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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1
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Professey Chin wrote: »See the picture going around of SOKs bruise from blocking the shot?
Headcase :pac:
He must be thinking now why did i bother putting myself through that s***e....
Had no bearing on the result anyway as the same level of hunger and agression was sadly absent through many areas out the field.
Interesting reading mullanes article on the independent today. Seem to be critical of management more so than players....0 -
What you need is the guys outside to be causing damage, than it's decision time for the other management, do they send out a back thereby creating more space and opportunity for our out numbered forwards or they withdraw a forward of there own, if the guys out the middle aren't causing damage by taking long range scores or by carrying the ball at pace to create overlaps in the forwards than the whole thing short circuits...
Not necessarily. What you might be doing is just spoiling the opposition forwards by depriving them of space, forcing their moves to break down/hit wides/not get goal opportunities.
The upshot should be that you also get space in the forward line IF you've got the players to exploit that. And let me tell you as a former back that the absolute last thing you want is marking pace and space.
We seem to have major issue getting ball that far up the field, and when we do we seem to have a problem with making it stick.0 -
Any word on Dunfords injury?0
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U21's are playing in the fraher field this evening at 7.30 against UCC if anyone can stomach anymore after yesterday!0
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Not necessarily. What you might be doing is just spoiling the opposition forwards by depriving them of space, forcing their moves to break down/hit wides/not get goal opportunities.
The upshot should be that you also get space in the forward line IF you've got the players to exploit that. And let me tell you as a former back that the absolute last thing you want is marking pace and space.
We seem to have major issue getting ball that far up the field, and when we do we seem to have a problem with making it stick.
I'm a back myself, I don't think any set of backs can hold out even by denying forwards space, if every ball they clear is coming back with interest everytime they clear it for 70 odd minutes0 -
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Anyone else find watching the match online was rubbish with the quality of the streaming?0
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Anyone else find watching the match online was rubbish with the quality of the streaming?
Yep. Have 100MB broadband with UPC and the stream was pixelated and stopped on a number of occasions. If this is the standard that GAAgo will have it'll be a waste of money. The commentator would put you to sleep and it seemed that the only mic in the place was his with no crowd noise bar the odd rebels, rebels chant.0 -
I could accept a heavy beating by Cork if it were an exceptionally good Cork team. This Cork team cannot be rated with the great Cork teams of old. However Jimmy Barry Murphy is getting the best out of the team and gradually improving the players skills. Contrast the speed of movement and striking of the Cork players with the sluggishness and appallingly slow striking of Waterford.
I like the way some people here assume that our backline is solid. It is nothing of the sort. Cork forwards roamed all over the place today often ten metres from the Waterford backs who should be picking them up. Backs today were easily rounded and caught for speed. Couldn't even tackle properly in many cases. When you see players half heartedly sticking out hurleys you know we have big problems. We have huge weaknesses all over the field. Some of the players have definitely lost pace. The training regime is WRONG, WRONG,WRONG. It is DIRECTIONLESS!! It is twenty years behind the times.
What is so disheartening is that the management committee clearly lacks the capacity to iron out weaknesses. Does anybody seriously think that today's performance would be accepted in Kilkenny? In transition my foot!!! Clare last year with a very young team won the All Ireland. Its time to drop the transition nonsense and face facts. The team is going backwards. The reality is that this Management Committee lacks the expertise to address the problems. It needs outside help. Oh how we could do with Ger Cunningham!! It is time for Derek McGrath, Willie Maher and Dan Shanahan to admit that they need a skills expert to help prepare the team.
Dont expect anybody in Waterford to challenge them on that. We accept too much mediocrity. That's why we have not won a Senior Hurling All Ireland since 1959.
Culbaire you should post after the decent displays too. I wonder is there anything positive about Waterford hurling.
We will find out next Sunday how good Cork are. I think they have to be all ireland contenders and improved at 3,6,9 and Alan Cadogan on last year.
Personnelly I think we do have good defenders and if we don't then I don't know why i bother going to these matches. The defence breaks down when there is no energy or ball winning ability in the forwards. Even at that the Full back line did well, the 'rotating' half back line was a bit of a mess, we do need to get that right, isn't that the first thing any hurling manager tries to do. We do need a bit more pace and be a bit more in your face,maybe adopt the Clare style grappling (or fouling for a better term)
Comparing us to Kilkenny is pointless. Comparing us to Clare is not correct and you know it. Were they not in transition for a long time and thats why they went back to drawing board and with fantastically coached and instructed young players are now the template for modern hurling (for now anyway). To match their success we need to make an impression at U-21 for the next 3 years and we have the players to do so, we don't have Gerry o Connor Paul Kinnerk and the rest of the Clare management team so it is going to be difficult but we don't need to 'start again'.
The management team of Flannery, Maher and McGrath are a bit inter county hurling team 101 alright. There is a steep learning curve from their success at Fitz, Minor and Harty respectively but they are NOT going to get anyone else in to help, they are ambitious and will want to prove themselves over the term of 3 years, and I wouldn't blame them for that. At the moment maybe McGrath is putting his stamp on things and we wait to see if the other two will have a significant imput, similarly to the way Davy has deferred to Paul Kinnerk in tactical preparation. As for Dan, I just wish he can show the lads where the f*****g goal is.
However transition is not an excuse and I agree transition me foot. The DLS Harty success was 7/8 years ago now, do we wait till 2022 for the Dungarvan lads to do the business no. There should be no transition. In 2009 after the debacle of 2008 All Ireland there was some hope for the future of Waterford hurling. We had decent U-21 and minor teams.
A sample 15 from lets say the class of 2009
SOK, Connors,Shane Fives, J Maher, P Prender, Philip Mahony, S Daniels, D O Sullivan, D Fives, Paudie Mahony, M Shanahan, B O Halloran, B O Sullivan, M O Neill, J Dillon
I would have expected that team to provide the basis for the current squad. Add in the likes or Brick, Moran and later Barron and Barry and a couple of others and that should be a strong platform going forward. That is BEFORE you consider the obvious talent of the All Ireland minor and schools winners last year. There is a perception now that we went from the swashbuckling 'noughties' team to zero to building from 2013 underage success - that's wrong. We have been successful (for us) since 2007 at various levels. What is wrong is the amount of injuries we have and I do wonder why. Just look at that 2009 team above and others, it is ridiculous the injuries. Just give me a Waterford squad with the equivalent injury list of say Limerick and the conditioning of ALL the other top counties and we will be a major force. The skill and speed of striking, the hooking, the blocking and gameplans will develope from that. Fitness, application, desire andthen the rest will be easy we have the hurlers0 -
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Curing their hangovers is it? Some of the players looked knackered in the first half yesterday. Fitness is really a problem, doesn't help when they're off drowning their sorrows in beer either. Most county players wouldn't look at each other for days if they got a hammering like that yesterday. How long did Clare stay off the beer last year?Miwadi and Biscuits in Derek McGrath's house today0 -
Completely disheartened leaving the game yesterday but on reflection I dont not think we are as bad as that. We seem to have a problem that once things start going against us and teams get a run on us, we lose our shape and teams put up big scores against us. I would agree with some posters that some players are there based on reputation. I thought Shane Fives came in and did well yesterday and Paidi Prendergast did well when he came on. I hate criticising players but before the drawn game, I didn't think it was too bad a blow that Shane O' Sullivan was injured and yesterdays game reinforced it for me. His trick of running into players and flailing his arms looking for frees is known by the referees now and I think his overall contribution is not enough throughout the full 70 min. I think if Darragh Fives is fit I would play him in the middle as we were being overrun yesterday. Hopefully we get a good draw in the Qualifiers and we might get a chance to build up some momentum. Realistically this year is not going to produce and silverware or even semi finals but hopefully we can show enough over the coming months to make us have some optimism going forward. On the plus side , I think we have the best shot stopper in the country between the sticks and some lovely hurlers who hopefully will shine in the coming years. Deise abu.0
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On something more of a positive, the fact we had 14 or 15 wides yesterday is something good as that can be worked on and improved. Would be worse if we got 14 points and only say 5 wides meaning we werent getting many chances
Clutching at straws, I know...0 -
Deise_2012 wrote: »Curing their hangovers is it? Some of the players looked knackered in the first half yesterday. Fitness is really a problem, doesn't help when they're off drowning their sorrows in beer either. Most county players wouldn't look at each other for days if they got a hammering like that yesterday. How long did Clare stay off the beer last year?
At the end of the day they're amateurs,have probably lived like monks for months and even with the poor showing yesterday they surely deserve a life outside of the GAA. Personally I've no issue with them leaving off steam,if they did so last night.0 -
Having watched the game back in full it was scary how akin the performance was to some of the tough days under Davy...loads of men swarming back but not picking up anyone, misplaced handpassing, constant switching of player's positions, wayward shooting, high hail Mary balls from the back to nobody and it genuinely looked like some of the lads were scared to have a go and get involved. Whatever Skullys tactical failings he did throw the shackles off and allowed lads to hurl...we are patently not suited to this defensive system and it is a mystery why management persist with it...it is almost like a pre-game admission that we aren't good enough to take on the opposition and I don't believe that's true and I think a lot of the supporters who aren't travelling don't believe that either.0
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Personally speaking I have little time for the idea that there is always next year - the reality is that yesterday's performance was not good enough on a number of levels, the management clearly were not on top of their brief , and some players repaid some dubious loyalty with a disjointed performance. Cork had pretty much the same amount of wides as Waterford but won pulling up with 14 points to spare. Could Soky be persuaded to play out the field?.
Does anyone know when the draw will be made for the qualifiers?.
Glad the players went out for a few bottles - really makes me feel better about things today.0 -
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Deise_2012 wrote: »Curing their hangovers is it? Some of the players looked knackered in the first half yesterday. Fitness is really a problem, doesn't help when they're off drowning their sorrows in beer either. Most county players wouldn't look at each other for days if they got a hammering like that yesterday. How long did Clare stay off the beer last year?
Every other county is allowed off to enjoy themselves every now and then and you know that. These lads are entitled to some bit of a life every now and then.
You should think about getting one yourself instead of spying on lads around bars so you can come back with a bit of negative gossip to suit ur own argument0 -
Having watched the game back in full it was scary how akin the performance was to some of the tough days under Davy...loads of men swarming back but not picking up anyone, misplaced handpassing, constant switching of player's positions, wayward shooting, high hail Mary balls from the back to nobody and it genuinely looked like some of the lads were scared to have a go and get involved. Whatever Skullys tactical failings he did throw the shackles off and allowed lads to hurl...we are patently not suited to this defensive system and it is a mystery why management persist with it...it is almost like a pre-game admission that we aren't good enough to take on the opposition and I don't believe that's true and I think a lot of the supporters who aren't travelling don't believe that either.
Where can I see it in full?0 -
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Nail on the head here but that mentality is disturbingly widespread. Even look through all the Waterford threads on here and count how many times phrases like better as underdogs, catch them by surprise and won't have that opportunity again are used. This is a horrible mentality to have and there's genuinely no point in it. Most of this team are lads who've grown up without any fear of other teams but being so defensive is probably causing fear and making them question themselves and their abilities.Having watched the game back in full it was scary how akin the performance was to some of the tough days under Davy...loads of men swarming back but not picking up anyone, misplaced handpassing, constant switching of player's positions, wayward shooting, high hail Mary balls from the back to nobody and it genuinely looked like some of the lads were scared to have a go and get involved. Whatever Skullys tactical failings he did throw the shackles off and allowed lads to hurl...we are patently not suited to this defensive system and it is a mystery why management persist with it...it is almost like a pre-game admission that we aren't good enough to take on the opposition and I don't believe that's true and I think a lot of the supporters who aren't travelling don't believe that either.
No constant winners are a team of underdogs. That mentality might get brief success but it won't remain. We shouldn't be a trying to catch teams on the hop. There's more then enough quality on that panel to go out, go man against man and put it up to any team in the country. They might not win every game but I can guarantee you'd be putting up better fights then the absolute hammerings we've been getting this year.0 -
Well done to Stephen O'keefe, Shane Fives, Brick, Paudie prendergast when introduced, Colin dunford to name as few and the rest of the lads who kept going til the last minute in difficult circumstances.
Hard to know where we are after yesterday, we will see how the years pans out, cork did beat Clare by 8 points at a similar stage last year.
I think that we will have a few years with days like yesterday but also with days like two weeks ago, and it will come right in the end. We may not be contenders for a while but we will have good days thrown in, we will be back up there in a few years and if that is the case we will still have had a much smoother transition than the likes of wexford, Offaly etc....
If there was nothing coming through, no underage coming, getting hammered every minor game it would be bleak
- but we have to be realistic and positive, it won't happen overnight but it will happen lads, we are not staring over the edge of a precipice here.
If the lads want to go for a drink after last night good luck to them, no harm leaving off a bit of steam, any young man who puts in the effort required to be the best in his county and gets to pull on an jersey is doing a lot more right than wrong so no harm in that at all0 -
Deise_2012 wrote: »Curing their hangovers is it? Some of the players looked knackered in the first half yesterday. Fitness is really a problem, doesn't help when they're off drowning their sorrows in beer either. Most county players wouldn't look at each other for days if they got a hammering like that yesterday. How long did Clare stay off the beer last year?
Unless they've been beering all year, liqour had nothing to do with the result yesterday.
Regarding Clare, they all had drinks the night of the drawn All Irl, in fact a few of them were in Coppers. Didn't affect them in the least a fortnight later.
A night out or two won't damage their fitness and it won't be the central factor if fitness levels are below where they should be.
Yes, they looked goosed in the 1st half, but that happens when things are going against you, momentum is a very hard thing to stem, Cork had it yesterday.0 -
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There was very little positive about yesterday's display. I happened to hear a few minutes of the Billy McCarthy Show this morning. Heard a former Waterford hurler who sought to minimise yesterday's disastrous performance. He is very happy with the current management set up labelling it as good. He sought to make excuses left, right and centre. He laboured the point about the number of young players on the team. As far as he is concerned it will take a few years for success to be achieved. That argument is nonsensical. Clare won the All Ireland last year with a glorified U-21 team. The motto must be: "its now or never".Culbaire you should post after the decent displays too. I wonder is there anything positive about Waterford hurling.
We will find out next Sunday how good Cork are. I think they have to be all ireland contenders and improved at 3,6,9 and Alan Cadogan on last year.
Personnelly I think we do have good defenders and if we don't then I don't know why i bother going to these matches. The defence breaks down when there is no energy or ball winning ability in the forwards. Even at that the Full back line did well, the 'rotating' half back line was a bit of a mess, we do need to get that right, isn't that the first thing any hurling manager tries to do. We do need a bit more pace and be a bit more in your face,maybe adopt the Clare style grappling (or fouling for a better term)
Comparing us to Kilkenny is pointless. Comparing us to Clare is not correct and you know it. Were they not in transition for a long time and thats why they went back to drawing board and with fantastically coached and instructed young players are now the template for modern hurling (for now anyway). To match their success we need to make an impression at U-21 for the next 3 years and we have the players to do so, we don't have Gerry o Connor Paul Kinnerk and the rest of the Clare management team so it is going to be difficult but we don't need to 'start again'.
The management team of Flannery, Maher and McGrath are a bit inter county hurling team 101 alright. There is a steep learning curve from their success at Fitz, Minor and Harty respectively but they are NOT going to get anyone else in to help, they are ambitious and will want to prove themselves over the term of 3 years, and I wouldn't blame them for that. At the moment maybe McGrath is putting his stamp on things and we wait to see if the other two will have a significant imput, similarly to the way Davy has deferred to Paul Kinnerk in tactical preparation. As for Dan, I just wish he can show the lads where the f*****g goal is.
However transition is not an excuse and I agree transition me foot. The DLS Harty success was 7/8 years ago now, do we wait till 2022 for the Dungarvan lads to do the business no. There should be no transition. In 2009 after the debacle of 2008 All Ireland there was some hope for the future of Waterford hurling. We had decent U-21 and minor teams.
A sample 15 from lets say the class of 2009
SOK, Connors,Shane Fives, J Maher, P Prender, Philip Mahony, S Daniels, D O Sullivan, D Fives, Paudie Mahony, M Shanahan, B O Halloran, B O Sullivan, M O Neill, J Dillon
I would have expected that team to provide the basis for the current squad. Add in the likes or Brick, Moran and later Barron and Barry and a couple of others and that should be a strong platform going forward. That is BEFORE you consider the obvious talent of the All Ireland minor and schools winners last year. There is a perception now that we went from the swashbuckling 'noughties' team to zero to building from 2013 underage success - that's wrong. We have been successful (for us) since 2007 at various levels. What is wrong is the amount of injuries we have and I do wonder why. Just look at that 2009 team above and others, it is ridiculous the injuries. Just give me a Waterford squad with the equivalent injury list of say Limerick and the conditioning of ALL the other top counties and we will be a major force. The skill and speed of striking, the hooking, the blocking and gameplans will develope from that. Fitness, application, desire andthen the rest will be easy we have the hurlers
This is not a personal grudge. I have nothing against any one on the management team. However it is obvious that they need an outside influence to help them to prepare the team. Fresh thinking and a fresh approach is required. Defenders were ten metres away from the players they were marking. They were incapable of tackling effectively and were too easily rounded. Cork roamed wild at centre field. There was effectively no half forward line. The full forward line was also ineffective. The striking of most of the players was painfully slow and sluggish. Just another interesting point: Had the managemt team anybody in the stands to get an overall view?
This was an appalling performance. It would not be tolerated in Kilkenny or Cork. The Cork players were savaged after the drawn game. Today on WLR a former great Waterford player was just too mild in his comments. At least on this forum a lot of posters are attempting to analyse the weaknesses and talk about possible solutions. It is time to stop codding ourselves in Waterford and tell it as it is. That does not mean that we make personal attacks on management or players.0 -
Not much to say about yesterday. All I will say is in 2011, two years after Clares break through U21 all Ireland, they suffered a 17 point defeat to Galway who were beaten by 10 point s by Waterford who had been beaten by 21 points by Tipp, who struggled over Dublin, who lost to Antrim the year before and were hammered by Kilkenny the following year, who one year later they beat on the way to win Leinster, only to lose to Cork, who lost the All-Ireland final to Clare.
Strange game we follow.0 -
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I can understand the frustration of Waterford Supporters as the team didn't do themselves justice yesterday but surely people can see there's huge potential there. O Keefe is a superb shot stopper and has the heart of a lion - 1 goal conceded over 2 games and no falut to him. Connors is top class and always has Patrick Horgan in his pocket. Prendergast looked a good prospect and confined Cadogan to a pt. I haven't seen Darragh Fives but if he's better than Shane then he's some player. Shane was MOTH for Carrigtwohill in the win v Bride Rovers last week. De Burca and Barrett look very promising too. Some great forwards coming through in Gleeson and Dunford and Jake Dillon was MOTM in the Fitz Final (he'll come good) Manony and Shanahan can be match winners on their day.
Derek McGrath almost pulled off a massive win the first day and although things went skew-ways yesterday, he'll learn a lot. Waterford have a very good U21 side and I fear a serious trimming for Cork in July - I think that this side can win an AI for Waterford within 3/4 years and I'll be delighted when it happens.
Keep the faith - things can turn quickly0 -
There was very little positive about yesterday's display. I happened to hear a few minutes of the Billy McCarthy Show this morning. Heard a former Waterford hurler who sought to minimise yesterday's disastrous performance. He is very happy with the current management set up labelling it as good. He sought to make excuses left, right and centre. He laboured the point about the number of young players on the team. As far as he is concerned it will take a few years for success to be achieved. That argument is nonsensical. Clare won the All Ireland last year with a glorified U-21 team. The motto must be: "its now or never".
This is not a personal grudge. I have nothing against any one on the management team. However it is obvious that they need an outside influence to help them to prepare the team. Fresh thinking and a fresh approach is required. Defenders were ten metres away from the players they were marking. They were incapable of tackling effectively and were too easily rounded. Cork roamed wild at centre field. There was effectively no half forward line. The full forward line was also ineffective. The striking of most of the players was painfully slow and sluggish. Just another interesting point: Had the managemt team anybody in the stands to get an overall view?
This was an appalling performance. It would not be tolerated in Kilkenny or Cork. The Cork players were savaged after the drawn game. Today on WLR a former great Waterford player was just too mild in his comments. At least on this forum a lot of posters are attempting to analyse the weaknesses and talk about possible solutions. It is time to stop codding ourselves in Waterford and tell it as it is. That does not mean that we make personal attacks on management or players.
Thought Mullane was honest enough on the Independent. The system most certainly broke down. Still think there is a kick in this team but talk of Waterford Hurling being 2/3 years away is annoying. How good will Clare or Limerick or half dozen other counties be by then. We shouldn't expect lads who are in School or just out of school to bale us out. Despite all the injuries there is still the likes of Ray Barry, Gavin O Brien, Ryan Donnelly, Shane McNulty who deserve more game time. Paudie Prendergast and Shane Fives should be promoted up the pecking order and given more promenent roles. There are options and there is a future and its in a months time!0 -
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For those who can bear it, the Waterford v Cork game may be viewed for another seven days at the following link:
http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10291154/
Poor visual quality on full screen but okay on reduced screen.0
This discussion has been closed.
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