Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

cul beag

Mountainlad wrote: »

Are we really gonna have this again? DLS have lost in the quarters and semis the last two years, and to teams that didn't even go on to win the championship.

Since when did Dungarvan earn this right to be automatically on another level to the other 9 teams in the championship? They possibly are the second/third best team on show this year and did make the final in 2012 but they really aren't that far ahead of a few teams below them.

Obviously Mount Sion are being pretty badly disrespected in your post too. They played a good brand of hurling and would expect them to remain competitive next year.


There really isn't that much between a decent amount of teams and it all really depends on the setup they have that year and things you can't predict like injuries. Look at Passage last year as the prime example of a team well organized that believe in what they are trying to achieve being successful, and they weren't far from pipping Dungarvan at the post this year despite only having 14 men for most of the second half.


I look at Ballygunner and their record and there is no doubt they are the leading team in the County, and backed up by 4 u21 titles in a row. But when you look at their personnel, and including the young lads I really don't view them as a super power that have a gulf in class between them and the rest. So sick of people giving out about the Senior championship, there's far more right with it then quite a number of other championship formats in rival counties. It's after that where the problems are.

Mt Sion being left out was a genuine mistake i thought i had included them in my previous post. I have no problem with the championship format but i have with the standard of hurling in it. There's a difference.

cul beag

MUFC91CS wrote: »

Do you mind me asking why you left out MS? They were semi finalists in 2012 and 2013 losing to the DLS and Passage who went on to win it and they were beaten in the final this year. Fair enough they were poor in the final but out of the 15 that started on Sunday I think only four of them were over 30. They have a relatively young team.

Apologies i thought i had Mt sIon included in my post. Nothing intentionally meant by excluding them as i know they're building for the future.

Twiceasnice97

is there any truth in the speculation that the bennetts father is going in to the waterford senior set up?

Mountainlad

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

is there any truth in the speculation that the bennetts father is going in to the waterford senior set up?

He was there under Davy in 2008 and 2009, and possibly after though I think he may have been replace by Maurice Geary.

cul beag

Mountainlad wrote: »

He was there under Davy in 2008 and 2009, and possibly after though I think he may have been replace by Maurice Geary.

Other way around he came in after Maurice Geary. Wasn't he involved for the Wexford game in Nolan Park earlier this year so nothing would surprise me.

cul beag

Michael Ryan taking over the Westmeath senior hurlers. Best of luck to him,the travelling to Mullingar alone will be no joke.

Mountainlad

cul beag wrote: »

Michael Ryan taking over the Westmeath senior hurlers. Best of luck to him,the travelling to Mullingar alone will be no joke.

Jaysus. No doubt he has a passion for being involved with teams.

O Riain

Mountainlad wrote: »

Jaysus. No doubt he has a passion for being involved with teams.

We did not even get a single All Star Nomination this year. Maybe we should have allowed him to have a passion for our team rather then giving him the boot..

hardybuck

O Riain wrote: »

We did not even get a single All Star Nomination this year. Maybe we should have allowed him to have a passion for our team rather then giving him the boot..

Stop. Now.

O Riain

hardybuck wrote: »

Stop. Now.

Can of worms opened?

I'm not one of those guys who is a die hard for Michael Ryan but jesus, not even one nomination.

We have class players. When not one of them gets a nomination you know the training is not right. It's as simple as that.

hardybuck

O Riain wrote: »

Can of worms opened?

I'm not one of those guys who is a die hard for Michael Ryan but jesus, not even one nomination.

We have class players. When not one of them gets a nomination you know the training is not right. It's as simple as that.

It's just boring and a waste of time. As is the potential line of discussion which is likely to follow.

If you took our 15 and benchmarked it against this years AI finalists, we're a fair bit off. If you looked at the squad, probably further off.

dzilla

didn't get an all star nomination because we are shocking and gone backwards under McGrath the sooner he is gone the better.

hardybuck

dzilla wrote: »

didn't get an all star nomination because we are shocking and gone backwards under McGrath the sooner he is gone the better.

Looking at the current squad, being really objective here, how many lads do you think are All Star quality? I would say a maximum of 5 if everything was going well.

Ropaire

hardybuck wrote: »

Looking at the current squad, being really objective here, how many lads do you think are All Star quality? I would say a maximum of 5 if everything was going well.

There's also the part where we don't play close to an orthodox system, there's no all star for being one of two sweepers on a team. It would have been impossible to nominate a corner forward cos we didn't have any of those.

O Riain

How long is it since we have not won a nomination?

hardybuck

Ropaire wrote: »

There's also the part where we don't play close to an orthodox system, there's no all star for being one of two sweepers on a team. It would have been impossible to nominate a corner forward cos we didn't have any of those.

Clare didn't play an orthodox system last year. They won the All Ireland and 7 All Stars.

3ships

SOK, T Bourke, C Dunford could have been in ahead of the Dublin lads and Brian Carroll but no real complaints.

How far have we slipped!!

Mullane was massive loss obviously from a couple of years back.
Former All stars on team not near their previous level.
Injury lists longer than any other hurling county.
Less funding than any other hurling county.
Poorly supported teams (if the Senior and U21 weren't to peoples liking why wasn't there more support present for our All Ireland Champion minor team).

Looking at other hurling counties:

Kilkenny are not gone anywhere and are better than 98 and 04 when they beat our great teams.
Tipp are better over the last 5 years than anytime since the Nicky English days.
Clare an Limerick are at a 20 year high and maybe even better than that.
Galway and Cork got closer to winning an All Ireland in the last 3 years than we have since 63.
Dublin are better now than anytime in living memory
Wexford have returned to the top table for the first time in a decade.
(I'm sure Westmeath, like Laois, will improve too)

So the bar has been severely raised while we have been dropping off steadily for 3/4 years.

Is there hope YES, we have the best panel/extened panel we EVER had.
Whether or not this regime can mould a team capable of winning trophies we sould find out for sure next year.

The following team didn't even play the last Championship game

---

Iggy


S McNulty-B Coughlan-S Daniels


J Nagle

---

R Foley

---

Ph Mahony

---

E Barrett-R Barry


B O Halloran-M Shan-D Breathnach


J Barron----R Donnelly-B O Sullivan

Add in the possible solid players from the Club scene like Stephen Roche and Gavin Crotty, maybe David Sullivan and Eoin Madigan and a whole host of players still U21 which are too many to mention. The talent is there!!

Sure we may need Liam Sheedy, A modern Stadium, a progressive Co Board and a tax dodging Suger Daddy but we have some great players, most yet to fulfill their potential and thats what people should support.

culbaire

cul beag wrote: »

Michael Ryan taking over the Westmeath senior hurlers. Best of luck to him,the travelling to Mullingar alone will be no joke.

Good luck to Michael. He did a great job at Waterford in spite of the critics like Mullane.

culbaire

3ships wrote: »

SOK, T Bourke, C Dunford could have been in ahead of the Dublin lads and Brian Carroll but no real complaints.

How far have we slipped!!

Mullane was massive loss obviously from a couple of years back.
Former All stars on team not near their previous level.
Injury lists longer than any other hurling county.
Less funding than any other hurling county.
Poorly supported teams (if the Senior and U21 weren't to peoples liking why wasn't there more support present for our All Ireland Champion minor team).

Looking at other hurling counties:

Kilkenny are not gone anywhere and are better than 98 and 04 when they beat our great teams.
Tipp are better over the last 5 years than anytime since the Nicky English days.
Clare an Limerick are at a 20 year high and maybe even better than that.
Galway and Cork got closer to winning an All Ireland in the last 3 years than we have since 63.
Dublin are better now than anytime in living memory
Wexford have returned to the top table for the first time in a decade.
(I'm sure Westmeath, like Laois, will improve too)

So the bar has been severely raised while we have been dropping off steadily for 3/4 years.

Is there hope YES, we have the best panel/extened panel we EVER had.
Whether or not this regime can mould a team capable of winning trophies we sould find out for sure next year.

The following team didn't even play the last Championship game

---

Iggy


S McNulty-B Coughlan-S Daniels


J Nagle

---

R Foley

---

Ph Mahony

---

E Barrett-R Barry


B O Halloran-M Shan-D Breathnach


J Barron----R Donnelly-B O Sullivan

Add in the possible solid players from the Club scene like Stephen Roche and Gavin Crotty, maybe David Sullivan and Eoin Madigan and a whole host of players still U21 which are too many to mention. The talent is there!!

Sure we may need Liam Sheedy, A modern Stadium, a progressive Co Board and a tax dodging Suger Daddy but we have some great players, most yet to fulfill their potential and thats what people should support.

The problem is that a lot of players are on the verge of walking away. They are completely disillusioned with the present set up. The last straw is to listen to excuses being made in advance of the National Hurling League. What a defeatist attitude!! Would agree that SOK, T Bourke, C Dunford were worthy of nominations.
This management team has been trying to ape systems used in other counties. It has no philosophy of hurling. It is incapable of using a style of hurling which will bring out the best in our players. It has failed to address skill deficits in quite a few of the players. It has failed to address a fitness deficit. Some players are left on the team no matter how poorly they are playing. This is a sure sign of weak management. Putting it bluntly there is a lack of expertise to deal with the likes of Kilkenny and Tipperary.

hardybuck

Vastly enthusiastic posts, followed by more negative/realistic posts about the team's prospects, to be eventually repeated in 12 months time after a frustrating season.

That's the only thing which seems to be consistent.

Jarjohn

A lot of players named in that 15 above imo are solid club players full stop and have long way to go solid intercounty standard. To say we have the strongest panel/extended panel ever is baffling. 7-10 years ago we had a savage panel. A few good underage teams is promising but their development from 18 to 21 years is vital. Over trained and overplayed = burnout + injuries. The lack of on field leaders left also worries me. Have a look at the 2007 Munster winning team:
Clinton Hennessy; Eoin Murphy, Declan Prendergast, Aidan Kearney; Tony Browne, Ken McGrath, Jack Kennedy; Kevin Moran, Michael Walsh (Captain); Dan Shanahan, Eoin Kelly, Stephen Molumphy; John Mullane, Seamus Prendergast, Paul Flynn

Now that was close on our strongest 15 ever

cul beag

SOKY is probably the only one deserving of a nomination. Tadgh was consistent during the league and did fine against Cork in the drawn game but was below par in the replay and also against Wexford.Dunford had a good 15 mins against Wexford but despite his consistent efforts i didn't think he deserved a nomination.
Just shows how far back we're gone when we're on here discussing nominations instead of potential all stars.
The belief in the current set up isn't there by either players or supporters and that's why there's so much doom and gloom around the place. These young players need leadership,someone that they'll respect and look up to and someone that when they say something won't do another.It boils down to the fact that you can't have one rule for one and one rule for another. Players aren't fools and that's why its in a mess. Mr.Cody is ruthless,determined that no player is bigger than the team and rules accordingly,its a blueprint that could be copied in Waterford instead of copying systems that are foreign to our natural game. But there's no point in going on about it here because we're left with the mess for at least another year so god help who comes in to pick up the pieces.
We'll get a few wins in the league maybe even catch Limerick and Wexford on a bad day but lets be realistic here,can anyone see where our next Munster championship victory is going to come from? I hope im wrong but its not looking anyway positive at the moment.

O Riain

A lot of people are saying there is a lot of unhappiness in the senior hurling camp.

Is this actually true?

Mountainlad

I think Colin Dunford should have been nominated if Liam Ryan was but then Liam Og McGovern should have been ahead of the two of them.

Don't think all star nominations really make that much of a difference, Offaly got one and they are chronic. I'd be more concerned with the performance over the year which wasn't good.

Culbaire, can you give us the quotes from McGrath where he made excuses before the year started? Second request

KevIRL

Waterford v cork in a munster semi final

Clare v limerick with winners playing tipp on other side of the draw

jive

All this talk of a 'great panel' is good but I'm a negative bastard and what I see is a bunch of players of questionable quality at intercounty level being easily replaced by others of a similar standard. There are very few players in our strongest 15 that if not playing you could say "jesus, we really missed him" like you would have said about Ken McGrath, John Mullane, Tony Browne, Brick and Dan Shanahan a few years ago (Brick still a top player although not as important to us this year as he was the previous few).

We have an awful lot of good players but very few, if any, great players. If you played the starting 15 against the second 15 there probably wouldn't be a whole lot between the two teams. Hopefully a few of the younger lads develop and we have a great team and panel but I can't see us leap frogging any of the teams ahead of us any time soon.

jive

KevIRL wrote: »

Waterford v cork in a munster semi final

Clare v limerick with winners playing tipp on other side of the draw

Bout as good a draw as you could ask for. Can't see us beating Cork but tis many moons away at this stage and maybe we'll find some form between now and the championship.

KevIRL

Waterford v tipp in the football winners play cork

Mountainlad

jive wrote: »

Bout as good a draw as you could ask for. Can't see us beating Cork but tis many moons away at this stage and maybe we'll find some form between now and the championship.

Best possible draw really. We weren't half as good this year but should have beat them the first day. If we managed to win we'd be into a Munster final and good experience for the young lads.

KevIRL

Mountainlad wrote: »

Best possible draw really. We weren't half as good this year but should have beat them the first day. If we managed to win we'd be into a Munster final and good experience for the young lads.

Its a big if alright, but also the bonus of an AI QF place at a minimum