Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

Ah now, slightly is a big understatement. Going to Dungarvan trebles the journey time.

Yeah, I didn't look at the times at all myself. 6pm doesn't make any sense to me at all.

50 mins from Passage apparently and 35 minutes from Ballyduff apparently, as opposed to 20 mins and 1 hour if it was in Walsh Park. So I think it's fair enough to be honest.

If you took the whole round trip journey into account Ballyduff gain ½ an hour whereas the other way round would see Passage have a 1hour and 20mins shorter journey the other way which is nearly 3 times as long as the extra journey Ballyduff Upper have this time.

Sorry just read back what you quoted, meant to say Passage have a slightly longer journey to Fraher Field than Ballyduff Upper have.

Ballyvoile Boy

Mountainlad wrote: »

This is the fixture list courtesy of Jarjohn back in January/February:

U21 A: Semis- Dungarvan v Cappoquin/Abbeyside and Lismore/ClashmorevComeragh Gaels
Starting Aug/Sep

U21 B: Semis- Ardmore/FMW v An Gaeltacht/Ballyduff and St Olivers v Tallow/Brickeys
Starting Aug/Sep

Not sure the exact times and dates, I know last week's observer mentioned it as the opening game but I've heard nothing about the start time for the other games. These are just Western board fixtures, dunno what the East line ups are.

Thanks lad, I'll have to keep an eye and ear out as I had a look on our county 'website' and predictably, there's nothing there.

Re the grub for the 1/4 finals, I'd say that is by design more than anything. They would be looking for people to pay in again after teatime. Nothing surer, as the pennies are scarce.

Mountainlad

Ballyvoile Boy wrote: »

Thanks lad, I'll have to keep an eye and ear out as I had a look on our county 'website' and predictably, there's nothing there.

Re the grub for the 1/4 finals, I'd say that is by design more than anything. They would be looking for people to pay in again after teatime. Nothing surer, as the pennies are scarce.

Was thinking the same myself like, presented as great value but only the most avid Waterford club followers would stay for three games.

Not sure though are they gaining an advantage on this though, as people will more likely jsut leave than leave and then comeback. Depends what they charge I suppose.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

50 mins from Passage apparently and 35 minutes from Ballyduff apparently, as opposed to 20 mins and 1 hour if it was in Walsh Park. So I think it's fair enough to be honest.

If you took the whole round trip journey into account Ballyduff gain ½ an hour whereas the other way round would see Passage have a 1hour and 20mins shorter journey the other way which is nearly 3 times as long as the extra journey Ballyduff Upper have this time.

60 mins from Passage to Dungarvan. Seriously, home and away arrangment or toss the coin. Otherwise someone will always get the dirty end of the stick. Interesting that Ring and Roanmore is on in Kill in light of this discussion.

Actually talking about the hurling, I personally think Passage will come through this. I wonder how far they can go in the competition this year? I haven't had an opportunity to see them play yet.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

Well I made three points, and you've picked out one to go on more about.

I've already made my opinions clear, as have others. In the absence of a suitable venue in the middle of the county, the teams should toss a coin for Walsh Park or Fraher Field, as opposed to Fraher Field being the default option on every occasion, or at the very least put a home and away agreement in place between the clubs.

That's all I've to say on it.

Its just this one has kept cropping over over the past few days and its staring to irk me so had to have my say on it..

You say there is no suitable venue in 'the middle of the county' but for a lot of clubs in the far west Dungarvan is pretty much middle of the county

hardybuck

robopaddy wrote: »

Its just this one has kept cropping over over the past few days and its staring to irk me so had to have my say on it..

You say there is no suitable venue in 'the middle of the county' but for a lot of clubs in the far west Dungarvan is pretty much middle of the county

Look, it's been discussed a fair bit now alright, and people are probably sick of it.

Ballyduff is 15 mins longer to Walsh Park than Passage is to Dungarvan. Simple as that. I don't think it would be unreasonable to develop a home and away arrangement for those clubs, which in fairness are both in extreme ends of the county. That's the fairest arrangement I can think of, rather than expecting one club to always face a longer journey.

I again highlight that Ring and Roanmore are playing each other in Kill, which is interesting in this debate, as I wouldn't have considered that to be a senior championship venue.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

Look, it's been discussed a fair bit now alright, and people are probably sick of it.

Ballyduff is 15 mins longer to Walsh Park than Passage is to Dungarvan. Simple as that. I don't think it would be unreasonable to develop a home and away arrangement for those clubs, which in fairness are both in extreme ends of the county. That's the fairest arrangement I can think of, rather than expecting one club to always face a longer journey.

I again highlight that Ring and Roanmore are playing each other in Kill, which is interesting in this debate, as I wouldn't have considered that to be a senior championship venue.

A 'home venue' to Ballyduff in that case would be Lismore or Cappoquin. Dungarvan is 25 or so miles from Ballyduff.

Ring and Roanmore is a different scenario for starters Ring is only a few miles out of Dungarvan so Kill is fair and neutral and secondly Kill wouldnt really be well-equipped to deal with a big crowd. The relegation play-off's generally dont attract much spectators.

Deise_2012

Really hope Cormac Curran gets a starting place next sunday, at the moment the only strategy we have from the puck out is to hit DJ Foran, the galway manager has surely copped onto that at this stage, Curran was very unlucky to be dropped for the munster final as he was away on holidays a week before the game. His aerial ability is what we need as the galway half back line like to push forward any chance they get. Kevin Daly won't be allowed receive any short puck outs from Gavin Power either so I hope Gavins puckouts can improve from the last day! Other than that I wish the boys best of luck next sunday, one of the best teams we've had in ages and I can name at least 9 players who I see can see making the senior panel in the next couple of year so the future is bright regardless of sunday! Hope Stephen Bennett pays for my few beers sunday after backing him 1st goalscorer too ha :P

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

Actually talking about the hurling, I personally think Passage will come through this. I wonder how far they can go in the competition this year? I haven't had an opportunity to see them play yet.

Saw Passage v Ballygunner, and they were very poor.

Admittedly they had nothing to play for but I just can't really understand how they've been doing as well as they have. They have a few good players, but Mark Wyse got absolutely burnt by Brian O'Sullivan while he was on the field. It was only when he pulled up that Wyse came more into the game, that and them dropping a player back as sweeper.

Killian Fitzgerald is good but outside of him they didn't seem to have much up front. The minor, Sean Hogan, took his goal well but don't remember him being too dangerous. Maybe it was a bad game to judge them on and Eoin Kelly did go off with an injury at half time but still I don't seem them going any further than a semi.

Think they should beat Ballyduff, as Ballyduff are without Molumphy. But wouldn't be shocked by a defeat.

Mr Tibbs

Best of luck to the Minor Team in the All-Ireland this Sunday. I hope they can buck the trend its rare a team comes from nowhere and wins. Galway are favorites and will feel like its one in the bag for them so I hope they will give it their all and hopefully we will be celebrating an historic win Sunday evening. Its brilliant they have got this far after the way the Munster Final went on them, it would have been easy to fold but this bunch are make of tough stuff.

robopaddy

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

Best of luck to the Minor Team in the All-Ireland this Sunday. I hope they can buck the trend its rare a team comes from nowhere and wins. Galway are favorites and will feel like its one in the bag for them so I hope they will give it their all and hopefully we will be celebrating an historic win Sunday evening. Its brilliant they have got this far after the way the Munster Final went on them, it would have been easy to fold but this bunch are make of tough stuff.

Wouldnt say this team has completely come from nowhere to be fair a few of these players have been catching the eye since as far back as u14 and a lot of them have had huge success with their colleges, the foundations were always there for a good team.

There is no doubt these lads are capable of toppling Galway I think individually we are as good if not better than them but the big thing is getting a huge performance out of this Waterford team for 60 minutes. The only game weve really managed to do that was against Clare in the Munster Championship every other game has been a bit of a rollercoaster ride.

I think there is a massive performance waiting to come out of this team and hopefully Sunday is the day it happens. If this team clicks we can be devastating and no team could live with us but if we start panicking and doing daft things like against Kilkenny and Limerick we could end up beating ourselves. This is where management needs to come in and help keep the lads focused and disciplined.

I know there will be nerves but I just hope they go out and enjoy it and play like they can do because it will take a serious team to beat them if they do.

hardybuck

The concern for Waterford will be that Galway beat Limerick after playing only their real first game. They'll improve after that, and are extremely experienced on the sideline. I reckon Galway will be favourites going in.

Waterford played in fits and starts against Kilkenny, and look to be a bit of an inconsistent side. Even within games, they can turn it on for bursts where they are unplayable, and then allow teams back into it.

Galway had an excellent half back line, and sticky backs in general, if I remember correctly. Waterford's tactics against KK baffled me. Playing short puck outs to the full back line, who then tried to clear long ball under pressure made no sense to me at all. The half forward line had only one ball winner - DJ Foran, who had to try and win messy ball.

Partly as a result of the above, KK had the Waterford full forward line on lockdown for much of the game. I would say Waterford's tactics on the day played into KK's hands, and Galway will definitely have picked up upon this. This will be a big test of Power to see what he's capable of tactically.

Any update down there on tickets? Has supply matched demand in any shape or form? I'm still hoping to get my hands on one or two, but will be around Dublin over the weekend.

premierstone

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

Best of luck to the Minor Team in the All-Ireland this Sunday. I hope they can buck the trend its rare a team comes from nowhere and wins. Galway are favorites and will feel like its one in the bag for them so I hope they will give it their all and hopefully we will be celebrating an historic win Sunday evening. Its brilliant they have got this far after the way the Munster Final went on them, it would have been easy to fold but this bunch are make of tough stuff.

I don't know about that, they were beaten by Tipp, were 9 odd points behind Cork, beaten by Limerick and did their best to let a completley inferior Kilkenny team beat them.

There is no questioning their talent as individual hurlers, they have match winners all over the field, but there has to be question marks over their team play, mental fortitude and more than anything the management, to me the management haven't a clue what they are at.

hardybuck

premierstone wrote: »

I don't know about that, they were beaten by Tipp, were 9 odd points behind Cork, beaten by Limerick and did their best to let a completley inferior Kilkenny team beat them.

There is no questioning their talent as individual hurlers, they have match winners all over the field, but there has to be question marks over their team play, mental fortitude and more than anything the management, to me the management haven't a clue what they are at.

I'd agree with pretty much all of above.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

I don't know about that, they were beaten by Tipp, were 9 odd points behind Cork, beaten by Limerick and did their best to let a completley inferior Kilkenny team beat them.

There is no questioning their talent as individual hurlers, they have match winners all over the field, but there has to be question marks over their team play, mental fortitude and more than anything the management, to me the management haven't a clue what they are at.

Would coming from 10 points or whatever down against Cork not be the exact definition of mental fortitude, especially given Waterford teams don't win down there and there was so much pressure on them?

I agree there are issues, probably game managment has been a big one. But I wouldn't go along with any suggestions they are not tough, they have been winning at colleges level too and they managed to but the disappointment of the Munster Final saga behind them pretty quickly.

Not sure how good or bad that Kilkenny team is either. Laois gave Galway one hell of a game, where Kilkenny bet them pretty easily twice. The form lines are hard to read at Minor level.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

Would coming from 10 points or whatever down against Cork not be the exact definition of mental fortitude, especially given Waterford teams don't win down there and there was so much pressure on them?

I agree there are issues, probably game managment has been a big one. But I wouldn't go along with any suggestions they are not tough, they have been winning at colleges level too and they managed to but the disappointment of the Munster Final saga behind them pretty quickly.

Not sure how good or bad that Kilkenny team is either. Laois gave Galway one hell of a game, where Kilkenny bet them pretty easily twice. The form lines are hard to read at Minor level.

In the Cork game they came back brilliantly, in the Limerick game they threw it away. Hence my description of inconsistent, which I think is the best description of them.

It's definitely been a poor year in Leinster. There was no hype in KK about their minor team at all. Laois were beaten by 9 points in the Galway game, which was Galways first outing of the season. Both Leinster teams lost their first games outside of the province.

I'm not trying to take the gloss off this minor team, they've reached a final which is exceptional by our standards, and may go on to win it. However, I don't think they've received any really unfair criticism here so far.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

In the Cork game they came back brilliantly, in the Limerick game they threw it away. Hence my description of inconsistent, which I think is the best description of them.

It's definitely been a poor year in Leinster. There was no hype in KK about their minor team at all. Laois were beaten by 9 points in the Galway game, which was Galways first outing of the season. Both Leinster teams lost their first games outside of the province.

I'm not trying to take the gloss off this minor team, they've reached a final which is exceptional by our standards, and may go on to win it. However, I don't think they've received any really unfair criticism here so far.

The scoreline in the Laois Galway game does not tell the full story, Laois may well have gone on to win the game but for being denied a legitimate goal, and then Galway got a sucker punch with a goal of their own. Fair enough, it was Galway's first game but I think saying they both lost their first outing outside of Leinster is a bit simplistic, says nothing about the quality of either team.

I wouldn't in a million years use the Kilkenny game as a blot on the copy book for this Waterford team. We have a horrible record in semi finals, we had lost a Munster final, I think there's signs of mental toughness there too. And while we made some stupid fould in defense, Hourigan was an absolute disaster as he was 4 days previously and not sure how the free count was so much in favour of Kilkenny to be honest. We also had to play a part of the game 14 v 15, again takes a bit of character to deal with that.

I do agree we're inconsistent, but I guess minors are that by their very nature. Personally, I think they are going to rise to the occasion but we'll have to wait and see.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

The scoreline in the Laois Galway game does not tell the full story, Laois may well have gone on to win the game but for being denied a legitimate goal, and then Galway got a sucker punch with a goal of their own. Fair enough, it was Galway's first game but I think saying they both lost their first outing outside of Leinster is a bit simplistic, says nothing about the quality of either team.

I wouldn't in a million years use the Kilkenny game as a blot on the copy book for this Waterford team. We have a horrible record in semi finals, we had lost a Munster final, I think there's signs of mental toughness there too. And while we made some stupid fould in defense, Hourigan was an absolute disaster as he was 4 days previously and not sure how the free count was so much in favour of Kilkenny to be honest. We also had to play a part of the game 14 v 15, again takes a bit of character to deal with that.

I do agree we're inconsistent, but I guess minors are that by their very nature. Personally, I think they are going to rise to the occasion but we'll have to wait and see.

Would you agree that our tactics were very poor on the day? That, and some of the decision making of the lads frustrated me hugely at times. They are kids at the end of the day, but still...

Agree the ref was a joke, but Waterford definitely played into his hands with some sloppy challenges. It was another thing the players and management should have spotted quickly and adjusted for, but yet Waterford continued to foul again and again.

I'm probably being quite critical on the face of it, but we're talking about an All Ireland which is at stake here. They don't get handed out too easily.

deiseach

I find it strange to use the fact that the Minors were nine points down against Cork as a stick with which to beat them. This was the first Waterford Minor team to ever to beat Cork in Cork, remember? If someone were to suggest that Limerick's loss to Galway could be explained in the context of being eight points down to Waterford at one stage, you'd wonder what they were about.

hardybuck

deiseach wrote: »

I find it strange to use the fact that the Minors were nine points down against Cork as a stick with which to beat them. This was the first Waterford Minor team to ever to beat Cork in Cork, remember? If someone were to suggest that Limerick's loss to Galway could be explained in the context of being eight points down to Waterford at one stage, you'd wonder what they were about.

It isn't. People are using it as an example of how they showed resolve, and came back from the jaws of defeat?

deiseach

hardybuck wrote: »

It isn't. People are using it as an example of how they showed resolve, and came back from the jaws of defeat?

Far from it, check the original post. Having been described as being made of 'tough stuff', premierstone uses the nine point deficit against Cork as evidence that they are not.

hardybuck

deiseach wrote: »

Far from it, check the original post. Having been described as being made of 'tough stuff', premierstone uses the nine point deficit against Cork as evidence that they are not.

Fair enough, not by me anyway. Just the aul inconsistency at my end!

deiseach

hardybuck wrote: »

Fair enough, not by me anyway. Just the aul inconsistency at my end!

I think we can all agree on that, they've been up and down like a whor . . . yo-yo. I worry that Galway have a metronomic quality to their underage teams that will see them past us. But maybe we'll catch them while we're on the up? Fingers crossed.

robopaddy

Been thinking about Premierstones comments about not being mentally strong enough and think it is grossly unfair...

The defeat to Tipperary in Munster we got off a bad start and did not recover from it. We did not know what our best team was at the time and our full back Sam O'Neill got a bit of a runaround off their full forward Josh Keane and his scores ultimately proved to be the difference. He has since been dropped and Kevin Daly has gone in full back since and really steadied the ship. Not forgetting Stephen Bennett was injured that day aswell and he is unquestionably our best forward.
We hammered Clare in the qualifiers, and although a very bad start again against Cork came back from 9 points down to win it, surely more of a sign of mental toughness than mental weakness. The Munster final against Limerick we were cruising until obviously not closing out the win and allowing Limerick back in. The big crowd had started to come in for the senior game and got behind them and definetly had an adverse effect on our lads. But in the replay the momentum was with Limerick and I think it showed that we were realistically never 8 points better than them in the first place. The Antrim game was a bit of a non-entity. Kilkenny yes we were inconsistent but at the same time were able to close out the game when we needed to and signs were there that the lessons from the Gaelic Grounds had been learned.

Unfortunately I have to agree about what has been said here about the management I really think they are out of their depth. If you could look at inconsistency and ill-discipline we are talking about minors at the end of the day and the buck has to stop with management there. Hardybuck hit the nail on the head there about how we consistently gave away needless frees against Kilkenny against a ref that was obviously very fussy. This should have been nipped in the bud on the sideline from an early stage. KK were far more disciplined and organised than us and I expect Galway to be the exact same. Mattie Murphy & Co have had this grade narrowed down to a fine art with 10 years and will have far more experience on the sideline than our hapless lot

seananigans

FFS we haven't had the final eyet and lads are saying there's always next year, bollocks to that

on a side note, theres a write up on the lads here

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/deises-young-guns-learn-a-lesson-from-cronin-242067.html

PTH2009

I just hope it's not going to be like our Senoir final appearance in 08 and we get hammered. We need too hit the ground running from throw in, play for the full 60+ mins. Our back room team need to be on form because Galway Hve avstrong and experienced management team and will knw this level dwn to a tee and probly Hve watched many tapes of Waterford playing.

Heading up myself so please god I pick up a ticket at the big tree pub or around Croke Park on Sunday.

Will there be a homecoming Monday night if we win. Surly the lads would not be allowed drink on Sunday night because of the law, I hear there is a banquet thing on Sunday night for the Waterford team

What are the odds on a draw

STIG83

PTH2009 wrote: »

I just hope it's not going to be like our Senoir final appearance in 08 and we get hammered. We need too hit the ground running from throw in, play for the full 60+ mins. Our back room team need to be on form because Galway Hve avstrong and experienced management team and will knw this level dwn to a tee and probly Hve watched many tapes of Waterford playing.

Heading up myself so please god I pick up a ticket at the big tree pub or around Croke Park on Sunday.

Will there be a homecoming Monday night if we win. Surly the lads would not be allowed drink on Sunday night because of the law, I hear there is a banquet thing on Sunday night for the Waterford team

What are the odds on a draw

Sorry I have to comment. You keep spelling SENIOR wrong. It's not senoir!!

Darkest Horse

STIG83 wrote: »

Sorry I have to comment. You keep spelling SENIOR wrong. It's not senoir!!

On that note I have to get in here too as I've been bottling this up for weeks! I like Premierstone, I think he has some good posts but for the love of God, please stop using 'he's' as a replacement for the pronoun 'his'.

For example: 'He plays for he's club' (incorrect). 'He plays for his club' (correct).

I know it might sound like that phonetically, but not in writing!

I'm also watching you Mountainlad and Thinkstoomuch, you are both guilty of this error!!

premierstone

Mountainlad wrote: »

Would coming from 10 points or whatever down against Cork not be the exact definition of mental fortitude, especially given Waterford teams don't win down there and there was so much pressure on them?

I agree there are issues, probably game managment has been a big one. But I wouldn't go along with any suggestions they are not tough, they have been winning at colleges level too and they managed to but the disappointment of the Munster Final saga behind them pretty quickly.

Not sure how good or bad that Kilkenny team is either. Laois gave Galway one hell of a game, where Kilkenny bet them pretty easily twice. The form lines are hard to read at Minor level.

It would indeed show mental fortitude, I was referring to that game as a flaw that is in this Waterford team tbh, when a team gets a run on them they really really struggle, it has happened on 4 ocasions now.

Was reliably told by numerous Kilkenny folk all year it was the weakest minor team that they have had in many a year, and I seen them in two challenge games against Tipp myself and they were very ordinary tbh.

Fully agree re form lines at minor level and they are by their very nature an icredibly unreliable grade.

comeraghs

from Waterfordgaa.com

Waterford Minor Hurling Panel v Galway - ALL IRELAND FINAL.
1. Gavin Power Dungarvan
2. William Hahessey Clonea 3. Kevin Daly Dungarvan CAPTAIN 4. Cian Leamy Ballyduff Upper 5. Michéal Harney Bonmahon 6. Austin Gleeson Mount Sion 7. Shane Bennett Ballysaggart 8. Mark O'Brien Ferrybank 9. Tom Devine Modeligo 10. Stephen Bennett Ballysaggart 11. DJ Foran Portlaw 12. Michael Kearney Ballyduff Upper 13. Adam Farrell De La Salle 14. Patrick Curran Dungarvan 15. Colm Roche Shamrocks