Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

willietherock

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

ah will ya fcuk off ,he has enjoyed the moment and probably happy for the men from his own province ,he is probably one of the greatest men ever to grace the game ,When the word Legend is dished out to many people that fail in the game ,,,one man above all else deserves this accolade and that is Brian Cody,,,,far from a fcuker that you called him ,,,show some respect ,typical sad loser/supporter

You seriously need to relax and not take this internet business so seriously. My post was in jest, particularly poking fun at the notion being sprouted earlier that for some KK folk the idea of losing to Waterford is a hugely tramatic event. Anyone seeking offence when none was intended needs to calm down.

Slobbery

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

Waterford have the best underage structures in munster with a constant ability to produce good minor teams but the seem unable to get the under 21s right for some reason. There are no circumstances under which the under 21s should be getting a hiding.
That cork result could look fairly bad if clare hurl to their potential

How did Clare manage with so many U21 players on the senior panel? We should be using them as the model. We don't have a huge pick of players so maybe when they reach 19-21 they are being dragged in too many directions, put Clare have shown it can be done.

Another interesting point being made at the moment of the current Cork team is that even though they have had little underage intercounty success they have been the back bone of fitzgibbon successes recently and that is a major factor in there current success.

Recently we have recent fitzgibbon winners in Richie Foley, the two mahonys, Brain O Sullivan, Dara fives, jake Dillon, Gavin O brien, Stephen O Keefe, Gavin O brien, and possibly more besides that I can't think of so why doesn't the same apply to waterford?

I think that the clubs are not in fact getting enough credit for the underage players coming through also it is starting to become apparent that when players are leaving the secondary school system they are starting to fall off a cliff...

Basically I think it's time for the county board to up its game, when player development is being left to them alone at intercounty U21 level they are failing miserably. It's not fair that the highest level of hurling these guys can truly compete at is minor...

Something is going badly wrong here anyway, we are worse at U21 than we have ever been

willietherock

robopaddy wrote: »

Lads I think yell find willietherock was just havin a bit of banter puttin that up so put yere knickers back on

Thank Chr1st not everyone on here has had a humor bypass.

deiseach

willietherock wrote: »

You seriously need to relax and not take this internet business so seriously. My post was in jest, particularly poking fun at the notion being sprouted earlier that for some KK folk the idea of losing to Waterford is a hugely tramatic event. Anyone seeking offence when none was intended needs to calm down.

I'd say Brian Cody was called worse by Kilkenny folk over Charlie Carter. And by Charlie Carter!

robopaddy

Slobbery wrote: »

Another interesting point being made at the moment of the current Cork team is that even though they have had little underage intercounty success they have been the back bone of fitzgibbon successes recently and that is a major factor in there current success.

Recently we have recent fitzgibbon winners in Richie Foley, the two mahonys, Brain O Sullivan, Dara fives, jake Dillon, Gavin O brien, Stephen O Keefe, Gavin O brien, and possibly more besides that I can't think of so why doesn't the same apply to waterford?

Jesus don't mention the Fitzgibbon around here... That's only for mullockers and donkeys who are only good for rolling around in the winter muck. You've been warned

hurler on de ditch

willietherock wrote: »

You seriously need to relax and not take this internet business so seriously. My post was in jest, particularly poking fun at the notion being sprouted earlier that for some KK folk the idea of losing to Waterford is a hugely tramatic event. Anyone seeking offence when none was intended needs to calm down.

true, was out of me meds ,,,better now

hurler on de ditch

The blue blaa wrote: »

Why not get John Mullane involved he's currently involved with DLS minors for the 2nd yr in a row. Get himself and Someone like Big Dan involved with last years minor manager Sean power who came thru the development route it would be a major positive for the players havin lads with their experience involved

leave Dan and John achieve something at a managerial level first ,,,maybe Tony Forristal,Sonny Walsh,would be a good start,but i would like to see them successful at club level first ,we really have enough of people cutting their teeth with Waterford intercounty .enough amateurs now,,,

culbaire

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

leave Dan and John achieve something at a managerial level first ,,,maybe Tony Forristal,Sonny Walsh,would be a good start,but i would like to see them successful at club level first ,we really have enough of people cutting their teeth with Waterford intercounty .enough amateurs now,,,

An outside manager is needed if Waterford is is to get anywhere in senior hurling. No point in talking about Mullane or Shanahan . Derek Mcgrath is just not good enough. Interesting to read rubbish about 2015 in one of our local papers. Thankfully Paul Flynn called it as it was. It was pathetic to read excuses from Mullane trying to insulate Derek McGrath.

Slobbery

culbaire wrote: »

An outside manager is needed if Waterford is is to get anywhere in senior hurling. No point in talking about Mullane or Shanahan . Derek Mcgrath is just not good enough. Interesting to read rubbish about 2015 in one of our local papers. Thankfully Paul Flynn called it as it was. It was pathetic to read excuses from Mullane trying to insulate Derek McGrath.

Any link or can you give the gist of flynns article please?

culbaire

Slobbery wrote: »

Any link or can you give the gist of flynns article please?

I read the article in the paper itself not online. The article is titled "Waterford hurling stuck in the middle of a hurling identity crisis". It is a brilliant analysis of the game. He describes in detail how Wexford hurled as a team. He states that in relation to Waterford "All in all the structure of the team was all over the place". The positioning of forwards outfield closing space for the opposition backfired while Wexford full back will hardly ever get an easier game". The clustering of players around our half backline played into Wexford hands where they pounced on breaks and revelled in the physical element of the game. He asks some very hard questions about the substitutions. There is much much more in the article. Make sure you read the full article.

tomwaterford

culbaire wrote: »

I read the article in the paper itself not online. The article is titled "Waterford hurling stuck in the middle of a hurling identity crisis". It is a brilliant analysis of the game. He describes in detail how Wexford hurled as a team. He states that in relation to Waterford "All in all the structure of the team was all over the place". The positioning of forwards outfield closing space for the opposition backfired while Wexford full back will hardly ever get an easier game". The clustering of players around our half backline played into Wexford hands where they pounced on breaks and revelled in the physical element of the game. He asks some very hard questions about the substitutions. There is much much more in the article. Make sure you read the full article.

which paper is it in??

culbaire

tomwaterford wrote: »

which paper is it in??

News and Star

MfMan

culbaire wrote: »

An outside manager is needed if Waterford is is to get anywhere in senior hurling. No point in talking about Mullane or Shanahan . Derek Mcgrath is just not good enough. Interesting to read rubbish about 2015 in one of our local papers. Thankfully Paul Flynn called it as it was. It was pathetic to read excuses from Mullane trying to insulate Derek McGrath.

You had Justin McCarthy and Davy Fitz, and couldn't wait to get rid of them. Who from outside would want it now?

hardybuck

MfMan wrote: »

You had Justin McCarthy and Davy Fitz, and couldn't wait to get rid of them. Who from outside would want it now?

Justin McCarthy had the role from 2001 - 2008. That was the longest period of time he spent with any team in his long coaching career. How many intercounty managers are in their roles that long?

Davy Fitzgerald had the gig for three seasons. I wouldn't be surprised if that is as long as he'll get in his home county. For us, his cost in particular was unsustainable.

Mountainlad

The ****e written about McCarthy really annoys me. He should have walked himself after 2007. You can't keep him forever, and the players actually kept him in the job in 2005.

He treated several panel members terribly, and while he did great things for Waterford that everyone appreciates, I have no sympathy for him as a so called victim. Orchestrator of his own demise.

Don't even start on the other fella, hes more than shown his stripes this year.

1club1county

Any word on the Minors preparation for Sunday. Hope they've no injury worries and can do the job against Dublin.

1club1county

And is WLR covering the game. Struggling to get a ticket

culbaire

MfMan wrote: »

You had Justin McCarthy and Davy Fitz, and couldn't wait to get rid of them. Who from outside would want it now?

Don't know who you are referring to when you say "YOU"!!!
Every manager comes to a parting of the ways no matter what county you reside in. Gerald McCarthy, Justin McCarthy achieved a lot with Waterford. Davy Fitzgerald brought a fading team to a Munster Senior Hurling title. One thing is certain: The county will go nowhere unless a new manager from outside the county is brought in. I happen to know of several excellent coaches who would like to have a go at the Waterford job. This year was an unmitigated disaster.
Do you think the Kilkenny hurling supporters or the Kilkenny Co Board would tolerate such a litany of failure?

robopaddy

culbaire wrote: »

Do you think the Kilkenny hurling supporters or the Kilkenny Co Board would tolerate such a litany of failure?

This gets boring. Sorry

Waterford cd

Unchanged minor team for sunday

Tramore84

Mountainlad wrote: »

The ****e written about McCarthy really annoys me. He should have walked himself after 2007. You can't keep him forever, and the players actually kept him in the job in 2005.

He treated several panel members terribly, and while he did great things for Waterford that everyone appreciates, I have no sympathy for him as a so called victim. Orchestrator of his own demise.

Don't even start on the other fella, hes more than shown his stripes this year.

There is really no argument against outside managers. All the titles won in the last 12 years have been won with outside managers. Gerald McCarthy really started things off for us again in the late 90's and we need someone else to come in now from outside the county. Justin had his faults but his record here speaks for itself. Who should come in at this stage - I don't know - there have to be better options out there than the present crew. No problem with having a waterford man in charge as long as he is good at it. For the U 21s , I think the experiment of using well-meaning former players should be binned - Fergal Hartley and this years omnishambles have shown that. I would be in favour of putting in place one of the development coaches who have been with the players through the ranks. There are some disadvantages to that but at least the coach will know the players well enough.

Mountainlad

Tramore84 wrote: »

There is really no argument against outside managers. All the titles won in the last 12 years have been won with outside managers. Gerald McCarthy really started things off for us again in the late 90's and we need someone else to come in now from outside the county. Justin had his faults but his record here speaks for itself. Who should come in at this stage - I don't know - there have to be better options out there than the present crew. No problem with having a waterford man in charge as long as he is good at it. For the U 21s , I think the experiment of using well-meaning former players should be binned - Fergal Hartley and this years omnishambles have shown that. I would be in favour of putting in place one of the development coaches who have been with the players through the ranks. There are some disadvantages to that but at least the coach will know the players well enough.

I think quality of manager is the benchmark. Does not matter where they are from. Results will out.

The reality is that McGrath will be there next year. He will get the chance to put things right. Whether he deserves another chance or not is debatable. But in my opinion no matter how bad this year was (and it's been the worst I've seen in 14 years), I am not a fan of one year contracts.

And if results do turn around, there will be no East/West divide here with the exception of the 'I told ya so' brigade who are split equally across the County, and love to show up on the back of one game and declare they were right.

culbaire

robopaddy wrote: »

This gets boring. Sorry

What gets boring is the capacity of Waterford GAA to continuously shoot itself in the foot. We had an unmitigated disaster this year with another Waterford manager, plus ca change. The reality is that this shambles- and it is a shambles- would not be tolerated in any other hurling county except Waterford.

culbaire

Mountainlad wrote: »

I think quality of manager is the benchmark. Does not matter where they are from. Results will out.

The reality is that McGrath will be there next year. He will get the chance to put things right. Whether he deserves another chance or not is debatable. But in my opinion no matter how bad this year was (and it's been the worst I've seen in 14 years), I am not a fan of one year contracts.

And if results do turn around, there will be no East/West divide here with the exception of the 'I told ya so' brigade who are split equally across the County, and love to show up on the back of one game and declare they were right.

McGrath may be there but a lot of Waterford supporters may not be there. In fact I know many who have had enough. Please dont tell me that they are fine day supporters. They have supported Waterford through thick and thin. I think we got warning enough at Nowlan Park of what is likely to happen in future. The fiasco has huge implications for the finances of Waterford Co. Board. It will hit sponsorship and more than likely impinge on attendances at Co. Championship matches. This is something that many people fail to appreciate.
You state that Derek McGrath will be in situ again. In that case it is time for the introduction of new blood at Co. Board level. In short we need the selection of a new Co. Board which will take some very hard decisions in relation Waterford hurling before it ends up Division 2. We don't need the same old conservative faces steering the ship on to the rocks!! Not so long ago Waterford hurlers ended up in Division 3 of the NHL and were beaten by Mayo and Roscommon. Don't think it could not happen again!! Incidentally we had rubbish from John Mullane that the players are not there. That was always the cry in Waterford when local managers presided over shambolic team preparation and selection- as we had this year. What Mullane should have said of course is that the players are there but the managerial capacity is not.

robopaddy

culbaire wrote: »

What gets boring is the capacity of Waterford GAA to continuously shoot itself in the foot. We had an unmitigated disaster this year with another Waterford manager, plus ca change. The reality is that this shambles- and it is a shambles- would not be tolerated in any other hurling county except Waterford.

This whole 'you wouldn't see it in Kilkenny' nonsense. People were constantly spouting that argument even during the times of Justin Gerald and Davy and your still at it. It dosent win any argument for me. Kk have a fantastic pool of players one of the best there ever has been. They have a manager who has the whole system down to a fine art and in reality has the co board eating out of the palm of his hand. It works because they are winning. No one complains. But their setup is not without it flaws either anyone up there will tell you that. This group of players will move on eventually. So will Cody. There will be a lull. They will then have to tolerate a period of decline while waiting for the next generation of players to come through.

To keep suggesting that they run sort of a flawless operation that we should be copying is total crap

culbaire

robopaddy wrote: »

This whole 'you wouldn't see it in Kilkenny' nonsense. People were constantly spouting that argument even during the times of Justin Gerald and Davy and your still at it. It dosent win any argument for me. Kk have a fantastic pool of players one of the best there ever has been. They have a manager who has the whole system down to a fine art and in reality has the co board eating out of the palm of his hand. It works because they are winning. No one complains. But their setup is not without it flaws either anyone up there will tell you that. This group of players will move on eventually. So will Cody. There will be a lull. They will then have to tolerate a period of decline while waiting for the next generation of players to come through.

To keep suggesting that they run sort of a flawless operation that we should be copying is total crap

I notice that you labour the point re Kilkenny but dodge the central issue of McGrath who has been a total failure! By the way the two McCarthys had a philosophy of hurling. Contrast the style of hurling played under Justin McCarthy with that of Derek McGrath! The point I was making is that shambolic set up which currently prevails in Waterford would not be tolerated in Kilkenny, Tipperary or Cork. We are either serious as a county about trying to win an All Ireland or we are not. At present we are not. The decent skins are out trying to sanitise what has been a disaster. Kilkenny has won TWENTY Senior Hurling All Irelands since Waterford won its last Senior Hurling All Ireland in 1959. I think that speaks volumes! I couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. The facts speak for themselves. Incidentally I NEVER criticised the style of hurling fostered by the two McCarthys. I never compared them unfavourably towards Kilkenny. I loved the free flowing style favoured by both.

TheQuietFella

The County Board couldn't run a successful raffle in Waterford & they need an outside influence to bring some form
of success back to the county. Waterford just don't know success or how to be successful & bringing someone through
the ranks is only putting the county in reverse. Same old sh**e happening again in the dressing room.
Waterford needs some one who has been there & done it & not just at local level!

hurler on de ditch

robopaddy wrote: »

This whole 'you wouldn't see it in Kilkenny' nonsense. People were constantly spouting that argument even during the times of Justin Gerald and Davy and your still at it. It dosent win any ever has been.argument for me. Kk have a fantastic pool of players one of the best there They have a manager who has the whole system down to a fine art and in reality has the co board eating out of the palm of his hand. It works because they are winning. No one complains. But their setup is not without it flaws either anyone up there will tell you that. This group of players will move on eventually. So will Cody. There will be a lull. They will then have to tolerate a period of decline while waiting for the next generation of players to come through.

To keep suggesting that they run sort of a flawless operation that we should be copying is total crap

i agree with the Cody thing ,,he will move on if you look at the low points here ,i think there was a 9 year period (83-92) where they(KIKENNY) had not won an All Ireland ,other than that its a pretty successful hurling co,one All Ireland every 4 years as opposed to Waterford,s tally of one All Ireland every 65 years ,my point is in reference to you post about a pool of players ,its not neccesarily all about the players but more about the system in place ,Co board,finances,Co Grounds,Management, etc etc,they are on a roll again,Walsh Cup,Leinster ,sitting pretty in all Ireland semi,cant wait for the lull, we have systemic failure,systemic cronyism,while our neighbours enjoy unrivalled success,and a bank balance and county grounds to be totally envious off ,but there is also numerous other so called hurling counties that we think we're better than,or should be beating or they are not as good as us,or they were lucky we were poor,etc etc ,

hurler on de ditch

culbaire wrote: »

I notice that you labour the point re Kilkenny but dodge the central issue of McGrath who has been a total failure! By the way the two McCarthys had a philosophy of hurling. Contrast the style of hurling played under Justin McCarthy with that of Derek McGrath! The point I was making is that shambolic set up which currently prevails in Waterford would not be tolerated in Kilkenny, Tipperary or Cork. We are either serious as a county about trying to win an All Ireland or we are not. At present we are not. The decent skins are out trying to sanitise what has been a disaster. Kilkenny has won TWENTY Senior Hurling All Irelands since Waterford won its last Senior Hurling All Ireland in 1959. I think that speaks volumes! I couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. The facts speak for themselves. Incidentally I NEVER criticised the style of hurling fostered by the two McCarthys. I never compared them unfavourably towards Kilkenny. I loved the free flowing style favoured by both.

YES BOY

pmy.murphy

culbaire wrote: »

What gets boring is the capacity of Waterford GAA to continuously shoot itself in the foot. We had an unmitigated disaster this year with another Waterford manager, plus ca change. The reality is that this shambles- and it is a shambles- would not be tolerated in any other hurling county except Waterford.

To be honest there would be a serious uproar in kilkenny if continuous failure was the case. I remember when our minors got hammered by Dublin in the opening game of the season plus our U21s the reaction was not too pleasant