Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

glick6

hardybuck wrote: »

Give it up. Every side in the league played four games in four weekends during the league. Currently in the Leinster Championship Preliminary Rounds, teams are playing 4 games in 28 days, before playing in the Championship proper!

What is the county board's involvement in injury prevention here? Maurice Shanahan for example, seems to have togged out twice for his club while unfit. As a result, he's going to be out injured for a longer period, and unavailable for selection.

Given the money that has been invested in him during the preparations so far this year, and given the money that will now be invested in his recovery, should there be a closer role for the county team physio's in at least advising to the clubs?

Club teams do not pay heed to "advice" from county setup when it comes to one of their top players regarding rest etc. They want their best players playing, simple as. The players themselves want to play the club games anyway and in most cases will do so even if carrying a knock.

Brad1234

Bar Philip Mahony who is definitely ruled out id be surprised if the majority of the others didnt tog out come the cork game.. We have this every year and Cork will have about 68 injuries leading up to the game also but then a miracle occurs and they're all out on the pitch.. I wont paid any heed to his until the actual day when the shadow boxing stops.

3ships

Brad1234 wrote: »

Bar Philip Mahony who is definitely ruled out id be surprised if the majority of the others didnt tog out come the cork game.. We have this every year and Cork will have about 68 injuries leading up to the game also but then a miracle occurs and they're all out on the pitch.. I wont paid any heed to his until the actual day when the shadow boxing stops.

Ye thats fair enough I think we'll be ok come the knock out championship which won't be for two months but the Cork game may be too soon for a about a half dozen starters.

Philip Mahony out for sure. SOS suspended. Jake Dillon recovery is 50/50. Molumphy (hamstring) and Maurice Shan (back) agrivated old injuries which is a concern and are very doubtful for Cork. Dara Fives, Brian O Halloran, Ritchie Foley, Martin O Neill, Liam Lawlor all lined out with clubs but have about 15 mins intercounty hurling done between them this year. Stephen Daniels at this stage, I hope to see next year as well as Stephen Bennett and Donie Breathnach.

Whether or not fellas are patched up in time for Cork is one thing but they will have hardly any preparation done. The team for Cork should be similiar to what lines out against Offaly in the challenge next Sunday, we'll see if any of the above feature. I don't have any confidence in any of them playing 70 mins Championship hurling in 3 weeks, maybe 3 or 4 will have an impact yet.

hardybuck

glick6 wrote: »

Club teams do not pay heed to "advice" from county setup when it comes to one of their top players regarding rest etc. They want their best players playing, simple as. The players themselves want to play the club games anyway and in most cases will do so even if carrying a knock.

I've had that club v county debate myself. What I'm saying here is that a fella lined out while injured. In doing so he's going to miss even more games. This isn't very good for club, county or the individual.

Slobbery

hardybuck wrote: »

I've had that club v county debate myself. What I'm saying here is that a fella lined out while injured. In doing so he's going to miss even more games. This isn't very good for club, county or the individual.

Players are constantly playing injured, hit your mid -20s playing hurling and you are never fully fit anyway, most guys would have niggles and tears and whatnot, not just muscular some lads with fractures getting pain killing injections and all sorts

hardybuck

Slobbery wrote: »

Players are constantly playing injured, hit your mid -20s playing hurling and you are never fully fit anyway, most guys would have niggles and tears and whatnot, not just muscular some lads with fractures getting pain killing injections and all sorts

Again, I know all too well. But it comes down to a discussion with player, manager and physio - what is this lad capable of? What are the risks - i.e. come back a week early and be out for 2 months etc.

Perhaps Lismore took a very blinkered view on it as they aren't likely to be out again in club championship for a month or two.

Slobbery

hardybuck wrote: »

Again, I know all too well. But it comes down to a discussion with player, manager and physio - what is this lad capable of? What are the risks - i.e. come back a week early and be out for 2 months etc.

Perhaps Lismore took a very blinkered view on it as they aren't likely to be out again in club championship for a month or two.

maybe so, but after losing the first day they are desperate for points and he is their best player, obviously they will always put themselves first.
It is a difficult position for the player as well, if he cries off injured for his club but plays for the county afterwards he can become very unpopular with his club so there is alot of that kind of pressure applied to the player.... people griping he is after getting a big head, only cares about waterford and so on.
sure Lismore took a Lismore centered view, as would any club, probably never going to change

hardybuck

Slobbery wrote: »

maybe so, but after losing the first day they are desperate for points and he is their best player, obviously they will always put themselves first.
It is a difficult position for the player as well, if he cries off injured for his club but plays for the county afterwards he can become very unpopular with his club so there is alot of that kind of pressure applied to the player.... people griping he is after getting a big head, only cares about waterford and so on.
sure Lismore took a Lismore centered view, as would any club, probably never going to change

And from purely a human element, this young guy will be spending some of the best weeks of the year for hurling sitting up on the treatment table. It's a back injury, so that's probably impacting his ability to work, and his overall quality of life.

The more I saw as I got older the more I realised is that you must protect yourself, very few people are going to do that for you.

Slobbery

hardybuck wrote: »

And from purely a human element, this young guy will be spending some of the best weeks of the year for hurling sitting up on the treatment table. It's a back injury, so that's probably impacting his ability to work, and his overall quality of life.

The more I saw as I got older the more I realised is that you must protect yourself, very few people are going to do that for you.

No-one will protect you but when you are younger you are your own worst enemy you will try and play no matter what, stupid looking back all right, real short term approach, I once had a trainer tell me when I was younger that no-one he ever played with ever pulled a hamstring so he thought I was making excuses, I suppose you play not to appear soft, so people dont think you aren't committed enough etc...
I agree with you from the point of view that there isnt as much common sense applied to dealing with injuries as there should be, I just cant see it changing anytime soon

hardybuck

Slobbery wrote: »

No-one will protect you but when you are younger you are your own worst enemy you will try and play no matter what, stupid looking back all right, real short term approach, I once had a trainer tell me when I was younger that no-one he ever played with ever pulled a hamstring so he thought I was making excuses, I suppose you play not to appear soft, so people dont think you aren't committed enough etc...
I agree with you from the point of view that there isnt as much common sense applied to dealing with injuries as there should be, I just cant see it changing anytime soon

An interesting debate would involve the IRFU and their control of Irish contracted players.

The IRFU would actually have the Irish players less than the county squad would have club players. However, they stipulate to the provinces when players should be getting breaks to allow them to recover from injury, or to just manage their workload.

The result is that the Irish rugby players are less injury prone and extend their careers longer than their counterparts in England and France. It's actually a key factor in guys staying at home when they could be earning higher wages in those countries.

culbaire

hardybuck wrote: »

Give it up. Every side in the league played four games in four weekends during the league. Currently in the Leinster Championship Preliminary Rounds, teams are playing 4 games in 28 days, before playing in the Championship proper!

What is the county board's involvement in injury prevention here? Maurice Shanahan for example, seems to have togged out twice for his club while unfit. As a result, he's going to be out injured for a longer period, and unavailable for selection.

Given the money that has been invested in him during the preparations so far this year, and given the money that will now be invested in his recovery, should there be a closer role for the county team physio's in at least advising to the clubs?

Something you are forgetting: Counties do not own players. Clubs invest a lot of money, effort and time in development of young players. The reality is that the championships should have started two weeks earlier. That's the county board's fault. Remember this: If there are no clubs there will be no players. The county board made a mess of the timing of the fixtures. The football championship could have started two weeks earlier. This would have facilitated county selectors. The senior hurlers would have five weeks to prepare for the Cork game not the unsatisfactory three weeks.

hardybuck

culbaire wrote: »

Something you are forgetting: Counties do not own players. Clubs invest a lot of money, effort and time in development of young players. The reality is that the championships should have started two weeks sooner. Thats the co. board's fault. Remember this: If there are no clubs there will be no players. The county board made a mess of the timing of the fixtures. The football championship could have started two weeks earlier. This would have facilitated co. selectors.

Impossible. National Football League was on during this time.

Clubs get their county players for a small portion of the year. The underage county teams, development squads, schools, colleges etc. would have played a significant role in their development through childhood and young adulthood also - not just the clubs. You can be sure that the county board, and not the club, will now be spending money on getting this player back to fitness.

We're asking more questions now about player development, burnout and injury prevention. If the clubs aren't aware of the player's training schedule or don't have a full report on his physical condition, how can they take steps to ensure the player doesn't get injured once he is released into their care?

I mention care, because there is no duty of care towards the players from half these coaches and managers. Clubs are handing positions to guys with no training or qualifications and crossing their fingers that guys won't get hurt. We've gone beyond strained hamstrings, we're talking about young men requiring replacement hips and knees in their 30s.

Playing four games in four weeks won't result in you getting injured. Playing games while carrying an injury will almost certainly increase the severity of your injury.

Again, to cross into another sport, professional soccer players play at least one game a week for 9/10 months of the year. 30-40 games a year would be standard enough. While we're talking about amateurs, we would expect our GAA players to play about half as many games as that.

Why are our lads becoming so chronically injured at a young age? Waterford have kids at 18 getting double hip surgery. If a young lad in the Liverpool squad was getting that there would be serious questions asked.

comeraghs

If we lose to Cork, what weekend would we be out next & what teams might we be playing?

KevIRL

comeraghs wrote: »

If we lose to Cork, what weekend would we be out next & what teams might we be playing?

Pth2009 should be able to answer this. Pretty sure he has our path to oblivion mapped out for some time now

Ballyvoile Boy

hardybuck wrote: »

Impossible. National Football League was on during this time.

Clubs get their county players for a small portion of the year. The underage county teams, development squads, schools, colleges etc. would have played a significant role in their development through childhood and young adulthood also - not just the clubs. You can be sure that the county board, and not the club, will now be spending money on getting this player back to fitness.

We're asking more questions now about player development, burnout and injury prevention. If the clubs aren't aware of the player's training schedule or don't have a full report on his physical condition, how can they take steps to ensure the player doesn't get injured once he is released into their care?

I mention care, because there is no duty of care towards the players from half these coaches and managers. Clubs are handing positions to guys with no training or qualifications and crossing their fingers that guys won't get hurt. We've gone beyond strained hamstrings, we're talking about young men requiring replacement hips and knees in their 30s.

Playing four games in four weeks won't result in you getting injured. Playing games while carrying an injury will almost certainly increase the severity of your injury.

Again, to cross into another sport, professional soccer players play at least one game a week for 9/10 months of the year. 30-40 games a year would be standard enough. While we're talking about amateurs, we would expect our GAA players to play about half as many games as that.

Why are our lads becoming so chronically injured at a young age? Waterford have kids at 18 getting double hip surgery. If a young lad in the Liverpool squad was getting that there would be serious questions asked.

Excellent post. Especially the points re soccer players playing a game a week and having no adverse side effects, due to to taking care of themselves better. The other point about young players getting double hip operations is so true, it's frightening. I know of several in the county, all handy players of course - everyone wants a piece of them.

Slobbery

hardybuck wrote: »

Impossible. National Football League was on during this time.

Clubs get their county players for a small portion of the year. The underage county teams, development squads, schools, colleges etc. would have played a significant role in their development through childhood and young adulthood also - not just the clubs. You can be sure that the county board, and not the club, will now be spending money on getting this player back to fitness.

We're asking more questions now about player development, burnout and injury prevention. If the clubs aren't aware of the player's training schedule or don't have a full report on his physical condition, how can they take steps to ensure the player doesn't get injured once he is released into their care?

I mention care, because there is no duty of care towards the players from half these coaches and managers. Clubs are handing positions to guys with no training or qualifications and crossing their fingers that guys won't get hurt. We've gone beyond strained hamstrings, we're talking about young men requiring replacement hips and knees in their 30s.

Playing four games in four weeks won't result in you getting injured. Playing games while carrying an injury will almost certainly increase the severity of your injury.

Again, to cross into another sport, professional soccer players play at least one game a week for 9/10 months of the year. 30-40 games a year would be standard enough. While we're talking about amateurs, we would expect our GAA players to play about half as many games as that.

Why are our lads becoming so chronically injured at a young age? Waterford have kids at 18 getting double hip surgery. If a young lad in the Liverpool squad was getting that there would be serious questions asked.

Dara fives is another guy that played injured in the last few weeks, I agree with all your points.., and in an ideal world... But I wouldn't hold my breathe

Mountainlad

In fairness, professionals are totally geared towards their sport. Also these lads on the County team play a lot more games than just championship and league. Take Paudi Mahony, he was playing for WIT well say from the fitzgibbon last year. They made the semis, so 5 games there. I know he was actually injured for a good bit of the league, but hed have another 5 games there if fit. 4 championship games with Waterford. 8 championship games with Waterford. Then there's the Senior hurling colleges league, could play a few of those. I would say over the course of the year he made 10 other games be they challenges or whatever handy. That would come not very shy of 38 games.

There's no comparison, they don't get the same attention and rest

Bleating Lamb

Lads and Ladies,really appreciate if ye took quick look at and answered my thread about size of hurls.thanks,BL.

Mountainlad

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Lads and Ladies,really appreciate if ye took quick look at and answered my thread about size of hurls.thanks,BL.

When you have the good grace to call it a Hurley Il consider it :P

babs123

just looking at the paper to see Philip mahony been carried off not by medical staff in a chair position. I think this is absolutely disgraceful and so dangerous. A very serious injury like that the player should have been stabilised on the ground. This is where the GAA at club level falls down time and time again. If we hadn't as many stewards draining the resources maybe there would be more money for players well being . after all its them we are going to see

thesaturdayman

go way boy they wouldnt rattle a bag of chips out of dooleys!

the facts are there are 3 senior hurling teams and then the rest at best are premier intermediate teams in other counties.

i think the senior championship should be cut to 8 teams as should senior football and then a premier intermediate championship to accompany it.... 7 league games with top 6 qualifying for knock outstages. truth be told if u went to name top 8 in hurling or football you would have 3 in both codes that are obvious and then its splitting hairs after that

Mountainlad

thesaturdayman wrote: »

go way boy they wouldnt rattle a bag of chips out of dooleys!

the facts are there are 3 senior hurling teams and then the rest at best are premier intermediate teams in other counties.

i think the senior championship should be cut to 8 teams as should senior football and then a premier intermediate championship to accompany it.... 7 league games with top 6 qualifying for knock outstages. truth be told if u went to name top 8 in hurling or football you would have 3 in both codes that are obvious and then its splitting hairs after that

Who are the top 3?

tomwaterford

Mountainlad wrote: »

Who are the top 3?

DLS,ballygunner and em best of the rest team

maybe fourmilewater

thesaturdayman

tomwaterford wrote: »

DLS,ballygunner and em best of the rest team

maybe fourmilewater

4mile?! they wouldnt hurl spuds to ducks chief.... sky blues beat them the weekend sure....

top 3 in no particuarlar order mount sion, dls and bgunner....

best of the rest abbeyside when they arent fighting amongst each other

in football again in no order stradbally nire bcourty

best of the rest kilrossanty when they arent fighting amongst each other

tomwaterford

thesaturdayman wrote: »

4mile?! they wouldnt hurl spuds to ducks chief.... sky blues beat them the weekend sure....

top 3 in no particuarlar order mount sion, dls and bgunner....

best of the rest abbeyside when they arent fighting amongst each other

in football again in no order stradbally nire bcourty

best of the rest kilrossanty when they arent fighting amongst each other

mount sion would just about scrape into the top three IMO...though they are more than capable of pulling off big result....DLS and ballygunner would fancy them to beat any team in the county most days

thesaturdayman

tomwaterford wrote: »

mount sion would just about scrape into the top three IMO...though they are more than capable of pulling off big result....DLS and ballygunner would fancy them to beat any team in the county most days

bar passage last year in county final, in last 5 years the only team that knocked out bgunner dls or mount sion is bgunner mount sion or dls... so the fact is these 3 are miles ahead of the rest, passage are potentially capable of going back in again nice young team need to bring on another 3 or 4 lads though...

western teams are miles off the pace of the east dont know why that is presumably population based....

Mountainlad

thesaturdayman wrote: »

4mile?! they wouldnt hurl spuds to ducks chief.... sky blues beat them the weekend sure....

top 3 in no particuarlar order mount sion, dls and bgunner....

best of the rest abbeyside when they arent fighting amongst each other

in football again in no order stradbally nire bcourty

best of the rest kilrossanty when they arent fighting amongst each other

Sure didn't Fourmile hammer abbeyside last weekend.

The fact that Passage won last year when they probably wouldn't have been in your top 8 is proof that the Championship is fine.

The championship isn't that bad, if it was we wouldn't be as competitive in Munster as we are. Intermediate and Junior are awful though.

Mountainlad

thesaturdayman wrote: »

bar passage last year in county final, in last 5 years the only team that knocked out bgunner dls or mount sion is bgunner mount sion or dls... so the fact is these 3 are miles ahead of the rest, passage are potentially capable of going back in again nice young team need to bring on another 3 or 4 lads though...

western teams are miles off the pace of the east dont know why that is presumably population based....

By the way that's not true, Ballyduff knocked out Mount Sion just three short years ago.

hurler on de ditch

Ballyvoile Boy wrote: »

Excellent post. Especially the points re soccer players playing a game a week and having no adverse side effects, due to to taking care of themselves better. The other point about young players getting double hip operations is so true, it's frightening. I know of several in the county, all handy players of course - everyone wants a piece of them.

the season for injuries for our lads getting injuries is they actually play a contact sport ,where as in the case of English soccer players ,well its virtually a non contact sport ,where soccer lads can be out for months with a broken finger ffs

culbaire

hardybuck wrote: »

Impossible. National Football League was on during this time.

Clubs get their county players for a small portion of the year. The underage county teams, development squads, schools, colleges etc. would have played a significant role in their development through childhood and young adulthood also - not just the clubs. You can be sure that the county board, and not the club, will now be spending money on getting this player back to fitness.

We're asking more questions now about player development, burnout and injury prevention. If the clubs aren't aware of the player's training schedule or don't have a full report on his physical condition, how can they take steps to ensure the player doesn't get injured once he is released into their care?

I mention care, because there is no duty of care towards the players from half these coaches and managers. Clubs are handing positions to guys with no training or qualifications and crossing their fingers that guys won't get hurt. We've gone beyond strained hamstrings, we're talking about young men requiring replacement hips and knees in their 30s.

Playing four games in four weeks won't result in you getting injured. Playing games while carrying an injury will almost certainly increase the severity of your injury.

Again, to cross into another sport, professional soccer players play at least one game a week for 9/10 months of the year. 30-40 games a year would be standard enough. While we're talking about amateurs, we would expect our GAA players to play about half as many games as that.

Why are our lads becoming so chronically injured at a young age? Waterford have kids at 18 getting double hip surgery. If a young lad in the Liverpool squad was getting that there would be serious questions asked.

There is too much gym at inter-county and club level. Time to refocus on hurling and build fitness into actual hurling on the field.