Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Black Suir

No doubt some mention will be made on WLR's Saturday sports programme as to who may be in the running. I wonder if there is a mention, will Matt Keane bring up the name of former Limerick manager Tom Ryan.

The blue blaa

Black Suir wrote: »

Hand on heart, Would the people of Waterford city accept a Kilkenny Man in charge of a Waterford team. I think in the past there would be a better chance of a Mount Sion supporter accepting a Ballygunner man, a Ballygunner man accepting a Mount Sion man, or even some De La Salle man accepting anyone other than a De La Salle man.

Why do you have to make out us City people have a problem with Kilkenny people the real hurling people down here are interested in what's best. I'd personally love to have Fogarty and I'm sure many more like me would agree. And then the bull you go on about about the city clubs, seriously lad what are you on about?? A small minority might agree with you, but I'm sure there would be a small minority would argue if a dungarvan man got it over an Abbeyside man or vice versa these people are not interested in their county if that's their lookin on it, Hopefully some day soon all this bull nonsense talk will stop this creates a divide between east/west or the city as you like to call it, were a tiny county ffs

robopaddy

The blue blaa wrote: »

Why do you have to make out us City people have a problem with Kilkenny people the real hurling people down here are interested in what's best. I'd personally love to have Fogarty and I'm sure many more like me would agree. And then the bull you go on about about the city clubs, seriously lad what are you on about?? A small minority might agree with you, but I'm sure there would be a small minority would argue if a dungarvan man got it over an Abbeyside man or vice versa these people are not interested in their county if that's their lookin on it, Hopefully some day soon all this bull nonsense talk will stop this creates a divide between east/west or the city as you like to call it, were a tiny county ffs

I think his post was just a wind up more than anything else to be honest

Jarjohn

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/waterford-hurling-manager-michael-ryan-1087256-Sep2013/

Interesting choices. Hope it goes well

seananigans

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/deise-to-appoint-committee-to-decide-next-county-manager-243298.html


A lively discussion ensued afterwards. In response to a query from Neil Moore (Abbeyside), Tom Cunningham denied the board had sought the opinions of players but did confirm they met with two player representatives as per GPA protocol. “The players have been hung out to dry,” Moore stated.

De La Salle delegate Seamus Quirke made a passionate defence of the players. “I think that the players have been shabbily treated. It’s in the mandate from Croke Park that you go and seek the opinions of player representatives and it’s only natural that they are going to ask the rest of the players for their opinion. I don’t think any player had disrespect for Michael Ryan. If they give their point of view why should they be harassed and it said they were traitors to the cause? There wouldn’t have been any reaction from the players if ye did your duty. One of the players from my club is very upset. They got a raw deal from the media.”





I don't believe this, if they have a problem with how they are being portrayed, make a f'ing statement

mickotallow

Jarjohn wrote: »

It very clear that DLS could have fielded a much stronger team but chose not to. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. Interesting that's your first post....well as mickotallow anyway

Fail to see what significance the fact that was my first post holds. If people think that DLS could very easily have fielded a stronger team then i'd like them to go through who was missing and see the reasons for their absence. I really think DLS have taken some very unfair criticism over this. People going on social media on Sunday morning to say they got what was coming to them was a nasty and naive opinion.
Anyone who saw the BG game could see that DLS weren't firing on all cylinders so why's it so hard to believe that a weaker DLS team than that couldn't be beaten 2 weeks earlier.

Jarjohn

mickotallow wrote: »

Fail to see what significance the fact that was my first post holds. If people think that DLS could very easily have fielded a stronger team then i'd like them to go through who was missing and see the reasons for their absence. I really think DLS have taken some very unfair criticism over this. People going on social media on Sunday morning to say they got what was coming to them was a nasty and naive opinion.
Anyone who saw the BG game could see that DLS weren't firing on all cylinders so why's it so hard to believe that a weaker DLS team than that couldn't be beaten 2 weeks earlier.

I don't think the criticism was unfair. And after all that went on both the senior and intermediate teams get knocked out. I don't think anyone should be gloating about it but I would have no sympathy for them. Anyway they are out now so lets concentrate on who can win it

robopaddy

seananigans wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/deise-to-appoint-committee-to-decide-next-county-manager-243298.html


A lively discussion ensued afterwards. In response to a query from Neil Moore (Abbeyside), Tom Cunningham denied the board had sought the opinions of players but did confirm they met with two player representatives as per GPA protocol. “The players have been hung out to dry,” Moore stated.

B*****cks. The only person who has been hung out to dry in all this is michael ryan.:mad:

robopaddy

and the madness of this years co. Minor Hurling Championship took over from where it left off last week....

MHC Div3 Cois Bhride 8-16 Clashmore 3-7; Ferrybank 2-19 Tramore 2-8; Portlaw Walk over from Ardmore
Expand

M.H.C. Div2 Clan na Gael 4-10 St Oliver’s 3-13; Erin’s Own 0-15 Passage 1-12; Cappoquin 3-13 Naomh Brid 1-12; Clonea W/O from Brickeys

Thomas Keane ‏@ThomasKeane1973 1h
M.H.C. Div1 Ballygunner 1-21 Dungarvan 0-9:eek: ; De La Salle 2-10 St Carthage’s 2-8; Mount Sion received Walk over from Abbeyside
Expand


what is going on? teams that won last week giving walkovers... star studded dungarvan team hammered out the gate by a team with no one on the co. minor panel... more crazy scorelines

Giveitfong

When Jason Ryan put his name forward for Waterford Senior Hurling Manager two years ago he had James McGarry as his hurling coach. His application was not entertained by the County Board. Now McGarry is part of Brian Cody's backroom team. What does this say about the County Board?

hardybuck

robopaddy wrote: »

and the madness of this years co. Minor Hurling Championship took over from where it left off last week....

MHC Div3 Cois Bhride 8-16 Clashmore 3-7; Ferrybank 2-19 Tramore 2-8; Portlaw Walk over from Ardmore
Expand

M.H.C. Div2 Clan na Gael 4-10 St Oliver’s 3-13; Erin’s Own 0-15 Passage 1-12; Cappoquin 3-13 Naomh Brid 1-12; Clonea W/O from Brickeys

Thomas Keane ‏@ThomasKeane1973 1h
M.H.C. Div1 Ballygunner 1-21 Dungarvan 0-9:eek: ; De La Salle 2-10 St Carthage’s 2-8; Mount Sion received Walk over from Abbeyside
Expand


what is going on? teams that won last week giving walkovers... star studded dungarvan team hammered out the gate by a team with no one on the co. minor panel... more crazy scorelines

Have guys started college? If so the midweek fixtures might be an issue.

chinguetti

Its really funny to read that the DLS delegate commented about the players' getting flak for their vote to oust Ryan. And to give out to the CB is an easy shot but the players do hold some fault in all this mess, along with what the CB said to the players' two reps and to Ryan at separate meetings.

Rightly or wrongly (and we don't know because the players won't comment), it has appeared from the start that the wish to remove Ryan has come from DLS or they have at least supported the move. I've no inside line on any of this but thats the way it looks. We don't know if the players asked/told the CB to wait as they were going to have a full vote among the panel.

robopaddy

Giveitfong wrote: »

When Jason Ryan put his name forward for Waterford Senior Hurling Manager two years ago he had James McGarry as his hurling coach. His application was not entertained by the County Board. Now McGarry is part of Brian Cody's backroom team. What does this say about the County Board?

That they didnt want a footballer manager with zero hurling experience in charge of the co. senior hurling team

hardybuck

chinguetti wrote: »

Its really funny to read that the DLS delegate commented about the players' getting flak for their vote to oust Ryan. And to give out to the CB is an easy shot but the players do hold some fault in all this mess, along with what the CB said to the players' two reps and to Ryan at separate meetings.

Rightly or wrongly (and we don't know because the players won't comment), it has appeared from the start that the wish to remove Ryan has come from DLS or they have at least supported the move. I've no inside line on any of this but thats the way it looks. We don't know if the players asked/told the CB to wait as they were going to have a full vote among the panel.

Do you not agree that the delegate has a point though? Two players were asked to convey the opinions of the squad. How could they convey those opinions without meeting any of them? While 13 attending is a poor show, I understand that those missing at least communicated to the group by phone.

Michael Ryan has not been hung out to dry. He has been given very favourable treatment in the media. He has given his two years, and may still go for one or two more.

The players on the other hand have been slated by professionals in the media. Nobody is giving them an ounce of support. I'm sure there is more to the story which they aren't releasing. In fairness to the guys, they are teachers, students and tradesmen in most cases - and are unlikely to have much experience in this line of business.

Why did this get leaked to the media so soon? How was the information leaked on the Sunday of the minor game? Was the information communicated by the players, Michael Ryan, or did the county board do it?

deiseach

hardybuck wrote: »

Why did this get leaked to the media so soon? How was the information leaked on the Sunday of the minor game? Was the information communicated by the players, Michael Ryan, or did the county board do it?

In an ideal world, how should the news of the meeting have been released?

hardybuck

deiseach wrote: »

In an ideal world, how should the news of the meeting have been released?

Again, I'm not a journalist and don't work in PR. However, am I correct in saying that the county board released this information via Twitter very close to the throw in of the minor game?

In my opinion, this would not be the best approach. Surely the information could have been kept in house until all the county board had clarified exactly what information the players had communicated to them. It was either very, very sloppy timing of a release, or perhaps maliciously done, as if to say, "sure look, the players didn't give a toss about the minors. Why weren't they concentrating on supporting the lads".

By the same token, the players should have sat on the information until they had thought a couple of moves ahead, and prepared a statement.

However, that's just my take on it. I'm aware that the County Board have a Public Relations Officer, who I presume has received adequate training in in the area and knows what she is doing.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

Do you not agree that the delegate has a point though? Two players were asked to convey the opinions of the squad. How could they convey those opinions without meeting any of them? While 13 attending is a poor show, I understand that those missing at least communicated to the group by phone.

Michael Ryan has not been hung out to dry. He has been given very favourable treatment in the media. He has given his two years, and may still go for one or two more.

The players on the other hand have been slated by professionals in the media. Nobody is giving them an ounce of support. I'm sure there is more to the story which they aren't releasing. In fairness to the guys, they are teachers, students and tradesmen in most cases - and are unlikely to have much experience in this line of business.

Why did this get leaked to the media so soon? How was the information leaked on the Sunday of the minor game? Was the information communicated by the players, Michael Ryan, or did the county board do it?

I dont buy into this thing that the players are victims in all of this. They made their decision, they knew what they were doing. Unless they are completely deluded they would have known there would be a fairly serious backlash aswell. They can live with consequnces. They only way they will ever fully win the support of the county back is if they go out next year and do the business on the pitch and prove to everyone that their decision was the correct one.

deiseach

hardybuck wrote: »

Again, I'm not a journalist and don't work in PR. However, am I correct in saying that the county board released this information via Twitter very close to the throw in of the minor game?

In my opinion, this would not be the best approach. Surely the information could have been kept in house until all the county board had clarified exactly what information the players had communicated to them. It was either very, very sloppy timing of a release, or perhaps maliciously done, as if to say, "sure look, the players didn't give a toss about the minors. Why weren't they concentrating on supporting the lads".

By the same token, the players should have sat on the information until they had thought a couple of moves ahead, and prepared a statement.

However, that's just my take on it. I'm aware that the County Board have a Public Relations Officer, who I presume has received adequate training in in the area and knows what she is doing.

There's no chance of any of this happening. All it takes is one person to mention it to a friend who puts it on Twitter and boom! Rather than trying to manage the flow of news, it's better to not do things that look awful in the first place, like having a meeting on the morning there's a big match in Dublin with less than half the squad present.

chinguetti

In this sorry mess, everyone has a point until we hear the full story but when the players have or are losing the support of the fans, it does seem somewhat odd that the club where the further manager has been spoken of coming from, send a delegate out to a CB meeting to voice support for the players, it does have to raise a flag.

The players may have had to have a rushed meeting on the Sunday (which Ryan stated he knew about on the Thursday before) as the CB said they were going to reappoint Ryan but they haven't given their background to whats gone on so we don't know why they rushed a meeting where more than half weren't at it.

Surely to God, one of them out of 30/35 has done some part of a college course that included some bit of media training? And if not and regardless of what job a player has, they have seen enough times that you need to be media savvy if you have a problem with a manager. Didn't the Kildare players release a statement through the GPA the other week when McGeeney was voted out? What has stopped the Waterford players from doing this? Isn't that what the GPA is meant to do for players, to represent them?

The fact that nothing has been said by the players after 6 weeks would show to me, an outsider, that the players are divided. As Ryan gave one interview and thereafter, said nothing, the players will look the villians in this one.

hardybuck

deiseach wrote: »

There's no chance of any of this happening. All it takes is one person to mention it to a friend who puts it on Twitter and boom! Rather than trying to manage the flow of news, it's better to not do things that look awful in the first place, like having a meeting on the morning there's a big match in Dublin with less than half the squad present.

The sanctity of the dressing room is absolutely vital. Much of what goes on inside there should and does not ever come out.

If all involved in the Waterford setup couldn't sit on that information for 24 hours without leaks, then we've got big problems.

hardybuck

chinguetti wrote: »

In this sorry mess, everyone has a point until we hear the full story but when the players have or are losing the support of the fans, it does seem somewhat odd that the club where the further manager has been spoken of coming from, send a delegate out to a CB meeting to voice support for the players, it does have to raise a flag.

Why would the DLS club want to lose their manager? And be behind moves to get rid of their last club manager, and another former manager who is a selector?

Seamus Quirke is a fairly vocal delegate, and was part of the committee that was formed to review Davy Fitzgerald's position. One DLS player - John Mullane, was very upset in being linked to this whole affair, and probably felt a duty to speak out about it.

No mention of the Abbeyside delegate's comments? Have Abbeyside anything to do with this!?

deiseach

hardybuck wrote: »

The sanctity of the dressing room is absolutely vital. Much of what goes on inside there should and does not ever come out.

If all involved in the Waterford setup couldn't sit on that information for 24 hours without leaks, then we've got big problems.

I think you are overstating the 'sanctity of the dressing room'. This isn't cabinet confidentiality, there's no obligation on players to act collectively. I would have thought that with the best will in the world it would be very hard to keep something like this under wraps for 24 hours. And besides, no amount of spin can change the manner in which the meeting was staged.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

No mention of the Abbeyside delegate's comments? Have Abbeyside anything to do with this!?

no club is behind anything. certain co. board delegates might be close to certain players from their club and probably not happy with how they have been portrayed. Each looking after their own corner wouldnt read anything into it

hardybuck

robopaddy wrote: »

no club is behind anything. certain co. board delegates might be close to certain players from their club and probably not happy with how they have been portrayed. Each looking after their own corner wouldnt read anything into it

I agree. With the amount of devision, rumours and in fighting how can a Waterford manager ever be expected to prosper!?

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

I agree. With the amount of devision, rumours and in fighting how can a Waterford manager ever be expected to prosper!?

agreed 100%, thats why I think an outside manager is the way to go. There are no axes to grind with anyone.

We have proved again that we are not open-minded enough to respect an internal manager in this county. Were too concerned with who hes related to, what part of the county hes from, who his acquaintances are and even what type of accent he has. Its relentless really

deiseach

robopaddy wrote: »

agreed 100%, thats why I think an outside manager is the way to go. There are no axes to grind with anyone.

We have proved again that we are not open-minded enough to respect an internal manager in this county. Were too concerned with who hes related to, what part of the county hes from, who his acquaintances are and even what type of accent he has. Its relentless really

I'm not convinced this is true. There isn't any outstanding candidate in the county, no JBM around whom to rally. If there were, I'd like to think people would. It's possible though that I'm just not willing to accept that you might be right

Giveitfong

As reported by Phil Fanning in the News & Star a few weeks ago, the players' meeting was held at the request of the county board to ascertain the players' view on the reappointment of Michael Ryan. This occurred after Ryan had been told by the county chairman that the feedback from the players' representatives had been negative. Ryan then did his own survey of some of the players which he said indicated a majority supported his reappointment. Whatever about the timing of the meeting, it was reasonable of the county board to seek a meeting where the views of all members of the panel could be ascertained. The fact that only 12 or so players attended the meeting in person is of little relevance - most of the other panel members were contacted by phone at the meeting with 30 in all reporting in, of whom a decisive majority said they wanted a change of management.

According to Fanning, Noel Connors contacted Michael Ryan with the result of the poll, he then contacted county secretary Timmy O'Keeffe to tell him he was withdrawing his candidature, and O'Keeffe immediately contacted county PRO Emer Barry to release a statement to this effect. The fault for the unfortunate timing of the statement therefore lies entirely with O'Keeffe, if Fanning's account is accurate. There is no reason why the players should have issued a statement of their own after the meeting - they were only doing what they had been requested to do. There was no requirement on them to explain the basis of their decision. It seems to me that the procedures followed were quite reasonable, although the timing could have been better.

By the way, what do people think about the appointment of Stephen Frampton and James Murray to the committee to examine applications for the manager's position? I would have preferred if the committee had been asked to take a more proactive role in the search for a new manager, as was done in Limerick after the Justin McCarthy fiasco, and which appears to have worked very well for them.

Mountainlad

If what I've heard is true about Limerick's process for getting their next manager is true, I am greatly concerned and also think they are far from role models in appointing new managers.

robopaddy

Giveitfong wrote: »

Stephen Frampton and James Murray to the committee to examine applications for the manager's position? I would have preferred if the committee had been asked to take a more proactive role in the search for a new manager, as was done in Limerick after the Justin McCarthy fiasco, and which appears to have worked very well for them.

I think its not a bad idea as long as they have a say and their not just there to dispel theories that the new manager is a co. board man etc. Both soldiered in the county colours with distinction for many years and who better to judge on whats best for Waterford sneior hurlers? 6 seems like a lot of people I dont see the point and I dont think theres a need for the Co. Board chairman to be on the comittee, leave it to the experts.

Deise Vu

robopaddy wrote: »

I think its not a bad idea as long as they have a say and their not just there to dispel theories that the new manager is a co. board man etc. Both soldiered in the county colours with distinction for many years and who better to judge on whats best for Waterford sneior hurlers? 6 seems like a lot of people I dont see the point and I dont think theres a need for the Co. Board chairman to be on the comittee, leave it to the experts.

I don't know James Murray but I can't see Stephen Frampton being anyone's fallguy. However, I probably would have preferred Fergal Hartley given that he is a professional headhunter.