Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Mountainlad

Waterford cd wrote: »

Lawlor will mind the house but I'd play fives there.. Liam will b happy to let His man score 3-4 points but not concede a goal . Can't b like that for inter county fives will fight dogishly for every ball and make it hard

1 goal equals 3 points. We conceded 13 (was it?) in 3 games. Not blaming Fives as such, but it was obvious even in the Tipp game that we were leaving too much space in behind.

Think Fives has a lot to offer, a great ball player and at bettering his man as you say, but think for now its in the half back line. And the option of playing Fives full back means, you have to start Barry Coughlan, with either himself or Bourke wing back and I can't see that being a better alternative.

cul beag

Mountainlad wrote: »

1 goal equals 3 points. We conceded 13 (was it?) in 3 games. Not blaming Fives as such, but it was obvious even in the Tipp game that we were leaving too much space in behind.

Think Fives has a lot to offer, a great ball player and at bettering his man as you say, but think for now its in the half back line. And the option of playing Fives full back means, you have to start Barry Coughlan, with either himself or Bourke wing back and I can't see that being a better alternative.

I think you will see Shane Fives at wing back and Liam Lawlor at full back. I've a feeling you could see 2 Championship debuts in the forward line. We'll wait and see. I did hear that Padraig Prendergast is flying at the moment and personally I can't for the life of me see how he has fell down the pecking order so much. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember him seeing and league action and with the amount we were conceding I found it peculiar to say the least!

seananigans

Has e everyoe seen this kk w'ford jersey?

http://www.azzurri.ie/Product-Detail/525/New-Waterford-2014-GAA-Football-Training-Jersey

Waterford cd

cul beag wrote: »

I think you will see Shane Fives at wing back and Liam Lawlor at full back. I've a feeling you could see 2 Championship debuts in the forward line. We'll wait and see. I did hear that Padraig Prendergast is flying at the moment and personally I can't for the life of me see how he has fell down the pecking order so much. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember him seeing and league action and with the amount we were conceding I found it peculiar to say the least!

Don't rate coughlan that much to be honest don't think he's up to it,, think Burke will b wing back I think nd as much as I don't think lawlor is up to it either he will be full back

PTH2009

This time next week we will knw what road the seniors are on

Will it be on the way to play clare in munster or a match against a losing Leinster team

With all our injuries and the calibre of our players it's hard to see us beating cork nxt Sunday, hopefully we give them a game

Championship time is an exciting time of year

Deise Doodler

Waterford cd wrote: »

Don't rate coughlan that much to be honest don't think he's up to it,, think Burke will b wing back I think nd as much as I don't think lawlor is up to it either he will be full back

Don't have a problem with Lawlor full back if fit but its not a long term solution , I still think fives is an option in that position with a bit more experience, if Lawlor is full back id like to see back line of fives in the corner with de burke wing back, I would have concerns about Nagle though, as well as he played last year ( and the start of this year) id still feel he's to loose a marker and lacking pace, but if brick is playing mid field it could be a very inexperienced looking half back line with out Nagle,

Been a while since we have had so many positions not nailed down by this time or year,

TGV

Just watched the down tyrone game today on rte player testing it for next few weeks. gaa go long overdue but very happy all the some ...happy also to pay the subscription to be able to watch match in comfort at home.

Horseboxhead

Would not like Liam Lawlor full back, if you have kevin moran centre back, When brick plays centre back in front of Lawlor, he plays it very deep giving him as much cover as he can, and still sometimes it does not work, Kevin Moran plays centre back differently he attacks space and the ball, plus he will make his trademark runs once or twice during the game, and Lawlors legs are not the best of him, I am not a massive fan of Liam at full back, and all this he won't let you down ect, really tells me he's no matter how long he's there a makeshift full back, he won't let you down but to the detriment to your defensive game plan because everyone is trying to cover his space, connors and brick have enough to be doing without having to do two jobs, if you watch Lawlor during a game, he is pulling everybody within earshot right in front of him, Think fives is as good now if not a better option and if he got half the cover Lawlor gets he'll do well, but can see Lawlor starting but don't think Waterford are in a great place, expect Cork by 5.

Deiseforall

Well, if people don't rate Lawlor - who has been the first choice fullback over the last few seasons - who do ye suggest will fill the fullback position for the senior team for the county going forward ??

hardybuck

Deiseforall wrote: »

Well, if people don't rate Lawlor - who has been the first choice fullback over the last few seasons - who do ye suggest will fill the fullback position for the senior team for the county going forward ??

Just because people mightn't rate him doesn't necessarily mean that there is an alternative.

Would he get into the KK full back line for example? Absolutely not, he mightn't make their squad even. That's the benchmark in terms of standards.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

Just because people mightn't rate him doesn't necessarily mean that there is an alternative.

Would he get into the KK full back line for example? Absolutely not, he mightn't make their squad even. That's the benchmark in terms of standards.

Very unfair criticism here. I thought he was one of our most consistent players last year. when he came in first in 2010 I thought he was dodgy but in fairness he really grew into the position in recent seasons. The only doubts Id have about him is his fitness he seems to have an awful hard job getting right for the championship every year and plays very little league. That is unsustainable in the long term and youd question if hes really up to 70 mins hurling. But ability wise I think hes well able for full back hes shown that over the past couple years.

On another topic what do people think of skys commentary line up? mike finnerty and that mcintyre fellah with jamesie o connor and nicky english summarising. Basically the same ****e we were subjected to with TV3 the last couple years bar that wooden plank cooper. Big let down

hardybuck

robopaddy wrote: »

Very unfair criticism here. I thought he was one of our most consistent players year. when he came in first in 2010 I thought he was dodgy but in fairness he really grew into the position in recent seasons. The only doubts Id have about him is his fitness he seems to have an awful hard job getting right for the championship every year and plays very little league. That is unsustainable in the long term and youd question if hes really up to 70 mins hurling. But ability wise I think hes well able for full back hes shown that over the past couple years.

On another topoc what do people think of skys commentary line up, mike finnerty and that mcintyre fellah with jamesie o connor and nicky english summarising. Basically the same ****e we were subjected to with TV3 the last couple years bar that wooden plank cooper. Be g let down

Let me be clear: I'm not intentionally singling him out for criticism. I don't think he's done a bad job, and he's probably been an improvement on his predecessors.

If he was to be described as consistent, I would say consistently average. He's done an OK, not been exposed too badly, but not been an All Star quality nominee sort of standard.

However, I don't think you can seperate ability and fitness. They're both very much linked. I also don't think it'd be unfair to suggest he wouldn't make the KK squad.

Don't like Jamesie O'Connor, and I don't think he likes Waterford too much either. Brian Carney will be an interesting addition.

Deiseforall

As we head in to 2014 championship - what consistency have we had at the full back position during the league campaign for 2014 and in the challenge games played since the league ended !! Sunday's game is vital for the County going forward - win or lose ! The whole set up of the full back LINE is vital for Waterford for the next few years. It is essential that we get it right.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

Let me be clear: I'm not intentionally singling him out for criticism. I don't think he's done a bad job, and he's probably been an improvement on his predecessors.

If he was to be described as consistent, I would say consistently average. He's done an OK, not been exposed too badly, but not been an All Star quality nominee sort of standard.

However, I don't think you can seperate ability and fitness. They're both very much linked. I also don't think it'd be unfair to suggest he wouldn't make the KK squad.

Don't like Jamesie O'Connor, and I don't think he likes Waterford too much either. Brian Carney will be an interesting addition.

Think it would be grossly unfair to suggest that given his two best games have been against that same team. Would he get in the Kilkenny fullback line? No, I suppose he wouldn't replace a 5 time all star (give or take) and hurler of the year. If Delaney is the benchmark, does that mean everybody else below him us average?

An absolutely pointless statement anyway, you can't be proven right or wrong and so how can anyone disprove your argument?

In relation to Moran, I think it says more about how Moran is not a centre back than that Lawlor isn't good where he is. Brick does the job now that every centre back is doing since Hickey got destroyed by Corbett. Unfair on Lawlor that hed be singled out as needing extra protection. McInerney got an all star last year, and he not only had a centre back in front of him but a spare man as well. People make the argument that suits them.

blue note

I don't understand the lack of respect we have for Liam Lawlor. He has been our best full back since the legendary Sean Cullinane (who in fairness is legendary at this stage). We are constantly being told that the next full forward he is going to face will destroy him, but no-one has yet. Some day someone will, but it won't mean he was a bad full back all along, it will just mean that he had a bad game / the guy he was marking had a great game.

blue note

Mountainlad wrote: »

Think it would be grossly unfair to suggest that given his two best games have been against that same team. Would he get in the Kilkenny fullback line? No, I suppose he wouldn't replace a 5 time all star (give or take) and hurler of the year. If Delaney is the benchmark, does that mean everybody else below him us average?

Delaney is not an all-star standard full back. Against Kilkenny last year Lawlor had a great game and was easily the best full back on the pitch.

Mountainlad

blue note wrote: »

Delaney is not an all-star standard full back. Against Kilkenny last year Lawlor had a great game and was easily the best full back on the pitch.

Agree on the second point. And Delaney was a natural as a wing back. Think hed adjusted though. Like whose better than him at the moment?

Maher maybe, but hes only back in there now. Need to see more of Peter Kelly. Richie McCarthy is not as good as he was made out to be last year.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

If he was to be described as consistent, I would say consistently average. He's done an OK, not been exposed too badly, but not been an All Star quality nominee sort of standard.

They're both very much linked. I also don't think it'd be unfair to suggest he wouldn't make the KK squad.

Your first point, I would consider his performances last year as being consistently solid. if you want to call it 'consistently average' thats ok too, but I dont think a fullback necessarily needs to be of allstar material to do his job well.

The second point is meaningless really and dosent prove/disprove anything

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

Think it would be grossly unfair to suggest that given his two best games have been against that same team. Would he get in the Kilkenny fullback line? No, I suppose he wouldn't replace a 5 time all star (give or take) and hurler of the year. If Delaney is the benchmark, does that mean everybody else below him us average?

An absolutely pointless statement anyway, you can't be proven right or wrong and so how can anyone disprove your argument?

If you want to play for Cody you have to be able to prove yourself in training, the infamous in house games etc. I couldn't see someone with his fitness issues being accomodated.

If Delaney was the benchmark in terms of standard and consistency, I wouldn't say the rest are average. I'd rate the likes of Peter Kelly, David McInerney, Richie McCarthy and Shane O'Neill as very good full backs. All pretty mobile as well.

hardybuck

blue note wrote: »

Delaney is not an all-star standard full back. Against Kilkenny last year Lawlor had a great game and was easily the best full back on the pitch.

He won an All Star at full back in 2012. I will give Lawlor great credit for a good performance on the day though.

Brad1234

Id prefer Fives... Lawlor does his job but usually concedes 3 or 4 points a game due to his mobility.. He has the centre back sitting on the 30 the two corner backs tucked in beside him and if a fella wins a ball off him when he is pulled out of position he backs off to leave him tap it over the bar.. Least with Fives hes more t*ts out but is mobile and the rest of the defenders aren't covering for him to the detriment of their game.

If Lawlor plays on sunday he'll do fine but the rest around him wont..

Mountainlad

Brad1234 wrote: »

Id prefer Fives... Lawlor does his job but usually concedes 3 or 4 points a game due to his mobility.. He has the centre back sitting on the 30 the two corner backs tucked in beside him and if a fella wins a ball off him when he is pulled out of position he backs off to leave him tap it over the bar.. Least with Fives hes more t*ts out but is mobile and the rest of the defenders aren't covering for him to the detriment of their game.

If Lawlor plays on sunday he'll do fine but the rest around him wont..

Who's covering the goal though? Nobody is.

PTH2009

heard the team are flying in training

Bennett and Daniels are back training on there own not with the team yet

What is everyone expecting next weekend ?? a hiding or a brave performance that will fall just short

tomwaterford

Deiseforall wrote: »

Well, if people don't rate Lawlor - who has been the first choice fullback over the last few seasons - who do ye suggest will fill the fullback position for the senior team for the county going forward ??

he can only be judged on his last performance....last year against Kilkenny...and gave a mighty performance there...how many players did kilk try on him??

Waterford cd

Mountainlad wrote: »

Think it would be grossly unfair to suggest that given his two best games have been against that same team. Would he get in the Kilkenny fullback line? No, I suppose he wouldn't replace a 5 time all star (give or take) and hurler of the year. If Delaney is the benchmark, does that mean everybody else below him us average?

An absolutely pointless statement anyway, you can't be proven right or wrong and so how can anyone disprove your argument?

In relation to Moran, I think it says more about how Moran is not a centre back than that Lawlor isn't good where he is. Brick does the job now that every centre back is doing since Hickey got destroyed by Corbett. Unfair on Lawlor that hed be singled out as needing extra protection. McInerney got an all star last year, and he not only had a centre back in front of him but a spare man as well. People make the argument that suits them.

Moran is a better centre back than brick.. Yes brick is great a getting loose ball and occasionally catching a great high ball but Kevin Moran is a far better hurler and I firmly believe Kevin should b centre back distributing the ball etc.. Richie foley wen fully fit will be a massive addition great hurler and one of the best operators out there on his day

Waterford cd

Brad1234 wrote: »

Id prefer Fives... Lawlor does his job but usually concedes 3 or 4 points a game due to his mobility.. He has the centre back sitting on the 30 the two corner backs tucked in beside him and if a fella wins a ball off him when he is pulled out of position he backs off to leave him tap it over the bar.. Least with Fives hes more t*ts out but is mobile and the rest of the defenders aren't covering for him to the detriment of their game.

If Lawlor plays on sunday he'll do fine but the rest around him wont..

Absolutely 100% agree

tomwaterford

Waterford cd wrote: »

Moran is a better centre back than brick.. Yes brick is great a getting loose ball and occasionally catching a great high ball but Kevin Moran is a far better hurler and I firmly believe Kevin should b centre back distributing the ball etc.. Richie foley wen fully fit will be a massive addition great hurler and one of the best operators out there on his day

moran deos get badly caught for pace at times....id love to see Philip mahony get a run in centre back in a few league games next year

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

If you want to play for Cody you have to be able to prove yourself in training, the infamous in house games etc. I couldn't see someone with his fitness issues being accomodated.

If Delaney was the benchmark in terms of standard and consistency, I wouldn't say the rest are average. I'd rate the likes of Peter Kelly, David McInerney, Richie McCarthy and Shane O'Neill as very good full backs. All pretty mobile as well.

I don't want to say too much more about this, but I would dispute Shane O'Neill being a very good full back and the evidence of that being Shane O'Donnelly, who in Clare is a promising player whos little above average at present scoring 3-2 off him in an all-ireland final. And before we say he's not to blame, I can't see how anyone could not fault him for the 3rd goal when he ran into his own man! Great corner back though (two totally different positions). Also think Richie McCarthy is over rated.

I would maybe agree with you on the fitness factor, but to say talent and fitness go hand in hand? I'd like you to elaborate on that, because Lawlor's are based on having a weakness in his knees, not on how capable a hurler he is. I do remember him playing all through last year, with the exception of the Clare league game when he was ill, and not injured. And from what I know, a lot of that was put down to Pat Flanagan, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised at the extent of the injury list we have this year.

Finally, it's this simple. Which do you think would be a better backline? Lawlor at full back, Bourke in the corner and Fives at wing back, or Fives full back, Coughlan corner and Bourke wing back. If you think it's the latter, then we'll respectfully disagree this time.

Waterford cd

tomwaterford wrote: »

moran deos get badly caught for pace at times....id love to see Philip mahony get a run in centre back in a few league games next year

Moran caught for pace??? Don't think that would be a problem Kevin doesn't lack pace shur he's twice as quick as brick

Mountainlad

Waterford cd wrote: »

Moran is a better centre back than brick.. Yes brick is great a getting loose ball and occasionally catching a great high ball but Kevin Moran is a far better hurler and I firmly believe Kevin should b centre back distributing the ball etc.. Richie foley wen fully fit will be a massive addition great hurler and one of the best operators out there on his day

Moran's distribution is shocking. More hurling than Brick, he's actually got his own limits himself though (comes from being more interested in soccer in his youth). Brick reads the game far better than Moran would, and you don't want your centre back driving up the field out of position.

Conversely, you do want your midfielder doing that a la Moran against Kilkenny last year. And a great man to score from distance. A big fan of him on form, but it would be worth remembering that so far this year, and last year, it's not many great games he had for Waterford.

And as a centre back, I believe he has played 5 games. Tipp in the Munster final in 2011, Michael Ryan's first two league games in charge, and the Clare league game this year. Now, tell me which one of those games went well?