Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

pmy.murphy

robopaddy wrote: »

The kk Waterford rivalry exists mainly in Waterford city and maybe a bit up around portlaw where piltown is only across the bridge. Move up west and cork is the main rivals all over then you have the tipp border areas like Carrick and clonmel where people would rather see anyone else win but tipp . Once you move outside the city area people are not too bothered about kk so don't be generalizing everyone.

If I'm not mistaken fogarty is from up north Kilkenny I really can't see his head on a plate if he was to get involved with Waterford. Usually your posts are quite reasonable but that's just nonsense talk out of you there.

I wasnt generalising anyone i just mentioned the rivalry ok maybe I said it a bit bluntly and maybe it comes across that way, I know more than anyone the extent of the rivalry as I am regularly in the city and have worked there before and currently attend college there too, outside of the city its not so bad. It is generally around the borders where the majority of the rivalry like in the city and portlaw whilst on the kilkenny side you would have the likes of piltown as you mentioned, mooncoin, kilmacow, glenmore, mullinavat and these places which are all within 10 minutes of the city. I was merely attempting to explain what citykat was getting at which I would agree with his statement to a certain extent although I obviously did a fairly poor job of that but especially around the places mentioned no county likes losing to a neighbour and kk and waterford are no different. Tbh I dont know how I could explain it but certainly around the south of kilkenny it wouldnt down well because of the rivalry

pmy.murphy

tomwaterford wrote: »

after much googling...as you can tell im very busy:cool:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/deise-bids-farewell-to-loyal-servant-mansfield-225148.html


A few years after the U21 triumph, he again took charge following the sensational defeat by Kerry in Walsh Park in the 1993 championship (when Kilkenny stalwart George Leahy was manager).

So you were right after all, I did a lot of googling myself too but couldnt seem to find anything. It was George Leahy a man who Ive had experience under his coaching maybe 10 years ago

tomwaterford

pmy.murphy wrote: »

I wasnt generalising anyone i just mentioned the rivalry ok maybe I said it a bit bluntly and maybe it comes across that way, I know more than anyone the extent of the rivalry as I am regularly in the city and have worked there before and currently attend college there too, outside of the city its not so bad. It is generally around the borders where the majority of the rivalry like in the city and portlaw whilst on the kilkenny side you would have the likes of piltown as you mentioned, mooncoin, kilmacow, glenmore, mullinavat and these places which are all within 10 minutes of the city. I was merely attempting to explain what citykat was getting at which I would agree with his statement to a certain extent although I obviously did a fairly poor job of that but especially around the places mentioned no county likes losing to a neighbour and kk and waterford are no different. Tbh I dont know how I could explain it but certainly around the south of kilkenny it wouldnt down well because of the rivalry

anything to with Waterford doing well deos not go down well in south Kilkenny....there are those in Waterford city who genuinely believe that the only reason the old n9 was never upgraded properly was a conspiracy against Waterford from the people of south kilkenny

pmy.murphy

tomwaterford wrote: »

anything to with Waterford doing well deos not go down well in south Kilkenny....there are those in Waterford city who genuinely believe that the only reason the old n9 was never upgraded properly was a conspiracy against Waterford from the people of south kilkenny

Id agree and in reverse in the city where kilkenny doing well doesnt go down a treat either......hahaha have to love these old conspiracy theories. Well I think we had a bigger conspiracy in mind than upgrading the old n9 and that was the M50

JeffKenna

tomwaterford wrote: »

after much googling...as you can tell im very busy:cool:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/deise-bids-farewell-to-loyal-servant-mansfield-225148.html


A few years after the U21 triumph, he again took charge following the sensational defeat by Kerry in Walsh Park in the 1993 championship (when Kilkenny stalwart George Leahy was manager).

Ah my bad! I actually had a google and couldn't find anything so you're better than i am!!!!

Cake Man

Fairly disappointing result with the minors, we seemed to be on top for 40 mins but just didn't have an answer when Limerick started to turn the screw. We couldn't win a ball or get a score at all in the last 15 mins and you knew when Limerick went ahead after reeling off 4 or 5 points in a row we just weren't going to come back.

Hard to know how we are fixed for the quarter final v Dublin, as deflated as the lads would be after tonight the extra game against arguably the best team in the competition will surely stand to us and bring us on a bit.
Didn't see Dublin in the Leinster minor final but from reading accounts and what was said on here they don't appear to be any better or worse than ourselves. Being in Thurles surely suits our lads a little but more aswell. I see it as 50/50 so I wouldn't be writing our obituary yet.

Real kick in the balls the last 6 days has been. Was thinking before the first Limerick game what a nightmare it would be if we were to lose all three games that week (minor, u21 and senior) and that's basically how it transpired. I never really thought we'd win all three but thought 2 out of 3 was likely.
So what's the Waterford Crystal and League fixture list for 2015......

Parishman

That was a tough week for the Deise. Hopefully the minors can regroup to put it up to the Dubs on Sunday

robopaddy

Didnt make the game tonight as Im out of the country but sounds like a spirited performance and that a bit of pride was restored in the Waterford jersey after an awful week, and Id just like to thank Derek Lyons and the lads for their efforts. This is a serious Limerick team who will take some stopping now and I refuse to believe that any other county will get as close to them as we have. Thats 4 Munster finals lost since we last won it in 09' but when you look at it 2 of them were against an exceptional Clare team and 2 against this Limerick team so weve been unlucky in that regard. From the bigger picture at least we are there consistently every year and of course came back and won the AI last year so no need to be too despondent. We have Dublin now on Sunday I think we can beat them as this team has shown in the past that they are serious fighters. I dont think we have reason to fear anyone else in the competition as outside of Limerick we are as strong as what is there.

Its been a tough year for Waterford hurling but watching our minors play with fearlessness and abandonment gives me hope for the future and the corner WILL turn for us Ive no doubt about that. Deise abu

STIG83

pmy.murphy wrote: »

It wouldnt go down too well in Kilkenny simple because of the rivalry, kilkenny hate losing to waterford and to have a kk man in charge would not go down well at all. Sure I remember a comment on here a few months ago the fact that a kk man captained WIT to the Fitzgibbon Cup, some people didnt like that either. Im sure most of yas know what im on about with relation to the rivalry both sides of the bridge and I think thats what citykat was trying to say. Theres a bit of niggle that goes on a lot of the time between both sides.

KK hate losing to Waterford? Not very often that happens from what I see. But why hate losing to Waterford?

The point I trying to put across is that a lot of teams are managed by outsiders.
Look at Waterford for example: Gerald McCarthy and Justin Mccarthy (both Cork men, then Davy Fitz came in(Clare Man), there seemed to be no problem with them been managers of Waterford by their own counties.
Limerick another example, had Justin McCarthy, John Allen and Donal O Grady as managers of them.
And didn't Ger Loughnane manage Galway?
I don't buy into that if a KK man came to manage Waterford that he would be lynched for it.
Maybe the only time I would see an issue if a KK man went to manage Tipp, I think there is way more rivalry with them than there is Waterford, as Tipp have managed to beat KK, something Waterford can't do unfortunately,

Pmy I'm not trying to start a Waterford bashing KK war. Cos we know who would lose that one.

If it ever did come to a KK man been in line to manage Waterford I would be happy to see it.

Ropaire

Fogarty could do what Davy Fitz did, come to waterford, do his apprenticeship and learn how not to manage a county team before going home and rectifying his mistakes. Unlike Davy i'd love to get Fogarty involved though.

Has an All Ireland ever been won with a manager from outside the county that won it? I'm struggling to think of one!

STIG83

Ropaire wrote: »

Fogarty could do what Davy Fitz did, come to waterford, do his apprenticeship and learn how not to manage a county team before going home and rectifying his mistakes. Unlike Davy i'd love to get Fogarty involved though.

Has an All Ireland ever been won with a manager from outside the county that won it? I'm struggling to think of one!

You having me thinking on that one!!

Ropaire

STIG83 wrote: »

You having me thinking on that one!!

Eamon Cregan with Offaly vs his own county is one anyway. There's surely more but thats all i can come up with.

Deise Hurler

Martin Fogarty is from Castlecomer, which is as far North Kilkenny as you could get. Knowing a few lads from up there, the opinions they hold about Waterford hurling being successful would be completely opposite to say someone from mooncoin, piltown, kilmacow or slieverue. I seen Fogarty at the match Saturday and have listened and seen him in action at coaching conferences. He is Excellent. Of course he wouldn't have been involved in Cody's set up for so long If he wasnt any good. If the job became vacant and he was interested then we could do a lot worse. I would imagine he would be interested but would need to be headhunted as I couldn't imagine him been all that interested in going through powerpoints and interviews like the previous appointment.

Waternut

I'd say Eamon Cregan isn't everyone's cup of tea down in Limerick after '94..

Pity about the minor tonight, thought they put up a great fight against a very strong Limerick team that probably had too much up front for us. Anyone know why McCarthy is still not being considered? I reckon he could have done a job on Morrissey at full back.

Deise Hurler

Ropaire wrote: »

Fogarty could do what Davy Fitz did, come to waterford, do his apprenticeship and learn how not to manage a county team before going home and rectifying his mistakes. Unlike Davy i'd love to get Fogarty involved though.

Has an All Ireland ever been won with a manager from outside the county that won it? I'm struggling to think of one!

Michael Bond with Offaly in 98 as well as Cregan. Pretty sure he was a Galway man.

dirkmeister

Ropaire wrote: »

Eamon Cregan with Offaly vs his own county is one anyway. There's surely more but thats all i can come up with.

Michael Bond is a Galway man I'm fairly sure.


Edit: Just beaten to it.

robopaddy

Deise Hurler wrote: »

Martin Fogarty is from Castlecomer, which is as far North Kilkenny as you could get. Knowing a few lads from up there, the opinions they hold about Waterford hurling being successful would be completely opposite to say someone from mooncoin, piltown, kilmacow or slieverue. I seen Fogarty at the match Saturday and have listened and seen him in action at coaching conferences. He is Excellent. Of course he wouldn't have been involved in Cody's set up for so long If he wasnt any good. If the job became vacant and he was interested then we could do a lot worse. I would imagine he would be interested but would need to be headhunted as I couldn't imagine him been all that interested in going through powerpoints and interviews like the previous appointment.

I beleive Fogartys name was mentioned last year by the managerial 'selection committee' in the early stages but apparently they got wind that he wouldnt be putting himself forward so he wasnt even approached in the end. He had just stepped aside as KK selector at that stage so maybe it was different circumstances for him then

pmy.murphy

STIG83 wrote: »

KK hate losing to Waterford? Not very often that happens from what I see. But why hate losing to Waterford?

The point I trying to put across is that a lot of teams are managed by outsiders.
Look at Waterford for example: Gerald McCarthy and Justin Mccarthy (both Cork men, then Davy Fitz came in(Clare Man), there seemed to be no problem with them been managers of Waterford by their own counties.
Limerick another example, had Justin McCarthy, John Allen and Donal O Grady as managers of them.
And didn't Ger Loughnane manage Galway?
I don't buy into that if a KK man came to manage Waterford that he would be lynched for it.
Maybe the only time I would see an issue if a KK man went to manage Tipp, I think there is way more rivalry with them than there is Waterford, as Tipp have managed to beat KK, something Waterford can't do unfortunately,

Pmy I'm not trying to start a Waterford bashing KK war. Cos we know who would lose that one.

If it ever did come to a KK man been in line to manage Waterford I would be happy to see it.

Well maybe this argument is being put across all wrongly and is rubbing people up the wrong way, what Im trying to say is about the intense rivalry that exists between Waterford city, portlaw these places and then across the bridge in places like Mooncoin, piltown, kilmacow etc. These people both waterford and kk would obviously hate losing to each other as you would imagine but further across the board in county waterford or further up the county in kilkenny the attitudes towards each other are a lot more relaxed. Also Im of the opinion that theres an attitude that exists almost a sense of cockiness if you like when it comes to playing waterford. I do feel a kk man in charge of waterford would be lynched in south kilkenny thats my personal opinion but certainly as a whole I agree with you and think it would be a whole lot worse if he went further across the border again over to Tipp to manage them. He would certainly be in the firing line then thats for sure cos the intense rivalry between Tipp and Kk exists the whole way through both counties.

True and Im not cutting down the idea of a team having a manager from outside the county and when you say it about 2 cork men being in charge of waterford perhaps you are correct along with Ger loughnane with Galway. Its probably only relevant with the big blockbuster rivalries we have in the game like the ones between Tipp, Cork and KK. I remember the civil war that went on in the County in 2002/2003 when Denis Byrne transferred from Kilkenny to Tipp, that did not go down well. He continued to play for his club Graigue Ballycallan who are right on the tipp border too.

No im not putting down waterford by any means myself either, i was just trying to develop on the point citykat made earlier. Personaly i think fogarty would do a great job by the way. As someone mentioned earlier he is from Castlecomer as far north of Kilkenny as you get, i have relatives from there and its very close to the Carlow/Laois borders

Alf Tupper

Ropaire wrote: »

Fogarty could do what Davy Fitz did, come to waterford, do his apprenticeship and learn how not to manage a county team before going home and rectifying his mistakes. Unlike Davy i'd love to get Fogarty involved though.

Has an All Ireland ever been won with a manager from outside the county that won it? I'm struggling to think of one!

Offaly won their first All Ireland in 1981, under Dermot Healy, a Kilkenny man.

robopaddy

Is the Dublin minor manager Pat Fanning one of the Waterford Fanning dynasty by any chance?

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=221053

Horseboxhead

For 40 -45 min last night it was heaven, sure we were leaking a few scores, but we were hurling a brand of hurling that was a joy to see, head up chest out strike fast and hard, but with intelligence, some beautiful scores, points by roche and p curran stand out as beauties[currans from a short limerick puck out was sublime], i was thinking jesus we really are getting it right underage if we are producing hurlers of the quality of the above, and hayden,gleeson,lyons,nolan, ah stop they can all hurl.
But , and it has to be said , on the night Limerick were better, casey, morrissey,lynch,La touch ?, now not only could them boys hurl but they hurled with an agression we rarely bring to any intercounty game at any level, we really are the gentle county.
But all is not lost we can regroup against an avarage to fair [but huge], Dublin side, that lack a bit of hurling, but that won't bother our boys because their not small or light just got a bit tired as limerick pushed on with 15 min to go, if we could have got a bit more of anything out of shane bennett[gave no cover to our centre back at all in the second half], and made gleeson at centre back look like brick v noel mcgrath,but thats the disicipline needed when you have to sacrifice your self for the team, and i felt he was not willing to do this,i would have removed him from midfield after 5 min of the second half, and i also was looking for more of cormac curran, he looks unfit, disinterested[and i know he's not], and because he is unfit his balance,his ability to win ball in the air,he can't leave the ground, his footwork is poor, and he has lost that agression that make's him a huge talent,as he is a lessor man without it, he has buckets of hurling, but i think he has peaked unless he reverts back to what was working last year, his fearless ability to win ball and tip points at his ease, maybe he is just warming up, i hope so, as he has too much to think he has it all done at 18, our goalkeeper is a class act, full back looked very good last night, Shane ryan worked like a dog and showed he has more than hard work to his game in the first half with some classy scores, and i thought all of the subs made a contribution, so i'm disappointed but less so than the seniors, and the piss poor,disorganised, excuse ridden U-21'S.
I think We will be seeing alot more of Gleeson[better facing tha ball all day], Roche [Class Class Class], P Curran[better than flynn was at 18,and at 18 flynn was a classy operator], and i think when young bennett gets his head right he is as good as the brother probably a bit less of an out an out finisher but reminds me of a frankie carroll of limerick at wing forward when frankie was hot he was hot, and is capable of hitting 4/5 points everyday from wing forward , and i like young lyons bite too wasted inside in the inside line, don't think we'll be seeing that again, also i think conor prunty will continue to produce good hurling this year, and will be a serious force next year when he decides he more than deserves to be there and stops hurling within himself, so bittersweet, but we are producing gems, but i do believe that all of the above have either filling out, or conditioning or growing to do yet, to match that ability, where as last night i thought Limerick players specially their top guys looked a lot more mature, and it will be interesting to see how much better they get, however that casey lad they had in the corner now he's one to watch, win's his own ball time and time again, he could have got both corner backs sent off, must have won about 6 frees scored 3 points, all gems.
Great game C'mon the deise, we'll take dublin.

Slobbery

JeffKenna wrote: »

Ah my bad! I actually had a google and couldn't find anything so you're better than i am!!!!

Peter Power was on the managment team in 1995 when Tipp hammered us out the gate in Cork,

It was the game the Queally got caught on Camera for his part in a schemozzle and was prevented from passing out with the guards a few weeks later

cul beag

Blaming the referee by Derek Lyons saying we were rode in an excuse really. On the face of it we were outplayed in the middle third for most of the second half. Would agree with horseboxhead about Shane Bennett he offered no cover whatsoever to Gleeson at centre back. That's a serious limerick team and we were still well in the game with 15 mins to go so all in far from lost. Would Cormac Curran benefit from some personal work on ladder racks to work on his feet? His speed of hurling seems slow at times but my god he has some ability if a few little things were sorted with him. Potentially he can have a hugh senior career but I think some ball alley work on an individual basis would help him enormously. We're crying out for men like him at u21 and senior level and as I said if a few little things were sorted out with him he could be a colossus for us as a centre forward or full forward.
No doubt Patrick Curran is pure class and you can see he's not fully fit. You can see from this team we'll get 4-5 potential senior players for the future. Our problem at the moment is these fellas with be strangled with tactics,like all the good youngsters since 09 that have come through and they're natural tendencies that got them to this stage of their hurling careers will be sacrificed for the good of the negative systems we employ at the moment.

Slobbery

Now that the dust has settled from 2014, must be one of the hardest years following the Deise and that is saying something.

The last player to have a debut season like Colin Dunford, Austin Gleeson or T de Burca for us was probably Noel Connors, these three lads have serious Futures and are a huge positive for us from the coming year.

Hopefully next year will see Stephen and Shane Bennett, Colm Roche, Patrick Curran as well as a few more have an impact or given a chance.

Division 1B will give us an opportunity to try out alot of these young guys in 2015

On top of that I hope a fully Fit Daragh Fives, Stephen Daniels and Jake Dillon can have more of an impact on the team (Daragh and Stephen may be new options at Centre and Full back respectively)

Hopefully we see an overhaul of how the U21 side is operated, surely this year will serve as a massive wake up call, the senior management should maybe take the U21, but they would need to be brave, as it opens them up to failing twice.

Slobbery

cul beag wrote: »

Blaming the referee by Derek Lyons saying we were rode in an excuse really. On the face of it we were outplayed in the middle third for most of the second half. Would agree with horseboxhead about Shane Bennett he offered no cover whatsoever to Gleeson at centre back. That's a serious limerick team and we were still well in the game with 15 mins to go so all in far from lost. Would Cormac Curran benefit from some personal work on ladder racks to work on his feet? His speed of hurling seems slow at times but my god he has some ability if a few little things were sorted with him. Potentially he can have a hugh senior career but I think some ball alley work on an individual basis would help him enormously. We're crying out for men like him at u21 and senior level and as I said if a few little things were sorted out with him he could be a colossus for us as a centre forward or full forward.
No doubt Patrick Curran is pure class and you can see he's not fully fit. You can see from this team we'll get 4-5 potential senior players for the future. Our problem at the moment is these fellas with be strangled with tactics,like all the good youngsters since 09 that have come through and they're natural tendencies that got them to this stage of their hurling careers will be sacrificed for the good of the negative systems we employ at the moment.

Will these young players be hampered by tactics though? last night was as tactical as any game so maybe younglads will be used to it but the time they get to senior, hurling is changing I guess, the days of you score three goals but we will score four goals may be gone for Waterford hurling.

but this may have also just been symptomatic of the first day, Five goals conceded and none last night, both teams went out not to leak goals

Mr Tibbs

robopaddy wrote: »

Is the Dublin minor manager Pat Fanning one of the Waterford Fanning dynasty by any chance?

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=221053

Yes he is a former Cork Road man and Pat Fanning the former GAA President was his father. He is living in Dublin for a good number of years now

Gavlor

Slobbery wrote: »

Now that the dust has settled from 2014, must be one of the hardest years following the Deise and that is saying something.

You obviously don't remember the 80's and most of the 90's?!!

At least we can see some talent coming through this time

willietherock

Speaking of KK men hating losing to Waterford. Have a look at the reaction to particular KK man at the final whistle of the defeat to Wexford at the 20 second mark. The fcuker never smiled as much at KK All Ireland wins.The cat has been well and truly let out of the bag, so to speak.

Slobbery

Gavlor wrote: »

You obviously don't remember the 80's and most of the 90's?!!

At least we can see some talent coming through this time

I actually do remember them, but we went to those games expecting nothing and would be happy with the moral victories.

The recent underage resurgence and the Minor last year made the last week just alot more depressing to me.

I guess we just had further to fall than in the 80's and 90's

dilinja1

willietherock wrote: »

Speaking of KK men hating losing to Waterford. Have a look at the reaction to particular KK man at the final whistle of the defeat to Wexford at the 20 second mark. The fcuker never smiled as much at KK All Ireland wins.The cat has been well and truly let out of the bag, so to speak.


ahh jesus lads of course Kilkenny do not like losing to Waterford - it is whats called a rivalry. Just like we would love to beat them in the championship and also hate to lose to them. Anyway Kilkenny have nothing to do with our current predicament!

One thing from our three defeats the past week is how we have faded in the second half - particularly in the last 15-20 minutes. Wexford were all over us in the senior game in the last quarter and considering they were playing their third game in 14 days is a damning indictment of the seniors fitness levels. Was not at the game last night but going by the reports on here we tired in the last quarter. U-21s last week were a no show against Cork even with the opposition reduced to 14 men. Who is leading the fitness training in all grades? Why is Gerry Fitz now in the Wexford camp?