Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

KevIRL

Only on phone and have more thoughts. But was particularly good to see shane walsh and Jake Dillon back playing well today.

Winners of antrim/Offaly in the next round would be a lovely draw

Mountainlad

donnem33 wrote: »

they will have to overcome galway first before even wondering about that!!!!!!

Not really, we are allowed wonder where we would play other teams. Given last year was a double header in Thurles I think the GAA would like to do the same this year but obviously can't be the same venue though if Tipp qualify. Nobody here suggesting Galway are going to lose next Saturday.

skaface

Probably one of the worst game of hurling I've ever been to..
Waterford were bad and Laois were worse.
If you were to show an U14 team how NOT to play, they should give them a DVD
of this game..
Never heard so many supporters giving out during and after the match in a match we
actually won by 10 points.. Says it all really.
God help us if we draw the winners of Tipp or Galway in the next round
with the system we are playing at the moment..

donnem33

Mountainlad wrote: »

Not really, we are allowed wonder where we would play other teams. Given last year was a double header in Thurles I think the GAA would like to do the same this year but obviously can't be the same venue though if Tipp qualify. Nobody here suggesting Galway are going to lose next Saturday.

PTH2009 was wondering if waterford would play tipp in thurles. I was just pointing out that tipp will have to beat galway next sat first before that would even come into consideration!!!

Mountainlad

donnem33 wrote: »

PTH2009 was wondering if waterford would play tipp in thurles. I was just pointing out that tipp will have to beat galway next sat first before that would even come into consideration!!!

That would probably be in response to the question I asked, which was based on it not being in Thurles should we play Tipp.

donnem33

Mountainlad wrote: »

That would probably be in response to the question I asked, which was based on it not being in Thurles should we play Tipp.

fair enough..apologies

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

That would probably be in response to the question I asked, which was based on it not being in Thurles should we play Tipp.

Ah lads will ye stop.....

Anyone else think the taking off of Donnelly after 20 mins was shocking form? Fair enough he hadnt got into the game yet but in fairness who had? Management obviously trusted him enough to start him so why not at least give him til half time? What was mcgrath trying to prove? Hes not Cody and we are not kk. Basically it showed a lack of balls that he wasnt prepared to stand by his decision to back the young lad. Truth is if that was brian o'sullivan or any of the rest of the prized dls class of 07 or 08' they wouldnt have been hauled off and I challenge anyone that dosent agree to pull me up on that... It may have only been a small call in some peoples eyes but it speaks volumes for about this management for me. If you dont have confidence in him why start him?
As well as the lads confidence going to be shot it would also have been a humiliating experience for him on his big day in front of the home crowd with friends, family etc watching on.

cul beag

robopaddy wrote: »

Ah lads will ye stop.....

Anyone else think the taking off of Donnelly after 20 mins was shocking form? Fair enough he hadnt got into the game yet but in fairness who had? Management obviously trusted him enough to start him so why not at least give him til half time? What was mcgrath trying to prove? Hes not Cody and we are not kk. Basically it showed a lack of balls that he wasnt prepared to stand by his decision to back the young lad. Truth is if that was brian o'sullivan or any of the rest of the prized dls class of 07 or 08' they wouldnt have been hauled off and I challenge anyone that dosent agree to pull me up on that... It may have only been a small call in some peoples eyes but it speaks volumes for about this management for me. If you dont have confidence in him why start him?
As well as the lads confidence going to be shot it would also have been a humiliating experience for him on his big day in front of the home crowd with friends, family etc watching on.

Said the same in an earlier post tonight it was a disgrace. Some players have the luxury of knowing they won't be touched unless,like tonight when the game was well won they'll be rested to give the fringe players a run. Others that are chosen to start will always be looking over there shoulder as they know if the first few balls go against them they're on borrowed time. Its a disgrace,and as you said if your not from the DLS college dream dream or you haven't played under McGrath at club level your a second class citizen on the panel. Obviously big Dan and the rest of the selectors can see this and are powerless to do anything,or else they're just thick stupid but I'm confident in thinking its the first option is the problem.

3ships

Didn't know why Ryan Donnelly was taken off if not an injury its hardly because the game was in doubt thought we were on top by then after an inauspicious start. Wouldn't have made that change myself, why not give him a chance to get into the game considering he didn't play since Ennis. For perspective, Austin Gleeson only came in since then. Its been a while, if you where injured for that long you would expect better surely.

I'm still not buying the DLS conspiracy line tho.Starting today you had 3 from the DLS 07/08 team and also 3 from 2013 Dungarvan Colleges. I was happy enough with the starting selection. I know BOS got plenty of opportunity but he was played out of position in the Derek McGrath master plan. I think BOS is a grand corner forward but within that system he couldn't be taken off cause that's an admission of failure on the manager not BOS if that makes sense. Davy Fitz and Michael Ryan started their Championship year with BOS so its not just Derek McGrath, similarly SOS has been a mainstay with Waterford for years and an average performance against an incrediblely strong Cork midfield the last day shouldn't deter anybody. He was not great in first half but I thought he really showed up well 2nd especially during the mini Laois revival.

The fact is the panel is strong and not everyone can be accomodated. I could not say now that there is much I would change personnel wise for the next day. Jamie Barron in the corner if fit, Paudie Prender Wing back if Connors fit, a member of the Fives family (the 2 of em are great!!) going to midfield, maybe SOS wing forward. The team is taking some shape, whether they are good enough to do what no Waterford team has done since before JFK was president, I do not know.
However, just like JFK and DLS I'm not buying the conspiracy theories.

For the record for those who didn't catch programme

16 IGGY
18 Barry C
19 Shane McNulty
20 Gavin O Brien - 2 great scores (closer to goal than the engine room for me)
21 Ritchie Foley
22 Martin O Neill
23 Seamus
24 Nagle
25 Molumphy
26 Barry

Not on programme but on bench
28 Brian O Halloran

maybe Donie Breathnach at 27 not sure if Barry 26 available

Hamstrings59

Serious agenda here with our management, same people wouldn't have had a bad word said about Scully last year. Have faith, get behind the management and players ffs

Deise Doodler

Hamstrings59 wrote: »

Serious agenda here with our management, same people wouldn't have had a bad word said about Scully last year. Have faith, get behind the management and players ffs

Think its past agenda at this point, I for one was happy with appointment at start of year but have been shown little by management to date, no issue with the players ,think their are being stifled with tactics

JeffKenna

Hamstrings59 wrote: »

Serious agenda here with our management, same people wouldn't have had a bad word said about Scully last year. Have faith, get behind the management and players ffs

To be honest I've come to the conclusion that the only chance we have of being sucessful is with an outside manager. Too much agenda on both sides. Granted Davy didn't work out but realistically our breakthrough only happened because of Cork managers. Would we have had the same success with internal managers...I'm not so sure.

All we need now is some money lol!

Ropaire

Hamstrings59 wrote: »

Serious agenda here with our management, same people wouldn't have had a bad word said about Scully last year. Have faith, get behind the management and players ffs

I heard this crap from alot of the soccer crowd about Trappatoni when he was pickin his favourites and saddling an archaic, negative system on players who couldn't adapt to it, regardless if we were playing Andorra or Brazil.

I dont care who is in charge as long as the team plays with some ambition and the line shows some nous, thats not happening and it hasnt happened in any game. We used to play champagne hurling and try and win shootouts and it was thrilling to watch, skully kept us threading water and no more but at least we were conpetitive. What we're doing now is not only pure dour and negative, its also obviously not working as we've won no game of signicance against a top side and we're shipping cricket scores.

Mountainlad

Hamstrings59 wrote: »

Serious agenda here with our management, same people wouldn't have had a bad word said about Scully last year. Have faith, get behind the management and players ffs

Sorry bud, you can't talk about agenda when you are the only one who has mentioned Michael Ryan since last night.

No point talking about him hes not coming back, for better or worse. You would ne concerned that Laois were only 6 down at one point yesterday despite only one team really hurling up to that point. On the other hand, have been hearing how well Laois are being trained so would bode well for our own preparation. But I think the way we are playing does seem to have serious limitation.

letowski

Good to see Brian O'Halloran on the extended panel. He's a quality hurler, just being blighted by injuries.

Ray Barry seems to have fallen completely out of favour. I would suggest that there wouldn't be a whole lot really between himself, Donnelly, Dunford, O'Brien.

Orizio

Dunford is definitely the best prospect of that lot.

HillFarmer

Anyone know when the draw for round 2 of the qualifiers is, next Sunday?

Cheers

hurler on de ditch

robopaddy wrote: »

Ah lads will ye stop.....

Anyone else think the taking off of Donnelly after 20 mins was shocking form? Fair enough he hadnt got into the game yet but in fairness who had? Management obviously trusted him enough to start him soe why not at least give him til half time? What was mcgrath trying to prove? Hes not Cody and we are not kk. Basically it showed a lack of balls that he wasnt prepared to stand by his decision to back the young lad. Truth is if that was brian o'sullivan or any of the rest of the prized dls class of 07 or 08' they wouldnt have been hauled off and I challenge anyone that dosent agree to pull me up on that... It may have only been a small call in some peoples eyes but it speaks volumes for about this management for me. If you dont have confidence in him why start him?
As well as the lads confidence going to be shot it would also have been a humiliating experience for him on his big day in front of the home crowd with friends, family etc watching on.

its the real world I'm sure if will get over it

Motivator

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

its the real world I'm sure if will get over it

Considering how was completely shafted by the management over an incident for which he was dropped off the senior panel, I think what happened last night may have an affect on him. He's only a kid & last night was his chance to prove himself. He wasn't given much of one by McGrath & I fully expect McGrath not to give him another one. Shocking bad form from McGrath but hardly surprising from him.

deise blue

Ropaire wrote: »

I heard this crap from alot of the soccer crowd about Trappatoni when he was pickin his favourites and saddling an archaic, negative system on players who couldn't adapt to it, regardless if we were playing Andorra or Brazil.

I dont care who is in charge as long as the team plays with some ambition and the line shows some nous, thats not happening and it hasnt happened in any game. We used to play champagne hurling and try and win shootouts and it was thrilling to watch, skully kept us threading water and no more but at least we were conpetitive. What we're doing now is not only pure dour and negative, its also obviously not working as we've won no game of signicance against a top side and we're shipping cricket scores.

As part of " the soccer crowd " , may I point out that it was purely due to the pragmatic approach of Trap that we achieved qualification for Euro 2012 - a huge achievement given the paucity of our panel.

Perhaps Mr. McGrath feels that such a pragmatic approach is currently Waterford's best plan ?

Ropaire

deise blue wrote: »

As part of " the soccer crowd " , may I point out that it was purely due to the pragmatic approach of Trap that we achieved qualification for Euro 2012 - a huge achievement given the paucity of our panel.

Perhaps Mr. McGrath feels that such a pragmatic approach is currently Waterford's best plan ?

Probably, but Trap never strayed from the same tactics regardless of the hidings we took later in his reign. It did work very well against the lesser lights before being horribly exposed once we reached the finals, i cant even say mcgraths tactics are working against the lesser teams though. We should have slaughtered Laois yesterday, but with 20 mins to go we had totally retreated in fear of a 10 point lead.

cul beag

letowski wrote: »

Good to see Brian O'Halloran on the extended panel. He's a quality hurler, just being blighted by injuries.

Ray Barry seems to have fallen completely out of favour. I would suggest that there wouldn't be a whole lot really between himself, Donnelly, Dunford, O'Brien.

Barry,Barron and Shan all out for last nights game through injury. Any of those names mentioned have never had an extended run in the team so its hard to rate one above the other. Donie Breathnach is another. With the exception of Maurice any of those lads are probably going to be making up the squad for the rest of the yr.

deise blue

Ropaire wrote: »

Probably, but Trap never strayed from the same tactics regardless of the hidings we took later in his reign. It did work very well against the lesser lights before being horribly exposed once we reached the finals, i cant even say mcgraths tactics are working against the lesser teams though. We should have slaughtered Laois yesterday, but with 20 mins to go we had totally retreated in fear of a 10 point lead.

No point in killing yourself when you are 10 points ahead against a markedly inferior side - 10 points ahead with 20 minutes to go & 10 points ahead at the end , pragmatism at it's best !

Ropaire

deise blue wrote: »

No point in killing yourself when you are 10 points ahead against a markedly inferior side - 10 points ahead with 20 minutes to go & 10 points ahead at the end , pragmatism at it's best !

I'd prefer to have seen some much needed shooting practice, Gleeson missed three in a row and was subbed off. Kilkenny lost a 10 point lead not that long ago, only way to be sure in hurling is to bury a team.

PTH2009

i imagine if we are playing Tipp it will be a standalone fixture in Nowlan Park, Portloaise or Limerick

If its Galway, Wexford,Clare or Offaly it will probly be a double header in Thurles like last year

Hopefully we get a good coverage tonight on the sunday game but with so many matches that were on this weekend i imagine we will get about 2 to 3 mins.

dzilla

Time to wrap up the footballers and stick all the resources into the hurlers for the future

KevIRL

Back in front of a keyboard again. There's a large degree of 'no win situation' about these games as has been evidenced by thoughts and opinions I've heard elsewhere and read on here. But in terms of the result alone if anyone had offered us a 10 point win beforehand we'd have taken it, if someone had offered it ten minutes into the game we'd have snapped their hand off, its important to remember that imo.

The performance wasnt perfect indeed, but how often have we ever gotten it 'perfect' in the qualifiers against one of the so called weaker counties? Twice maybe, v Dublin in '05 and v Antrim in '08. Even if we did dish out a hammering here what would it have shown us? This Laois team were quietly fancied by some to run us close and it looked even worse when he had that nightmare start. However it was encouraging to see no sign of panic and the team grimly stuck to its task gamely.

A big point of dissension here was the substitution of Ryan Donnelly, I do agree that it was harsh on the chap, he had done little wrong, but the way I read it was management thinking we needed a big man in around the box. The substitution happened in the 31st minute, not the 20th minute as reported by some here, and if my memory serves me we were only 4 points up at this stage and the game was far from secure. That said its a pity they didnt give him till half time at least, and I do hope he's been spoken to and reasons for the change explained and genuine hope given to him for the next day

To the positives, the entire back unit again was good, some the players who havent performed well this year stepped it up yesterday - Kevin Moran, Shane O Sullivan (2nd half especially), Jake Dillon, Shane Walsh. Colin Dunford is an exciting prospect, love watching him run at defenders. Paudie Mahony wasnt his usual 90%-100% free taking accuracy but was good in play around the field. I was a bit concerned about how Austin Gleeson drifted out of the game for large chunks, and some of Soky's puck outs again left a bit to be desired (maybe he was hating his jersey as much as I was!)

So to the next round of the qualifiers, 6 teams left and 5 possible opponents. None of the remaining teams have played each other so it will be an open draw Monday week with nuetral venues. Personally I'd prefer to get Offaly, no disrespect to them but we are clearly very much still a work in progress and would be good to hopefully get another match (and win) with a chance to continue the WIP and keep building confidence. I know some will think its better to get a stronger test but my line of thinking is that the stronger test will come so why try get it earlier, the longer we hurl each summer and the more games a lot of these young lads get the better in the long term

tomwaterford

Hamstrings59 wrote: »

Serious agenda here with our management, same people wouldn't have had a bad word said about Scully last year. Have faith, get behind the management and players ffs

no agenda....results/performances speak for themselves

do you believe the results/performances achieved by Waterford this year to be good enough???
do you believe the team is going forwards or backwards in terms of results/performances.....
I wouldn't mind the results as much if the performances were good enough..

jive

dzilla wrote: »

Time to wrap up the footballers and stick all the resources into the hurlers for the future

Yeah cause money is pumped into the football as things stand :rolleyes:

dzilla

jive wrote: »

Yeah cause money is pumped into the football as things stand :rolleyes:

Carew coming down here for free is he?