Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Giveitfong

According to Colm Keys in today’s Independent, Shane Walsh has retired and Stephen Molumphy is expected to do the same. Liam Lawlor, Richie Foley, Jamie Nagle, Ray Barry, Killian Fitzgerald and Stephen Roche have been dropped with Shane Bennett, Tom Devine, Mark O'Brien, DJ Foran, Michael Kearney and Cormac Curran all being brought in from last year’s minor team. According to Keys, these will join former minor colleagues Austin Gleeson, Stephen Bennett and Patrick Curran, “who already graduated in Derek McGrath's first year in charge”. However, Patrick Curran was not on this year’s senior panel (he was still a minor) and, according to reports, will not be making himself available for the senior panel next year.

As far as I know, Shane Bennett is still attending Blackwater Community School and doing the Leaving Certificate next year, so he is hardly going to be available for the senior panel either. I also believe that Ray Barry had already indicated that he is going abroad next summer, so it may not be accurate to say that he was dropped. I have also heard suggestions that other members of the current panel intend going abroad next year.

So you would wonder how accurate Keys’s report is. It would be good to see DJ Foran on the panel – the best ball-winning forward in the county. Tom Devine has also been showing up well as a forward with Modeligo (admittedly at junior level).

cul beag

Slobbery wrote: »

Look whatever - I am just adding to two of you to my ignore list

Well slobs just checking in with you to see how you're doing? Have you read today's paper? Think they're a few weeks late with the news what do you think? Stick with me baby we're going places,just you and me!!
Tell you what we'll do,you keep coming up with these hair brained championship schemes and Il keep looking for attention on here and we'll all be one happy family then! And then you won't have to have your "ignored list" to deal with anymore! So when I call to your house to come out to play don't be sulking now,make sure to bring out your toys and Il help you throw them out of the pram........hehehehehehe

cul beag

For the record Brian O Halloran hasn't made himself available to the panel either.High risk strategy from McGrath as he's going for all youth but on paper there's serious potential in the squad but what game plan/style of hurling will he use to get the best out of them because if he goes with the same s**t as this year then if will be another wasted yr.
Very harsh on Nagle,one bad game and thrown on the scrap heap.

Deise Hurler

Time for Tom to show some leadership and give McGrath the P45. His whole set up has gone beyond a farce. It's all well bringing in youth but experience is needed too.

Deise Hurler

Also notice De La Salle school Harty team were knocked out of the competition yesterday with only 2 games played and 2 losses. What's going on there. They haven't been competitive in years, which for a school of over 1000 boys is poor.

deisedude

Really worrying for the Senior Hurlers next year. McGrath needs armbands he is so out of his depth

The Whisperer

Giveitfong wrote: »

According to Colm Keys in today’s Independent, Shane Walsh has retired and Stephen Molumphy is expected to do the same. Liam Lawlor, Richie Foley, Jamie Nagle, Ray Barry, Killian Fitzgerald and Stephen Roche have been dropped with Shane Bennett, Tom Devine, Mark O'Brien, DJ Foran, Michael Kearney and Cormac Curran all being brought in from last year’s minor team. According to Keys, these will join former minor colleagues Austin Gleeson, Stephen Bennett and Patrick Curran, “who already graduated in Derek McGrath's first year in charge”. However, Patrick Curran was not on this year’s senior panel (he was still a minor) and, according to reports, will not be making himself available for the senior panel next year.

As far as I know, Shane Bennett is still attending Blackwater Community School and doing the Leaving Certificate next year, so he is hardly going to be available for the senior panel either. I also believe that Ray Barry had already indicated that he is going abroad next summer, so it may not be accurate to say that he was dropped. I have also heard suggestions that other members of the current panel intend going abroad next year.

So you would wonder how accurate Keys’s report is. It would be good to see DJ Foran on the panel – the best ball-winning forward in the county. Tom Devine has also been showing up well as a forward with Modeligo (admittedly at junior level).

I am shocked and in dis-belief if the above is true. We are genuinely going backwards under this management set up if the above cull of players is true. Jamie Nagle, Richie Foley Liam Lawlor.. all good hurlers with genuine expererience of playing at top level, without doubt all worthy of a place on the panel..Killian Fitzgerald was outstanding anytime passage played this year, Ray barry admittley not on form for his club this summer but still a nice hurler. I have also heard rumours of 3/4 current senior panelists not mentioned who are planning on travelling next summer (who can blame them), so with all this we are basically left with a whole new squad of players. I for one am not even sure we can rely on young players and too many of them on a team will be crazy.

3ships

In budget week a some profit but a lot of loss. Moodys will be downgading Waterford's prospects for sure. Actually a lot of the cull of the panel could be down to money. We can hardly have 50 lads eating dinners after training in December.


This is a guess of Derek McGraths team for the league. Ballygunner's potential club progress will have a fair impact on it. Thoughts on panel follow..........


SOK
Tde B
Barry Coughlan
N Connors
S Fives
Brick
Ph Mahony
Fives
Moran
A Gleeson
Pa Mahony
SOS
C Dunford
J Dillon
B O Sullivan


Panel looking ahead
Iggy S Barry in goals
Hopefully Daniels, Bennett and Shan will be ok and fit (and Dara Fives!!)
Jamie Barron and Shane McNulty and Paudie Prender serious possible starters
Donie Breathnach has still to get a proper chance
E Barrett Gav Obrien Martin O Neill Ryan Donnelly are others.



INS


Tom Devine and DJ Foran are excellent additions.
Micky Kearney has prospects but behind a couple of others for a jersey.
Cormac Curran has to be looked at in fairness with Seamus gone.
Shane Bennett still in school surely wont be playing Harty Cup and National League in one season – thats crazy.
Mark O Brien was on the bench for a couple of league games last year




OUT
Shane Walsh (like Seamus) was retiring anyway.
Hopefully Molumphy will stay (and Brick!!)
Maybe a mid season re think on Lawlor like last year as well as Nagle and Foley
In truth Stephen Roche and Killian Fitz are fringe players.
Brian O Halloran and Ray Barry absence would be personnel biggest disapointments (but not Dereks!!).

Some seriously disapointing losses there if thats the case.





So all in all its a panel totaling in the mid thirties. There maybe (guesswork only) some others like Shane Roche, Keiran Power, Michael Harney, Gavin Crotty, Eoin Madigan, David O Sullivan to be looked at especially as players will be playing Fitzgibbon too.



In reality you can't play everyone but if the panel is already picked who needs selectors!!

Slobbery

Too much is being expected of that All Ireland winning Minor team, bringing them all on like that in Bulk, what are the chances of even half of them making it?

the reality is that the guys that do make it - now 20 years old - will more than likely be in the 24-28 age bracket before we are contending again. it will take until Austin Gleeson is a seasoned inter county player like Brick, leading the team.

Its expecting an awful lot of these lads to become men very fast - they are being thrown in at the deep end and not all will survive it

Mountainlad

Anyone want to pm me who else they heard is thinking of travelling?

conditioned games

Deise Hurler wrote: »

Also notice De La Salle school Harty team were knocked out of the competition yesterday with only 2 games played and 2 losses. What's going on there. They haven't been competitive in years, which for a school of over 1000 boys is poor.

Given the catchment area De La School secondary school captures which can take in hurlers from Mooncoin, Sliverue, Kilmacow, De La Salle, Ballygunner, Passage and Erins Own you would expect them to be doing far better in the harty cup over the last 6 years. With a population over 1,200 compared to 750 in Ard Scoil Ris the results they are getting are very poor and I wonder Derek McGrath been a teacher and coach there is he holding them back as well.

Disappointing to hear we are losing so many players with experience for next year, most of which are been replaced with boys that are not fully developed yet for inter county hurling. Most of those dropped or leaving were playing very well the year before Derek came in with Nagel playing his best hurling in 2013, Lawlor was our best full back since Cullinane and never panicked under pressure, Richie Foley played very well up in Thurles against Kilkenny in the championship, Ray Barry one of our most promising young hurlers coming through scoring 1.03 off the bench against Kilkenny while Molumphy wasn’t given much game time last year and looks like won’t be in Dereks plans for next year either.

I think if you wrote a script of how bad an influence Derek could be for Waterford hurling you could not have come up with worse than all that has gone on in the past year. Negative hurling, personal favorites on the team, poor training techniques, players walking away or been dropped. I think selectors Frank Flannery and William Maher see what is going on and made the right decision to walk away from this mess.

TheScoringGoal

Gavin Crotty has made himself unavailable for the past few years unfortunately. He's a player I think could add something. To me Mikey Kearney has been one of the outstanding forwards in the club championship for the past 2 years. Next year may be too soon but he's a great prospect. In terms of playing time next year I'd imagine DJ Foran will get a chance as there are a lack of ball winners in our forward line, particularly if Austin Gleeson moves back as Derek McGrath suggested on Wlr. Stephen Bennett would be another so long as the guy finally gets some luck with an injury free run.

TheScoringGoal

Gavin Crotty has made himself unavailable for the past few years unfortunately. He's a player I think could add something. To me Mikey Kearney has been one of the outstanding forwards in the club championship for the past 2 years. Next year may be too soon but he's a great prospect. In terms of playing time next year I'd imagine DJ Foran will get a chance as there are a lack of ball winners in our forward line, particularly if Austin Gleeson moves back as Derek McGrath suggested on Wlr. Stephen Bennett would be another so long as the guy finally gets some luck with an injury free run.

Mountainlad

If Austin Gleeson was to move back, surely Tadhg Bourke is going to be tried at full back?

Though I could see that not lasting, the forwards need Gleeson more than the backs.

coopdog85

The players wanted him, the players got him. No sympathy for the lads that were part of the coup to get rid of the previous manager, I do have sympathy for the newer lads on the panel who have to put up with what's going on.

Every other county is heading in the right direction with regards to training, preparation & general professional carry on but Waterford are gone backwards. Shocking situation we find ourselves in. All the good work of the likes of Gerald & Justin McCarthy & Davy Fitz has been basically binned by the current management.

Orizio

Who is going to win ball if Gleeson is at 6...?

cul beag

Darren Duggan is being added as 3rd choice keeper and Seanie Barry is deemed surplus to requirements. Its obvious Dan has a big say in the selection process if his own clubmate is not being considered! But then if rumours are to be believed things are anything but good in that club at the moment so anything is possible!
With all the culling of older/experienced players isn't it amazing Shane Sullivan has still made the cut? Then that was always going to happen wasn't it!
Finally we're led to believe that Fintan O Connor(Cappoquin trainer) is the 3rd selector and will also become u21 manager.

homeofhurling

i hear a rumour that Anthony Daly could be the new waterford manger soon.

HillFarmer

Feel sorry for the lads that were dropped, particularly Nagle and Foley, if that is the case.

But on the other hand we were never going to win an All Ireland with the old guys, maybe clean sweep is whats needed.
I don't feel as negative as other posters here tbh, maybe Im wrong.

Slobbery

homeofhurling wrote: »

i hear a rumour that Anthony Daly could be the new waterford manger soon.

Maybe if he accepts Monopoly Money

MUFC91CS

HillFarmer wrote: »

Feel sorry for the lads that were dropped, particularly Nagle and Foley, if that is the case.

But on the other hand we were never going to win an All Ireland with the old guys, maybe clean sweep is whats needed.
I don't feel as negative as other posters here tbh, maybe Im wrong.

I agree with this here and I'm actually optimistic about move. Of course I feel sorry for some of the lads that were dropped but in fairness they were not at much anyway. I'd rather have 19 or 20yos with potential on the bench and getting experience with the county panel as opposed to fellas of 28, 29 who are only average IC hurlers.

I'm by no way a fan of McGrath or his appointment but regardless of what he does it appears he is going to be slated here. People need to be realistic that we are probably ranked 5th out of the 5 hurling counties in Munstrer and this is the case regardless of whether the likes of Lawlor, Foley and Nagle are on the panel or not.

culbaire

HillFarmer wrote: »

Feel sorry for the lads that were dropped, particularly Nagle and Foley, if that is the case.

But on the other hand we were never going to win an All Ireland with the old guys, maybe clean sweep is whats needed.
I don't feel as negative as other posters here tbh, maybe Im wrong.

Well I do. The reality is that Derek McGrath lacks creativity as a manager and has no real philosophy of hurling. He is trying to ape other counties. This is obvious from the negative style of hurling which Waterford played last year.
What we have got now is a fine mess. Hopefully the likes of John Mullane is happy with the shambles which is now unfolding.

culbaire

coopdog85 wrote: »

The players wanted him, the players got him. No sympathy for the lads that were part of the coup to get rid of the previous manager, I do have sympathy for the newer lads on the panel who have to put up with what's going on.

Every other county is heading in the right direction with regards to training, preparation & general professional carry on but Waterford are gone backwards. Shocking situation we find ourselves in. All the good work of the likes of Gerald & Justin McCarthy & Davy Fitz has been basically binned by the current management.

In one year all the good work has been undone.

MUFC91CS

culbaire wrote: »

Well I do. The reality is that Derek McGrath lacks creativity as a manager and has no real philosophy of hurling. He is trying to ape other counties. This is obvious from the negative style of hurling which Waterford played last year.
What we have got now is a fine mess. Hopefully the likes of John Mullane is happy with the shambles which is now unfolding.

Sorry now but what kind of hurling would you like to see the team play that hasn't been played by another county before as I assume that your making a reference to Waterford trying to play like Clare last year?

Once again I didn't want McGrath to picked as manager either but you managed to contradict yourself twice in the last post. A negative (defensive) style of hurling is a philosphy regardless of whether you agree with it or whether it works or not. How creative do you expect him to be? Reverting back to 15 vs 15. Surely a loaded a back line and withdrawing forwards is more creative than playing 15 vs 15.

Fireball07

Giveitfong wrote: »

According to Colm Keys in today’s Independent, Shane Walsh has retired and Stephen Molumphy is expected to do the same. Liam Lawlor, Richie Foley, Jamie Nagle, Ray Barry, Killian Fitzgerald and Stephen Roche have been dropped with Shane Bennett, Tom Devine, Mark O'Brien, DJ Foran, Michael Kearney and Cormac Curran all being brought in from last year’s minor team. According to Keys, these will join former minor colleagues Austin Gleeson, Stephen Bennett and Patrick Curran, “who already graduated in Derek McGrath's first year in charge”. However, Patrick Curran was not on this year’s senior panel (he was still a minor) and, according to reports, will not be making himself available for the senior panel next year.

As far as I know, Shane Bennett is still attending Blackwater Community School and doing the Leaving Certificate next year, so he is hardly going to be available for the senior panel either. I also believe that Ray Barry had already indicated that he is going abroad next summer, so it may not be accurate to say that he was dropped. I have also heard suggestions that other members of the current panel intend going abroad next year.

So you would wonder how accurate Keys’s report is. It would be good to see DJ Foran on the panel – the best ball-winning forward in the county. Tom Devine has also been showing up well as a forward with Modeligo (admittedly at junior level).

Is this likely to be true?

The loss of Walsh & Molumpy wouldn't be insignificant, in terms of experience if nothing else. Both are still probably good enough to start. And what age are they? They can't be that old...

And why would Lawlor & Nagle be dropped? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Obviously you have some very good young players coming through, and that's a boost, but if you don't have Patrick Curran or Shane Bennett for another year, that is a blow and you still need ballwinners. DJ Foran & Cormac Curran were very strong in that area at minor level, but are they good enough to start at senior?

Mountainlad

Fireball07 wrote: »

Is this likely to be true?

The loss of Walsh & Molumpy wouldn't be insignificant, in terms of experience if nothing else. Both are still probably good enough to start. And what age are they? They can't be that old...

And why would Lawlor & Nagle be dropped? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Obviously you have some very good young players coming through, and that's a boost, but if you don't have Patrick Curran or Shane Bennett for another year, that is a blow and you still need ballwinners. DJ Foran & Cormac Curran were very strong in that area at minor level, but are they good enough to start at senior?

Both would be 31 next year, with Molumphy a couple of months older. To be fair, Shane Walsh is probably better off. He's had awful struggles with injury in the last 3 years and even as a whole it's been a big problem for him over his career. No doubt he would have come to prominence much sooner if he had it not been for this but his contribution to Waterford hurling since 2009 should be remembered.

A goal against Galway in 2009 to turn the tide, and 2 off JJ Delaney in the year Kilkenny won 4 in a row. Performances in 2011 which led him to be the first Fourmilewater man to be nominated for an all star, and even 2012 he was the forward showing the way against Cork in the quarter final and his injury was what turned it back in Cork's favour. Also in my opinion, the most talented Waterford footballer I've seen.


Seamus Prendergast had a long and great career and was always an under-rated player. The point in 2004 to beat Cork has been mentioned but also the great pass to pick out Dan for his 3rd goal in the 2007 Munster final was a highlight. Had a few tough years after and looked like he might be on the way out with Eoin Kelly after 2011, but turned it around big style and was massively important in 2012 and 2013. Even this year when I was guilty of thinking he might just have a few miles on the clock, he came in and made a huge impact off the bench against Wexford and nearly won a game for us that we had no right to win. Never got an all star but gave plenty of all star worthy performances over the years. Two great servants.



Not retiring Molumphy yet and I hope he stays on. It took him time to settle after a year out in 2013 but against Dublin up until he got injured in the relegation match he was outstanding. Winning everything and showed again why he should be in there. His injury problems lasted a long time but even coming on against Wexford he got a point which was more than plenty contributed, he still has a lot to offer for one more year at least.



They've been trying to get rid of Nagle for a while now. To some degree it seems harsh, but he just doesn't have the pace to live with the best forwards in the Country and it's too obvious a weakness to exploit at this stage. Great credit too him for his service though, I think he's on the panel since 2006?


Richie Foley has had a lot of injury problems but he showed enough in the game v Kilkenny in 2013 to suggest he is being harshly treated here. And to me it feels as if some quarters were only waiting for Lawlor to be bested by his marker in one game to turf him out. In 17 Championship games with Waterford I can only think of two games where he'd be very disappointed with how things went. To not even make the panel...

What that decision will be judged on is what there plan is for full back. I hope they have one because if we see a replacement go in there and leak goals like we did against Clare, Kilkenny and Dublin this year in the league then McGrath will have an awful lot to answer for.

deisedude

Mountainlad wrote: »

If Austin Gleeson was to move back, surely Tadhg Bourke is going to be tried at full back?

Though I could see that not lasting, the forwards need Gleeson more than the backs.

I think Phillip Mahony will cement himself as our future centre back if he can remain injury free. We can't do without Gleeson in the forwards

homeofhurling

Slobbery wrote: »

Maybe if he accepts Monopoly Money

now now.. it will be for the love of the game as Micko would say...lol....

culbaire

MUFC91CS wrote: »

Sorry now but what kind of hurling would you like to see the team play that hasn't been played by another county before as I assume that your making a reference to Waterford trying to play like Clare last year?

Once again I didn't want McGrath to picked as manager either but you managed to contradict yourself twice in the last post. A negative (defensive) style of hurling is a philosphy regardless of whether you agree with it or whether it works or not. How creative do you expect him to be? Reverting back to 15 vs 15. Surely a loaded a back line and withdrawing forwards is more creative than playing 15 vs 15.

Read my post correctly. Not what you would like to read into it!
This is what I posted:
Originally Posted by culbaire
Well I do. The reality is that Derek McGrath lacks creativity as a manager and has no real philosophy of hurling. He is trying to ape other counties. This is obvious from the negative style of hurling which Waterford played last year.....
What is his DISTINCT philosophy of hurling? There is no contradiction in the post. He brings NOTHING distinctive to Waterford hurling. He apes other managers. He has nothing from himself. The difference in other counties is that they have managers capable of tailoring styles to the abilities and aptitudes of the players. No two counties are the same.

PTH2009

hopefully we get a good background team together and the players give it a right go for 2015

Waterford Crystal cup- we should be aiming to win the 1st round game

NHL- we should deff be aiming for a top 4 finish and play one of the 1A teams in the QF

Championship- it will be a hard championship for us but its too early to speculate where we will end up