Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

tonc76

Mountainlad wrote: »

Don't see how it wouldn't prepare them for the league given the better their reflexes are they should be able to control any ball, slow or fast. Might be harder to judge striking and stuff in the league but yeah as you say they should have a better touch come championship.

One possible reason could be that the ball moves faster off these surfaces but the ball generally doesn't deviate from the direction that its travelling in. On a "regular" pitch the ball can change direction once it hits the ground, boot mark, bit of mud etc etc which would be better for reaction times/reflexes IMO.

cookey123

Think the contrast in surface ie hard to soft was the issue, yes the ball would change direction more on grass due to the uneveness of the surface however during the winter months the same pace wouldnt be generated off the surface

SkipFC

Mountainlad wrote: »

Why is that? I found they are abnormally fast even compared to summer ground.



Anyone know when there will be a vote an the proposed change to Junior level in the West? I assume the East would have to change their structures as well? How does it work over there?

Annual convention in Lawlors tomorrow, I presume it's then

blue note

Mountainlad wrote: »

Don't see how it wouldn't prepare them for the league given the better their reflexes are they should be able to control any ball, slow or fast. Might be harder to judge striking and stuff in the league but yeah as you say they should have a better touch come championship.

It would certainly help us if we get a day like the first one against limerick in 09.

Cake Man

blue note wrote: »

It would certainly help us if we get a day like the first one against limerick in 09.

Remember that game, jaysus if it's blowing gale force winds, driving rain and puddles on the pitch, I don't care how good a players first touch is it just won't come off!

Sliabh gCua1

Slobbery wrote: »

They actually charged people in to see a game at this time of year and then treated is like you say above???

You have to wonder about the decision makers in this county. That is totally disrespectful to the paying punter and there is something rotten about it.

Is not the December series as it is called arranged by the Senior Hurling Management team and the money going into their training pot and not the county board coffers. I could be wrong. No doubt I will be told if i am.

Sliabh gCua1

Mountainlad wrote: »

Is there any point in doing ball work now?

Do teams actually do ball work? At times looking at some team you have to wonder.

Sliabh gCua1

Mountainlad wrote: »

Anyone know when there will be a vote an the proposed change to Junior level in the West? I assume the East would have to change their structures as well? How does it work over there?

If the changes go ahead, the junior championship could well up in a bigger farse than it is right now. If there is second string senior sides able to hold their own playing at Intermediate level, the would be even stronger at Junior level. You could have a situation if the purposal goes through whereby who ever represents the county at Munster level in 2015 they might not even have qualified for the Western or Eastern knockout stages of their own championship. After the success' of Ballysaggart and Modeligo in the last two years, not having our county champions represent us would be a joke. There is a need for change at junior level, but that change should be to have an all county championship.

deisedude

Sliabh gCua1 wrote: »

If the changes go ahead, the junior championship could well up in a bigger farse than it is right now. If there is second string senior sides able to hold their own playing at Intermediate level, the would be even stronger at Junior level. You could have a situation if the purposal goes through whereby who ever represents the county at Munster level in 2015 they might not even have qualified for the Western or Eastern knockout stages of their own championship. After the success' of Ballysaggart and Modeligo in the last two years, not having our county champions represent us would be a joke. There is a need for change at junior level, but that change should be to have an all county championship.

Its beyond fcuking ridiculous that there is no all county championship below senior level when much larger counties have one. I think Modeligo, Ballysaggart and Cappaquins achievements are remarkable when you consider the archaic structures holding them back

Cu Baire

deisedude wrote: »

Its beyond fcuking ridiculous that there is no all county championship below senior level when much larger counties have one. I think Modeligo, Ballysaggart and Cappaquins achievements are remarkable when you consider the archaic structures holding them back

I agree. Waterford is too small a county to keep the divisional system going but I don't think the turkeys will vote for Christmas.

leerushon

Sliabh gCua1 & deisedude

I agree with ye both 100% in yer comments regarding the Junior / Intermediate argument.

My big problem is that if the structure is proposed to be changed, it's the clubs that have the vote on whether it changes or not..

If the clubs dont want it to change then vote against it... It's not that difficult. If it should go all county then some club just needs to propose it and then see will it go through on a vote. SIMPLE

SkipFC

The restructuring of the championship will go to the county convention next week.

For anyone interested, tonight's Western convention will be live tweeted by the News and Star.

It's ridiculous for the size of the county that there's practically three county boards (Eastern, Western, County)

leerushon

SkipFC

You make a good point. RE: the restructuring.

So I am right that if the clubs vote against it, it cant go through.. ??

dzilla

McGrath Out

Cake Man

Lads does anyone know of any Hurley repairers in or around Waterford city other then Frank Murphy or Peter Flanagan?

Sliabh gCua1

leerushon wrote: »

SkipFC

You make a good point. RE: the restructuring.

So I am right that if the clubs vote against it, it cant go through.. ??

Thats the way it should, but Officers dont usually vote for major changes unless it comes from them, and the chances are that the club of each officer is unlikely to vote against them. That will mean before any vote is taken for something officers may not want to happen, the number of votes against change provided that each club has their 3 delegates in attendance they have about 40 votes, give or take 2 or 3 making it harder for those in favour to bring forward change. This would be divisional level. At County Level, with a greater number of Divisional and County officers plus their clubs it is even harder to get changes made.

Interesting, to see in the Dungarvan Observer today extracts from Pat Grant's excellent report to convention printed today. Under the heading Junior Hurling Championship structure, the last 2 lines of the piece reads, I am sure we will have a healthy debate at this convention and hopefully we can answer any concerns you have. We should never be afraid of change and must embrace change if the structures of our championship demand it.

Changing Championship structures is often debated at convention but no decission is usually taken till the first meeting of the new board. This means that even if a purposal for change is not in for convention it can be still debated in the new year.

Just throwing a spanner in the works as i do at times, suppose someone for the first delegate meeting was to purpose that we have an all county competition, from what we read in the Runai's report that the western board would embrace such a championship.

leerushon

Sliabh gCua1 wrote: »

Thats the way it should, but Officers dont usually vote for major changes unless it comes from them, and the chances are that the club of each officer is unlikely to vote against them. That will mean before any vote is taken for something officers may not want to happen, the number of votes against change provided that each club has their 3 delegates in attendance they have about 40 votes, give or take 2 or 3 making it harder for those in favour to bring forward change. This would be divisional level. At County Level, with a greater number of Divisional and County officers plus their clubs it is even harder to get changes made.

Interesting, to see in the Dungarvan Observer today extracts from Pat Grant's excellent report to convention printed today. Under the heading Junior Hurling Championship structure, the last 2 lines of the piece reads, I am sure we will have a healthy debate at this convention and hopefully we can answer any concerns you have. We should never be afraid of change and must embrace change if the structures of our championship demand it.

Changing Championship structures is often debated at convention but no decission is usually taken till the first meeting of the new board. This means that even if a purposal for change is not in for convention it can be still debated in the new year.

Just throwing a spanner in the works as i do at times, suppose someone for the first delegate meeting was to purpose that we have an all county competition, from what we read in the Runai's report that the western board would embrace such a championship.

Sliabh gCua1

Surely if we were to go all county that would have to be at County Convention and not at the Western Board Structure Meeting ???

Also, if each club cant think on it's own feet, we'll never go anywhere in this county.

The same applied to Brendan Tobin and his development committee who put in tremendous work to a development plan last year to re-structure all championships from Senior down through all other grades. 2 teams from senior hurling and football be relegated so as to have a 10 team championship and do the same throughout the Intermediate and the Junior.

Out of the 50 clubs at the meeting only 3 voted for this to go through. So I still see a major problem with clubs who do not want change. Us as clubs have to stand up and realize that change needs to start with the Senior clubs and then streamline this through the other grades but every club has to look after themselves and wont look at the bigger picture.

Mountainlad

Really don't agree that the moves to change the Western board would be negative. Far more competitive championships. Its a joke having three Junior competitions.

In fairness, 4 teams is not a championship its a farce. Second strong teams have the right to compete in a proper championship too, their own one is a joke particularly that intermediate junior attached one.

As far as I'm concerned, if a Junior proper team isn't good enough to beat a second string team then they don't deserve to be Intermediate simple as. It would definitely raise the standard.

No doubt all county would too, but at least this is progressive. You can't argue against something progressive if your very problem with the current structure is that its not progressive.

leerushon

Mountainlad wrote: »

Really don't agree that the moves to change the Western board would be negative. Far more competitive championships. Its a joke having three Junior competitions.

In fairness, 4 teams is not a championship its a farce. Second strong teams have the right to compete in a proper championship too, their own one is a joke particularly that intermediate junior attached one.

As far as I'm concerned, if a Junior proper team isn't good enough to beat a second string team then they don't deserve to be Intermediate simple as. It would definitely raise the standard.

No doubt all county would too, but at least this is progressive. You can't argue against something progressive if your very problem with the current structure is that its not progressive.

I agree with you that a 4 team junior championship is a farce..

But what about the Intermediate Hurling Championship which has 9 teams in it. So you have a group of 5 and a group of 4.

This is the same as the Junior Hurling last year... a group of 4

Surely that's not a good option either..

Mountainlad

leerushon wrote: »

I agree with you that a 4 team junior championship is a farce..

But what about the Intermediate Hurling Championship which has 9 teams in it. So you have a group of 5 and a group of 4.

This is the same as the Junior Hurling last year... a group of 4

Surely that's not a good option either..

Take your point, but first time that has ever happened, and between quarters and relegation every side was guaranteed 5 games.

Sliabh gCua1

Mountainlad wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned, if a Junior proper team isn't good enough to beat a second string team then they don't deserve to be Intermediate simple as. It would definitely raise the standard.

There is second string selections beating first string selections at Intermediate level in the east of the county and Abbeyside have beaten a few in the west in the last few years. If second string teams can beat first string intermediate teams, they can beat Junior Proper as they are called teams.

Mountainlad

Sliabh gCua1 wrote: »

There is second string selections beating first string selections at Intermediate level in the east of the county and Abbeyside have beaten a few in the west in the last few years. If second string teams can beat first string intermediate teams, they can beat Junior Proper as they are called teams.

They'll beat some but you expect the best to beat them. And as I said, if there not good enough to beat them then they have to improve, therefore you expect higher standard Junior teams when they become intermediate therefore increasing the standard in intermediate as well.

leerushon

Mountainlad wrote: »

They'll beat some but you expect the best to beat them. And as I said, if there not good enough to beat them then they have to improve, therefore you expect higher standard Junior teams when they become intermediate therefore increasing the standard in intermediate as well.

True you make a very good point, they will have to try and improve..

I still go back to this point below.. When the change was put to the clubs 12 months ago we got this:


Brendan Tobin and his development committee put in tremendous work to a development plan last year to re-structure all championships from Senior down through all other grades. 2 teams from senior hurling and football be relegated so as to have a 10 team championship and do the same throughout the Intermediate and the Junior.

Out of the 50 clubs at the meeting only 3 voted for this to go through. So I still see a major problem with clubs who do not want change. Us as clubs have to stand up and realize that change needs to start with the Senior clubs and then streamline this through the other grades but every club has to look after themselves and wont look at the bigger picture.

Sliabh gCua1

leerushon wrote: »

True you make a very good point, they will have to try and improve..

I still go back to this point below.. When the change was put to the clubs 12 months ago we got this:


Brendan Tobin and his development committee put in tremendous work to a development plan last year to re-structure all championships from Senior down through all other grades. 2 teams from senior hurling and football be relegated so as to have a 10 team championship and do the same throughout the Intermediate and the Junior.

Out of the 50 clubs at the meeting only 3 voted for this to go through. So I still see a major problem with clubs who do not want change. Us as clubs have to stand up and realize that change needs to start with the Senior clubs and then streamline this through the other grades but every club has to look after themselves and wont look at the bigger picture.

It is an awful pity that clubs dont look at the bigger picture. I have heard clubs say why would you travel from Ferrybank to Ballysaggart for a game or vice versa. While some competitions in the east are played home and away, if they were to go all county games should be played at half way venues like they are in the west.

piuswal

Sliabh gCua1 wrote: »

It is an awful pity that clubs dont look at the bigger picture. I have heard clubs say why would you travel from Ferrybank to Ballysaggart for a game or vice versa. While some competitions in the east are played home and away, if they were to go all county games should be played at half way venues like they are in the west.

Do they ever look across the river and see how KK are structured and how many trophies they have won since 59?

I suspect that some distances between some clubs are possibly greater than any between east and west Waterford.

As you say, it is a real pity that clubs don't look at the bigger picture. Is there anyone in the county with

a) the vision to see what is necessary and the

b) the capability of driving that change?

HillFarmer

Anyone at the Dublin game on Friday night in Carrignore?
How did they go

Is Maurice playing this year does anyone know?
Be great addition to the half forwards and bedly needed.

thinkstoomuch1

HillFarmer wrote: »

Anyone at the Dublin game on Friday night in Carrignore?
How did they go

Is Maurice playing this year does anyone know?
Be great addition to the half forwards and bedly needed.

Lost by six points high scoring game
Third loss in row last week in wexford, Galway and now dublin beat them

You would hope for sake Waterford hurling mcgrath gets sacked as soon as possible

3ships

Waterford 1-19 Dublin 2-22

I believe that was the final score. I headed off early to get to the off licence, the game petered out a bit towards the end with so many subs and didn't want to miss out on the bottle of wine I said I'd get for the missus.
It was much better than the Wexford game in the sense there was a bit of speed to the game. There was not the heavy pitch and indeed heavy legs evident last Sunday. The formation was a bit more positive too with more ball sent to the corner (the pitch helped). Carraiganore is a great facility and all the winter challenges should be played there.

the starting team was

Iggy
McNulty
Coughlan
ConnorsN
GOB
TdeB
S Fives
PPrender
JBarron
MON
Brick
ConnorsT
MKearney
Paudie Mahony
and I initially thought Dunford but not sure

Subs: a good few, noticeable to me anyway, were Harney and Cormac Curren

I have to say I was impressed by the speed and efficiency of the Dublin forwards. Seemed like a young team and the took their scores well. Dotsy (the obviously most recognisable one) stood out bagging a goal and a couple.

For Waterford scores were harder to come by. I reckon the wide count was about 16 to 6 when I left. This was due to long range shooting.Waterford had most of the ball but when, let's say, in the scoring zone were well closed down, hence the ball fired from distance. The possession game we are trying broke down a few times with the wet ball, can't blame the players too much, it was like a bar of soap at times.

Quick analysis:
Jamie Barron caught the eye a midfield, good movement and distribution.
Barry Coughlan worth a punt at FB
Brick Ok at centre forward, but looked a real threat at FF in second half
Paudie Mahony was the quality player in white.
Mikey Kearney was on the ball a lot, didn't always work out for him but I liked the way he kept going and got his goal.
Tommy Connors was out to impress too and put in a good shift.

It was a grand exercise and there was even a sub keeper, tho I couldn't tell you who.

cascade12

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Lost by six points high scoring game
Third loss in row last week in wexford, Galway and now dublin beat them

You would hope for sake Waterford hurling mcgrath gets sacked as soon as possible

Maybe you should concentrate on the state of Cork hurling. Agreed, Derek McGath did not have a great first year in charge but looking to sack a manager after 3 challenge matches in December is a little over the top. He has brought in an excellent coach in Fintan O Connor who has led Cappoquin to a County and Munster title in his first year with the club and winning a Fitzgibbon with WIT earlier in the year. He also did an excellent job with Fourmilewater previous to that, and I have no doubt will be a very good addition to the Waterford set up.
FWIW I was at the game tonight and was very pleased with what I saw from a very experimental side. Jamie Barron was very good at centre field as was Brick at centre and full forward, Paudie Mahoney and Mickey Kearney impressed also against a good and very fit and athletic Dublin team. Look out for Barron at midfield next year, quality.
If I was you , I would be more than a little worried about Waterford next June. You might then be wishing that it was JBM who should have been sacked. For the sake of Cork hurling I hope he is not even though they were a shambles against Tipp in the semi. But lets give him and McGrath the next year before passing judgement and dont forget we could go back and inspect JBMs, Eamon O Sheas or even the great Brian Codys first year in charge and it might not make for great reading. So lets stop the witch hunt and discuss the games we attend, and not depend on second hand information.

thinkstoomuch1

cascade12 wrote: »

Maybe you should concentrate on the state of Cork hurling. Agreed, Derek McGath did not have a great first year in charge but looking to sack a manager after 3 challenge matches in December is a little over the top. He has brought in an excellent coach in Fintan O Connor who has led Cappoquin to a County and Munster title in his first year with the club and winning a Fitzgibbon with WIT earlier in the year. He also did an excellent job with Fourmilewater previous to that, and I have no doubt will be a very good addition to the Waterford set up.
FWIW I was at the game tonight and was very pleased with what I saw from a very experimental side. Jamie Barron was very good at centre field as was Brick at centre and full forward, Paudie Mahoney and Mickey Kearney impressed also against a good and very fit and athletic Dublin team. Look out for Barron at midfield next year, quality.
If I was you , I would be more than a little worried about Waterford next June. You might then be wishing that it was JBM who should have been sacked. For the sake of Cork hurling I hope he is not even though they were a shambles against Tipp in the semi. But lets give him and McGrath the next year before passing judgement and dont forget we could go back and inspect JBMs, Eamon O Sheas or even the great Brian Codys first year in charge and it might not make for great reading. So lets stop the witch hunt and discuss the games we attend, and not depend on second hand information.

And I was there too, watching dublin cork links and dublin old chap
You presumed assume buddy, wrongly
Most know I'm avid cork gaa hurling man and with dublin and Waterford having cork links and Waterford opponent next year I went see them
I as many know don't judge games with out knowing talk about
Second hand info, erra
Did I not post the result
Didn't do post report as knew Yere lads do it as brilliant at them and long spin Waterford back to cork


Don't get excited, I'm not making insult Waterford merely saying many geuine real real knowledge Waterford fans know there's real trouble in the camp , two coaches gone, players gone, etc not happy camp

Fellas like yourself are always around credit due can't see what realism shows but just like cork football don't critise the shambles exists and say ah its woeful but hey don't be harsh thinks can only get better


Seriously would you get real , real issues in camp and lot people know frank flannery cork coach and maher did not just leave for sake it

Clear day three losses already no moral or belief in set up

Now you obviously haven't much knowledge real gaa world but tip off, just wait next few weeks and watch who frank flannery tales charge off in club scene
Point is Could imo stayed Waterford but look clear day problems there

Waterford played tonight as individuals not team talent is there but no team work
I think many Waterford fans here disagree your view ye beat cork under current set up
Cork have problems yes but Waterford management won't expose them
That's not geuinely being arrogant, it's called realism.


Don't compare apples and oranges

Cody got kilkenny all irelands final year one
Jbm had bran new team but won minors and had proven intercounty success in 95

O shea part back room team won all ireland and when o shea did loose ist term as manager don't forget twas kilkenny in knowlan park

Your comparison mcgrath to jbm, o shea. Cody shows paucity your post I'm sure many Waterford fans agree with

No wtich hunt
Purely judging on results
Did man utd feel same Moyles poor ist year
No, they sacked him as realised failed minimum standards just look at them now
Nobody expected all ireland Waterford but results below minimum standard old sport.