Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1
Options
Comments
-
Sliabh gCua1 wrote: »You are correct when you say the players are there. There is also some good underage players around, but good underage players or underage teams dont always mean that things will be carried forward to the highest level.
Our biggest problem in Waterford is our structures. But nobody has the balls to re-examine them. We have to have a serious look at how we do things here in Waterford starting from 2015. We have to get rid of the divisional boards, but i suppose if and when it comes to a vote, like turkey's not voting for Christmas, most clubs wont vote for change.
I cant see any of the of the divisional officers voting to abolish the boards they sit on, and you will get some who are on the county board who wont vote for change. Add in the clubs of the officers who wont vote for change, because they wont want to go against their club member, automatically, there is a substancial amount of votes in favour of keeping things the way they are.
You have to wonder what some players are getting out of the systems we currently have. I dont always like making examples of players, but will for this. Take Colin Dunford as an example. He was one of our most impressive players in this years championship. He plays with Colligan who have four junior championship games at a minimum this year and would get three more if they were to go on to contest a county final. Is that really enough for a player of his calibre. Four clubs compete in the western junior hurling this year, down from seven a few years back {Ballysaggart promoted, Kilgobinet relegated, Kilrossanty no longer play hurling}, thats three games and just to make up games, the team you play in the first round, you play them a second time.
Because of the shambolic County Website we have here in Waterford where it is hard at times to find results and league tables, off the top of my head i dont know how many clubs are playing junior hurling in the east of the county, at a guess, maybe four or five more clubs.
Why not put all of these seven or eight clubs into the one group and let them play each other once, then have quarter finals, semi finals and a final. That way a club could have a good amount of games which will bring on players more.
I think that every championship, in every sport, should be designed so that the two best teams get to the final, the current structure of the Junior and intermediate championship does not allow for this.
The east and west finals are effectively semi finals, their could be 5 teams in the east of higher quality than the west winner or vice versa, therefore the two best teams int he county may not be competing in the county final.
if it was all county, standards would raise to the same level and the best teams would play each other at the finish.
I know it was all county in the '90s at intermediate grade, I wonder why they discontinued it0 -
It wouldn't be that hard to forget, I was at both games. That was a very poor cork team with the 'twin towers' in attack. What I mean by scalps is that when it came to the bigger teams Waterford were never at the races, aka Tipp in 2011.
On a side note, Fitzgerald prematurely retired Ken Mcgrath and Dan who both at another year in them.
Playing Ken centre field on his last outing in a Waterford shirt bordered on madness.0 -
I think that every championship, in every sport, should be designed so that the two best teams get to the final, the current structure of the Junior and intermediate championship does not allow for this.
The east and west finals are effectively semi finals, their could be 5 teams in the east of higher quality than the west winner or vice versa, therefore the two best teams int he county may not be competing in the county final.
if it was all county, standards would raise to the same level and the best teams would play each other at the finish.
I know it was all county in the '90s at intermediate grade, I wonder why they discontinued it
I dont think it is any great secret that the two divisional boards take in their greatest amount of money each year from the Intermediate Hurling Championship.0 -
I think that every championship, in every sport, should be designed so that the two best teams get to the final, the current structure of the Junior and intermediate championship does not allow for this.
The east and west finals are effectively semi finals, their could be 5 teams in the east of higher quality than the west winner or vice versa, therefore the two best teams int he county may not be competing in the county final.
if it was all county, standards would raise to the same level and the best teams would play each other at the finish.
I know it was all county in the '90s at intermediate grade, I wonder why they discontinued it
I dont think it is any great secret that the two divisional boards take in their greatest amount of money each year from the Intermediate Hurling Championship.
I agree with you that championships should have the best two teams in the final. No disrespect to Dunhill, who were in the Intermediate Final last year, while they reached the county final which would suggest that they were one of the top two teams in that grade of hurling in 2013, in my view, Ardmore who beat them in the County Final and CLashmore who Ardmore beat in the Western Final were better teams than Dunhill and would have made a better final, the final result of which gives a bit of a false gulf in the difference between the sides on the day. Ardmore were better than the winning margin of victory would suggest.0 -
Culbaire, I think I'll let Dan, Flannery and Maher (3 of which who themselves have a bit to prove credentials wise anyway) make up their mind for themselves whether they are happy or not instead of putting my faith in what you 'imagine'.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but were you not calling for outside help for the management after the league, and did you not claim it would never happen because he was too set in his ways or some such thing?
Jim Greene wouldn't be my choice either, and I would hope (though the evidence is compelling) that Martin O Neill got on the field had nothing to do with him.
But he looked for help from someone he trusts, for whatever reason. Were you expecting him to give you a call for that outside help?
I'm not trying to say I would be happy with what achieved, but I have little reason to believe there is a great deal better available at this present time and am open to the idea that McGrath could improve, hopefully considerably as otherwise his days are numbered be it next year or the year after.
I expect to see changes and a different approach next year.0 -
Advertisement
-
Sliabh gCua1 wrote: »And 12 months later was in charge of a team and came up with a game plan were we suffered a defeat that was more embarrassing that the ones of 1982 and 83 put together.
Is Liam Dunne getting that kind of treatment?0 -
Sliabh gCua1 wrote: »
You have to wonder what some players are getting out of the systems we currently have. I dont always like making examples of players, but will for this. Take Colin Dunford as an example. He was one of our most impressive players in this years championship. He plays with Colligan who have four junior championship games at a minimum this year and would get three more if they were to go on to contest a county final. Is that really enough for a player of his calibre. Four clubs compete in the western junior hurling this year, down from seven a few years back {Ballysaggart promoted, Kilgobinet relegated, Kilrossanty no longer play hurling}, thats three games and just to make up games, the team you play in the first round, you play them a second time.
Because of the shambolic County Website we have here in Waterford where it is hard at times to find results and league tables, off the top of my head i dont know how many clubs are playing junior hurling in the east of the county, at a guess, maybe four or five more clubs.
Why not put all of these seven or eight clubs into the one group and let them play each other once, then have quarter finals, semi finals and a final. That way a club could have a good amount of games which will bring on players more.
In the eastern junior proper you have Fenor, Ballydurn, Bunmahon, Ballyduff Lower and St. Paul's. That's 4 championship matches a year for some teams. Definetly time to go all county at junior level and give the players what they want and get elsewhere in sports like soccer - plenty of games.0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »I expect to see changes and a different approach next year.
What makes you expect that.
What players ask for in any set up is professionalism in approach, leadership, consistency in decision making, honesty and an even handedness across the board in being dealt with.
All of the above goes towards building a team spirit where everyone in the camp can look one another straight in the eye and be prepared to go the extra yard for one another.
They got none that this year.
What makes you expect that next year will be any different with the same guy in charge?
And, even worse still Jim Greene as a selector!!0 -
Sure lads, if as many of you say, the players will be deciding who the manager is and how long his tenure will be, what are we wasting all this time debating the matter!? They'll come to a decision on it either way...0
-
Alf Tupper wrote: »What makes you expect that.
What players ask for in any set up is professionalism in approach, leadership, consistency in decision making, honesty and an even handedness across the board in being dealt with.
All of the above goes towards building a team spirit where everyone in the camp can look one another straight in the eye and be prepared to go the extra yard for one another.
They got none that this year.
What makes you expect that next year will be any different with the same guy in charge?
And, even worse still Jim Greene as a selector!!
Alf, fair enough there was nothing achieved this year that would inspire a huge amount of confidence. I do believe they'll acknowledge it though and look to adapt, I believe that very strongly in fact.
Aside from what you mentioned about the Sullivans influence on the Waterford camp and Jim Greene being an advisor, the tactics as well can you tell me exactly about the lack of professionalism in the setup? I dunno about lack of consistency, they seemed pretty consistent in terms of how they laid out the team but that was most people's main complaint.
Not trying to have a go here, but just would like to know exactly what didn't meet the required standard in terms of preparation. I think it would be unfair for anyone to say these things without qualifying it with examples.0 -
Advertisement
-
Mountainlad wrote: »Alf, fair enough there was nothing achieved this year that would inspire a huge amount of confidence. I do believe they'll acknowledge it though and look to adapt, I believe that very strongly in fact.
Aside from what you mentioned about the Sullivans influence on the Waterford camp and Jim Greene being an advisor, the tactics as well can you tell me exactly about the lack of professionalism in the setup? I dunno about lack of consistency, they seemed pretty consistent in terms of how they laid out the team but that was most people's main complaint.
Not trying to have a go here, but just would like to know exactly what didn't meet the required standard in terms of preparation. I think it would be unfair for anyone to say these things without qualifying it with examples.
Waterford players were no where near fit enough this year compared to other counties.
Manager not speaking to certain players for months.
Certain selectors telling players that they were in the frame and would definitely start certain games but when these games would come around the same players would not get a look in.
Players dropped without any feedback whatsoever from management, even those some of those players had actually achieved awards for their previous performances.
Certain players undroppable (the famous five), no matter how they performed with other players knowing that no matter how they performed they would not get a look in.
Selectors split and arguing because of the above.
Some players sent back to the Intermediate panel at different times for disciplinary reasons whilst a blind eye given to "special" players who were considered to need a break.
No consistency whatsoever to picking teams and substitutions with some players not having trained at all in any capacity all year getting game time.
And the final ignominy for selectors and players alike, the appointment of an "advisor".0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »
Not trying to have a go here, but just would like to know exactly what didn't meet the required standard in terms of preparation. I think it would be unfair for anyone to say these things without qualifying it with examples.
Well the fact that lads were going down with cramp with 20 minutes to go against cork would indicate a lack of preparation. Same against Wexford. 3rd week on the trot and we were the ones that looked shagged!0 -
-
Mountainlad wrote: »Who went down with cramp?
Oh my god I didn't exactly take notes that I can refer to. That first day against cork about 5/6 lads went down!0 -
Oh my god I didn't exactly take notes that I can refer to. That first day against cork about 5/6 lads went down!
I saw nobody go down with cramp. Again, the Cork game it seemed to be far more of an issue in this thread than actually on the field as I saw Gleeson going down alright but that was about it? Admittedly, saw it on tv so not the best vantage point.
Like I dunno if ye want to make me out that way or not, but I'm not in anyone's camp here. I'm not happy, nor am I particularly defending McGrath per say (I haven't pointed to him being better than anyone or a good choice as manager or anything of the sort) but at the same time it's a bit of a free for all with nobody constrained by the chains of over exaggeration, that's for sure.
I don't think people can say whatever they want, you should have to back up cut and dry statements. But nobody is being challenged about things that seem to me that are likely extensions of the truth. Albeit no more than one would expect on an internet forum but nonetheless I'd like to be able to discern between those who are looking at every aspect of it and what the problem is, even thinking about what could be done differently that might improve the situation but instead a few just want to beat the drum loudly.
By the way, I agree they didn't look fit enough. Just think exaggerations detract from valid points people actually might be making, that is all.0 -
Highlights of both Waterford minor games are up on the tg4 replayer0
-
Mountainlad wrote: »I saw nobody go down with cramp. Again, the Cork game it seemed to be far more of an issue in this thread than actually on the field as I saw Gleeson going down alright but that was about it? Admittedly, saw it on tv so not the best vantage point.
Like I dunno if ye want to make me out that way or not, but I'm not in anyone's camp here. I'm not happy, nor am I particularly defending McGrath per say (I haven't pointed to him being better than anyone or a good choice as manager or anything of the sort) but at the same time it's a bit of a free for all with nobody constrained by the chains of over exaggeration, that's for sure.
I don't think people can say whatever they want, you should have to back up cut and dry statements. But nobody is being challenged about things that seem to me that are likely extensions of the truth. Albeit no more than one would expect on an internet forum but nonetheless I'd like to be able to discern between those who are looking at every aspect of it and what the problem is, even thinking about what could be done differently that might improve the situation but instead a few just want to beat the drum loudly.
By the way, I agree they didn't look fit enough. Just think exaggerations detract from valid points people actually might be making, that is all.
No exaggeration of the truth whatsoever. For obvious reasons the finer details can't be openly discussed on here but suffice to say whomever Alf tubber is he's 100% spot on. Maybe a chat over a pint mountainlad would convince you of what is be quoted here is far from exaggerated 😉0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »I saw nobody go down with cramp.
Dont know if it was cramp or injury - but what about Austin Gleeson. Waterford did not have a sub left in the closing minutes of the game and he was dead on his feet. To be fair to the selectors however, they had to use a sub very quickly that day following Eddie Barrett's injury.0 -
Senior Football and Hurling Fixtures for the remainder of the League Stages of the Championship if anyone has not seen them.
SFC – Round 4 – Clashmore V Ballinacourty – Thursday evening at 8pm in Fraher Field
SFC – Round 4 – Ardmore V An Rinn – Wednesday evening at 7-30pm in Bushy Park
SFC – Round 4 – Kilrossanty V Rathgormack in Fraher Field on Wednesday evening at 7-30pm
SFC – Round 4 – Ballinameela V Stradbally in Fraher Field on Friday evening at 7-30pm
SFC – Round 4 – De La Salle V The Nire in Stradbally on Wednesday evening at 7-30pm
SFC – Round 4 – Saint Saviours V Gaultier in Walsh Park on Thursday evening at 7-30pm
SFC – Round 5 – Ballinacourty V Kilrossanty in Fraher Field on August 30 at 7pm
SFC – Round 5 – An Rinn V Rathgormack in Stradbally on August 30 at 7pm
SFC – Round 5 – Clashmore V Ardmore in Bushy Park on August 30 at 7pm
SFC – Round 5 – Stradbally V Saint Saviours in Walsh Park on August 31 at 7pm
SFC – Round 5 – The Nire V Gaultier in Kill on August 31 at 7pm
SFC – Round 5 – Ballinameela V De La Salle in Fraher Field on August 30 at 7pm
SHC – Round 3 – Passage V Abbeyside on August 9 in Walsh Park at 7-30pm
SHC – Round 3 – Roanmore V Lismore on August 9 in Walsh Park at 6pm
SHC – Round 3 – De La Salle V Fourmilewater on August 9 in Bunmahon at 7-30pm
SHC – Round 3 – Ballygunner V Mount Sion on August 7 in Walsh Park at 7-30pm
SHC – Round 3 – Dungarvan V Ardmore on August 7 in Fraher Field at 7-30pm
SHC – Round 3 – Ballyduff V Lismore on August 8 in Lismore at 7-30pm
SHC – Round 4 – Fourmilewater V Passage on August 15 in Fraher Field at 7-30pm
SHC – Round 4 – Lismore V Abbeyside on August 16 in Fraher Field at 8pm
SHC - Round 4 – De La Salle V Roanmore on August 15 in Walsh Park at 7-30pm
SHC – Round 4 – Tallow V Ballygunner on August 17 in Fraher Field at 7pm
SHC – Round 4 – Ardmore V Mount Sion on August 16 in Kill at 7-30pm
SHC – Round 4 – Ballyduff V Dungarvan on August 16 in Fraher Field at 7-30pm
SHC – Round 5 – Passage V De La Salle on August 23 in Walsh Park at 6-30pm
SHC – Round 5 – Abbeyside V Roanmore on August 23 in Kill at 7-30pm
SHC – Round 5 – Fourmilewater V Lismore on August 23 in Fraher Field at 7-30pm
SHC – Round 5 – Ballygunner V Ballyduff on August 23 in Fraher Field at 6pm
SHC – Round 5 – Mount Sion V Dungarvan on August 23 in Walsh Park at 6pm
SHC – Round 5 – Tallow V Ardmore on August 23 in Clashmore at 6pm0 -
Sliabh gCua1 wrote: »Dont know if it was cramp or injury - but what about Austin Gleeson. Waterford did not have a sub left in the closing minutes of the game and he was dead on his feet. To be fair to the selectors however, they had to use a sub very quickly that day following Eddie Barrett's injury.
I mentioned that to be fair, it was the Wexford game I didn't see anybody going down with cramp.0 -
Advertisement
-
Mountainlad wrote: »I mentioned that to be fair, it was the Wexford game I didn't see anybody going down with cramp.
It's a well known fact Aussie Gleeson has dodgy hamstrings past 12 months or so he tends to cramp up very easy.
Just like to add that, also the fitness was below par but that cant be rectified in 6 weeks when were hurling, so maybe next year we shud expect that to resolved that was clear to see in fairness.
Final point Derek will be there next year End of
Like it or lump it
ps- Mountainlad thats not aimed at you by the way just replied0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »Culbaire, I think I'll let Dan, Flannery and Maher (3 of which who themselves have a bit to prove credentials wise anyway) make up their mind for themselves whether they are happy or not instead of putting my faith in what you 'imagine'.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but were you not calling for outside help for the management after the league, and did you not claim it would never happen because he was too set in his ways or some such thing?
Jim Greene wouldn't be my choice either, and I would hope (though the evidence is compelling) that Martin O Neill got on the field had nothing to do with him.
But he looked for help from someone he trusts, for whatever reason. Were you expecting him to give you a call for that outside help?
I'm not trying to say I would be happy with what achieved, but I have little reason to believe there is a great deal better available at this present time and am open to the idea that McGrath could improve, hopefully considerably as otherwise his days are numbered be it next year or the year after.
I expect to see changes and a different approach next year.
Sorry Mountainlad, I actually think you talk a lot of sense sometimes and don't want to be checking you again re the club, but what is this compelling evidence re Martin O Neill you speak of above? Just that I happened to be at a couple of training sessions and the lad was flying. Likewise, recent club form has been excellent. Maybe he was worthy of a shot? What evidence do you have to the contrary? The work that youngfella has done on his own in the past twelve months to make it back from a cruciate injury and to make it back into county reckoning is worthy of huge credit. Whether you or I think he should be playing is irrelevant-the mgt team thought he was worthy of it! I for one would have give Derek McGrath and his mgt far greater credit as selectors and hurling men and likewise Jim Greene, as to think they are above petty parochialism, the type you allude to. They are hurling men with Waterford's interests the priority, not Mt Sion's. Please give us the compelling evidence. If you don't have any, please give it a rest.
The effort Martin O' Neill has put in has been nothing short of incredible. He drops a couple of balls on his introduction in Wexford game and you deem his inclusion to be the work of Jim Greene? Give me a break, are you actually involved in club hurling at all? I think not, for if you were you surely would not come on here casting remarks like that. You'd respect people doing their best far more and actually commend the lad on his remarkable comeback. If you think somebody is not good enough that is fair comment. But to cast aspersions on the bona fide intentions and credibility of mgt is an altogether different matter. Does nobody any good. If you have "compelling evidence" to the contrary, I sincerely apologise in advance!0 -
Dickys Back Garden wrote: »Sorry Mountainlad, I actually think you talk a lot of sense sometimes and don't want to be checking you again re the club, but what is this compelling evidence re Martin O Neill you speak of above? Just that I happened to be at a couple of training sessions and the lad was flying. Likewise, recent club form has been excellent. Maybe he was worthy of a shot? What evidence do you have to the contrary? The work that youngfella has done on his own in the past twelve months to make it back from a cruciate injury and to make it back into county reckoning is worthy of huge credit. Whether you or I think he should be playing is irrelevant-the mgt team thought he was worthy of it! I for one would have give Derek McGrath and his mgt far greater credit as selectors and hurling men and likewise Jim Greene, as to think they are above petty parochialism, the type you allude to. They are hurling men with Waterford's interests the priority, not Mt Sion's. Please give us the compelling evidence. If you don't have any, please give it a rest.
The effort Martin O' Neill has put in has been nothing short of incredible. He drops a couple of balls on his introduction in Wexford game and you deem his inclusion to be the work of Jim Greene? Give me a break, are you actually involved in club hurling at all? I think not, for if you were you surely would not come on here casting remarks like that. You'd respect people doing their best far more and actually commend the lad on his remarkable comeback. If you think somebody is not good enough that is fair comment. But to cast aspersions on the bona fide intentions and credibility of mgt is an altogether different matter. Does nobody any good. If you have "compelling evidence" to the contrary, I sincerely apologise in advance!
Relax a minute. Your totally barking up the wrong tree here, ML is only referring to previous comments made by conspracy theorists like Alf Tupper and Culbaire. Out of all the rubbish they have been spouting the past week this is the one comment you chose to take exception to?
On another note, Did i see somewhere that Pat Bennett was drafted into the backroom staff for the Wexford game? Any truth in this if so anyone know what was his role was?
Assuming McGrath is still there next year, (unless theres another meeting at the Ramada scheduled for the morning of Sunday week) I think there definetly needs to be an overhaul of the backroom staff. My understanding is that William Maher agreed to give it one year initially and is interested in returning to Tipp next year to take the U21s (the same group he managed to an AI Minor in 2012). Also, I wouldnt be surprised to see Dan moved on aswell. Not questioning what he has brought to the setup his years of experience at the top level are bound to count for a lot but I think one year was always going to be as much as you could realistically get from him.0 -
Relax a minute. Your totally barking up the wrong tree here, ML is only referring to previous comments made by conspracy theorists like Alf Tupper and Culbaire. Out of all the rubbish they have been spouting the past week this is the one comment you chose to take exception to?
On another note, Did i see somewhere that Pat Bennett was drafted into the backroom staff for the Wexford game? Any truth in this if so anyone know what was his role was?
Assuming McGrath is still there next year, (unless theres another meeting at the Ramada scheduled for the morning of Sunday week) I think there definetly needs to be an overhaul of the backroom staff. My understanding is that William Maher agreed to give it one year initially and is interested in returning to Tipp next year to take the U21s (the same group he managed to an AI Minor in 2012). Also, I wouldnt be surprised to see Dan moved on aswell. Not questioning what he has brought to the setup his years of experience at the top level are bound to count for a lot but I think one year was always going to be as much as you could realistically get from him.
Didn't see those previous comments by the lads you mention. Will have a look back. Maybe that will give it some context. But exactly what part of my post do you not agree with? I happen to know the lad in question and I find it annoying that his place on the team is being deemed to be because there is a lad in the set up background has a say beyond his remit? I stand by everything I have said above, will go back and see if those two guys have the"evidence!" If they have provided it, I apologise to ML. If you find it before me you might put it up will you please?0 -
Dickys Back Garden wrote: »Sorry Mountainlad, I actually think you talk a lot of sense sometimes and don't want to be checking you again re the club, but what is this compelling evidence re Martin O Neill you speak of above? Just that I happened to be at a couple of training sessions and the lad was flying. Likewise, recent club form has been excellent. Maybe he was worthy of a shot? What evidence do you have to the contrary? The work that youngfella has done on his own in the past twelve months to make it back from a cruciate injury and to make it back into county reckoning is worthy of huge credit. Whether you or I think he should be playing is irrelevant-the mgt team thought he was worthy of it! I for one would have give Derek McGrath and his mgt far greater credit as selectors and hurling men and likewise Jim Greene, as to think they are above petty parochialism, the type you allude to. They are hurling men with Waterford's interests the priority, not Mt Sion's. Please give us the compelling evidence. If you don't have any, please give it a rest.
The effort Martin O' Neill has put in has been nothing short of incredible. He drops a couple of balls on his introduction in Wexford game and you deem his inclusion to be the work of Jim Greene? Give me a break, are you actually involved in club hurling at all? I think not, for if you were you surely would not come on here casting remarks like that. You'd respect people doing their best far more and actually commend the lad on his remarkable comeback. If you think somebody is not good enough that is fair comment. But to cast aspersions on the bona fide intentions and credibility of mgt is an altogether different matter. Does nobody any good. If you have "compelling evidence" to the contrary, I sincerely apologise in advance!
I would commend him highly on the work he's obviously put in, it's an awful thing for anyone to have to deal with. Remarkable is probably a bit far, while it is something that not anybody could do and takes a lot of commitment, far too many people do it for it to earn the term remarkable.
My opinion is pretty reasonable here, it's nothing to do with Martin O'Neill's ability. He cannot have been ready to take to the field against Wexford. No way, not having not played at all during the league and missing a lot of the hard pre season others would have done. That much was apparent when he came on, and I wouldn't hold that against him but it's actually unfair on him to be asked to do it even though I have no doubt he obviously wants to give it a go himself.
You're working back to a base with a cruciate ligament injury, I've seen it several times you don't comeback after a year and suddenly your at the same level. To skip the queue like that so to speak is pretty unusual. I would be concerned either way but I would have to think that if I know as much about the consequences of such an injury, McGrath and the others definitely would.
To add to this, Martin O Neill actually came on v Laois as well. And when did it emerge that Jim Greene was advising Derek McGrath? Just after the Laois game. I would assume myself, without knowing for sure, that it wasn't long before that time he started asking for his assistance. Otherwise, it would have been used as a stick to beat him with far sooner by those opposed to McGrath's tenure to date. Are you telling me he had no influence on the decision? It was the wrong call, and again no slight on O'Neill in that regard, you've picked me up wrong which to be honest isn't surprising.
I am involved in club hurling, and to that extent I can actually understand to a degree why those managers would have a bias towards players they've coached or who are part of their clubs before, no more than me and you. You've seen O Neill do great things underage for the club no doubt and lead the line in a few Senior games. McGrath will remember someone like Barry Coughlan's contribution to his school team. That makes you more favourable towards them, and to some extent would blinker the view of them.
But when you become the main man in Waterford hurling, or are advising the main man or involved in his selection process in any way, these are the things you have to look past and call a spade a spade. Jake Dillon is another who hasn't been fit to play and pretty similar scenario. And if you want an example of a player who is the proof of how it takes time to recover in every way from injuries, Darragh Fives v Clare last year and Wexford this year versus how he played v Kilkenny last year is case and point.0 -
Don't try and misrepresent what I posted. I have never used the word "imagine". What I have posted here is based on FACT not spin. I am calling it EXACTLY as it is not like the decent skins some of whom in the media continue with rubbish about the three year plan and McGrath the strategist. When I called for outside help I meant a coach of stature from OUTSIDE Co. Waterford not somebody from within Co. Waterford. I SPECIFICALLY mentioned Co. Kilkenny and Co. Cork.Mountainlad wrote: »Culbaire, I think I'll let Dan, Flannery and Maher (3 of which who themselves have a bit to prove credentials wise anyway) make up their mind for themselves whether they are happy or not instead of putting my faith in what you 'imagine'.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but were you not calling for outside help for the management after the league, and did you not claim it would never happen because he was too set in his ways or some such thing?
Jim Greene wouldn't be my choice either, and I would hope (though the evidence is compelling) that Martin O Neill got on the field had nothing to do with him.
But he looked for help from someone he trusts, for whatever reason. Were you expecting him to give you a call for that outside help?
I'm not trying to say I would be happy with what achieved, but I have little reason to believe there is a great deal better available at this present time and am open to the idea that McGrath could improve, hopefully considerably as otherwise his days are numbered be it next year or the year after.
I expect to see changes and a different approach next year.
Derek McGrath has failed abysmally. Remember this was supposed to be the golden team.0 -
What is Jim Greene's track record as a senior intercounty coach/selector. Mountainland is correct re Martin O'Neill.Dickys Back Garden wrote: »Sorry Mountainlad, I actually think you talk a lot of sense sometimes and don't want to be checking you again re the club, but what is this compelling evidence re Martin O Neill you speak of above? Just that I happened to be at a couple of training sessions and the lad was flying. Likewise, recent club form has been excellent. Maybe he was worthy of a shot? What evidence do you have to the contrary? The work that youngfella has done on his own in the past twelve months to make it back from a cruciate injury and to make it back into county reckoning is worthy of huge credit. Whether you or I think he should be playing is irrelevant-the mgt team thought he was worthy of it! I for one would have give Derek McGrath and his mgt far greater credit as selectors and hurling men and likewise Jim Greene, as to think they are above petty parochialism, the type you allude to. They are hurling men with Waterford's interests the priority, not Mt Sion's. Please give us the compelling evidence. If you don't have any, please give it a rest.
The effort Martin O' Neill has put in has been nothing short of incredible. He drops a couple of balls on his introduction in Wexford game and you deem his inclusion to be the work of Jim Greene? Give me a break, are you actually involved in club hurling at all? I think not, for if you were you surely would not come on here casting remarks like that. You'd respect people doing their best far more and actually commend the lad on his remarkable comeback. If you think somebody is not good enough that is fair comment. But to cast aspersions on the bona fide intentions and credibility of mgt is an altogether different matter. Does nobody any good. If you have "compelling evidence" to the contrary, I sincerely apologise in advance!0 -
I am no conspiracy theorist. I call it as it is. It is just that people like you are in denial about the shambles that has prevailed this year. Alf Tupper has called it as it is. You obviously dont like the truth. You are now endeavouring to shield Derek McGrath by trying to load the blame onto Maher and Shanahan. It won't work. The buck stops with Derek McGrath the "master tactician" who is out of his depth and who has put Waterford hurling back years. Derek McGrath was the boss not Dan Shanahan. We need a senior intercounty manager with a proven track record from OUTSIDE the county. Using Shanahan and Maher as sacrificial lambs is not the solution and won't wash with Waterford supporters.Relax a minute. Your totally barking up the wrong tree here, ML is only referring to previous comments made by conspracy theorists like Alf Tupper and Culbaire. Out of all the rubbish they have been spouting the past week this is the one comment you chose to take exception to?
On another note, Did i see somewhere that Pat Bennett was drafted into the backroom staff for the Wexford game? Any truth in this if so anyone know what was his role was?
Assuming McGrath is still there next year, (unless theres another meeting at the Ramada scheduled for the morning of Sunday week) I think there definetly needs to be an overhaul of the backroom staff. My understanding is that William Maher agreed to give it one year initially and is interested in returning to Tipp next year to take the U21s (the same group he managed to an AI Minor in 2012). Also, I wouldnt be surprised to see Dan moved on aswell. Not questioning what he has brought to the setup his years of experience at the top level are bound to count for a lot but I think one year was always going to be as much as you could realistically get from him.0 -
Could you post direct links to them, please. Thankswillietherock wrote: »Highlights of both Waterford minor games are up on the tg4 replayer0 -
Advertisement
-
I am no conspiracy theorist. I call it as it is. It is just that people like you are in denial about the shambles that has prevailed this year. Alf Tupper has called it as it is. You obviously dont like the truth. You are now endeavouring to shield Derek McGrath by trying to load the blame onto Maher and Shanahan. It won't work. The buck stops with Derek McGrath the "master tactician" who is out of his depth and who has put Waterford hurling back years. Derek McGrath was the boss not Dan Shanahan. We need a senior intercounty manager with a proven track record from OUTSIDE the county. Using Shanahan and Maher as sacrificial lambs is not the solution and won't wash with Waterford supporters.
You just need to have patience. Give McGrath time. He has a proven track record at club and schools level. This is the final piece in the jigsaw. Give him a chance.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement