Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

deisedude

Saying we don't have the players is horsesh1t. Most of the other intercounty panels have very young squads and Waterford have been beating them at underage.

McGrath has a limited gameplan that makes our players look a hell of a lot worse than they are. I'm not saying we'd win an All Ireland with a better manager but we'd at least be competitive

thinkstoomuch1

deisedude wrote: »

Saying we don't have the players is horsesh1t. Most of the other intercounty panels have very young squads and Waterford have been beating them at underage.

McGrath has a limited gameplan that makes our players look a hell of a lot worse than they are. I'm not saying we'd win an All Ireland with a better manager but we'd at least be competitive

Wexford have young squad and done well with no all irelands minor but terrific coach in dunne

Slobbery

deisedude wrote: »

Saying we don't have the players is horsesh1t. Most of the other intercounty panels have very young squads and Waterford have been beating them at underage.

McGrath has a limited gameplan that makes our players look a hell of a lot worse than they are. I'm not saying we'd win an All Ireland with a better manager but we'd at least be competitive

Most of the current Clare team would have beaten Waterford at Underage level, both minor and U21 recently, I can think of two Minor Munster and one U21 finals that Clare have beaten us.

it was close, but Limerick have beaten us in two minor Munster finals - of the current Limerick team - a few of whom won an U21 against Cork a few years ago, have an older age profile and would not have actually played against many of the current young waterford players yet as they are a bit older... In essence what I am saying is that the Limerick minors who beat us recently are still waiting to get anywhere near their senior team, even though they beat us - those minor teams are now back-boning our panel

A few of the Tipp team lost to us in an U21 semi a few years ago - but again not a lot of their recent minors or U21s have broke into the team in recent times.

when you look at the facts, our current players have not played against nor have they beaten the players who are currently playing senior from the other counties at underage level at all. they are totally different crops of players

Slobbery

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Wexford have young squad and done well with no all irelands minor but terrific coach in dunne

Wexford got beaten by a Dublin team that turned out to be a shambles, granted they beat Clare but they got hockeyed by Limerick after getting over us, a game that can be described as two bald men fighting over a comb.

they had a poor league and were run very close by Laois and Antrim and got well beaten by Limerick and Cork - if that happened us next year people will be baying for blood.

If you look at it the Clare matches papered over the cracks for wexfords season, so new players emerged but saying they did well is stretching it, I dont see them having any reason to be shouting from the rooftops

thinkstoomuch1

Slobbery wrote: »

Wexford got beaten by a Dublin team that turned out to be a shambles, granted they beat Clare but they got hockeyed by Limerick after getting over us, a game that can be described as two bald men fighting over a comb.

they had a poor league and were run very close by Laois and Antrim and got well beaten by Limerick and Cork - if that happened us next year people will be baying for blood.

If you look at it the Clare matches papered over the cracks for wexfords season, so new players emerged but saying they did well is stretching it, I dont see them having any reason to be shouting from the rooftops

Limerick game was non runner in four weeks out no way could be seen as fair contest

Beat waterford quite easily bar late goal put gloss it

I agree clare tired but wexford done well and this year added fitzhenry selector and. Will do very well this year league

You simply can't blame players lack depth for things like going game no sub keeper

Who picks panel??
The manager

Loosing challenge games and two coaches leaving that's reflection management

If you put aside player argument there's been other reason clear day suggest this management is miles off what required

Alf Tupper

To be fair could you see Cheddar Plunkett, Brian Whelehan or Skin Ryan, all with way less playing resources than Waterford, coming out with this self serving rubbish?

For God's sake everyone knows that the reason the two selectors left and the reason that he can't get another selector now is because the set up is so bad.

But writing off a whole year, and even two, in December is criminal.

I'm beginning to think, looking at the excuses being made in advance in that article, that the only reason McGrath has brought so many young lads who are not yet ready for the fray into the set up is to be able to hide behind them when the going gets rough.

Slobbery

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Limerick game was non runner in four weeks out no way could be seen as fair contest

Beat waterford quite easily bar late goal put gloss it

I agree clare tired but wexford done well and this year added fitzhenry selector and. Will do very well this year league

You simply can't blame players lack depth for things like going game no sub keeper

Who picks panel??
The manager

Loosing challenge games and two coaches leaving that's reflection management

If you put aside player argument there's been other reason clear day suggest this management is miles off what required

I agree we are currently propping up the rest in munster.

I agree our setup is leaking serious water.

I just wexford was a bad example. If we get identical results next year people would not be happy

Sliabh gCua1

Waternut wrote: »

Bit unfair Alf.. Unfortunately the players simply aren't there. He has brought on a bunch of young lads but there is a massive step up from minor to senior hurling. Many of those young lads haven't even played fitzgibbon yet. There is little point playing lads who have been there for the last four or five years and failed to deliver and are simply not good enough.. It will take time, maybe a year or two or more, for these lads to get up to speed with senior hurling.

We also had lads who always give it there all, who were got rid off, players who if they were involved this year the new young players could have learned a lot from playing with and training with.

Sliabh gCua1

MUFC91CS wrote: »

In the end of the day he is a Waterford hurling man, he has not came down from Kilkenny or Cork to destroy Waterford hurling.

Who in recent years have come in and done that.

Alf Tupper

MUFC91CS wrote: »

I'm by no means a fan of Derek McGrath from his days with DLS. I have actually have sympathy for him now. In the end of the day he is a Waterford hurling man, he has not came down from Kilkenny or Cork to destroy Waterford hurling.

There is no room for sympathy in inter county hurling, either on or off the field.

There is no getting away from the fact that Derek McGrath getting journalists to do fluff pieces about him like this, where he can plead the poor mouth, only serves to make him look even weaker still.

I genuinely think he knows he is not up to the task but is trying to bluff his way through it.

Can you think of one other county at the moment who would appoint him in a management role?

Come to think of it, I cannot even think of a junior club in the county who would give him a management role, let alone another county.

That might sound harsh but unfortunately it's true.

The problem is, even more unfortunately for Waterford hurling, it's true.

JeffKenna

Waternut wrote: »

Bit unfair Alf.. Unfortunately the players simply aren't there. He has brought on a bunch of young lads but there is a massive step up from minor to senior hurling. Many of those young lads haven't even played fitzgibbon yet. There is little point playing lads who have been there for the last four or five years and failed to deliver and are simply not good enough.. It will take time, maybe a year or two or more, for these lads to get up to speed with senior hurling.

time for Shane O' Sullivan to go based on that logic.

thinkstoomuch1

Alf Tupper wrote: »

There is no room for sympathy in inter county hurling, either on or off the field.

There is no getting away from the fact that Derek McGrath getting journalists to do fluff pieces about him like this, where he can plead the poor mouth, only serves to make him look even weaker still.

I genuinely think he knows he is not up to the task but is trying to bluff his way through it.

Can you think of one other county at the moment who would appoint him in a management role?

Come to think of it, I cannot even think of a junior club in the county who would give him a management role, let alone another county.

That might sound harsh but unfortunately it's true.

The problem is, even more unfortunately for Waterford hurling, it's true.

Cork have appointed similar candidates in hurling in the past

Our football team imo similar scensrio

Iecrawfc

Alf Tupper wrote: »

There is no room for sympathy in inter county hurling, either on or off the field.

There is no getting away from the fact that Derek McGrath getting journalists to do fluff pieces about him like this, where he can plead the poor mouth, only serves to make him look even weaker still.

I genuinely think he knows he is not up to the task but is trying to bluff his way through it.

Can you think of one other county at the moment who would appoint him in a management role?

Come to think of it, I cannot even think of a junior club in the county who would give him a management role, let alone another county.

That might sound harsh but unfortunately it's true.

The problem is, even more unfortunately for Waterford hurling, it's true.

If I were McGrath I'd be getting in a top class coach, it looks like the whole setup needs a shot on the arm, dunno what the financial situation is like in waterford but if there is cash they should be doing something like that, I think the players are in waterford, there's some terrific talents coming through, that's no good though if the panel and management are under the cosh from the hurling public that are seeing things go backwards...

Alf Tupper

JeffKenna wrote: »

time for Shane O' Sullivan to go based on that logic.

You would think so but unfortunately the present set up under Derek echoes the final passages from Orwell's Animal Farm- "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

Cornerstoner

After much lobbying, Thomas Keane finally gets his club to forward the motion re change of Junior championship

Jarjohn

Well if Clashmore avoid relegation its a complete farce and sets a dangerous situation in the future. Would I be right in saying that it is not set in stone as a championship structure meeting could reject format?
Congrats to Paddy Joe, John Jackson and Tommy Hennessy on appoinments tonight. Big blow to outgoing chairman coming 3rd in 3 horse race

seananigans

Alf Tupper wrote: »

You would think so but unfortunately the present set up under Derek echoes the final passages from Orwell's Animal Farm- "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

I went to school with Shane (in fact since he was shane and i was Seán o'sullivan we quite often got mistaken)

hes not a bad guy but he knew he was a good hurler hurl never left his hand, a every teacher knew it ,one time he blocked mr o'neill fomr entering a classroom with a cabinet and turned up he radio to the last, he was a year head who hand[picked the class ,he came in face red ready to hit someone when he pushed it outta the way , he shouted "who did this" and shane couldnt hide his smile, his face turned and he laughed in an "oh you" way.

anyone else would have been suspended ,at least parents called

point is mcgrath was a new teacher then ,still had hair, and i think they think too much of each other .

he never taught me ,but he seemed ****e just crisis managment push had to come to shove for something to happen and ten he acted out, seems not much has changed in over 11 years since i finished

Alf Tupper

seananigans wrote: »

I went to school with Shane (in fact since he was shane and i was Seán o'sullivan we quite often got mistaken)

hes not a bad guy but he knew he was a good hurler hurl never left his hand, a every teacher knew it ,one time he blocked mr o'neill fomr entering a classroom with a cabinet and turned up he radio to the last, he was a year head who hand[picked the class ,he came in face red ready to hit someone when he pushed it outta the way , he shouted "who did this" and shane couldnt hide his smile, his face turned and he laughed in an "oh you" way.

anyone else would have been suspended ,at least parents called

point is mcgrath was a new teacher then ,still had hair, and i think they think too much of each other .

he never taught me ,but he seemed ****e just crisis managment push had to come to shove for something to happen and ten he acted out, seems not much has changed in over 11 years since i finished

To be fair, all of the stories coming out of the Waterford set up from last year substantiate that the whole set up is being treated by the ex DLS school people involved as their own play thing.

The Waterford players and supporters deserve better.

seananigans

Alf Tupper wrote: »

To be fair, all of the stories coming out of the Waterford set up from last year substantiate that the whole set up is being treated by the ex DLS school people involved as their own play thing.

The Waterford players and supporters deserve better.

I like Shane, I really do, I didn't even get hurling back then , but i do now, he worked hard by no means a natural talent he worked at it, all the more impressive to force himself to become a good hurler ,in any other family he wouldnt be anything

problem is his potshots from midfield go wide now, the added value he used to bring is gone,he fullfills a role ,but he was never a marquee name,just a dependable who,outside of waterford no one has heard of

he has his own record (ony player to start with 2 of his nephews) played in an ai won a few munster and 1 league ,but ultimately, if he cant add that little bit extra what does he bring

was watching the apprentice a few years ago, and alan sugar said ," the thing that makes you stand out is not what you do,but what you do on top of what you are supposed to do" Shane is all out of extras i am afraid,and the bare minimum is not enough

stumblingblock

I don't get how o sullivan is still knocking around when lads like Foley and nagle have been told they're surplus to requirements due to their age profile. You could argue that lawlor and molumphy have as much to offer aswell and they were both pushed out the door.

cul beag

stumblingblock wrote: »

I don't get how o sullivan is still knocking around when lads like Foley and nagle have been told they're surplus to requirements due to their age profile. You could argue that lawlor and molumphy have as much to offer aswell and they were both pushed out the door.

Yes and we're led to believe that iggy has a positive effect around the squad,which I've no doubt he has,but I'm sure Lawlor,molumphy and Nagle were just the same but yet were shafted. Why? Don't tell me they've brought better onto the squad,it is because when certain questions were asked that didn't sit well with McGrath,his answer was to boot them out. Not to worry because when the new chairman settles into his position I would imagine Mr. McGrath's p45 will be typed up and personally handed to him!!

HillFarmer

cul beag wrote: »

Yes and we're led to believe that iggy has a positive effect around the squad,which I've no doubt he has,but I'm sure Lawlor,molumphy and Nagle were just the same but yet were shafted. Why? Don't tell me they've brought better onto the squad,it is because when certain questions were asked that didn't sit well with McGrath,his answer was to boot them out. Not to worry because when the new chairman settles into his position I would imagine Mr. McGrath's p45 will be typed up and personally handed to him!!

We're not going to win an AllIreland with nagle and Co. Tough on them but cut your losses and give a new guy a shot.
Yes we were more competitive but give the young lads a few years and let them have a go.

Slobbery

seananigans wrote: »

I went to school with Shane (in fact since he was shane and i was Seán o'sullivan we quite often got mistaken)

hes not a bad guy but he knew he was a good hurler hurl never left his hand, a every teacher knew it ,one time he blocked mr o'neill fomr entering a classroom with a cabinet and turned up he radio to the last, he was a year head who hand[picked the class ,he came in face red ready to hit someone when he pushed it outta the way , he shouted "who did this" and shane couldnt hide his smile, his face turned and he laughed in an "oh you" way.

anyone else would have been suspended ,at least parents called

point is mcgrath was a new teacher then ,still had hair, and i think they think too much of each other .

he never taught me ,but he seemed ****e just crisis managment push had to come to shove for something to happen and ten he acted out, seems not much has changed in over 11 years since i finished

Shane O'sullivan was very highly thought of in UCC and as a fresher made the fitzgibbon team which contained super stars like tommy walsh, cha Fitzpatrick, Tennyson, michael rice, Tom kenny..

So to be fair to the guy as a young player in a set up in another county with cork coaches, his talent then was recognised.

cul beag

HillFarmer wrote: »

We're not going to win an AllIreland with nagle and Co. Tough on them but cut your losses and give a new guy a shot.
Yes we were more competitive but give the young lads a few years and let them have a go.

??????????? Doesn't warrant a response!.........I give up!!

Alf Tupper

Slobbery wrote: »

Shane O'sullivan was very highly thought of in UCC and as a fresher made the fitzgibbon team which contained super stars like tommy walsh, cha Fitzpatrick, Tennyson, michael rice, Tom kenny..

So to be fair to the guy as a young player in a set up in another county with cork coaches, his talent then was recognised.

What has that got to do with the present day?

Any little bit he had to offer is gone now.

At best Shane O'Sullivan was a manufactured workaday hurler, akin to a few of the lads that Dublin have now. He got by on his fitness and bulk gained from long hours in the gym. He never had the wrists for a hurler but at one time he could do a job for you.

There's no shame in that and he deserves loads of credit for applying himself to get as far as he did, but please stop trying to tell us he was ever something he was not by naming him in the company of those stars above.

It's akin to saying he played on the same team as Ken and Flynner.

By the way, not one of the other guys you have mentioned are still playing inter county hurling.

Q.E.D.

Alf Tupper

HillFarmer wrote: »

We're not going to win an AllIreland with nagle and Co. Tough on them but cut your losses and give a new guy a shot.

And we will win one with Iggy and Shane O'Sullivan???

All people are questioning is the even handedness of what's going since McGrath took over! Everyone knows it's an old pals act, the school tie being the most important thing.

If you're going to have a cull, then have a cull, with every player being judged by the same criteria not by whether or not he's palsy walsy with the manager.

conditioned games

Favourtism has been rife with Derek since he has come in. How can he justify dropping lawlor, foley, nagel and others while keeping shane o sullivan. Is it because they didn't back him when he forced his way in. We need a new manager that isn't a disaster.

Slobbery

Alf Tupper wrote: »

What has that got to do with the present day?

Any little bit he had to offer is gone now.

At best Shane O'Sullivan was a manufactured workaday hurler, akin to a few of the lads that Dublin have now. He got by on his fitness and bulk gained from long hours in the gym. He never had the wrists for a hurler but at one time he could do a job for you.

There's no shame in that and he deserves loads of credit for applying himself to get as far as he did, but please stop trying to tell us he was ever something he was not by naming him in the company of those stars above.

It's akin to saying he played on the same team as Ken and Flynner.

By the way, not one of the other guys you have mentioned are still playing inter county hurling.

Q.E.D.

It has nothing to do with the present day, I don't think he is doing enough to be on the panel either. I agree hard work got him a long way and fair play to him.

The other poster had dragged up some pointless story from his school days and if we are delving that far back into the guys past It was only fair to say that he was once highly regarded outside the county.

He was also a good bit younger than the guys named above with the exception of cha Fitzpatrick.. And to my knowledge michael rice has not retired.

Again nothing to do with him being in the panel now, but christ just trying to be fair the guy, you would swear he only ever got on the panel because in brought an apple into the teacher in primary school

He was a hard working player that kept himself in top Nick to play for the county, granted he never set the world alight but he could never be faulted for effort and commitment.

McGrath is doing enough wrong we don't need to focus on a SOS, who gave it his all in his time in the jersey, and use him as a stick to beat McGrath.

Alf Tupper

Slobbery wrote: »

It has nothing to do with the present day, I don't think he is doing enough to be on the panel either. I agree hard work got him a long way and fair play to him.

The other poster had dragged up some pointless story from his school days and if we are delving that far back into the guys past It was only fair to say that he was once highly regarded outside the county.

He was also a good bit younger than the guys named above with the exception of cha Fitzpatrick.. And to my knowledge michael rice has not retired.

Again nothing to do with him being in the panel now, but christ just trying to be fair the guy, you would swear he only ever got on the panel because in brought an apple into the teacher in primary school

He was a hard working player that kept himself in top Nick to play for the county, granted he never set the world alight but he could never be faulted for effort and commitment.

McGrath is doing enough wrong we don't need to focus on a SOS, who gave it his all in his time in the jersey, and use him as a stick to beat McGrath.

I don't disagree with anything you have said there.

But the reason SOS is being focussed on here is that his retention on the panel over Molomphy, Lawlor, Nagle, Walsh and Foley etc is a glowing example of one of the main complaints about McGrath - not being even handed in his dealing with players.

This has had the knock on effect of loss of team spirit and group coheviseness as evidenced by our performances last year. And also, by the way, the walking away of our two most proficient mentors.

Mountainlad

conditioned games wrote: »

Favourtism has been rife with Derek since he has come in. How can he justify dropping lawlor, foley, nagel and others while keeping shane o sullivan. Is it because they didn't back him when he forced his way in. We need a new manager that isn't a disaster.

One of them did, my sympathy is thin on the ground for him.

Point is a reasonable one though, Sullivan is no better than any of those 4 players.