Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Keanes Road

robopaddy wrote: »

I dont buy into this thing that the players are victims in all of this. They made their decision, they knew what they were doing. Unless they are completely deluded they would have known there would be a fairly serious backlash aswell. They can live with consequnces. They only way they will ever fully win the support of the county back is if they go out next year and do the business on the pitch and prove to everyone that their decision was the correct one.

Do we know what the players said or what their decision was. They have never realised a statement on all this at all. As time goes by I am glad they have not released a statement as it would only have added fuel to the whole thing and it would have dragged on.

Ryan (from his tv appearance) seemed to think he could roll up for another year unopposed. He was informed there was an issue and that the players had concerns about his reappointment. He rang 8 players and 3 of them said straight out to him they had problems with him? Ryan knew then of the rumblings, so why did he not nip it in the bud then and call the county panel to a meeting to find out what was the issue(s).

What went on after that was a shambles and Ryan played as big a part of that as any of the county board.

Took a call from The vice captain and because of whatever was said on that call decided to throw his hat at it. Informed the county board and they nearly fell over themselves in their haste to get it out there. All of this done when nearly every one of them were on the road to a minor All Ireland semi final.
Not one of them had a cool enough head to hold fire and meet with the players to sort out any issues and meet them head on.
Did Ryan inform his 'new' back room team or the old one for that matter prior to making his decision? Timeline wise it would seem not. And then when he had time to reflect on it he realised he was wrong and started saying he might be in the running again.

Throw in the confusion regarding members of the 2012 panels involvement which was thrown out in the media. Where did this angle come from?

Now unless we find out otherwise, the players did not threaten to strike, they did not refuse to work for Ryan. They did not force his resignation either as his 2 year term was up afaik. Whatever was said on that call can't have been end of the world stuff as 5 days later he was considering putting his name forward again.

deiseach

The wagons are well and truly circled at this stage. Either you have problems with how the players behaved/County Board reacted (delete as applicable) or you don't. Whatever you think, Michael Ryan's time has passed. Time to thank him for his service, be glad that the Minors proved a sufficient distraction in the immediate aftermath that this didn't erupt into civil war - the Hawk-Eye fiasco probably helped in that respect! - and get on with the business of selecting a replacement.

parish girl

Lads, the bottom line is that Michael Ryans term was up. End of story. Was nt he very presumptuous organising a new back room team. I see he felt he had made great strides..... Yeah we beat Westmeath and Offaly!! If he was so happy why was he changing his back room team again. Obviously he was nt happy with things either so why was he so surprised the players were not happy. In a short time he has gone through a fair amount of "helpers" . Br Ryan, Nicky Cashin, Ken Mc Grath, etc.
The term was up, the players gave their opinion, it was n't favorable, Time to move on. No victims. If the term was not up Michael Ryan may have had reason for concern, but it was up. Most people seem to be forgetting this.
There are loads of people out there who are great Waterford people, love their county etc but that does nt mean they should be manager. Thats not enough, you actually have to be able to do the job as well as want it.

Mountainlad

parish girl wrote: »

Lads, the bottom line is that Michael Ryans term was up. End of story. Was nt he very presumptuous organising a new back room team. I see he felt he had made great strides..... Yeah we beat Westmeath and Offaly!! If he was so happy why was he changing his back room team again. Obviously he was nt happy with things either so why was he so surprised the players were not happy. In a short time he has gone through a fair amount of "helpers" . Br Ryan, Nicky Cashin, Ken Mc Grath, etc.
The term was up, the players gave their opinion, it was n't favorable, Time to move on. No victims. If the term was not up Michael Ryan may have had reason for concern, but it was up. Most people seem to be forgetting this.
There are loads of people out there who are great Waterford people, love their county etc but that does nt mean they should be manager. Thats not enough, you actually have to be able to do the job as well as want it.

Not gonna force any issue here but much like people are accusing others of jumping to criticize the players, there's a lot going around about a new back room team being brought in. Who said Michael Ryan was going to say good luck and god bless to either of Ray Murphy or Seanie Cullinane? Not sure he had the authority to do so.

As regards being presumptious in setting up his own backroom team, if he didn't have staff lined up to train the players etc then he'd be criticized for not being prepared. The only thing I have heard Michael Ryan say about having people lined up is that they would have a full time coach next year i.e. Ger Cunningham who will now not be with Waterford and is a massive loss. Quite likely Flanagan won't be there either, another big blow for us.

I do feel we've reached the point of no return on this, can't see Ryan back in charge. But I'm still not convinced Michael Ryan was treated well, whether he should still be manager or not.

Black Suir

hardybuck wrote: »

Do you not agree that the delegate has a point though? Two players were asked to convey the opinions of the squad. How could they convey those opinions without meeting any of them? While 13 attending is a poor show, I understand that those missing at least communicated to the group by phone.

Michael Ryan has not been hung out to dry. He has been given very favourable treatment in the media. He has given his two years, and may still go for one or two more.

The players on the other hand have been slated by professionals in the media. Nobody is giving them an ounce of support. I'm sure there is more to the story which they aren't releasing. In fairness to the guys, they are teachers, students and tradesmen in most cases - and are unlikely to have much experience in this line of business.

Why did this get leaked to the media so soon? How was the information leaked on the Sunday of the minor game? Was the information communicated by the players, Michael Ryan, or did the county board do it?

In the Dungarvan Observer this week, who ever was reporting on the County Board meeting on Monday night last said that Emer Barry the County PRO said she was told by the County Secretary to Tweet on the day of the meeting what the players had voted against Michael Ryan and that Michael had said that he would not be standing. I am paraphrasing what was reported as I don't have the paper in front of me now. Well done to the Observer for reporting on the County Board meetings. They are the only of the local papers to do so these days. However I suspect that a word in the ear will be had with the reporter for putting in print what was taken at the gates of recent games. Some within the County Board don't like the boards affairs made public until the annual report is published each year. Maybe if they did allow the figures be reported in the media, they might have better support as people most of the time don't know how serious their problems are.

Black Suir

robopaddy wrote: »

I dont buy into this thing that the players are victims in all of this. They made their decision, they knew what they were doing. Unless they are completely deluded they would have known there would be a fairly serious backlash aswell. They can live with consequnces. They only way they will ever fully win the support of the county back is if they go out next year and do the business on the pitch and prove to everyone that their decision was the correct one.

Next year they will have to go out and win at least two of A) The National League, The Munster Final, C) The All-Ireland Final or there will be a lot of egg on their faces. I don't think reaching the final and coming out with a narrow loss in a final or finals will be accepted by most. Everybody could see that while Waterford went out of the Championship early this year, they were moving in the right direction. A best championship result against Kilkenny shows this. Kilkenny are no mean team even if they went out of the championship themselves at an earlier stage than usual this year.

robopaddy

It was still a bad way for the man to finish up. It would have been fairly humiliating for him and there were definitely better ways for it to be dealt with.

I wonder if the players felt the need to act based on the previous behaviour of the co board. They are notoriously slow in changing management and I think everyone will agree that both Davy Fitz and Justin stayed on well past their sell by date. Once their tenure was up they were given additional one year rolling contracts on a yearly basis until such time as they either quit or were shafted by player revolt. Ryan had indicated that he wouldnt be stepping aside anytime soon as this was his dream job and the players feeling that he wasnt the man to bring them forward thinking that they werent going to go down that road again.

I dont know Im just surmising like everyone else, there is definetly no going back for him now and while I dont agree with what happened I hope he does the honourable thing and move on as it will benefit nobody if he decides to put his name back in the hat. the damage has been done

Black Suir

chinguetti wrote: »

In this sorry mess, everyone has a point until we hear the full story but when the players have or are losing the support of the fans, it does seem somewhat odd that the club where the further manager has been spoken of coming from, send a delegate out to a CB meeting to voice support for the players, it does have to raise a flag.

The players may have had to have a rushed meeting on the Sunday (which Ryan stated he knew about on the Thursday before) as the CB said they were going to reappoint Ryan but they haven't given their background to whats gone on so we don't know why they rushed a meeting where more than half weren't at it.

Surely to God, one of them out of 30/35 has done some part of a college course that included some bit of media training? And if not and regardless of what job a player has, they have seen enough times that you need to be media savvy if you have a problem with a manager. Didn't the Kildare players release a statement through the GPA the other week when McGeeney was voted out? What has stopped the Waterford players from doing this? Isn't that what the GPA is meant to do for players, to represent them?

The fact that nothing has been said by the players after 6 weeks would show to me, an outsider, that the players are divided. As Ryan gave one interview and thereafter, said nothing, the players will look the villians in this one.

I hate getting personal, but the delegate in question attends a county board meetings with years, and no matter what is happening at the meeting he has an opinion. All you have to do is to get old copies of the Dungarvan Observer from when the late Tony Mansfield was reporting for them on games and county board meetings and you will see the delegates name mentioned as having got involved in the debate.

robopaddy

Black Suir wrote: »

Next year they will have to go out and win at least two of A) The National League, The Munster Final, C) The All-Ireland Final or there will be a lot of egg on their faces. I don't think reaching the final and coming out with a narrow loss in a final or finals will be accepted by most. Everybody could see that while Waterford went out of the Championship early this year, they were moving in the right direction. A best championship result against Kilkenny shows this. Kilkenny are no mean team even if they went out of the championship themselves at an earlier stage than usual this year.

Jeez I dont know we need to be realistic at the same time. We'll definetly need progress from this year alright. Retain division one status is a must and have a real stab at getting to an All Ireland final would be progress in my eyes, taking a couple of big scalps along the way. Its going to be very competitive the next few years with at least 8 teams with genuine aspirations of winning the AI after looking at Cork and Clare this year. We would have classified ourselves as ahead of both of those at the start of the year.

People make a big deal out of 'finally nearly beating Kilkenny' but looking at how they performed in their other games maybe they were actually there to be taken this year. Maybe they are no longer the benchmark and now it is Clare that are leading the way and thats the level we should be looking to get to with regard to how they bring on their young players etc. and dont forget they gave us a fair auld trimming in the Munster championship aswell

Black Suir

parish girl wrote: »

Lads, the bottom line is that Michael Ryans term was up. End of story. Was nt he very presumptuous organising a new back room team. I see he felt he had made great strides..... Yeah we beat Westmeath and Offaly!! If he was so happy why was he changing his back room team again. Obviously he was nt happy with things either so why was he so surprised the players were not happy. In a short time he has gone through a fair amount of "helpers" . Br Ryan, Nicky Cashin, Ken Mc Grath, etc.
The term was up, the players gave their opinion, it was n't favorable, Time to move on. No victims. If the term was not up Michael Ryan may have had reason for concern, but it was up. Most people seem to be forgetting this.
There are loads of people out there who are great Waterford people, love their county etc but that does nt mean they should be manager. Thats not enough, you actually have to be able to do the job as well as want it.

I agree with you. However, the County Board made one major mistake in my view. When a team goes out of the championship, especially at senior level, they should disband the panel and when it is time to go back again training in November, December January or when ever, the Manager and his selectors should inform the players that they want in their panel of what is happening. Not disbanding the panel could be seen that once a player is invited into a panel he could think he has a right to be there until such time that he sees fit to call a day to his playing days. If the County Board had a practice of disbanding panels after a teams interest in the championship ends, who is to say that the 10, 11, 12 or what ever amount of players were at the Remada would be in Michael Ryan's plans next year if he was reappointed. The players that did attend and those that voted be it for or against Michael Ryan staying on seem to think that they have some sort of right to be in the panel.

chinguetti

hardybuck wrote: »

Why would the DLS club want to lose their manager? And be behind moves to get rid of their last club manager, and another former manager who is a selector?

Seamus Quirke is a fairly vocal delegate, and was part of the committee that was formed to review Davy Fitzgerald's position. One DLS player - John Mullane, was very upset in being linked to this whole affair, and probably felt a duty to speak out about it.

No mention of the Abbeyside delegate's comments? Have Abbeyside anything to do with this!?

I doubt that DLS, or any club, want to lose their manager but it seemed odd to me what their delegate said. I didn't see that the Abbeyside delegate said what he said but when you put the two together, the clubs seemed to be blaming the CB. From reading on here since i posted this morning, the CB knew the players were meeting and then decided to confirm the news on the day of the semi final so they have put the players on a sticky wicket.

However, i still believe that the players should make a statement to clarify the situation from their side.

Giveitfong

It seems to be impossible to get across to some posters here that the players met because they were asked to do so by the county board to ascertain whether the majority would be happy with Michael Ryan continuing as manager or not. Thirty players participated, with the great majority stating that they did not want Ryan to continue. There was no indication at any stage that the players would refuse to play for Ryan if he was reappointed.

thesultan

Who would the main people be to follow on twitter in regards to Waterford GAA?

deiseach

Moving swiftly along, there is a very entertaining thread on the GAA Discussion Board about Ballaghaderreen and whether it is in Mayo or Roscommon. Can anyone explain to me the situation with Carrickbeg? As I understand it, it was in County Waterford administratively until quite recently when it was moved into Tipperary South, but it remains in Waterford for the GAA and there is no dispute over its status. Anything wrong there?

Mr Tibbs

deiseach wrote: »

Moving swiftly along, there is a very entertaining thread on the GAA Discussion Board about Ballaghaderreen and whether it is in Mayo or Roscommon. Can anyone explain to me the situation with Carrickbeg? As I understand it, it was in County Waterford administratively until quite recently when it was moved into Tipperary South, but it remains in Waterford for the GAA and there is no dispute over its status. Anything wrong there?

Many a black eye was given over this question. The parish of Carrick Beg is in Co. Waterford and the majority of this area is in the Deise but its very like Ferrybank with a lot of the new houses that were built occupied by Carrick Mor people. I'd never bring up this subject in a pub in Carrick Beg as the lunitic fringe is never that far out of earshot. There was plenty of colour displayed for the minors and in fairness the Davin Club in Carrick Mor had white and blue bunting in support of their neighbours.

robopaddy

thesultan wrote: »

Who would the main people be to follow on twitter in regards to Waterford GAA?

Thomas Keane. its safe to say you wont miss a single thing

Black Suir

chinguetti wrote: »

I doubt that DLS, or any club, want to lose their manager but it seemed odd to me what their delegate said. I didn't see that the Abbeyside delegate said what he said but when you put the two together, the clubs seemed to be blaming the CB. From reading on here since i posted this morning, the CB knew the players were meeting and then decided to confirm the news on the day of the semi final so they have put the players on a sticky wicket.

However, i still believe that the players should make a statement to clarify the situation from their side.

Of course the County Board new the meeting was going ahead, but they should have got onto the players and asked them to put it back given the day that was in it. If they voted a vote of confidence in Michael Ryan, I doubt that few if any would have got to know that the meeting took place, but if they voted against the keeping him as they did, they should have known that the news would spread as quick as wild fire. The players might claim that holding the meeting mid week might not have suited them as some could be away or anything and they had to go ahead with it. To put it back say to the following Friday, Saturday or Sunday would not have killed them. You could even ask did holding the meeting the day they did suit them when only in or around a dozen of 33 or 34 players showed up.

Black Suir

Giveitfong wrote: »

It seems to be impossible to get across to some posters here that the players met because they were asked to do so by the county board to ascertain whether the majority would be happy with Michael Ryan continuing as manager or not. Thirty players participated, with the great majority stating that they did not want Ryan to continue. There was no indication at any stage that the players would refuse to play for Ryan if he was reappointed.

I don't think anybody disputes the players were asked to meet by the county board. The problem most have is the day that was picked to hold the meeting.

hardybuck

Black Suir wrote: »

I don't think anybody disputes the players were asked to meet by the county board. The problem most have is the day that was picked to hold the meeting.

Ah now that is fairly minor detail, excuse the pun, at this stage. I think everyone can agree that the meeting should have been held at another time, but the vitriol directed towards the players about them having the gumption to hold a meeting at all, to express their opinions, and to oust poor Michael Ryan was immense in the days after the news broke.

Journalists and fans up and down the country, and even our ex County Board Chairman, were only too happy to lay into them. They were easy fodder and did nothing to defend themselves. 'Player Power' was the source of the criticism, and that Waterford players had a history of being too big for their boots.

I don't particularly see myself taking sides in this. There is fault on all sides. However, I don't like to see unfair criticism being dished out and scapegoats created.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

Ah now that is fairly minor detail, excuse the pun, at this stage. I think everyone can agree that the meeting should have been held at another time, but the vitriol directed towards the players about them having the gumption to hold a meeting at all, to express their opinions, and to oust poor Michael Ryan was immense in the days after the news broke.

Journalists and fans up and down the country, and even our ex County Board Chairman, were only too happy to lay into them. They were easy fodder and did nothing to defend themselves. 'Player Power' was the source of the criticism, and that Waterford players had a history of being too big for their boots.

I don't particularly see myself taking sides in this. There is fault on all sides. However, I don't like to see unfair criticism being dished out and scapegoats created.

In fairness, it was his friend who fell victim in it all. Much like the DLS man talking about his own fella being awful upset, it's the same way. Why should we care what journalists up and down the Country are saying? Even though I thought the whole thing was quite embarassing (and as it transpires, and not surprisingly, largely the Board's fault for that) Breheny's article was an absolute disgrace and clearly a lot of the media were just looking to sell papers.

The timing of the meeting, whoever's decision it was, was terrible form too and if we're going to say well it's immaterial now we might as well just not talk about this whole thing for the same reason (to be honest not sure what's being achieved at this stage).

There's enough scapegoats being created in the County board their as well, but none of them are being defended (not suggesting they should just that scapegoats thing you've said isn't really true).

I agree there is blame on all sides, probably even Michael Ryan handing in his resignation so early.


But what I still don't get is that one person in particular here is trying to tell everything exactly what happened by using Phil Fanning's word as gospel and at the same time we're criticizing the media. Is there any chance perhaps that he may not have a 100% accurate version of events either? Worth thinking about

Giveitfong

Is there any reason for suggesting that Phil Fanning's version of events is not 100% accurate. As far as I am aware, nobody in a position to do so has contradicted his version.

Deise_2012

thesultan wrote: »

Who would the main people be to follow on twitter in regards to Waterford GAA?

Liz Reddy, Thomas Keane, Tomas Mccarthy, Waterford GAA, Brian Flannery and Damien Geoghegan are very good, Gavin Whelan has a few updates of matches through wlr aswel

sid wallace

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

Many a black eye was given over this question. The parish of Carrick Beg is in Co. Waterford and the majority of this area is in the Deise but its very like Ferrybank with a lot of the new houses that were built occupied by Carrick Mor people. I'd never bring up this subject in a pub in Carrick Beg as the lunitic fringe is never that far out of earshot. There was plenty of colour displayed for the minors and in fairness the Davin Club in Carrick Mor had white and blue bunting in support of their neighbours.

As far as I know if you live on the Waterford side of the border you can elect to play for the Mollerans, the Swans or the Davins. If you live on the Tipp side you can only play for the Swans or the Davins. Mick Roche originally played for Carrickbeg but then transferred across to the Davins as a minor - his father had been one of the founder members of the Davins.

parish girl

Black Suir wrote: »

I agree with you. However, the County Board made one major mistake in my view. When a team goes out of the championship, especially at senior level, they should disband the panel and when it is time to go back again training in November, December January or when ever, the Manager and his selectors should inform the players that they want in their panel of what is happening. Not disbanding the panel could be seen that once a player is invited into a panel he could think he has a right to be there until such time that he sees fit to call a day to his playing days. If the County Board had a practice of disbanding panels after a teams interest in the championship ends, who is to say that the 10, 11, 12 or what ever amount of players were at the Remada would be in Michael Ryan's plans next year if he was reappointed. The players that did attend and those that voted be it for or against Michael Ryan staying on seem to think that they have some sort of right to be in the panel.

Equally the managerial team should resign and apply for the job again, and not assume that just because they want it they should have it.

Mr Tibbs

sid wallace wrote: »

As far as I know if you live on the Waterford side of the border you can elect to play for the Mollerans, the Swans or the Davins. If you live on the Tipp side you can only play for the Swans or the Davins. Mick Roche originally played for Carrickbeg but then transferred across to the Davins as a minor - his father had been one of the founder members of the Davins.

Thats right Sid, Mick went across to the Davins when he wasn't picked for the Waterford Minor panel and one of his friends advised to him to join the Davins and he would get picked for Tipp which he did but I wonder would he ever have achieved the recognition if he had went to play for Waterford. There is a few lads living in Carrick Mor playing for the Molleran's as their fathers are from this side.

Black Suir

parish girl wrote: »

Equally the managerial team should resign and apply for the job again, and not assume that just because they want it they should have it.

100% correct, but the County Board often give them one, two or three years in the job. Michael Ryan was given two year which was going to be up after Waterford's interest in the championship ended. He knew his time was up and knew he had to be re-elected. All he ever did was to express a wish after the Kilkenny game to stay on for another term and then stated after the meeting that he was no longer interested. After the Kilkenny game, Waterford did not have a Senior Hurling manager, selectors or a back room team and should not have had a panel till they go back training. Its not just in Waterford that this should be happening but right around the country. I heard second or third hand that after Declan Ryan's term was up all the players in his panel were informed, be it by the then new management committee or the county board that the county did not have a panel till they were going back training the following January or when ever.

Giveitfong

I have just heard from a usually reliable source that DJ Carey has expressed an interest in, or has put his name forward for the Waterford manager's job. No information on who he proposes to bring with him. Has anyone else heard anything about this? What do people think?

Cake Man

Giveitfong wrote: »

I have just heard from a usually reliable source that DJ Carey has expressed an interest in, or has put his name forward for the Waterford manager's job. No information on who he proposes to bring with him. Has anyone else heard anything about this? What do people think?

Interesting if true. Does he have any experience in management or coaching?

robopaddy

Cake Man wrote: »

Interesting if true. Does he have any experience in management or coaching?

Very little as far as I know. Sounds like either horse s**t or a publicity stunt from him which he has been renowned for in the past.

Either way he cant be a realistic candidate

Deise Hurler

Cake Man wrote: »

Interesting if true. Does he have any experience in management or coaching?

Managing Young Irelands Intermediate team this year in Kilkenny, but they are in the upcoming relegation final versus Mooncoin.