Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Sliabh gCua1

Annie Oakes wrote: »

ad I cant remember them winning any sort of competition underage in recent times, at least not in the A divisions anyway.

I think that thinking like this shows whats wrong with the GAA in Waterford amongst the supporters. We have a large amount of people who think that teams must playing at the top level or they are no good. Success at underage level does not always means success at adult level.

I think Galway are a prime example of this. Off the top of my head, their last Senior Hurling All-Ireland win was in 1988. How many minor and under 21 finals have they won since then. Just because you are winning at these levels does not mean further success will follow. A little closer to home I like to think about Stradbally in Football. I know they have won things in underage grades and at primary schools levels down the years, but not as much as some of the other big clubs in the county, yet over the past decade and a half they are the most consistant senior football team in the county.

The above also reminds me of something a County Minor Hurling selector said at a county board meeting over 10 years ago. He stood up and told clubs that they wont be picking any players that had played division three and four hurling at under 14 and 16 levels. When he and his fellow selectors discovered that they were not able to pick a team from players who played division one and the best of division two teams, they discovered that there was better players playing in the lower grades than there was in division one and soon called them in their set up.

Sliabh gCua1

The blue blaa wrote: »

I'd like to highlight this one to ye,

For a 15/16 yr old hurler this week he's expected to play U16 championship tonight, minor tomorrow night, U16 Friday night and minor Saturday night and U16 next Wednesday again. Thats 5 games in 8 days surely that cant be right like plus you have schools training for Dean Ryan & Harty Cup aswell as challenge games in school.

Is there any other club or person agrees with me that its leading to massive player burnout. Injuries in young players is gettin beyond a joke all the damage been done now will lead to severe injuries further down the line.
What kind of county board have we at all?

Maybe its not the county baord you should be blaming, but the clubs. Every year they have a say on what type of championships and competitions we run, but year in, year out, barring a tweek or two every year, they still go for the same broken competitions.

You are right however about the amount of games players are asked to play. there is too many. Something has to change, but who will have the nerve to suggesst the changes that are needed.

The blue blaa

conditioned games wrote: »

That's a bloody disgrace from the county board to run that many games off in an 8 day period. They could easily have spread them through out September and play the semis in early October. The U16's and U18's have been idle for practically all summer due to the county minors.

They could also have played off the U16's while the county minors were playing. There was a similar situation last year when the county board decided to have U16 football and U18 hurling games on at the same day at the same time with a rake of walkovers. Is it Timmy O'Keeffe the county secretary responsible for organising the timing of these games or does someone else put the plan together does anyone know.

I don't know if it's the county secretary doing all the fixtures. Something needs to be done fast it's bad form an its effecting all clubs especially the smaller ones who struggle with numbers

conditioned games

Sliabh gCua1 wrote: »

Maybe its not the county baord you should be blaming, but the clubs. Every year they have a say on what type of championships and competitions we run, but year in, year out, barring a tweek or two every year, they still go for the same broken competitions.

You are right however about the amount of games players are asked to play. there is too many. Something has to change, but who will have the nerve to suggesst the changes that are needed.

The U16 and U18 competitions are not broken, the distribution of games need to be structured better by not trying to get them finished off over an 8 day period. If they played those games off over a 3 week period which they could easily have done there would be no issue.

Annie Oakes

Sliabh gCua1 wrote: »

I think that thinking like this shows whats wrong with the GAA in Waterford amongst the supporters. We have a large amount of people who think that teams must playing at the top level or they are no good. Success at underage level does not always means success at adult level.

I think Galway are a prime example of this. Off the top of my head, their last Senior Hurling All-Ireland win was in 1988. How many minor and under 21 finals have they won since then. Just because you are winning at these levels does not mean further success will follow. A little closer to home I like to think about Stradbally in Football. I know they have won things in underage grades and at primary schools levels down the years, but not as much as some of the other big clubs in the county, yet over the past decade and a half they are the most consistant senior football team in the county.

The above also reminds me of something a County Minor Hurling selector said at a county board meeting over 10 years ago. He stood up and told clubs that they wont be picking any players that had played division three and four hurling at under 14 and 16 levels. When he and his fellow selectors discovered that they were not able to pick a team from players who played division one and the best of division two teams, they discovered that there was better players playing in the lower grades than there was in division one and soon called them in their set up.

Well , my point was NOT to highlight the fact that underage success = adult success, if you took your time to read my post I was merely questioning another users statement of how a club that has not won much in the last few years in the top grade of underage hurling merits them to state that " the underage success of erins own club can hopefully be brought through to the senior set up".

My comment was meant to bring into question how anyone can say competing in the B grade and most of the time not even winning can merit someone to say a club has had "good underage success".

I would actually agree with what you have posted above in that even if a club has had good underage success it can not automatically mean a bright future, but it certainly can help with repleneshing a side or to bring new life into it.

conditioned games

Annie Oakes wrote: »

Well , my point was NOT to highlight the fact that underage success = adult success, if you took your time to read my post I was merely questioning another users statement of how a club that has not won much in the last few years in the top grade of underage hurling merits them to state that " the underage success of erins own club can hopefully be brought through to the senior set up".

My comment was meant to bring into question how anyone can say competing in the B grade and most of the time not even winning can merit someone to say a club has had "good underage success".

So what you are saying is unless a club is winning in the top grade at minor i.e. division A, only that can be considered good underage success. Now you do realize the minor A championship has 8 teams sometimes 7 teams competing in it every year while there are 12 senior clubs and 12 intermediate clubs. How bad a standard of hurling do you think the B and C minor divisions in Waterford are in your opinion?

Annie Oakes

conditioned games wrote: »

So what you are saying is unless a club is winning in the top grade at minor i.e. division A, only that can be considered good underage success. Now you do realize the minor A championship has 8 teams sometimes 7 teams competing in it every year while there are 12 senior clubs and 12 intermediate clubs. How bad a standard of hurling do you think the B and C minor divisions in Waterford are in your opinion?

Not as good as the top division , thats how bad i consider it to be, its that simple.

So what you are saying to me , is that winning a B grade competition can be classed as success? As opposed to competing in an A grade compeition and not winning , but having much more competitive games that will benefit the developing players in the long run, in my eyes you should always try put a team into the A grade rather than simply trying to win titles at a lower grade. thats a very defeatist attitude and the wrong one to take with young developing hurlers

cul beag

The blue blaa wrote: »

I'd like to highlight this one to ye,

For a 15/16 yr old hurler this week he's expected to play U16 championship tonight, minor tomorrow night, U16 Friday night and minor Saturday night and U16 next Wednesday again. Thats 5 games in 8 days surely that cant be right like plus you have schools training for Dean Ryan & Harty Cup aswell as challenge games in school.

Is there any other club or person agrees with me that its leading to massive player burnout. Injuries in young players is gettin beyond a joke all the damage been done now will lead to severe injuries further down the line.
What kind of county board have we at all?

Unfortunately its nothing new. It has been happening for years and it is really the parents who have to shout STOP because if not,as you say,burnout will occur. No thought whatever is put in to this when these fixtures are made.
There has been hugh problems between county minor panels and successful Harty teams in trying to organise panels and training around the schools timetables of matches and training. Add into this the students study time and you have some problem. I feel for you because he will be expected to line out in all these games,play to his maximum,study,and then get the backlash from the trainers and parents when he doesn't perform to his highest standard. I'm sure you will get several examples from not just in this county where this is happening it's just a shame nothing will be done about it.

deisedude

The blue blaa wrote: »

I'd like to highlight this one to ye,

For a 15/16 yr old hurler this week he's expected to play U16 championship tonight, minor tomorrow night, U16 Friday night and minor Saturday night and U16 next Wednesday again. Thats 5 games in 8 days surely that cant be right like plus you have schools training for Dean Ryan & Harty Cup aswell as challenge games in school.

Is there any other club or person agrees with me that its leading to massive player burnout. Injuries in young players is gettin beyond a joke all the damage been done now will lead to severe injuries further down the line.
What kind of county board have we at all?

The amount of young lads needing hips replaced because they are being trained into the ground is shocking and not just in Waterford.

A generation of hurlers are going to end up crippled

conditioned games

Annie Oakes wrote: »

Not as good as the top division , thats how bad i consider it to be, its that simple.

So what you are saying to me , is that winning a B grade competition can be classed as success? As opposed to competing in an A grade compeition and not winning , but having much more competitive games that will benefit the developing players in the long run, in my eyes you should always try put a team into the A grade rather than simply trying to win titles at a lower grade. thats a very defeatist attitude and the wrong one to take with young developing hurlers

Your way off there, if that was the attitude, no improvements would be made in bringing through good players in the county. Forcing a club into a top division that does not have the same quantity of players to choose from will not give them more competitive games and it will also not develop the players in the long run. Competitive games mean playing other teams that are at a similar level where players push themselves to win the game. Playing one sided games does not develop players as they will become disillusioned and give up.


Standard of minor B and C competitions in Waterford has improved greatly over the last 6 years which has led to 22 clubs been represented on last year’s minor county all Ireland team. There have been a good few quality players that will make the senior county team that didn’t play in A divisions at underage such as De Burke from Clashmore or Colin Dunford from Colligan that made their debuts this year. That is not a defeatist attitude. I also think a club with a limited pool of players that is regularly doing well in a minor B division is doing a lot right and that can definitely be considered a success at underage.

cul beag

Too much wrapping up in cotton wool here anyway. The poster that said these games could have been run off during the summer is right instead of being held up due to our county minors. Kilkenny have a senior all Ireland replay in less than 3 weeks time and their playing club championship games this weekend!

Clonmel1000

cul beag wrote: »

Too much wrapping up in cotton wool here anyway. The poster that said these games could have been run off during the summer is right instead of being held up due to our county minors. Kilkenny have a senior all Ireland replay in less than 3 weeks time and their playing club championship games this weekend!

cup beag just to clarify no senior club games taking place in Kilkenny until after the replay.

cul beag

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

cup beag just to clarify no senior club games taking place in Kilkenny until after the replay.

Is there not? It was when listening to Brian Cody's interview on Sunday after the game that he said there were matches fixed for next Sunday and would go ahead. Must have been changed in the meantime. Thanks for letting me know.

Clonmel1000

cul beag wrote: »

Is there not? It was when listening to Brian Cody's interview on Sunday after the game that he said there were matches fixed for next Sunday and would go ahead. Must have been changed in the meantime. Thanks for letting me know.

next Cody will be telling us Kilkenny 'dont do tactics'!!!!!

Slobbery

cul beag wrote: »

Too much wrapping up in cotton wool here anyway. The poster that said these games could have been run off during the summer is right instead of being held up due to our county minors. Kilkenny have a senior all Ireland replay in less than 3 weeks time and their playing club championship games this weekend!

Im all for playing Club Championship and not wrapping guys up in Cotton Wool - but any county that would play a round of the club championship a week after an All-Ireland like we just saw, before an upcoming replay two weeks later, would be certifiable fools and not who we should be taking our example from

Sliabh gCua1

conditioned games wrote: »

The U16 and U18 competitions are not broken, the distribution of games need to be structured better by not trying to get them finished off over an 8 day period. If they played those games off over a 3 week period which they could easily have done there would be no issue.

Never said the Under 16 or minor games were broken, in fact they are quiet good. What needs to be looked at maybe it the timing of games. What is broken however is the structure of our adult games.

Sliabh gCua1

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

cup beag just to clarify no senior club games taking place in Kilkenny until after the replay.

I think it was on yesterday's Morning Ireland i heard that the Kilkenny County Board are going ahead this weekend with games they have planned with God knows how long, and that Inter County players would be expected to play. They also said that games in Tipperary would also go ahead this weekend, but games involving players on the senior panel would not go ahead.

Clonmel1000

I repeat what I have said no senior club games going ahead. I
How many of the KK team come from junior or intermediate clubs? Will be interesting to see if they line out or if the games they are involved in go ahead.

cul beag

So Willie Maher steps down as a selector with the senior team. Does that mean Jim Greene slots in comfortably into the vacant position now?!!

conditioned games

cul beag wrote: »

So Willie Maher steps down as a selector with the senior team. Does that mean Jim Greene slots in comfortably into the vacant position now?!!

Probably, we're now left with the Jim Green, Derek McGrath and Dan Shanahan show. Oh the players must be so proud.

Alf Tupper

cul beag wrote: »

So Willie Maher steps down as a selector with the senior team. Does that mean Jim Greene slots in comfortably into the vacant position now?!!

Oh my God, if that is the case the circle will finally be squared.

It will be like watching Waterford's GAA very own version of Reeling in the Years from the 70's and 80's.

A terrible beauty is born!

Slobbery

Is Frank flannery gone as well so?

between Davy, Mike Ryan and now Derek McGrath we have some turnover of selectors

cul beag

Slobbery wrote: »

Is Frank flannery gone as well so?

between Davy, Mike Ryan and now Derek McGrath we have some turnover of selectors

Hard to know if he will stay. Dan will definitely stay because of the limelight so that leaves us looking for 1 if not 2 selectors.
Any rumours of players retiring? Seamus and Stephen Molumphy maybe? I'm presuming Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran will get a call up seeing as McGrath did so last yr with Austin Gleeson.

hurler on de ditch

Slobbery wrote: »

Im all for playing Club Championship and not wrapping guys up in Cotton Wool - but any county that would play a round of the club championship a week after an All-Ireland like we just saw, before an upcoming replay two weeks later, would be certifiable fools and not who we should be taking our example from

they do it every year ,and it has not harmed them yet

Slobbery

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

they do it every year ,and it has not harmed them yet

Playing the week after an decided All-Ireland is a totally different story.

playing the week after drawing one I am talking about

The Whisperer

Alf Tupper wrote: »

Oh my God, if that is the case the circle will finally be squared.

It will be like watching Waterford's GAA very own version of Reeling in the Years from the 70's and 80's.

A terrible beauty is born!

What do you mean by this? I have noticed your comments on this thread are very negative towards waterford hurling and particularly against the co management structures, is it something personal against somebody you have a problem?

culbaire

The Whisperer wrote: »

What do you mean by this? I have noticed your comments on this thread are very negative towards waterford hurling and particularly against the co management structures, is it something personal against somebody you have a problem?

The current set up in Waterford is a joke. The poster is echoing what 90% of GAA supporters believe.

The Whisperer

culbaire wrote: »

The current set up in Waterford is a joke. The poster is echoing what 90% of GAA supporters believe.

Im not denying that the poster in question echoes a lot of what waterford gaa supporters are feeling at present. What I am questioning is his subjectiveness to the situation, he speaks as if he has some extra reason to feel aggrieved, we are all waterford fans at the end of the day . He might have someone close to him close to the panel for example or something like that, thats what i might be thinking anyway reading some of his comments.

Alf Tupper

The Whisperer wrote: »

Im not denying that the poster in question echoes a lot of what waterford gaa supporters are feeling at present. What I am questioning is his subjectiveness to the situation, he speaks as if he has some extra reason to feel aggrieved, we are all waterford fans at the end of the day . He might have someone close to him close to the panel for example or something like that, thats what i might be thinking anyway reading some of his comments.

For the record I have no one close to me on the panel.

If you're asking me do I know some lads on the panel and their parents then the answer is yes.

I don't think that I feel more aggrieved than anyone else as to what went on last year. The whole set up was a shambles from start to finish. It has been well documented on here the stuff that went on. It was a certainty that a man of Willie Maher's calibre wasn't going to hang around when he wasn't even getting to have say.

It's seeing a year totally wasted with two more to go of underachievement, when we have plenty of players who can complete at the top level, that drive's Waterford supporters to desperation.

cul beag

Maher has been mentioned as part of the new set up with Dublin. I would imagine his mind was made up alot easier when he saw some of the s**t that went on last year. Obviously having little input,coupled with the addition of Mr.Greene to the backroom team i would say he was on the first stage coach out of town!
Stong rumours today of possible retirements and also of players leaving the panel aswell. Then again these things have a habit of snowballing when one piece of bad news emerges from the camp so we might be better off waiting for concrete evidence.