Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

robopaddy

I hope to god theres no one on the appeals comittee from wicklow, leitrim, cavan or fermanagh. Bennett would have stroke.....

Slobbery

cul beag wrote: »

Am i right in saying this 16 yr old played in the semi final aswell? If this is true do the beaten semi finalists have a case for a replay or reinstatement?

I thought the same but looked into it and you only have 3 days to launch the appeal so that's why they can't.

I am torn in this, a player being illegal for being underage... :-/ and pat Bennett's comments were disgraceful, they lost a lot of good will there, if only he kept his mouth shut

On the same token BSaggart have some very good young players at that age that they could have played too, some from that point of view it is unfair.

The Creggan officials need to accept the blame, what the hell were they doing playing that lad? They have themselves to blame.

They played an illegal player, they will be thrown out and BSagart will be declared AI champions at a meeting... Yuck.

I feel sorry for the semi finalists creggan beat as they were robbed their chance to play in an AI,

Playing illegal players is stupid and just crazy in this day and age, we all know the rules.

The whole thing is a mockery at this stage though

Hamstrings59

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Finally!!!!

Will people please listen to this!!!!!!!!

I'd find it hard to listen to anyone who claims to never have heard of Stephen molumphy before he was 23!!

PTH2009

how much will it cost to get into the match on sunday if you have a student card ??

Whats the thing with buying tickets online you get a discount

Mountainlad

PTH2009 wrote: »

how much will it cost to get into the match on sunday if you have a student card ??

Whats the thing with buying tickets online you get a discount

Buy em in any centra or super valu anyday up to and including the day Saturday and you get them cheaper.

Students are €10, it seems dicount doesn't apply for them. For some reason I feel it was at most €8 last year?? And Adults on the gate Im pretty sure were €13. I guess there's no harm in them having an initiative to support local Irish businesses.

Hamstrings59

The chap was u16 last year and is u17 this year but is still 16 and hasn't turned 17 yet so according to the rules he's eligible to play adult hurling this year but Ballysaggarts argument is that this competition is a 2013 competition and should disqualify the player - similarly, using an example here, if john Mullane was to say transfer to Ballysaggart for 2014 he would not have been eligible to line out in the Ballysaggart all Ireland series as it was a competition carried over from last year but would be eligible to hurl in the county championship onwards. Both sides have an argue meant here and technically Ballysaggart are correct, if they are found to be correct they should offer a replay instead of being awarded the game and win it or lose it fairly on the field of play.

carter10

Just looking at the National Hurling League Pools Thread and noticed 2 things 1) We're tipped by practically everybody to be relegated and 2) tipped by practically everybody to be beaten by 6 or more last week against Tipp. This togethe with the fact that the bookies have us favs to go down.
All this despitecomfortably staying in the division last year and lost in championship to the eventual winners and the reining champions.
Why is our stock so low?
Look at Tipp- brutal in the Championsip and people are (were) tipping them to win the league. i dont believe Galway or Dublin are better teams than us yet the perception out there is they are.
Hopefully its a good thing as teams will underestimate us. Or maybe I'm just overly optimistic

Mountainlad

carter10 wrote: »

Just looking at the National Hurling League Pools Thread and noticed 2 things 1) We're tipped by practically everybody to be relegated and 2) tipped by practically everybody to be beaten by 6 or more last week against Tipp. This togethe with the fact that the bookies have us favs to go down.
All this despitecomfortably staying in the division last year and lost in championship to the eventual winners and the reining champions.
Why is our stock so low?
Look at Tipp- brutal in the Championsip and people are (were) tipping them to win the league. i dont believe Galway or Dublin are better teams than us yet the perception out there is they are.
Hopefully its a good thing as teams will underestimate us. Or maybe I'm just overly optimistic

It's a continous theme year in year out. It's gotten beyond tiresome but I guess in a lot of peoples eyes we're the crowd that bottled it when we had the chance.

In fairness, the team has done more than enough to prove people wrong since I've been going to games, every year Waterford seem to cause an 'upset'. I really don't like how readily forgotten things like the fact that we were only a puck of the ball away from being in the league final in 2011 or how last year we were again a victory against Galway from topping 1A and potentially being in a league final as well. There was no signs of a relegation threatened team last year, because we were no more threatened by it than anyone else.

That said though, being moral victors is no longer good enough. It was bad enough having to take on the chin the fact that we weren't as good as Tipp in the last few years. But on Saturday we outplayed them and while I do agree the vilification of some players here is ridiculous, at the same time we need to start winning games that we dominate as we saw too many in the last few year that slipped away (Cork 2012, Kilkenny to a point as we could have made dominance count more, Clare 2013, Tipp 2014).


At the end of the day, it is important to remember that championship is king. It's easy to forget (even for me) given the increased threat of relegation posed by a 6 team division as opposed to an 8 team one, but it's on the Championship we'll all be evaluating our season come September.

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

It's a continous theme year in year out. It's gotten beyond tiresome but I guess in a lot of peoples eyes we're the crowd that bottled it when we had the chance.

In fairness, the team has done more than enough to prove people wrong since I've been going to games, every year Waterford seem to cause an 'upset'. I really don't like how readily forgotten things like the fact that we were only a puck of the ball away from being in the league final in 2011 or how last year we were again a victory against Galway from topping 1A and potentially being in a league final as well. There was no signs of a relegation threatened team last year, because we were no more threatened by it than anyone else.

That said though, being moral victors is no longer good enough. It was bad enough having to take on the chin the fact that we weren't as good as Tipp in the last few years. But on Saturday we outplayed them and while I do agree the vilification of some players here is ridiculous, at the same time we need to start winning games that we dominate as we saw too many in the last few year that slipped away (Cork 2012, Kilkenny to a point as we could have made dominance count more, Clare 2013, Tipp 2014).


At the end of the day, it is important to remember that championship is king. It's easy to forget (even for me) given the increased threat of relegation posed by a 6 team division as opposed to an 8 team one, but it's on the Championship we'll all be evaluating our season come September.

Your like me and probably have a bit of blind loyalty to your county, but we have been down the pecking order the past couple of seasons, I believe on merit. We dont have enough quality forwards to win the tight games and thats where we ultimately fell short in the championship the past few seasons. Mullane carried the forwards in his last couple of seasons and we have yet to see signs that anyone else is going to stand up and take that mantle since hes left.

To be honest I dont really care about where anyone else rates us or rates any other county for that matter. Who for example predicted that Cork and Clare would get to an All Ireland last year? Exactly, the bookies and the critics are only second guessing most of the time anyway. Who knows when it might all come right for us

dzilla

Hamstrings59 wrote: »

I'd find it hard to listen to anyone who claims to never have heard of Stephen molumphy before he was 23!!

well he was a late bloomer on the side. He was on the intermediate panel etc but did not make his debut under justin until he was 22/23 i think

TheScoringGoal

dzilla wrote: »

well he was a late bloomer on the side. He was on the intermediate panel etc but did not make his debut under justin until he was 22/23 i think

That's because he spent a year in Australia. He had a decent profile from before that with Waterford underage teams, Ballyduff and NUIG.

robopaddy

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

That's because he spent a year in Australia. He had a decent profile from before that with Waterford underage teams, Ballyduff and NUIG.

And st colmans. Himself and the kearney twins from tallow won back to back harty cup and AI colleges with them.

seananigans

robopaddy wrote: »

Your like me and probably have a bit of blind loyalty to your county, but we have been down the pecking order the past couple of seasons, I believe on merit. We dont have enough quality forwards to win the tight games and thats where we ultimately fell short in the championship the past few seasons. Mullane carried the forwards in his last couple of seasons and we have yet to see signs that anyone else is going to stand up and take that mantle since hes left.

To be honest I dont really care about where anyone else rates us or rates any other county for that matter. Who for example predicted that Cork and Clare would get to an All Ireland last year? Exactly, the bookies and the critics are only second guessing most of the time anyway. Who knows when it might all come right for us

With the loss of Shanahan,and prender, and molumphy not at full fitness, bennet ruled out of joing up for the league ,I think we will be lucky to get anything out fo this league.

I suspect wins against Galway and Dublin could be on the cards,but I doubt that's enough.

on the subject of the minors, i think they should be left well alone at u21 for a year possibly 2 more, it reminds me of when hitler pulled boys out of school and put uniforms on them in the last days of the war ,just stinks of desperation and short term thinking

deiseach

carter10 wrote: »

Just looking at the National Hurling League Pools Thread and noticed 2 things 1) We're tipped by practically everybody to be relegated and 2) tipped by practically everybody to be beaten by 6 or more last week against Tipp. This togethe with the fact that the bookies have us favs to go down.
All this despitecomfortably staying in the division last year and lost in championship to the eventual winners and the reining champions.
Why is our stock so low?
Look at Tipp- brutal in the Championsip and people are (were) tipping them to win the league. i dont believe Galway or Dublin are better teams than us yet the perception out there is they are.
Hopefully its a good thing as teams will underestimate us. Or maybe I'm just overly optimistic

I'm convinced one of the reasons there has been a recurring stink over the format of the League in recent years (more so than usual) has been because we haven't done the decent thing and been relegated. As blue note said in this post, any time we beat any of the top line teams it's seen as a surprise. We're viewed as the GAA equivalent of a bed-blocker.

fricatus

deiseach wrote: »

I'm convinced one of the reasons there has been a recurring stink over the format of the League in recent years (more so than usual) has been because we haven't done the decent thing and been relegated. As blue note said in this post, any time we beat any of the top line teams it's seen as a surprise. We're viewed as the GAA equivalent of a bed-blocker.

LOL, I think you might be a bit paranoid, but I do see where you're coming from, certainly as regards the level of surprise whenever we do well. Year after year, we would barely merit a mention in pre-season previews (the same ones asking "could this be Galway's year?"), yet we ended up in the semis more often than not. :rolleyes:

deiseach

fricatus wrote: »

LOL, I think you might be a bit paranoid, but I do see where you're coming from, certainly as regards the level of surprise whenever we do well. Year after year, we would barely merit a mention in pre-season previews (the same ones asking "could this be Galway's year?"), yet we ended up in the semis more often than not. :rolleyes:

I am paranoid! I scour the media for any slights and insults against Waterford, no matter how insignificant they might seem . Which makes it all the more galling when the likes of Pat Bennett does their work for them...

seananigans

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/doubts-raised-over-eligibility-of-second-creggan-player-259430.html

Doubts raised over eligibility of second Creggan player


The plot thickens

Orizio

Ballysaggart may have a case...but people are far less likely to care when you have people like the Bennett's father ranting and raving like a lunatic.

parish girl

From what I understand Ballysaggart have three very good lads underage that they would love to have had available to play as they were working off a tiny panel especially when the couple of injuries kicked in. Pity about Pat Bennetts rant . I think people would have had more sympathy view if that had nt happened. But two wrongs dont make a right. Awkward one whatever way it pans out now.

premierstone

Slobbery wrote: »

I thought the same but looked into it and you only have 3 days to launch the appeal so that's why they can't.

I am torn in this, a player being illegal for being underage... :-/ and pat Bennett's comments were disgraceful, they lost a lot of good will there, if only he kept his mouth shut

On the same token BSaggart have some very good young players at that age that they could have played too, some from that point of view it is unfair.

The Creggan officials need to accept the blame, what the hell were they doing playing that lad? They have themselves to blame.

They played an illegal player, they will be thrown out and BSagart will be declared AI champions at a meeting... Yuck.

I feel sorry for the semi finalists creggan beat as they were robbed their chance to play in an AI,

Playing illegal players is stupid and just crazy in this day and age, we all know the rules.

The whole thing is a mockery at this stage though

I think you are being a little harsh on the Creggan mentors, its not a rule known to everyone and they assumed as the games took place in 2014 anyone finished u-16 in 2013 was eligible, its not as if they have ever benn in this position either so probably didn't realise that this was considred a 2013 final and subject to that years rules.]]I wouldnt like to be on the appeals board tbh, horrible horrible position to find yourself in, can you imagine having been celebrating all week aswell and then being told, ''ah sorry lads actually we taking that cup and them medals back'' no winners here.

rebel girl 15

Creggan would have probably checked with Ulster council regarding the rule - I hope they got it in writing. It s agrey area with regarding are the All Ireland championship being a new competition or being a carry on of previous competition.

If the appeal is won, it will have other ramifications with regards suspensions carrying over to the following year if a competition is not finished within a calendar year.

With regard the semi finalists, there is no comeback for them looking at the rulebook if Creggan are kicked out, their time limit for appeal is out, and there is a rule specifying it.

comeraghs

If Creggan broke the rules Ballysaggart are well within their rights to appeal.


I'm sure Creggan & any other club who knew the other team had cheated would do the same thing.

Ballysaggart chose to obey the rule & not field their young players and Creggan didn't, That was Creggan's choice. & they have a far bigger pick than Ballysaggart.

Pat Bennett's comments were out of order but in all fairness they were made when he was very emotional immediately after the game where his son was harshly sent off, throwing insults at the man who bleeds Ballysaggart is unfair.

blue note

comeraghs wrote: »

If Creggan broke the rules Ballysaggart are well within their rights to appeal.


I'm sure Creggan & any other club who knew the other team had cheated would do the same thing.

Ballysaggart chose to obey the rule & not field their young players and Creggan didn't, That was Creggan's choice. & they have a far bigger pick than Ballysaggart.

Pat Bennett's comments were out of order but in all fairness they were made when he was very emotional immediately after the game where his son was harshly sent off, throwing insults at the man who bleeds Ballysaggart is unfair.

I haven't heard an apology from him which is deserved. Until I hear it I wouldn't have much sympathy for him receiving insults.

I do agree though that it would be unfair if Ballysaggart are to lose an all ireland to a team fielding two ineligible players. Maybe it was a genuine mistake, but why should Ballysaggart suffer for it?

dzilla

Jaysis, get over the Pat Bennet comments, sure they where said in the heat of the moment. I have heard a lot worse said about that Horan fella and Barry Kelly from all hurling supporters as they are from a non traditional county.

If Creggan broke the rules then she should be pulled on it in my opinion simple as, if they haven't the gaa will swiftly throw the motion out.

deiseach

comeraghs wrote: »

Pat Bennett's comments were out of order but in all fairness they were made when he was very emotional immediately after the game where his son was harshly sent off, throwing insults at the man who bleeds Ballysaggart is unfair.

His comment about referees coming from Wicklow was a bit more than 'out of order'. If someone said something similar about Waterford football, would you accept 'he's a great club man and he was a bit upset' as a valid defence?

dzilla

deiseach wrote: »

His comment about referees coming from Wicklow was a bit more than 'out of order'. If someone said something similar about Waterford football, would you accept 'he's a great club man and he was a bit upset' as a valid defence?

Brolly said alot worse about the Waterford Footballers in the past.

deiseach

dzilla wrote: »

Brolly said alot worse about the Waterford Footballers in the past.

Where did he ever say Waterford men shouldn't be refereeing football? Besides, the stick Brolly gets is merciless. Pat Bennett has gotten off lightly by comparison.

avonmore

I think Ballysaggart are wrong to object, they should have just left it.

I think I saw something though on here about a player transferring to them from Lismore for this year.

If Ballysaggart had played this guy in the semi final and final everyone would have known he would have been illegal.

Is this not the same argument or is it different?

cul beag

comeraghs wrote: »

If Creggan broke the rules Ballysaggart are well within their rights to appeal.


I'm sure Creggan & any other club who knew the other team had cheated would do the same thing.

Ballysaggart chose to obey the rule & not field their young players and Creggan didn't, That was Creggan's choice. & they have a far bigger pick than Ballysaggart.

Pat Bennett's comments were out of order but in all fairness they were made when he was very emotional immediately after the game where his son was harshly sent off, throwing insults at the man who bleeds Ballysaggart is unfair.

I think you're a bit strong with the "bleeds Ballysaggart" stuff. I'm almost certain if you'll do your research he played in Tipperary for 6-7yrs during his playing days,having left Ballysaggart only to return there again.
As for the comments there's no doubt they were said in the heat of the moment but we have yet to hear any sort of an apology from him?
I still think its an awful way to be awarded an all Ireland if it comes to pass. Any genuine players will tell you winning it on the field is the only way. How can they ever celebrate it?

Brad1234

I think the Club knew exactly what they were doing and thought they would get away with it..

Any club or gaa person worth there salt would know that club all Irelands although don't finish in the calender year incorporate the previous years rules.. So you'd want to be an absolute clown to pick guys who were ineligible the previous year.. So albeit ballysaggart lost i would usually be of the mindset 'ye lost get over it' this particular type of breach of rules really annoys the crap out of me cause its so blatantly clear and obvious to people playing gaa from such a young age..

This we didnt know cause he is 17 now doesn't wash with me at all and quite frankly its the usual gaa if you go in to the meeting and play dumb you'll usually get away with it..

Problem with Pat Bennetts comments and 95% of the gaa stock are he said it in public forum so people would want to get off there high horses fairly quickly.