Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Professey Chin

STIG83 wrote: »

Clare or Wexford it is so, and we will go in as Underdogs which suits us.

This has to stop. Genuinely
Not a dig at you STIG but in general this entire underdog thing needs to be burned at the stake. It does nobody any favours.

jacko1

cul beag wrote: »

Clare play on the Wens we play on the Thurs. By all accounts the u21 team aren't going well at all so we could be having a quiet summer unless the minors can come up with something.

bu this is the u21 team comprising jake and others from the 2011 minor team tha made the all ire semi and last years minor team

On paper it should be our best ever u21 team

only 9/2 with paddy power to be all ireland champions

hardybuck

I suppose the fact of the matter is that we'll probably go into the game as underdogs in any event. I'd much rather go in as favourites as that would mean we're at a better level than we are currently!

Surprised that the U21 fixture is on a Thurs night. Even if that was moved forward to the Wed night it would be a bonus. How many have we involved in both fixtures?

STIG83

Professey Chin wrote: »

This has to stop. Genuinely
Not a dig at you STIG but in general this entire underdog thing needs to be burned at the stake. It does nobody any favours.

Was only going by how we are for big games that nobody gives us a chance.
We were wrote off in 02 for the Munster final and also the 04 Munster final and the 08 AI semi final. The fact Tipp had seats on trains booked for the final too.

JeffKenna

STIG83 wrote: »

Was only going by how we are for big games that nobody gives us a chance.
We were wrote off in 02 for the Munster final and also the 04 Munster final and the 08 AI semi final. The fact Tipp had seats on trains booked for the final too.

And look at games where we were favourite going in and that tag didn't suit us...limerick in 2007 immediately springs to mind.

STIG83

JeffKenna wrote: »

And look at games where we were favourite going in and that tag didn't suit us...limerick in 2007 immediately springs to mind.

Favourites tag never suited waterford anyway.
Limerick in 2007 shows that this 6 week break goes against teams now and again.

JeffKenna

STIG83 wrote: »

Favourites tag never suited waterford anyway.
Limerick in 2007 shows that this 6 week break goes against teams now and again.

Ah no Limerick was the fact we played 3 games in a row.
It was against Kilkenny in 04 that was our excuse!

STIG83

JeffKenna wrote: »

Ah no Limerick was the fact we played 3 games in a row.
It was against Kilkenny in 04 that was our excuse!

Was going to mention 04.
02 was another one too against Clare.

robopaddy

Professey Chin wrote: »

This has to stop. Genuinely
Not a dig at you STIG but in general this entire underdog thing needs to be burned at the stake. It does nobody any favours.

How can we be anything else other than underdogs the way we've played this year

Professey Chin

robopaddy wrote: »

How can we be anything else other than underdogs the way we've played this year

Its more a case of people being happy with the underdogs tag and that it suits us more then being favourites does. We have a good chance of playing Wexford and some are happy to put them as being favourites. Wexford.
We should be striving to improve and go in as favourites. No team has ever had a period of success thinking that way and we won't either unless we get over it. If you want to be the best then you have to start seeing yourself as the best, not hoping youll be underestimated.

bruschi

robopaddy wrote: »

How can we be anything else other than underdogs the way we've played this year

IF* you are playing Wexford, do you still think you would be underdogs?

STIG83

I'll get to watch the second AI semi in Spain on the 17th August. Was having look at fixture list on the Indo.
When the second round qualifiers are done how is it decided who plays who in the quarters?

Reading about Dublin yesterday I not buying into they are a bad team, i know their game plan went belly up, their defending was very good i thought, they kept KK at bay from scoring goals.
And also I not believing that KK will win the AI either.Could see them getting caught out.
If Tipp meet them they will have a good crack at them and not going to let a another defeat by KK happen again.

JeffKenna

bruschi wrote: »

IF* you are playing Wexford, do you still think you would be underdogs?

Yes, they would have dethroned the all ireland champions to get to that stage of the championship. We will have beaten Laois.

robopaddy

bruschi wrote: »

IF* you are playing Wexford, do you still think you would be underdogs?

If they end up beating Clare the AI champs over 2 games they would have to be considered a serious proposition. So if we would be still faves then it wouldn't be by very much.

I've rated wexford all the year as a team capable of causing a big shock this summer. Maybe Saturday was their big chance. But their definetly not as far behind us as people here have been making ou

KevIRL

Think its a draw stig. Although not sure if teams that have met already are kept apart if possible at QF stage.

For the semi final I believe it is Leinster champs v winner of QF containing munster runner up and vice versa

blue note

bruschi wrote: »

IF* you are playing Wexford, do you still think you would be underdogs?

Probably not underdogs, but everyone would be tipping Wexford to cause an upset. In a similar way to Laois who loads of people tipped to beat us (including one of the big papers, was it the Indo?), people will say that Waterford are favourites, but they fancy Wexford to do it.

Obviously Wexford are a few steps up from Laois and very close to Waterford in standard in reality. I'd fancy us against them, but I wouldn't be bullish about it.

STIG83

blue note wrote: »

Probably not underdogs, but everyone would be tipping Wexford to cause an upset. In a similar way to Laois who loads of people tipped to beat us (including one of the big papers, was it the Indo?), people will say that Waterford are favourites, but they fancy Wexford to do it.

Obviously Wexford are a few steps up from Laois and very close to Waterford in standard in reality. I'd fancy us against them, but I wouldn't be bullish about it.

I only saw bits of Wexford and Clare the other night but was surprised that Wexford were able to put it up to them, I thought Clare would bury them, have no idea what is going on with Clare this year. But goes to show Wexford are no pushovers.
Second year syndrome maybe for Clare?

Giveitfong

The Under 21 championship has really been screwed up by the advent of the qualifier system. On paper Waterford have a really strong Under 21 team this year with no less than ten of the senior panel under 21 and most of them real contenders for places on the first team. The following is the list and of these, Shane McNulty (who has been named in the match day 26 for all championship games this year) is the only one who has not played senior championship for Waterford:

Colin Dunford, Tadhg Bourke, Shane McNulty, Ray Barry, Gavin O’Brien, Donie Breathnach, Austin Gleeson, Jake Dillon, Jamie Barron, Ryan Donnelly

A few years ago Waterford again had a lot of under 21 players on the senior panel but had to play Cork three or four days before a Munster championship match (Cork, conveniently, had played their senior championship match the previous Sunday). The only Waterford senior player who made an effort on the night was Shane Fives and Waterford got hammered.

It would be a pity if the same happened to Waterford next week as the strength of the panel and the fact that they have a home game against Cork gives them a great chance of getting to the Munster final, with the Munster winners playing Antrim in the All-Ireland semi-final. The least the County Board should do is to get the match brought back to Wednesday night. I presume the reason it was fixed for Thurles was to facilitate coverage by TG4, with the other semi-final (Clare v Tipperary) also being televised on Wednesday.

Waterford have been the victims of a real double whammy here - first the Clare/Wexford game ending in a draw and then Waterford getting drawn against the replay winners. Wexford are even more affected, as they play the Leinster under 21 final next Wednesday, just four days ahead of the replay against Clare. I don't know why the Leinster final is being played so early, as the Munster under 21 final isn't being played until July 30. Of course if Clare beat Wexford in the replay, they will also be affected, with their under 21s playing the Wednesday before they would be playing Waterford.

The Clare/Wexford draw and replay also means that, if Waterford were to beat the winners of the replay, they would have only one week to prepare for the Quarter Final on July 27.

Quite a congested fixture list! From my own point of view, I would like to see the under 21s going all out against Cork next week, but I can't see that happening.

hardybuck

Giveitfong wrote: »

The Under 21 championship has really been screwed up by the advent of the qualifier system.

Did we have particularly well organised U21 Championship before the qualifier system? I remember it as a competition as it is today, where many teams got just one game a year in.

Mountainlad

Heard the Co Board are looking to get the game postponed.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

Heard the Co Board are looking to get the game postponed.

Their best bet would be to get it brought forward a day to the same night Clare are playing.

Giveitfong

While accepting that (with a couple of major exceptions) Clare were poor last Saturday, Wexford still gave a terrific display. Apart from a 15-minute spell in the first half, I thought they were the dominant team throughout and, with a bit more steadiness and better decision-making, they would have won by ten points. While you had to have admiration for the frame of mind which saw them going for goals at every opportunity (and they created loads of them), if they had tapped a few of the missed goal chances over the bar they would have won comfortably. On top of that, the poor shooting which possibly cost them the game against Dublin afflicted them again in this game.

On the basis of this display, Wexford are now once again a significant hurling force and Liam Dunne deserves great credit for the way he has built up the team over the last couple of years, despite very little in the way of underage success. One couldn't help comparing this with the way things are going with Waterford. While Wexford did play an extra defender, at least they used an actual defender for this purpose, rather than a withdrawn corner forward who knows nothing about defending.

On top of that, they always had a target man at the edge of the square and a second player in the full forward line to accompany him. However, what they really brought to the game was great positivity as they tore into Clare right from the start and, indeed, tore them apart at times. They could easily have finished with a score of 5-24 in normal time. And they did this playing a lot of measured hurling (which unfortunately seemed to desert them with the goalposts in sight). I still reckon that if Waterford had adopted the same attitude to Clare in Walsh Park last summer, we would now be defending All-Ireland Under 21 champions.

I was saying to myself after the game wouldn't it be nice if we had someone like Liam Dunne in charge of developing Waterford's current crop of underage talent. I also see that, in today's Irish Independent, John Mullane was giving great credit to Gerry Fitzpatrick for the great physical condition and mental orientation which Wexford showed on Saturday.

As regards the other two weekend games, I thought that Tipperary always showed the greater urgency and application against Galway, and it was only Jonathan Glynn's destruction of Padraig Maher that was keeping Galway in the game. The combination of moving Maher to the halfback line and the injury to Iarlaith Tannian (Galway's best player), along with Joe Canning's second half no-show, shifted the advantage firmly in favour of the home team in the final quarter. It was also a rare occasion where Seamus Callanan made a decisive contribution to a game that was in the balance.

Dublin were psychologically not up for the game against Kilkenny. Their first touch was poor, they foostered and passed when they needed to be more positivbe and dynamic, they waited for balls to come to them rather than going to meet them, and when they did have possession they were too slow and laboured in getting rid of it. Kilkenny were the opposite in all cases. The occasion was too much for Conal Keaney who was completely at odds with himself, while Michael Carton, who has been possibly their best player all year, made little enough impression.

That said, there was a period in the middle of the second half when they did enjoy ten minutes of dominance in the middle third and were close enough to Kilkenny to make something of it. If they had converted one of their goal chances, the game could have had a different outcome, despite all Kilkenny's dominance. When they didn't their heads dropped, allowing Kilkenny to pull away.

letowski

I think it will be tricky to get Clare's and Waterford's u21 matches postponed. The fixture list is very congested this month.

Deisegodeo

I heard Dan on the radio saying that the U21 game should be rescheduled. Apparently Waterford have officially requested the game to be moved. This should be a no-brainer, how can Waterford, with loads of U21 players, be expected to play U21 on Thursday and then senior on Saturday.

Going on previous issues, I wouldnt be surprised if this ridiculous situation did in fact transpire. I assume the qualifier is down for TV so thats not going to be changed. As Cork have the Munster senior final this Sunday, I doubt they will agree to the U21 game being changed to the Wednesday. Will the Munster Council rule in favour of Waterford? Its going to be interesting to see how this is resolved.

STIG83

letowski wrote: »

I think it will be tricky to get Clare's and Waterford's u21 matches postponed. The fixture list is very congested this month.

After the Brian O Sullivan incident wouldn't surprise me if the request to postpone the U21 went on deaf ears by the GAA.

cleaboy boy

As per GAA.ie the fixture for Waterford V Clare/Wexford is definitely fixed for Saturday 19th July, if it's VS Clare the venue is Thurles and if it's VS Wexford the venue is Nowlan Park.
No budging on the senior match, it'll be nteresting to see how the under 21 appeal works out now!

letowski

Deisegodeo wrote: »

I heard Dan on the radio saying that the U21 game should be rescheduled. Apparently Waterford have officially requested the game to be moved. This should be a no-brainer, how can Waterford, with loads of U21 players, be expected to play U21 on Thursday and then senior on Saturday.

Going on previous issues, I wouldnt be surprised if this ridiculous situation did in fact transpire. I assume the qualifier is down for TV so thats not going to be changed. As Cork have the Munster senior final this Sunday, I doubt they will agree to the U21 game being changed to the Wednesday. Will the Munster Council rule in favour of Waterford? Its going to be interesting to see how this is resolved.

I think the problem is, if the match gets moved back a week, it doesn't fix the problem, it just means the game gets played the same week before the Senior Quarter Final.

Move the u21 matches 2 weeks and you are risking playing the Munster u21 final, the same week as the All Ireland semi. That assumes if we get that far (big if!).

I have to agree, playing the match on Thursday is a joke though, maybe it might be better if it was played on the Tuesday? TG4 will have a say id expect. At least Clare and Waterford are in the same boat, as both have a large contigent of u21s on the senior panels.

Maybe Clare should just get knocked out altogether!

Deisegodeo

letowski wrote: »

I think the problem is, if the match gets moved back a week, it doesn't fix the problem, it just means the game gets played the same week before the Senior Quarter Final.

Move the u21 matches 2 weeks and you are risking playing the Munster u21 final, the same week as the All Ireland semi. That assumes if we get that far (big if!).

I have to agree, playing the match on Thursday is a joke though, maybe it might be better if it was played on the Tuesday? TG4 will have a say id expect. At least Clare and Waterford are in the same boat, as both have a large contigent of u21s on the senior panels.

Maybe Clare should just get knocked out altogether!

Yeah the fixture list is facing a bit of a pile up alright. I doubt Cork would agree to playing the Wednesday, let alone the Tuesday, as they have players involved in the senior Munster final this Sunday.

Just seems ridiculous that this situation is allowed to happen year after year. Waterford had something like 7 or 8 weeks between the end of the league and the start of the championship. Now players are expected to play 2 championship games in 3 days between U21 and senior. Hopefully common sense will prevail.

bruschi

blue note wrote: »

Probably not underdogs, but everyone would be tipping Wexford to cause an upset. In a similar way to Laois who loads of people tipped to beat us (including one of the big papers, was it the Indo?), people will say that Waterford are favourites, but they fancy Wexford to do it.

Obviously Wexford are a few steps up from Laois and very close to Waterford in standard in reality. I'd fancy us against them, but I wouldn't be bullish about it.

this is where I'd see it too. IF* (and I'm keeping that asterisk there as it is a very big if) we beat Clare, Waterford should, and would still be favorites. As I said to Mountainlad in another thread, one swallow doesnt make a summer, nor does one game mean over a decade of crap has been eradicated with one game. Yes, we played excellently against Clare, but that performance has not been seen in that Wexford team yet. They need to follow it up with consistency before they can be considered as being back up there with the rest again. I'd like to have a crack off Waterford. Just after being relegated, a poor loss to Cork, its an ideal time to try get the win. But it would be another shock, not an expected win at all.

Its a GAA thing, but I dont understand why people rush to declare themselves underdogs and the opposition favorites. Doesnt make sense to me.

However, I dont think we will get a chance to play Waterford. I dont see us catching Clare on the hop like we did in the first 20 minutes again. Be great if we did, and it would be a fantastic game and atmosphere in Nowlan park, memories of a great Saturday evening in 2003 flooding back!

PTH2009

I cant see us being strong enough in the forwards beating Clare or Wexford.

In recent times both Thurles and Nowlan Park have been bad stadiums for us

This match could be Bricks and Seamus Prendergasts last game for Waterford.