past couple years.

On another topoc what do people think of skys commentary line up, mike finnerty and that mcintyre fellah with jamesie o connor and nicky english summarising. Basically the same ****e we were subjected to with TV3 the last couple years bar that wooden plank cooper. Be g let down

Let me be clear: I'm not intentionally singling him out for criticism. I don't think he's done a bad job, and he's probably been an improvement on his predecessors.

If he was to be described as consistent, I would say consistently average. He's done an OK, not been exposed too badly, but not been an All Star quality nominee sort of standard.

However, I don't think you can seperate ability and fitness. They're both very much linked. I also don't think it'd be unfair to suggest he wouldn't make the KK squad.

Don't like Jamesie O'Connor, and I don't think he likes Waterford too much either. Brian Carney will be an interesting addition.

Deiseforall

As we head in to 2014 championship - what consistency have we had at the full back position during the league campaign for 2014 and in the challenge games played since the league ended !! Sunday's game is vital for the County going forward - win or lose ! The whole set up of the full back LINE is vital for Waterford for the next few years. It is essential that we get it right.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

Let me be clear: I'm not intentionally singling him out for criticism. I don't think he's done a bad job, and he's probably been an improvement on his predecessors.

If he was to be described as consistent, I would say consistently average. He's done an OK, not been exposed too badly, but not been an All Star quality nominee sort of standard.

However, I don't think you can seperate ability and fitness. They're both very much linked. I also don't think it'd be unfair to suggest he wouldn't make the KK squad.

Don't like Jamesie O'Connor, and I don't think he likes Waterford too much either. Brian Carney will be an interesting addition.

Think it would be grossly unfair to suggest that given his two best games have been against that same team. Would he get in the Kilkenny fullback line? No, I suppose he wouldn't replace a 5 time all star (give or take) and hurler of the year. If Delaney is the benchmark, does that mean everybody else below him us average?

An absolutely pointless statement anyway, you can't be proven right or wrong and so how can anyone disprove your argument?

In relation to Moran, I think it says more about how Moran is not a centre back than that Lawlor isn't good where he is. Brick does the job now that every centre back is doing since Hickey got destroyed by Corbett. Unfair on Lawlor that hed be singled out as needing extra protection. McInerney got an all star last year, and he not only had a centre back in front of him but a spare man as well. People make the argument that suits them.

blue note

I don't understand the lack of respect we have for Liam Lawlor. He has been our best full back since the legendary Sean Cullinane (who in fairness is legendary at this stage). We are constantly being told that the next full forward he is going to face will destroy him, but no-one has yet. Some day someone will, but it won't mean he was a bad full back all along, it will just mean that he had a bad game / the guy he was marking had a great game.

blue note

Mountainlad wrote: »

Think it would be grossly unfair to suggest that given his two best games have been against that same team. Would he get in the Kilkenny fullback line? No, I suppose he wouldn't replace a 5 time all star (give or take) and hurler of the year. If Delaney is the benchmark, does that mean everybody else below him us average?

Delaney is not an all-star standard full back. Against Kilkenny last year Lawlor had a great game and was easily the best full back on the pitch.

Mountainlad

blue note wrote: »

Delaney is not an all-star standard full back. Against Kilkenny last year Lawlor had a great game and was easily the best full back on the pitch.

Agree on the second point. And Delaney was a natural as a wing back. Think hed adjusted though. Like whose better than him at the moment?

Maher maybe, but hes only back in there now. Need to see more of Peter Kelly. Richie McCarthy is not as good as he was made out to be last year.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

If he was to be described as consistent, I would say consistently average. He's done an OK, not been exposed too badly, but not been an All Star quality nominee sort of standard.

They're both very much linked. I also don't think it'd be unfair to suggest he wouldn't make the KK squad.

Your first point, I would consider his performances last year as being consistently solid. if you want to call it 'consistently average' thats ok too, but I dont think a fullback necessarily needs to be of allstar material to do his job well.

The second point is meaningless really and dosent prove/disprove anything

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

Think it would be grossly unfair to suggest that given his two best games have been against that same team. Would he get in the Kilkenny fullback line? No, I suppose he wouldn't replace a 5 time all star (give or take) and hurler of the year. If Delaney is the benchmark, does that mean everybody else below him us average?

An absolutely pointless statement anyway, you can't be proven right or wrong and so how can anyone disprove your argument?

If you want to play for Cody you have to be able to prove yourself in training, the infamous in house games etc. I couldn't see someone with his fitness issues being accomodated.

If Delaney was the benchmark in terms of standard and consistency, I wouldn't say the rest are average. I'd rate the likes of Peter Kelly, David McInerney, Richie McCarthy and Shane O'Neill as very good full backs. All pretty mobile as well.

hardybuck

blue note wrote: »

Delaney is not an all-star standard full back. Against Kilkenny last year Lawlor had a great game and was easily the best full back on the pitch.

He won an All Star at full back in 2012. I will give Lawlor great credit for a good performance on the day though.

Brad1234

Id prefer Fives... Lawlor does his job but usually concedes 3 or 4 points a game due to his mobility.. He has the centre back sitting on the 30 the two corner backs tucked in beside him and if a fella wins a ball off him when he is pulled out of position he backs off to leave him tap it over the bar.. Least with Fives hes more t*ts out but is mobile and the rest of the defenders aren't covering for him to the detriment of their game.

If Lawlor plays on sunday he'll do fine but the rest around him wont..

Mountainlad

Brad1234 wrote: »

Id prefer Fives... Lawlor does his job but usually concedes 3 or 4 points a game due to his mobility.. He has the centre back sitting on the 30 the two corner backs tucked in beside him and if a fella wins a ball off him when he is pulled out of position he backs off to leave him tap it over the bar.. Least with Fives hes more t*ts out but is mobile and the rest of the defenders aren't covering for him to the detriment of their game.

If Lawlor plays on sunday he'll do fine but the rest around him wont..

Who's covering the goal though? Nobody is.

PTH2009

heard the team are flying in training

Bennett and Daniels are back training on there own not with the team yet

What is everyone expecting next weekend ?? a hiding or a brave performance that will fall just short

tomwaterford

Deiseforall wrote: »

Well, if people don't rate Lawlor - who has been the first choice fullback over the last few seasons - who do ye suggest will fill the fullback position for the senior team for the county going forward ??

he can only be judged on his last performance....last year against Kilkenny...and gave a mighty performance there...how many players did kilk try on him??

Waterford cd

Mountainlad wrote: »

Think it would be grossly unfair to suggest that given his two best games have been against that same team. Would he get in the Kilkenny fullback line? No, I suppose he wouldn't replace a 5 time all star (give or take) and hurler of the year. If Delaney is the benchmark, does that mean everybody else below him us average?

An absolutely pointless statement anyway, you can't be proven right or wrong and so how can anyone disprove your argument?

In relation to Moran, I think it says more about how Moran is not a centre back than that Lawlor isn't good where he is. Brick does the job now that every centre back is doing since Hickey got destroyed by Corbett. Unfair on Lawlor that hed be singled out as needing extra protection. McInerney got an all star last year, and he not only had a centre back in front of him but a spare man as well. People make the argument that suits them.

Moran is a better centre back than brick.. Yes brick is great a getting loose ball and occasionally catching a great high ball but Kevin Moran is a far better hurler and I firmly believe Kevin should b centre back distributing the ball etc.. Richie foley wen fully fit will be a massive addition great hurler and one of the best operators out there on his day

Waterford cd

Brad1234 wrote: »

Id prefer Fives... Lawlor does his job but usually concedes 3 or 4 points a game due to his mobility.. He has the centre back sitting on the 30 the two corner backs tucked in beside him and if a fella wins a ball off him when he is pulled out of position he backs off to leave him tap it over the bar.. Least with Fives hes more t*ts out but is mobile and the rest of the defenders aren't covering for him to the detriment of their game.

If Lawlor plays on sunday he'll do fine but the rest around him wont..

Absolutely 100% agree

tomwaterford

Waterford cd wrote: »

Moran is a better centre back than brick.. Yes brick is great a getting loose ball and occasionally catching a great high ball but Kevin Moran is a far better hurler and I firmly believe Kevin should b centre back distributing the ball etc.. Richie foley wen fully fit will be a massive addition great hurler and one of the best operators out there on his day

moran deos get badly caught for pace at times....id love to see Philip mahony get a run in centre back in a few league games next year

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

If you want to play for Cody you have to be able to prove yourself in training, the infamous in house games etc. I couldn't see someone with his fitness issues being accomodated.

If Delaney was the benchmark in terms of standard and consistency, I wouldn't say the rest are average. I'd rate the likes of Peter Kelly, David McInerney, Richie McCarthy and Shane O'Neill as very good full backs. All pretty mobile as well.

I don't want to say too much more about this, but I would dispute Shane O'Neill being a very good full back and the evidence of that being Shane O'Donnelly, who in Clare is a promising player whos little above average at present scoring 3-2 off him in an all-ireland final. And before we say he's not to blame, I can't see how anyone could not fault him for the 3rd goal when he ran into his own man! Great corner back though (two totally different positions). Also think Richie McCarthy is over rated.

I would maybe agree with you on the fitness factor, but to say talent and fitness go hand in hand? I'd like you to elaborate on that, because Lawlor's are based on having a weakness in his knees, not on how capable a hurler he is. I do remember him playing all through last year, with the exception of the Clare league game when he was ill, and not injured. And from what I know, a lot of that was put down to Pat Flanagan, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised at the extent of the injury list we have this year.

Finally, it's this simple. Which do you think would be a better backline? Lawlor at full back, Bourke in the corner and Fives at wing back, or Fives full back, Coughlan corner and Bourke wing back. If you think it's the latter, then we'll respectfully disagree this time.

Waterford cd

tomwaterford wrote: »

moran deos get badly caught for pace at times....id love to see Philip mahony get a run in centre back in a few league games next year

Moran caught for pace??? Don't think that would be a problem Kevin doesn't lack pace shur he's twice as quick as brick

Mountainlad

Waterford cd wrote: »

Moran is a better centre back than brick.. Yes brick is great a getting loose ball and occasionally catching a great high ball but Kevin Moran is a far better hurler and I firmly believe Kevin should b centre back distributing the ball etc.. Richie foley wen fully fit will be a massive addition great hurler and one of the best operators out there on his day

Moran's distribution is shocking. More hurling than Brick, he's actually got his own limits himself though (comes from being more interested in soccer in his youth). Brick reads the game far better than Moran would, and you don't want your centre back driving up the field out of position.

Conversely, you do want your midfielder doing that a la Moran against Kilkenny last year. And a great man to score from distance. A big fan of him on form, but it would be worth remembering that so far this year, and last year, it's not many great games he had for Waterford.

And as a centre back, I believe he has played 5 games. Tipp in the Munster final in 2011, Michael Ryan's first two league games in charge, and the Clare league game this year. Now, tell me which one of those games went well?

Ballyvoile Boy

PTH2009 wrote: »

heard the team are flying in training

Bennett and Daniels are back training on there own not with the team yet

What is everyone expecting next weekend ?? a hiding or a brave performance that will fall just short

A brave performance that won't fall short hopefully!

I have reviewed my guess on the team to start, based on the belief that Darragh Fives is still injured.

Sok
S Fives L Lawlor N Connors
J Nagle Brick W De Búrca
K Moran Eddie Barrett
Jake D Pauric M Richie F (if fit)
Brian O' S Seamus P D Breathnach

Paudie Prendergast would also be a strong contender to start imo. Ideally, I would prefer to see Donie Breathnach come in as impact sub in 2nd half, as lack of game time at this level might mitigate against him and he would prey on a tired defender in the last 20 mins. He looks to be a similar player in physique, style and speed to Brian O' Sullivan. I haven't seen enough of Barry Coughlan to merit a start in my eyes, but definitely an option from the bench. Gavin O' Brien played v Offaly and definitely merits his place on the panel, but not a starter just yet for me. Colin Dunford also coming to the fore, but possibly a big step up to this level for him just now - impact sub maybe also.

At the moment, Paudie Prendergast probably would bring more to the team than any other player not mentioned in the above 15, so another way of looking at it might be..

Sok
P Prendergast L Lawlor N Connors
S Fives Brick W T De Búrca
J Nagle Eddie Barrett
K Moran Pauric M Richie F (if fit)
Brian O' S Seamus P Jake D

Probably the best 15 players we have fit at the moment (presuming Foley is fit) and on aggregate, the strongest team. What's the story with Ray Barry, does anyone know? Also Brian O' Halloran? Good options in the air there at wing forward on both sides and lads who can take a score from distance. Both wing backs breaking Cork puckouts for Brick to mop up. Jake is as strong as an ox and would give a torrid time to a corner back. Seamus is a no-brainer at FF. I'm inclined to agree with those who say having Kevin Moran at centre back won't get the best out of him and pushing both him and Nagle forward a line is based on getting the hungriest 15 out from the start and best use of resources. Nagle would also back himself for a score or 2 from MF. Eddie Barrett is flying as far as I can see. Lawlor is the safest option at full back for his cuteness.

I'll probably change my mind a few more times before Sunday though, good job I'm not picking the team! Looking forward to it now.

cul beag

Sok
Connors,lawlor,Coughlan
Nagle,Moran,Fives
Brick,Barrett
O Brien,Mahony, Aussie
Dunford,Walsh,Sullivan

Subs,Dillon,Molumphy,Barry,Breathnach,De Burca,Regan,Prendergast x2 and Fizgerald.

That's my thinking on Sunday for what its worth!

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

Moran's distribution is shocking. More hurling than Brick, he's actually got his own limits himself though (comes from being more interested in soccer in his youth). Brick reads the game far better than Moran would, and you don't want your centre back driving up their field out of position.

Conversely, you do want your midfielder doing that a la Moran against Kilkenny last year. And a great man to score from distance. A big fan of him on form, but it would be worth remembering that so far this year, and last year, it's not many great games he had for Waterford.

And as a centre back, I believe he has played 5 games. Tipp in the Munster final in 2011, Michael Ryan's first two league games in charge, and the Clare league game this year. Now, tell me which one of those games went well?

Yea just on moran one of the biggest disappointments of the league for me were his performances. He was very poor by his own standards, nowhere near the level he has shown in recent seasons and looked a bit jaded even at times. Hed be seen as one of our leaders now and we really need him on song on sunday to stand any chance.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

I don't want to say too much more about this, but I would dispute Shane O'Neill being a very good full back and the evidence of that being Shane O'Donnelly, who in Clare is a promising player whos little above average at present scoring 3-2 off him in an all-ireland final. And before we say he's not to blame, I can't see how anyone could not fault him for the 3rd goal when he ran into his own man! Great corner back though (two totally different positions). Also think Richie McCarthy is over rated.

I would maybe agree with you on the fitness factor, but to say talent and fitness go hand in hand? I'd like you to elaborate on that, because Lawlor's are based on having a weakness in his knees, not on how capable a hurler he is. I do remember him playing all through last year, with the exception of the Clare league game when he was ill, and not injured. And from what I know, a lot of that was put down to Pat Flanagan, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised at the extent of the injury list we have this year.

Finally, it's this simple. Which do you think would be a better backline? Lawlor at full back, Bourke in the corner and Fives at wing back, or Fives full back, Coughlan corner and Bourke wing back. If you think it's the latter, then we'll respectfully disagree this time.

If Richie McCarthy is over rated, at least he's rated.

Talent + fitness = performance. Let's take Mullane for example. Would he have been the player he was if he didn't have the pace to burn defenders?

Lawlor as we all know is struggling with his knees for probably the guts of 10 years now. That's been impacting his ability to train since he was an U21 at least. He lacks mobility. This has impacted him without doubt, if he was holding on last year it was through cuteness. There will come a time where his body will force him to stop though, and that could be sooner rather than later.

On your last question, I stated from the outset that we didn't have a whole lot of other options, just that he's towards the back of the line in terms of the better full backs out there. However, I'd just have too much concern for Lawlor's lack of mobility to start him at full back this year. Cork are a very well drilled side with a cute management team, they'll fully exploit any weakness like lack of pace.

On that basis I'd go with the following backline:

Coughlan/Bourke S.Fives Connors
Nagle Brick Prendergast

hardybuck

Shane O'Sullivan has decided not to appear before the DRA, and is accepting his suspension.

Slobbery

Mountainlad wrote: »

I don't want to say too much more about this, but I would dispute Shane O'Neill being a very good full back and the evidence of that being Shane O'Donnelly, who in Clare is a promising player whos little above average at present scoring 3-2 off him in an all-ireland final. And before we say he's not to blame, I can't see how anyone could not fault him for the 3rd goal when he ran into his own man! Great corner back though (two totally different positions). Also think Richie McCarthy is over rated.

I would maybe agree with you on the fitness factor, but to say talent and fitness go hand in hand? I'd like you to elaborate on that, because Lawlor's are based on having a weakness in his knees, not on how capable a hurler he is. I do remember him playing all through last year, with the exception of the Clare league game when he was ill, and not injured. And from what I know, a lot of that was put down to Pat Flanagan, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised at the extent of the injury list we have this year.

Finally, it's this simple. Which do you think would be a better backline? Lawlor at full back, Bourke in the corner and Fives at wing back, or Fives full back, Coughlan corner and Bourke wing back. If you think it's the latter, then we'll respectfully disagree this time.

Agreed, Shane O'Neill is a great corner back but he is not even related to a full back (as you say), O'Donnell had very little work to do, turn take two or three steps strike to the goalies side and he didnt even get a rap of a hurley - there was no-one close enough to him to even do that!!! as I said in a previous post Shane O'Niell got sucked out leaving his man inside, it is ok to be out in front to try and win a ball, but to be sucked out to a forward that is carrying a ball in, allowing him to draw you and pop the pass to a full forward is criminal. I have seen fives get pulled out in similar fashion.
Other backs cant cover that, not when someone is carrying through the ball and looking to create an overlap, it a corner back covered Shane O'Donnell in that situation than it would have just meant the corner forward was free - another overlap.
the thing to do is to hold your line and concede the point, something that lawlor would definitely do

Slobbery

Mountainlad wrote: »

Moran's distribution is shocking. More hurling than Brick, he's actually got his own limits himself though (comes from being more interested in soccer in his youth). Brick reads the game far better than Moran would, and you don't want your centre back driving up the field out of position.

Conversely, you do want your midfielder doing that a la Moran against Kilkenny last year. And a great man to score from distance. A big fan of him on form, but it would be worth remembering that so far this year, and last year, it's not many great games he had for Waterford.

And as a centre back, I believe he has played 5 games. Tipp in the Munster final in 2011, Michael Ryan's first two league games in charge, and the Clare league game this year. Now, tell me which one of those games went well?

I think that Moran is too ponderous a striker to make it as an inter county centre back, I could see him getting blocked or hooked alot - it would be disastrous next to nagle who has the same flaw

Slobbery

I havent seen colin Dunford up close this year, it says in the examiner he is in line to make a debut this sunday - anyone here see him and can saw how he is showing up?

Brad1234

Slobbery wrote: »

Agreed, Shane O'Neill is a great corner back but he is not even related to a full back (as you say), O'Donnell had very little work to do, turn take two or three steps strike to the goalies side and he didnt even get a rap of a hurley - there was no-one close enough to him to even do that!!! as I said in a previous post Shane O'Niell got sucked out leaving his man inside, it is ok to be out in front to try and win a ball, but to be sucked out to a forward that is carrying a ball in, allowing him to draw you and pop the pass to a full forward is criminal. I have seen fives get pulled out in similar fashion.
Other backs cant cover that, not when someone is carrying through the ball and looking to create an overlap, it a corner back covered Shane O'Donnell in that situation than it would have just meant the corner forward was free - another overlap.
the thing to do is to hold your line and concede the point, something that lawlor would definitely do

What happens if the on rushing forward has no interest in a point.. Do you keep backing and back until you're on top of the keeper.. The overlap is always created further out the field by a midfielder/forward being run off of and not being tracked.

Shane O Neill only goal id blame him for the all ireland is the one he tried to anticipate and got caught on the wrong side.. The other overlaps he had absolutely no protection whatsoever. If he was to step back and back Clare were going to get goals anyway.. When O Donnell stepped off him he was in acres of space so you question where the corner back cover how where they sucked out..

O Neill was on for an all star last year until the final.. There is a myth built up in waterford about full back play.. Delaney is the best at it in Ireland but supposedly he isnt a 'real' full back.. What is it a big lad who knocks lumps out of fellas covers the goal and lords high ball coming in.. There are no natural full backs of that ilk anymore and lawlor tries to play it that way and he works out well for him but the rest of the team suffer.. If Horgan is Full forward on Sunday we happy enough he racks up a load of points thats ok is it.. And if Harnedy is Centre forward being loose cause the Centre back is trying to protect lawlor and rattles up a few points too thats ok as well cause goals aren't going in..

Goals are inevitable on sunday whether its fives or lawlor and id go fives as he offers more toe and Cork are consistently on the move so the full back at times could be out on the half back line for a stint so id prefer Fives being on the move than lawlor.. Only chance we have is a big man on the edge of square who sticks but that day is gone unless you're really chasing a game with 10 mins to go.

Id see Fives and Richie McCarthy being very similar in their style of play.. McCarthy looks more the part because he is a big stockier but they are both all action defenders.. Id prefer a defender on the front foot than a defender who is happy enough to hang in there he'll look fine but we won't win the game as hes happy enough to concede points.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

If Richie McCarthy is over rated, at least he's rated.

Talent + fitness = performance. Let's take Mullane for example. Would he have been the player he was if he didn't have the pace to burn defenders?

Lawlor as we all know is struggling with his knees for probably the guts of 10 years now. That's been impacting his ability to train since he was an U21 at least. He lacks mobility. This has impacted him without doubt, if he was holding on last year it was through cuteness. There will come a time where his body will force him to stop though, and that could be sooner rather than later.

On your last question, I stated from the outset that we didn't have a whole lot of other options, just that he's towards the back of the line in terms of the better full backs out there. However, I'd just have too much concern for Lawlor's lack of mobility to start him at full back this year. Cork are a very well drilled side with a cute management team, they'll fully exploit any weakness like lack of pace.

On that basis I'd go with the following backline:

Coughlan/Bourke S.Fives Connors
Nagle Brick Prendergast

I really dont see your big issue with lawlor. Youve been the last 2 days trying to convince why he should be overlooked for fullback but your just basing your argument on assumptions and think your kind of clutching at straws. That he has knee troubles with 10 years thats nonsense to be fair. And to say he lacks mobility, anyone who has played against him will tell you hes deceptively quick. I remember running around the fraher field after him in a football game a few years back ill tell you twas 60 mins I thought would never end!
How about basing your opinion on performance and just admit he has done a good job over the past couple years. Im sure management will know well whether hes up for the challenge or not

hardybuck

robopaddy wrote: »

I really dont see your big issue with lawlor. Youve been the last 2 days trying to convince why he should be overlooked for fullback but your just basing your argument on assumptions and think your kind of clutching at straws. That he has knee troubles with 10 years thats nonsense to be fair. And to say he lacks mobility, anyone who has played against him will tell you hes deceptively quick. I remember running around the fraher field after him in a football game a few years back ill tell you twas 60 mins I thought would never end!
How about basing your opinion on performance and just admit he has done a good job over the past couple years. Im sure management will know well whether hes up for the challenge or not

I keep saying that I don't have a big issue with him! Some people seem to get quite defensive about the topic though.

It's actually not nonsense, you're playing silly beggars there. If you look back you that far you will see he was strapped up, and not 100%. I've seen that personally.

cul beag

Slobbery wrote: »

I havent seen colin Dunford up close this year, it says in the examiner he is in line to make a debut this sunday - anyone here see him and can saw how he is showing up?

Showed up well against Offaly but was poor against Tipp. Has been hurling well for his club but this is a big step up. Has pace to burn and if can settle into it quickly he will be a real threat. My fear is maybe its too much too soon but on the other hand he could cause havoc given space and the open spaces in Thurles will definitely suit him. Its that burning question - when is the right time to give these fellas their chance and put your faith in them?

robopaddy

cul beag wrote: »

Showed up well against Offaly but was poor against Tipp. Has been hurling well for his club but this is a big step up. Has pace to burn and if can settle into it quickly he will be a real threat. My fear is maybe its too much too soon but on the other hand he could cause havoc given space and the open spaces in Thurles will definitely suit him. Its that burning question - when is the right time to give these fellas their chance and put your faith in them?

Couldnt agree more. Were in rebuilding territory now anyway time to give youth its chance. If it dosent work it dosent work but you have to start somewhere. Theres not a whole lot to lose at this stage given the amount of lads missing.

conditioned games

robopaddy wrote: »

Couldnt agree more. Were in rebuilding territory now anyway time to give youth its chance. If it dosent work it dosent work but you have to start somewhere. Theres not a whole lot to lose at this stage given the amount of lads missing.

We've been rebuilding for the last 5 years. Last year's all Ireland champions had an average of 22. By the time we'll be just about finished rebuilding we'll have to start again. It's time they stop this talk of rebuilding and deliver a performance, something they haven't done away from home in the league this year. I thought Paudi Prendergast did a good job last year and was good again for UCC at centre back. I can't understand why he's been over looked this year. It's also a year too early for Gleeson to be starting wing forward.

Slobbery

cul beag wrote: »

Showed up well against Offaly but was poor against Tipp. Has been hurling well for his club but this is a big step up. Has pace to burn and if can settle into it quickly he will be a real threat. My fear is maybe its too much too soon but on the other hand he could cause havoc given space and the open spaces in Thurles will definitely suit him. Its that burning question - when is the right time to give these fellas their chance and put your faith in them?

Yes it would be a hell of an ask for a guy to come on from no-where to have and impact.

The last players to do that for us in the munster senior championship are john Mullane (electric against Limerick in 2001 until he went off injured), Eoin kelly against Cork in 2002 and Ken McGrath in 95 against Tipp. So ya all he has to do is measure up to these guys!

Slobbery

Brad1234 wrote: »

What happens if the on rushing forward has no interest in a point.. Do you keep backing and back until you're on top of the keeper.. The overlap is always created further out the field by a midfielder/forward being run off of and not being tracked.

Shane O Neill only goal id blame him for the all ireland is the one he tried to anticipate and got caught on the wrong side.. The other overlaps he had absolutely no protection whatsoever. If he was to step back and back Clare were going to get goals anyway.. When O Donnell stepped off him he was in acres of space so you question where the corner back cover how where they sucked out..

O Neill was on for an all star last year until the final.. There is a myth built up in waterford about full back play.. Delaney is the best at it in Ireland but supposedly he isnt a 'real' full back.. What is it a big lad who knocks lumps out of fellas covers the goal and lords high ball coming in.. There are no natural full backs of that ilk anymore and lawlor tries to play it that way and he works out well for him but the rest of the team suffer.. If Horgan is Full forward on Sunday we happy enough he racks up a load of points thats ok is it.. And if Harnedy is Centre forward being loose cause the Centre back is trying to protect lawlor and rattles up a few points too thats ok as well cause goals aren't going in..

Goals are inevitable on sunday whether its fives or lawlor and id go fives as he offers more toe and Cork are consistently on the move so the full back at times could be out on the half back line for a stint so id prefer Fives being on the move than lawlor.. Only chance we have is a big man on the edge of square who sticks but that day is gone unless you're really chasing a game with 10 mins to go.

Id see Fives and Richie McCarthy being very similar in their style of play.. McCarthy looks more the part because he is a big stockier but they are both all action defenders.. Id prefer a defender on the front foot than a defender who is happy enough to hang in there he'll look fine but we won't win the game as hes happy enough to concede points.

At full back you have to protect the D, if a forward drives on and breaks past you and goals good luck to them, when you stand up strong and let him make the decision than they invariably are happy to take the point.

The first goal was not totally Shane O'Neill's fault, Pat donnellan picked up the ball near his own 65, ran unopposed to the Cork 21 yard line, popped a pass over to O'Donnell who was able to just turn and strike, so O'neill got no help from his defence at all, but in the end he did nothing, he had no chance of stopping donnellans trot and was too fair away from O donnell when he received possession, he was caught in no-mans land and there may as well have been no full back there, he should have retreated back towards his own square, keeping himself to the right of O donnell but between him and the goal. Going to Donnellan was not his job, if Donnellan ran the length of the field and goaled that would have been the fault of the midfield and the half back line before shane o neill came into it.

The third goal was ridiculous, your direct marker has just scored two goals, it is the first 15 minutes of the all ireland final, you race out of position to receive a break from a high ball and leave him inside you directly in front of goal, int he context of the match it was crazy, it was batten down the hatches at that stage, he should have been all over O'Donnell like a rash and should have made sure that O'Donnell didnt win the ball no matter what. instead Shane O'Donnell got the ball into his hand between the 21 and the 13 directly in front of goal, with no-one in front of him but the keeper!! from a high ball into the corner forward position

An experienced full back would not have been caught out like that, O'neiil tried to play it like an all out attacking corner back, doesnt work when you are the man minding the house.

Brad1234

Slobbery wrote: »

At full back you have to protect the D, if a forward drives on and breaks past you and goals good luck to them, when you stand up strong and let him make the decision than they invariably are happy to take the point.

The first goal was not totally Shane O'Neill's fault, Pat donnellan picked up the ball near his own 65, ran unopposed to the Cork 21 yard line, popped a pass over to O'Donnell who was able to just turn and strike, so O'neill got no help from his defence at all, but in the end he did nothing, he had no chance of stopping donnellans trot and was too fair away from O donnell when he received possession, he was caught in no-mans land and there may as well have been no full back there, he should have retreated back towards his own square, keeping himself to the right of O donnell but between him and the goal. Going to Donnellan was not his job, if Donnellan ran the length of the field and goaled that would have been the fault of the midfield and the half back line before shane o neill came into it.

The third goal was ridiculous, your direct marker has just scored two goals, it is the first 15 minutes of the all ireland final, you race out of position to receive a break from a high ball and leave him inside you directly in front of goal, int he context of the match it was crazy, it was batten down the hatches at that stage, he should have been all over O'Donnell like a rash and should have made sure that O'Donnell didnt win the ball no matter what. instead Shane O'Donnell got the ball into his hand between the 21 and the 13 directly in front of goal, with no-one in front of him but the keeper!! from a high ball into the corner forward position

An experienced full back would not have been caught out like that, O'neiil tried to play it like an all out attacking corner back, doesnt work when you are the man minding the house.

Id agree on the 3rd but the pressure had really got him at that stage and he was trying to play himself into the game and it just got worse.. I think by that stage his head was fried and from then on his positional sense was gone even in second half i was watching him doing things he hadn't done all season..

But i don't agree he should stick to his man either and let the fella have a clear run at goal.. He met donnellan by the 30 o donnell had broke right to o neills left very early in the move and id say there wasnt another body within 10 yards of that.. if he just tracked o donnell the midfielder was clean through and then people would say 'why the hell didnt he come to meet him.. Its a difficult one and he possibly should stand off for as long as he can but then he has to go once he makes the decision.. Nothing worse than seeing a defender more occupied with keeping his own man scoreless and not willing to help out another even if it means he is wide open, people wont blame him for it.. O Neill couldnt have been held accountable for the first two goals until he made a mess of the third and then the stats became the evidence rather than the overall picture..

On Lawlor if he starts hope he goes well and ill be behind him 100% but i wouldn't pick him as i think he gets to much protection from others which means it takes from our attacking platform in half back line.. If he does start id play Connors (no brainer but getting a smooth ride over his league appearances compared to fives) and Coughlan beside them for their pace .. then Id have Brick centre back ( he wont be though) with Shane Fives and Tadgh Burke.. Which although is a little inexperienced as someone pointed out early fellas need to play now and get the experience.

Moran will be at 6 and Brick will be midfield though as you dont play them in those positions for a month leading up just to swap..

Slobbery

Brad1234 wrote: »

Id agree on the 3rd but the pressure had really got him at that stage and he was trying to play himself into the game and it just got worse.. I think by that stage his head was fried and from then on his positional sense was gone even in second half i was watching him doing things he hadn't done all season..

But i don't agree he should stick to his man either and let the fella have a clear run at goal.. He met donnellan by the 30 o donnell had broke right to o neills left very early in the move and id say there wasnt another body within 10 yards of that.. if he just tracked o donnell the midfielder was clean through and then people would say 'why the hell didnt he come to meet him.. Its a difficult one and he possibly should stand off for as long as he can but then he has to go once he makes the decision.. Nothing worse than seeing a defender more occupied with keeping his own man scoreless and not willing to help out another even if it means he is wide open, people wont blame him for it.. O Neill couldnt have been held accountable for the first two goals until he made a mess of the third and then the stats became the evidence rather than the overall picture..

On Lawlor if he starts hope he goes well and ill be behind him 100% but i wouldn't pick him as i think he gets to much protection from others which means it takes from our attacking platform in half back line.. If he does start id play Connors (no brainer but getting a smooth ride over his league appearances compared to fives) and Coughlan beside them for their pace .. then Id have Brick centre back ( he wont be though) with Shane Fives and Tadgh Burke.. Which although is a little inexperienced as someone pointed out early fellas need to play now and get the experience.

Moran will be at 6 and Brick will be midfield though as you dont play them in those positions for a month leading up just to swap..

Well he shouldn't have gone with O'Donnell, that would have been a worse decision and opened up the middle, he should have retreated almost to the edge of the square keeping O'donnell to his left albeit ten yards away, that way it is a defender with the ball attacking your goal still with the full back to beat instead of the corner forward with just the goalie to beat, Clare may have scored a goal anyway but the Cork defence made it awful easy, they made donnellans decision for him.

And no, as full back you don't have to come out and meet the man ever, and yes it is ok to stand there and yield a point. It's not about keeping your own man scoreless it is the lesser of two evils.... No goals!

But look it was an impossible position for ONeill, where was his centre back where were his corner backs?

Slobbery

I think we will win Sunday

PTH2009

I hope the match doesn't end in a draw

Have a feeling we will be drawn against Galway or Dublin in the qualifers if we are there.

What a boost a win would do for the team and the supporters.

Cork could run away with the game let's hope they don't

Looking forward to sunday can't believe it's championship time all ready. Anyone else sitting in 208 of the old stand?

brianobarron

Well Lads,

I'm the P.R.O of the 'Friends of Waterford Senior Hurlers'. We launched in Dublin 2 months ago and are pushing again during the championship. As you know hurling in Waterford needs a lift and all the friends it can get at the moment.

We're looking for people to set up a Standing Order from €5 or whatever you can afford a month. 100% of the money goes directly to the squad and the players.

The easiest thing to do is set up the standing order online using our bank details.
Or fill out a standing order form in your own branch.
I've attached our bank details below.

Details:The Friends of Waterford Senior Hurlers - Account Number: 34969064, Sort Code: 93-11-87
IBAN: IE02 AIBK 9311 8734 9690 64, BIC/SWIFT: AIBKIE2D

Look I know moneys tight but I know you're hurling fans so if it's worth €5 a month to you it'll be huge for the players.
If you know anyone else you think might be interested please send this on to them and I'm available to talk to anyone about it but there's no pressure either way.

Facebook; Friendsofwaterfordhurling
web:waterfordhurlers.com - contact details on the website

brianobarron

It's Championship time!

As the Waterford Senior Hurling Team gear up to take on Cork in the first game of the Championship on Sunday 25th May, the Waterford Supporters need to finalise their own preparations in advance of the big game…..

Friends of Waterford Senior Hurlers and the Waterford Supporters Club Dublin are hosting a Social Night in Mulligans of Sandymount, Dublin 4 on Friday, 23rd May from 8.00pm. All Waterford Hurling fans welcome - there's no entrance fee or charge - it's just an opportunity for Waterford fans to meet and discuss the team and the Championship ahead over a drink or two.

We hope to see you all in Mulligans of Sandymount, Friday, 23rd May from 8.00pm for some craic and to start the build up to Championship 2014.

Friends of Waterford Senior Hurlers

brianobarron wrote: »

Well Lads,

I'm the P.R.O of the 'Friends of Waterford Senior Hurlers'. We launched in Dublin 2 months ago and are pushing again during the championship. As you know hurling in Waterford needs a lift and all the friends it can get at the moment.

We're looking for people to set up a Standing Order from €5 or whatever you can afford a month. 100% of the money goes directly to the squad and the players.

The easiest thing to do is set up the standing order online using our bank details.
Or fill out a standing order form in your own branch.
I've attached our bank details below.

Details:The Friends of Waterford Senior Hurlers - Account Number: 34969064, Sort Code: 93-11-87
IBAN: IE02 AIBK 9311 8734 9690 64, BIC/SWIFT: AIBKIE2D

Look I know moneys tight but I know you're hurling fans so if it's worth €5 a month to you it'll be huge for the players.
If you know anyone else you think might be interested please send this on to them and I'm available to talk to anyone about it but there's no pressure either way.

Facebook; Friendsofwaterfordhurling
web:waterfordhurlers.com - contact details on the website

Giveitfong

I've heard that Waterford minor hurlers are playing Dublin in a challenge at St Vincents ground in Marino tonight sometime after 7. Seems like a long way to come for a midweek challenge, but I'm going to head on over there to check it out.

comeraghs

Waterford GAA Supporters Club Dublin AGM/Social evening in the historical GAA Museum, Croke Park on the 5th June. KO 7pm followed by refreshments at 8pm.

We would be delighted to welcome members, new members, family and friends with an interest in Waterford GAA so please spread the word. Please contact craigduignan@icloud.com if you would like to attend.


https://www.facebook.com/pages/Waterford-GAA-Supporters-Club-Dublin/179978495401923

comeraghs

Waterford GAA Supporters Club - Dublin. Annual Golf Day. Sat June 14th 2014 @ Palmerstown House Estate. Co Kildare.

Contact Craig Duignan on 087-2678065 or Eddie McCarthy on 086-0750510 for more details.


€400 per team or €100 for individual or
€100 to sponsor a Tee-Box.


https://www.facebook.com/events/287833781378415/

seananigans

PTH2009 wrote: »

I hope the match doesn't end in a draw

Have a feeling we will be drawn against Galway or Dublin in the qualifers if we are there.

What a boost a win would do for the team and the supporters.

Cork could run away with the game let's hope they don't

Looking forward to sunday can't believe it's championship time all ready. Anyone else sitting in 208 of the old stand?

Am in 206 row d seat 1 :-)

deisedude

Just going to buy my ticket on the day. Doubt there will be a big crowd

deisedude

Just going to buy my ticket on the day. Doubt there will be a big crowd

KevIRL

204 for me row U. Probably the outer limit of the season ticket seats

In LAnzerote now until Sat evening so missing a lot of the build up

seananigans

Hot off the press...Sean Og, Eoin Kelly (Waterford), Fergal Hartley, John Mullane, Tony Browne, Dan Shan, Brendan Cummins, Diarmuid (the Bull) O'Sullivan, Ronan Curran and Eoin Murphy have all already agreed to play in the Ken McGrath All Star Challenge...And that's just the Munster team...who will Coady bring to match these guys???? It's going to be a cracker on the 27th June!!!