Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

robopaddy

Cake Man wrote: »

Would it be worth putting Shane Bennett on that Shanagher lad or would that be a waste? Who would be our best man marker?
Seems if we could stop his threat we'd be in with a good shout.
I read elsewhere that Clare are meant to have one of their best players back that missed the first game due to a burst appendix, think his name is Ben O' Gorman so that'll be a boost for them.
It'll be tight I'd say but confident we can do the job again.

Yea but Roche and sutton are due back for us too. Both definate starters. And when curran lined out against clare it was effectively his first full game since october.

With regard to the full back I beleive jack mccarthy from dls was the first choice full back with this team pretty much all the way up from tony forristal but got injured towards the end of last year and missed the cut for the panel as a result. Dont know if hes been called in sonce as hes back playing with the club now.
Definetly not bennett to mark him but roche can play there alright

Deise Doodler

sid wallace wrote: »

Great post. We are the All Ireland champions and weare playing at home against a team we beat in Ennis two weeks ago. Why shouldn't we be favourites?

New year , different team, and didn't say we shouldn't be favourites, just aware of the challenge we face

Deise Doodler

robopaddy wrote: »

Yea but Roche and sutton are due back for us too. Both definate starters. And when curran lined out against clare it was effectively his first full game since october.

With regard to the full back I beleive jack mccarthy from dls was the first choice full back with this team pretty much all the way up from tony forristal but got injured towards the end of last year and missed the cut for the panel as a result. Dont know if hes been called in sonce as hes back playing with the club now.
Definetly not bennett to mark him but roche can play there alright

Think you might see Roche centre back with Bennet moving to the wing, hope McCarthy will be back but as much of a hand full Shanager proved our back line didn't concede a goal, and I don't keeper having to make any blinding saves

999/112

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/davy-fitzgerald-clare-waterford-1405288-May2014/

Davy on Derek!

38gitS

Cake Man wrote: »

Would it be worth putting Shane Bennett on that Shanagher lad or would that be a waste? Who would be our best man marker?
Seems if we could stop his threat we'd be in with a good shout.
I read elsewhere that Clare are meant to have one of their best players back that missed the first game due to a burst appendix, think his name is Ben O' Gorman so that'll be a boost for them.
It'll be tight I'd say but confident we can do the job again.

Firstly, I think the lads will come on a little from their first outing. CShip games can't be replicated with practice matches. From what I saw, the serious issue against Clare was in MF. The pair (O'Halloran and Gleeson) were simply outworked by theor opponents and the no.13 in particular was the problem. Shanagher benefitted from the amount of posession Clare had between the 65's. In the second half, management moved Lyons out and suddenly Waterford were more in the game and won as a consequence of taking their chances. Wouldnt be overly concerned with the FF but I agree that McCarthy would certainly match him physically. Whatever you say about it, any team that goes to Ennis and comes away with a win while playing well within themselves, must be noted.

robopaddy

38gitS wrote: »

Firstly, I think the lads will come on a little from their first outing. CShip games can't be replicated with practice matches. From what I saw, the serious issue against Clare was in MF. The pair (O'Halloran and Gleeson) were simply outworked by theor opponents and the no.13 in particular was the problem. Shanagher benefitted from the amount of posession Clare had between the 65's. In the second half, management moved Lyons out and suddenly Waterford were more in the game and won as a consequence of taking their chances. Wouldnt be overly concerned with the FF but I agree that McCarthy would certainly match him physically. Whatever you say about it, any team that goes to Ennis and comes away with a win while playing well within themselves, must be noted.

Agree with that but I dont think anyone is questioning the ability of this minor team I beleive we are as good as whats out there again this year. Limerick are going to be favourites cork are strong too and dublin in leinster but this group has been v successful up along from tony forrestal. The issue is getting it right on the day getting the right balance on the field and getting the lads heads right aswell. Clare are going to be a well drilled outfit and while may have the advantage of extra games youd hope it has given our management more time to have a look at them aswell and suss out the best way to approach them.

Twiceasnice97

the clare team has a new corner back who was injured, wing forward and corner forward since the waterford game plus the most talented hurler in the county at that age will probably start the next day. there is also the possibility that the three or four lads who chose to play football might be called up for the hurlers

Cake Man

robopaddy wrote: »

Agree with that but I dont think anyone is questioning the ability of this minor team I beleive we are as good as whats out there again this year. Limerick are going to be favourites cork are strong too and dublin in leinster but this group has been v successful up along from tony forrestal. The issue is getting it right on the day getting the right balance on the field and getting the lads heads right aswell. Clare are going to be a well drilled outfit and while may have the advantage of extra games youd hope it has given our management more time to have a look at them aswell and suss out the best way to approach them.

Definately, and one of Cork and Limerick will be gone after the semis so it narrows the field. I don't really think the extra games for Clare will mean much, one of them was against Kerry which they battered them so they wouldn't have learned anything from that. The other against Tipp was undoubtably a good win for them but as was discussed here the last few days, it's hard to read into it when Tipp had three sent off (and were awful by all accounts) and Clare got the bulk of their scores when they had the numerical advantage.

Also, it'll be another nearly two months before that match is played so any momentum they've built up will be gone by then. If it was played next week then that would count for something.

Horseboxhead

Big Difference i feel, between this years minor panel and last, is Maturity, you could see from last year from no 1 to no 15 and even 26 last year you had men instead of boys alot of Leaders, from daly to even leamy from Ballyduff to gleeson to devine to roche to bennett to kearney all of them were used to big games played at the higest grade within their clubs were big names, and fed on it, big difference this year is i don't see that.
You relying on lads who were on it last year to drag them forward and maybe i'm wrong but i don't see it, i think that the majority of last year panel who arem still there are very talanted hurlers but when you are in a munster final or a game is getting away from you like cork last year, or Munster minor replay this current group don't seem to have that.
In fact whilst i think we probably have better hurlers in more positions this year, i think this campaign will not be as fruitfull, i actually think that the big problem for years in waterford underage was not producing hurlers we have done that by the bucketload, we very rarely have minors who are mentally as mature as other counties, up to last years team, which was very special, i would think that the avarage waterford hurler whilst blessed with ability dis not mature and get that belief in winning things untill about 20-23, you will have special cases ken, tony ect, but the majority not untill they have been on the senior panel a couple of years.
Take cork minors for example, nearly beat us last year and did not have a super side, whilst we did, and look at our history underage both minor and u 21 against them, no matter how bad they are we always struggle, its a maturity thing, in cork they would pass it as tradition, so my point being unless i see o halloran from Clashmore or curran from dungarvan or bennett from Ballysaggert doing more than being beautiful hurlers i think this years minors will not achieve all that is expected of them.

Brad1234

Complacency is the only way i can see waterford being bet in the semi final after seeing the first game... Clare threw the kitchen sink at us and to be honest they're always a confident bunch and still didn't beat us.. They can say they are missing 18 lads but they will have no one of the quality of a fully fit Patrick Curran, Colm Roche in their side. With two guns like that in your forward line it usually gets you over the line at minor once they have worker bees around them.

All our top guys have experience of playing in big games at minor level with quiet of number of squad getting experience watching on last season so id expect a lot more from this group the next day.. I really didnt think they hurled at all..

You'll always get confidence from a Clare group but it wouldnt bother me a whole pile.. If they manage to keep curran and roche quiet id be amazed but there confidence will be warranted if it works out that way.

Hopefully these top footballers are defenders so will have plenty of goals.

hardybuck

Limerick have announced a 2 week break in their preparations for the Munster SHC in order to give their clubs a chance to get a couple of rounds of games in.

http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=215380

Slobbery

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

the clare team has a new corner back who was injured, wing forward and corner forward since the waterford game plus the most talented hurler in the county at that age will probably start the next day. there is also the possibility that the three or four lads who chose to play football might be called up for the hurlers

its impossoble to judge really, we may not have been full strength the last day but as you say either where Clare, It think it will be a very tight game, Clare will be bouyed with the Tipp result as well as the high in their county from the senior team.

The Munster Minor championship has been ridiculously close these last few years, throwing up some unreal games that went to extra time and replays, they prepare so well now, everyone has their house in order and it really is on the day.

38gitS

Horseboxhead wrote: »

Big Difference i feel, between this years minor panel and last, is Maturity, you could see from last year from no 1 to no 15 and even 26 last year you had men instead of boys alot of Leaders, from daly to even leamy from Ballyduff to gleeson to devine to roche to bennett to kearney all of them were used to big games played at the higest grade within their clubs were big names, and fed on it, big difference this year is i don't see that.
You relying on lads who were on it last year to drag them forward and maybe i'm wrong but i don't see it, i think that the majority of last year panel who arem still there are very talanted hurlers but when you are in a munster final or a game is getting away from you like cork last year, or Munster minor replay this current group don't seem to have that.

In fact whilst i think we probably have better hurlers in more positions this year, i think this campaign will not be as fruitfull, i actually think that the big problem for years in waterford underage was not producing hurlers we have done that by the bucketload, we very rarely have minors who are mentally as mature as other counties, up to last years team, which was very special, i would think that the avarage waterford hurler whilst blessed with ability dis not mature and get that belief in winning things untill about 20-23, you will have special cases ken, tony ect, but the majority not untill they have been on the senior panel a couple of years.
Take cork minors for example, nearly beat us last year and did not have a super side, whilst we did, and look at our history underage both minor and u 21 against them, no matter how bad they are we always struggle, its a maturity thing, in cork they would pass it as tradition, so my point being unless i see o halloran from Clashmore or curran from dungarvan or bennett from Ballysaggert doing more than being beautiful hurlers i think this years minors will not achieve all that is expected of them.

The question I have here is when youre gauging the group's maturity. I think that there was a stark difference between the team that played Cork or Limerick the first day and the team that beat KK, in terms of maturity. Is this simply a case of experience expanding the confidence and drive of the group? Im fairly sure that if this group gets the breaks, they'll grow as well.

hurler on de ditch

Horseboxhead wrote: »

Big Difference i feel, between this years minor panel and last, is Maturity, you could see from last year from no 1 to no 15 and even 26 last year you had men instead of boys alot of Leaders, from daly to even leamy from Ballyduff to gleeson to devine to roche to bennett to kearney all of them were used to big games played at the higest grade within their clubs were big names, and fed on it, big difference this year is i don't see that.
You relying on lads who were on it last year to drag them forward and maybe i'm wrong but i don't see it, i think that the majority of last year panel who arem still there are very talanted hurlers but when you are in a munster final or a game is getting away from you like cork last year, or Munster minor replay this current group don't seem to have that.
In fact whilst i think we probably have better hurlers in more positions this year, i think this campaign will not be as fruitfull, i actually think that the big problem for years in waterford underage was not producing hurlers we have done that by the bucketload, we very rarely have minors who are mentally as mature as other counties, up to last years team, which was very special, i would think that the avarage waterford hurler whilst blessed with ability dis not mature and get that belief in winning things untill about 20-23, you will have special cases ken, tony ect, but the majority not untill they have been on the senior panel a couple of years.
Take cork minors for example, nearly beat us last year and did not have a super side, whilst we did, and look at our history underage both minor and u 21 against them, no matter how bad they are we always struggle, its a maturity thing, in cork they would pass it as tradition, so my point being unless i see o halloran from Clashmore or curran from dungarvan or bennett from Ballysaggert doing more than being beautiful hurlers i think this years minors will not achieve all that is expected of them.

bull****

Deise Doodler

Brad1234 wrote: »

Complacency is the only way i can see waterford being bet in the semi final after seeing the first game... Clare threw the kitchen sink at us and to be honest they're always a confident bunch and still didn't beat us.. They can say they are missing 18 lads but they will have no one of the quality of a fully fit Patrick Curran, Colm Roche in their side. With two guns like that in your forward line it usually gets you over the line at minor once they have worker bees around them.

All our top guys have experience of playing in big games at minor level with quiet of number of squad getting experience watching on last season so id expect a lot more from this group the next day.. I really didnt think they hurled at all..

You'll always get confidence from a Clare group but it wouldnt bother me a whole pile.. If they manage to keep curran and roche quiet id be amazed but there confidence will be warranted if it works out that way.

Hopefully these top footballers are defenders so will have plenty of goals.

That's exactly the type of talk that leads to complacency

sid wallace

Cnoc Sion 4-18. Ballyduff 0-14. 3 goals for Richie Roche.

thegambler2

I've been told the minor hurlers are training monday and a challenge game thursday, Im not sure if the footballers are expected to train on monday, but Ive been told they have to play thursday, surely at this stage 2 games in 2 days is wrong? Now they probably wont play a full game, but i think they deserve a break after what'll be and very tough game wednesday! It helps though having Darragh Lyons playing the football, Derek might go easy!:P

On a side note, this year I think all the dual minors are actually more natural footballers, which is interesting bar Cormac Curran! (eg Gleeson, Allen, Prunty, O'Halloran, Cronin, Mullaney,)

38gitS

thegambler2 wrote: »

I've been told the minor hurlers are training monday and a challenge game thursday, Im not sure if the footballers are expected to train on monday, but Ive been told they have to play thursday, surely at this stage 2 games in 2 days is wrong? Now they probably wont play a full game, but i think they deserve a break after what'll be and very tough game wednesday! It helps though having Darragh Lyons playing the football, Derek might go easy!:P

On a side note, this year I think all the dual minors are actually more natural footballers, which is interesting bar Cormac Curran! (eg Gleeson, Allen, Prunty, O'Halloran, Cronin, Mullaney,)

Crazy stuff altogether and what about the leaving cert lads?

We always hear about the exceptions eg Tom Devine, AI school and county medals, medicine in UCC? etc but I wonder how many of these lads studies are suffering because of their commitment to sport. Tough on parents as well , just looking for the best for their kids.

Is it time to perhaps look at an U-17 competition instead. The lads involved most likely be 5th years (within the next 10 years they will all be with new recent rules re age of kids starting school) so no leaving cert concerns. 17 year olds less likely to be involved at club senior/adult level so less club v county issues and overall less load.

Still not an ideal scenario but better imo.

Deise Doodler

38gitS wrote: »

Crazy stuff altogether and what about the leaving cert lads?

We always hear about the exceptions eg Tom Devine, AI school and county medals, medicine in UCC? etc but I wonder how many of these lads studies are suffering because of their commitment to sport. Tough on parents as well , just looking for the best for their kids.

Is it time to perhaps look at an U-17 competition instead. The lads involved most likely be 5th years (within the next 10 years they will all be with new recent rules re age of kids starting school) so no leaving cert concerns. 17 year olds less likely to be involved at club senior/adult level so less club v county issues and overall less load.

Still not an ideal scenario but better imo.

Didn't they try to get that passed at congress this year, but was voted down, think its a good idea though, would certainly help in the area of burn out

robopaddy

38gitS wrote: »

Crazy stuff altogether and what about the leaving cert lads?

We always hear about the exceptions eg Tom Devine, AI school and county medals, medicine in UCC? etc but I wonder how many of these lads studies are suffering because of their commitment to sport. Tough on parents as well , just looking for the best for their kids.

Is it time to perhaps look at an U-17 competition instead. The lads involved most likely be 5th years (within the next 10 years they will all be with new recent rules re age of kids starting school) so no leaving cert concerns. 17 year olds less likely to be involved at club senior/adult level so less club v county issues and overall less load.

Still not an ideal scenario but better imo.

There should be no need to change the rules just because common sense is absent.

The lads involved in the football should not be playing anything withe hurlers this week simple as. The hurlers dont have a game for almost 2 months. One competitive game of football is enough training for them for one week not like theyre going to fall behind missing out one week with a panel that has been together for 6 months anyway.

Plus give the football panel the chance it deserves

3ships

Full Time
Roanmore 1-9 FMW 0-10
Ardmore 1-9 Ballygunner 4-24

Deisegodeo

Ballygunner hammered Ardmore in a very one sided game.

Philip Mahony taken to hospital with what looked like a broken ankle. Another big loss for the Cork game in a few weeks

Mountainlad

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Ballygunner hammered Ardmore in a very one sided game.

Philip Mahony taken to hospital with what looked like a broken ankle. Another big loss for the Cork game in a few weeks

There'll be a draw on the day I'd say to see which three fans will make up the extra numbers on the bench, incredible amount of injuries!

3ships

Mountainlad wrote: »

There'll be a draw on the day I'd say to see which three fans will make up the extra numbers on the bench, incredible amount of injuries!

One more year Tony!!!
I have counted 12 injury/fitness worries for Cork game. Think there is a Challenge v Offaly next Sunday in Carrickbeg will be interesting to see who lines out. A lot of U-21 lads I'd say.

Deisegodeo

Some win for Roanmore over Fourmilewater, thats 3 points from 4 for them. Not may people would have predicted that considering they had Passage and FMW in their opening 3 games.

Elsewhere, DLS beat Abbeyside by 2 points, 2-11 to 1-12, Shane Ryan getting the 2 DLS goals.

Passage and Lismore drew, 0-18 to 2-12. WLR said Lismore missed a heap of chances, somethings never change i suppose.

PTH2009

if we play like we did in the league against Cork it will be all over very quickly

Hopefully the management team have a plan or 2 in store for Cork but its hard to see us get something out of the game with all the injurys

If were beaten by Cork we will then play in a quilfer on 28th June against a losing Leinster team

Mountainlad

3ships wrote: »

One more year Tony!!!
I have counted 12 injury/fitness worries for Cork game. Think there is a Challenge v Offaly next Sunday in Carrickbeg will be interesting to see who lines out. A lot of U-21 lads I'd say.

Darragh Fives, Molumphy, O Halloran, Philip Mahony, Jake Dillon, Daniels, Shane Sully seem definetly out. Then Maurice came on 2nd half today, Liam lawlor got through another game and played well but probably not 100%. Anyone else?

Deise_2012

Mountainlad wrote: »

Darragh Fives, Molumphy, O Halloran, Philip Mahony, Jake Dillon, Daniels, Shane Sully seem definetly out. Then Maurice came on 2nd half today, Liam lawlor got through another game and played well but probably not 100%. Anyone else?

O' Halloran and Darragh Fives are both playing for their clubs

tomwaterford

3ships wrote: »

One more year Tony!!!
I have counted 12 injury/fitness worries for Cork game. Think there is a Challenge v Offaly next Sunday in Carrickbeg will be interesting to see who lines out. A lot of U-21 lads I'd say.

what time is that at??

3ships

Mountainlad wrote: »

Darragh Fives, Molumphy, O Halloran, Philip Mahony, Jake Dillon, Daniels, Shane Sully seem definetly out. Then Maurice came on 2nd half today, Liam lawlor got through another game and played well but probably not 100%. Anyone else?

Ye, None of those mentioned are 100%. I understand a few players are making appearances with their clubs but far from championship pace i'd say. Ritchie Foley and Martin O Neill would be another 2 and I also include as part of the panel Stephen Bennett and Donie Breathnach tho I know they will be more prospects for the U-21 team. All in all a lot to deal with with Cork in three weeks.