Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Deise Doodler

After a extremely disappointing day not to mention season the following points I believe sum up where we stand. the question is can or will any of them be addressed efficiently enough to turn the qualifiers to our advantage or is this year and possible next going to be a write off ?

Management seem unable to assess the game as it evolves and seem to have unjustified loyalty to certain players

We seem unwilling to deviate from a game plan when it is clearly not working,

Tactics are all well and good but you at the end of it all its about putting the ball over the bar, tactics can not or should not stifle instinct

There would appear an issues with Our physical training programme ( or whoever is overseeing it) as the amount and type of injuries we are picking up seems ridiculous

We have lots of nice hurlers but lacking leadership and that bit of aggression in their play, have any of them the ability to start standing up and showing a bit of steel

Slobbery

nkay1985 wrote: »

Anyone at the game see what happened to gleeson?

Happened in front of me, nothing in it really, both having a hop of each other, a bit of a poke in the arm and went down but nothing in it, he got up and started again with a punch to the chest so i think he was ok!

Mountainlad

Question for lads like glic or maybe the blue blaa who are more up to date with the weekly happenings in the squad. Was Paudie Prendergast injured at any stage during the league?

Slobbery

Very Disappointing today, what can you say we were totally outclassed and Cork simply blew us away, their backs seemed to have it all their own way in possession and could stroll out unopposed to find a free men (of which multiple options were available) who could in turn deliver perfect ball into the forwards and the Cork forwards fired today.

I found myself thinking during the game, are we this bad? what level are we at? we are a long way from challenging anyway... The new lads did not shine like the debuts but it is hard to expect them to, it was a reality dose and I hope they can come back from it and put some decent performances in the qualifiers, if so, ultimately we will be knocked out in the quarter finals.

on the positives Colin Dunford played very well and I hope he is not seriously injured, Shane Fives was also very impressive one wonders what would have happened if he started on Cadogan the last day, Stephen O Keefe made some good saves and the high risk puck went awry at times but I don't think you can blame him, at least he has the confidence to stick to it when things are going wrong outside.
Some of the players tried til the very end and sitting through that 70 minutes of pain will make the good days all the sweeter.
still though very demoralised, its hard to know what level we are at, today was more of the same when compared to our worst league performances

KevIRL

Brian o Sullivan should have been sent off today. Missed it at the match but definitely struck the cork player with his hurl in the first minute. No excuse for it

robopaddy

I reckon its our worst performance in the Munster championship in 20
years. 1995 we were hammered by Tipp in the Munster championship. I cant think of any other game where we were as bad since. Bar the 2011 munster final which im not really counting as that was basically a tactical freakshow rather than us being out of our depth. As much as im sceptical about derek mcgrath I do beleive that he has to be given time regardless. The big calls he is going to have to make imo is moving on some of the older more experienced players. There are a few lads there who have given a lot over the years but based in what I have seen this year are not up to it anymore and have nothing more to offer.
Youth is the only way forward

Ropaire

Hamstrings59 wrote: »

Going forward McGrath is the only man for the job, we are a work in progress. Sad to see the knockers on here yet a word could never be said about Scully fcuk sake. Get behind your county and stop this western bitterness ropaire

I don't give a **** about this perceived east/west divide, I'll leave that to yourself. I do give a **** about the state of our county team and we're regressing at a rapid rate of knots, current management team are imposing a system on us that isn't working and is stifling good young players. How are they supposed to develop in games where we're getting slaughtered? All we're doing is cultivating an inferiority complex.

I don't rate Derek, I wasn't Skullys biggest fan either but he ****s all over what Derek has managed to achieve so far in his reign! Saying Derek is the only man for the job is pure stupidity as well, there's plenty of lads who I'd love to see get the job if the county board had a few quid, the likes of Donal O'Grady or Liam Sheedy would do alot more with those players than what we're seeing at the minute, but twe can't afford them. Derek isn't working out though, I don't care if he's yer boyfriend or yer Da or whatever, the lad just isn't getting anything close to the best possible from this team and unless he shows some sign of it improving I'd ratify someone like Queally for next year. He can't do any worse than what we're seeing so far like.

I don't buy into this transition talk as an acceptable reason to get a pasting by a team we've all acknowledged are very beatable. Soky is a brilliant keeper, his flooring of Nash was great after the peno, the lad was well up for it and he played well bar a few bad puckouts. The spine of the team is experienced enough with Lawlor, Brick, Moran and Sully, while Mahony has come along alot this year. We shouldn't be shipping hidings like we got today, last year we played Clare and Kilkenny off the pitch but couldn't take our scores. This year we're getting destroyed. Wake up boy, if this trend keeps going we'll be in the Christy Ring in a few years.

citykat

Ropaire wrote: »

We shouldn't be shipping hidings like we got today, last year we played Clare and Kilkenny off the pitch but couldn't take our scores.

Think you're losing the run of yourself there boy. Waterford had a purple patch late in the second half when they scored successive points; Moran was on fire. You were kept in the match by some dubious refereeing decisions and were blown away in extra time. That's what actually happened.

Slobbery

citykat wrote: »

Think you're losing the run of yourself there boy. Waterford had a purple patch late in the second half when they scored successive points; Moran was on fire. You were kept in the match by some dubious refereeing decisions and were blown away in extra time. That's what actually happened.

To be fair to you, you are right

Ropaire

citykat wrote: »

Think you're losing the run of yourself there boy. Waterford had a purple patch late in the second half when they scored successive points; Moran was on fire. You were kept in the match by some dubious refereeing decisions and were blown away in extra time. That's what actually happened.

We should have been much further ahead at half time, we played Kilkenny off the pitch for the first 50 odd minutes but were fading badly at the end of normal time when those missed scores would have seen us home. We showed a bit of fight that is sadly very lacking in the current incarnation of the county team to stay in it in extra time, but yeah we got a goal that was a square ball if I remember in extra time and the like to keep it closeer than it should have been at the end. Way better showing than anything we've done this year though!

deisedude

Didn't see the sunday game. What did they say about O'Keefe saving Nashs penalty?

Ropaire

deisedude wrote: »

Didn't see the sunday game. What did they say about O'Keefe saving Nashs penalty?

They said the referees interpret the rule on when the ball is hit as when the keeper touches the ball to rise it. So O'Keeffe was fine to rush Nash. I wonder if O'Keeffe managed to meet Nash with a shoulder before he struck it what would happen.

Mountainlad

Is there really any point in talking about whether Waterford did or didn't deserve to draw with Kilkenny almost 12 months ago now.

No point bringing up Michael Ryan's name either, hes not coming back.

rebel girl 15

Mountainlad wrote: »

Is there really any point in talking about whether Waterford did or didn't deserve to draw with Kilkenny almost 12 months ago now.

No point bringing up Michael Ryan's name either, hes not coming back.

He was at the game though!

Mountainlad

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

He was at the game though!

He'll always be at the game, not a bitter bone in his body.

Ropaire

Mountainlad wrote: »

Is there really any point in talking about whether Waterford did or didn't deserve to draw with Kilkenny almost 12 months ago now.

No point bringing up Michael Ryan's name either, hes not coming back.

What we deserved from that game is irrelevant at this stage. Kilkenny have gone up a few gears since last year if that game against Offaly on Saturday is anything to go by, we're going backwards and hopefully we don't end up playing them this year because on current form we'll be totally destroyed.

TCDStudent1

Ropaire wrote: »

They said the referees interpret the rule on when the ball is hit as when the keeper touches the ball to rise it. So O'Keeffe was fine to rush Nash. I wonder if O'Keeffe managed to meet Nash with a shoulder before he struck it what would happen.

Pretty sure it would lead to a shemozzle that would keep us all entertained. So lets hope it happens in one of the next games against Cork!

ShamoBuc

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Pretty sure it would lead to a shemozzle that would keep us all entertained. So lets hope it happens in one of the next games against Cork!

Its not a Cork thing though, lots of other counties are doing it, Kildare yesterday for example.

TCDStudent1

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Its not a Cork thing though, lots of other counties are doing it, Kildare yesterday for example.

Fair enough, I didnt see the Kildare match yesterday.

Bad day for you guys and I fear the year will not get any better for Waterford :-(

ShamoBuc

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Fair enough, I didnt see the Kildare match yesterday.

Bad day for you guys and I fear the year will not get any better for Waterford :-(

Waterford will have a fine rattle off whoever they play next. Get a few players back from injury and they'll do okay.

We'll have a rattle off Clare, but I think they'll beat us next Sunday.

culbaire

citykat wrote: »

Think you're losing the run of yourself there boy. Waterford had a purple patch late in the second half when they scored successive points; Moran was on fire. You were kept in the match by some dubious refereeing decisions and were blown away in extra time. That's what actually happened.

Nothing like a blinkered Kilkenny man!!

robopaddy

Ropaire wrote: »

They said the referees interpret the rule on when the ball is hit as when the keeper touches the ball to rise it. So O'Keeffe was fine to rush Nash. I wonder if O'Keeffe managed to meet Nash with a shoulder before he struck it what would happen.

Fair play to o'keeffe for taking this on but a pity we didnt see the same hunger and agression from the team throughout the course of the 70 mins

robopaddy

Ropaire wrote: »

They said the referees interpret the rule on when the ball is hit as when the keeper touches the ball to rise it. So O'Keeffe was fine to rush Nash. I wonder if O'Keeffe managed to meet Nash with a shoulder before he struck it what would happen.

Fair play to o'keeffe for taking this on but a pity we didnt see the same hunger and agression from the team throughout the course of the 70 mins

3ships

Deise Doodler wrote: »

After a extremely disappointing day not to mention season the following points I believe sum up where we stand. the question is can or will any of them be addressed efficiently enough to turn the qualifiers to our advantage or is this year and possible next going to be a write off ?

Overall I think the players that started today was about right. After today we may have to make a few changes. Just a couple of points.

Management seem unable to assess the game as it evolves and seem to have unjustified loyalty to certain players

SOS average, Dillon as poor as I've seen him and BOS is not mullane even tho the gameplan insists that he has to be, BOS at 14 is a non runner, leave him take a couple of points from off the play at 15 and leave Shane Walsh/Dillon in FF. The alternatives Ritchie Foley, Donie Breathnach and Ray Barry may have not done enough the last day but I'd give them their chance in qualifiers. Dunno if anyone else will be fit

We seem unwilling to deviate from a game plan when it is clearly not working,

Went long to Seamus in 2nd half, the default plan B

Tactics are all well and good but you at the end of it all its about putting the ball over the bar, tactics can not or should not stifle instinct

We hit 14 wides today and wasted some good possession in final third of pitch. There is a distinct lack of instinct in the forwards thats why Gleeson and Dunford are promoted early but still they are very young

There would appear an issues with Our physical training programme ( or whoever is overseeing it) as the amount and type of injuries we are picking up seems ridiculous

Don't know whats going on there. Bar Shane Fives and Kevin Moran almost everyone else have have had an injury or lacking either strength or pace. Brick I think was carrying a knock today and Mahony has been excellent but not mobile compared to Cork wing forwards today anyway. Colin Dunford going off injured when flying was just depressing

We have lots of nice hurlers but lacking leadership and that bit of aggression in their play, have any of them the ability to start standing up and showing a bit of steel

we have at the back but I see Maurice and Daragh Fives as 2 that can lead from front but not fit of course. Jake Dillon I hope can step up.

Psychedelic

PTH2009 wrote: »

We are going nowhere this season. We will lose to Wexford.dublin,Galway and Laois wud give us a tough game.

Have a feeling we will get dublin or Galway away in the qualifiers.

The dates are sat 28th June or sat 5 July

How many points do you think we'll get hammered by Dublin or Galway? 40 or 50 maybe? Next year we get relegated to division 2. Then after that we get beat out the gate by Kerry. In 2016 we get destroyed by Warwickshire. We may as well just give up now, we're crap, there's no hope.

Psychedelic

We were terrible today though, one of the worst performances I've seen. Gotta keep the faith though, only one more good performance from making us all believe again.

Motivator

TGV wrote: »

So kicking out the manager mid way through the year is a goods idea? Who in their right mind would want the job. We were not good enough today but much of this surly has to be with the guys on the field.

In the 2 weeks since the drawn game what were they doing in training? Their first touch was horrific, there was no game plan, there were no leaders on the pitch. If it isn't the managers job to address the previously stated then feel free to tell me who's responsible for what I have just mentioned. All the talk about McGrath and his "world class" backroom team he isn't up to it. The result 2 weeks ago has been confirmed as a fluke as much as it pains me to say it. Also the 9 point lead thrown away 2 weeks ago must be blamed on McGrath. The switches he made played straight in to Cork's hands, allowing them time and space all over the pitch. If the management can't be blamed for this rubbish then who can be blamed? Yes, ultimately, the players are the ones who do the scoring and performing on the pitch but they looked severely underprepared from the getgo today and there's only one man who can be held accountable.

I'm sorry but what you're saying is complete and utter rubbish.

citykat

Ropaire wrote: »

What we deserved from that game is irrelevant at this stage. Kilkenny have gone up a few gears since last year if that game against Offaly on Saturday is anything to go by, we're going backwards and hopefully we don't end up playing them this year because on current form we'll be totally destroyed.

I wouldn't make any assessment on KK after Sat as Offaly were probably the worst inter county team I've ever seen in a championship. Whoever gets them next is laughing.

Newson123

It's not just the result, it's the embarrassment that they bring the county and the supporters. No other team makes a fool of their county quite like our team does. It shouldn't be acceptable. It wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else, but it's been acceptable here for a long time.

The manager should look at the game again, choose the worst, say, 7 players (the more high profile the better) and tell them to go home and try and make the team again next year. He should pick the next best in the county and give them a chance for the rest of the year. This is a specific problem that we have - complete collapse - and the only way of sorting it, is by getting rid of the players who do the collapsing. Let the entire team know, if they do it, they're gone.

culbaire

3ships wrote: »

we have at the back but I see Maurice and Daragh Fives as 2 that can lead from front but not fit of course. Jake Dillon I hope can step up.

I could accept a heavy beating by Cork if it were an exceptionally good Cork team. This Cork team cannot be rated with the great Cork teams of old. However Jimmy Barry Murphy is getting the best out of the team and gradually improving the players skills. Contrast the speed of movement and striking of the Cork players with the sluggishness and appallingly slow striking of Waterford.

I like the way some people here assume that our backline is solid. It is nothing of the sort. Cork forwards roamed all over the place today often ten metres from the Waterford backs who should be picking them up. Backs today were easily rounded and caught for speed. Couldn't even tackle properly in many cases. When you see players half heartedly sticking out hurleys you know we have big problems. We have huge weaknesses all over the field. Some of the players have definitely lost pace. The training regime is WRONG, WRONG,WRONG. It is DIRECTIONLESS!! It is twenty years behind the times.

What is so disheartening is that the management committee clearly lacks the capacity to iron out weaknesses. Does anybody seriously think that today's performance would be accepted in Kilkenny? In transition my foot!!! Clare last year with a very young team won the All Ireland. Its time to drop the transition nonsense and face facts. The team is going backwards. The reality is that this Management Committee lacks the expertise to address the problems. It needs outside help. Oh how we could do with Ger Cunningham!! It is time for Derek McGrath, Willie Maher and Dan Shanahan to admit that they need a skills expert to help prepare the team.
Dont expect anybody in Waterford to challenge them on that. We accept too much mediocrity. That's why we have not won a Senior Hurling All Ireland since 1959.