Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Deise_2012

hardybuck wrote: »

robopaddy wrote: »

DJ is now out of the running. Thats if he was ever actually in it in the first place...

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=201647[/QUOTE]

'DJ turns down Deise' - that's a bit much now. You'd swear he was offered the role the way the headline is written.

Does anyone have a list of the nominees that I understand were discussed at the Board meeting last night?

Thomas Keane said it was Derek Mcgrath, Michael Ryan, DJ Carey and Peter Quelly nominated for the managers job

deisedude

Deise_2012 wrote: »

hardybuck wrote: »

Thomas Keane said it was Derek Mcgrath, Michael Ryan, DJ Carey and Peter Quelly nominated for the managers job

Jesus, we are fcuked

robopaddy

deisedude wrote: »

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Jesus, we are fcuked

It makes for depressing reading if thats the best they could come up with between the 6 of them.

What about guys like Martin Fogarty? Joe Dooley? Even Kevin Ryan? Have they even been approached?

Mountainlad

robopaddy wrote: »

deisedude wrote: »

It makes for depressing reading if thats the best they could come up with between the 6 of them.

What about guys like Martin Fogarty? Joe Dooley? Even Kevin Ryan? Have they even been approached?

Does Fogarty have any experience in management?

Dooley is at best unproven also. And Kevin Ryan moreover than being unproven, has significant doubts about him for me with what we're being told went on at Antrim this year.

Winning a Christy Ring only counts for so much. Don't see anybody saying Paul Flynn should be manager and he did the same with Down this year.

If we were being honest about this, that list is scarcely better than what has already been seen. There is serious opposition to Peter Queally generally, but his track record seems pretty good. That Clare u21 team swept away everybody they played this year, except us who had it not been for a red card may well have even beaten them!

Taking Passage to a semi final deserves respect, they're not a great side. And I believe he had success with Youghal before that. Would like him to have more experience but that could be said for anyone in the frame for the job.

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

robopaddy wrote: »

Does Fogarty have any experience in management?

Dooley is at best unproven also. And Kevin Ryan moreover than being unproven, has significant doubts about him for me with what we're being told went on at Antrim this year.

Winning a Christy Ring only counts for so much. Don't see anybody saying Paul Flynn should be manager and he did the same with Down this year.

If we were being honest about this, that list is scarcely better than what has already been seen. There is serious opposition to Peter Queally generally, but his track record seems pretty good. That Clare u21 team swept away everybody they played this year, except us who had it not been for a red card may well have even beaten them!

Taking Passage to a semi final deserves respect, they're not a great side. And I believe he had success with Youghal before that. Would like him to have more experience but that could be said for anyone in the frame for the job.

Fogarty has been alongside Cody since 2004 so you cant get much more experience at whats required at this level than that. I have just seen that he has distanced himself from the Offaly job now though so maybe hes not interested in management. Dooley I think is an excellent manager hard to gague his success with Offaly because they were at nothing qualitywise anyway. Kevin Ryan has a lot more experience than Flynn aswell Just because hes had the same success dosent necessarily make him an equal candidate.

Im not opposed to either McGrath or Queally going for the job Im just very concerned at the lack of top class experience of all the candidates and I would like to see at least one or 2 experienced outsiders in the frame aswell and if the internal candidates prove to be better after the interviewes so be it.

Mountainlad

robopaddy wrote: »

Fogarty has been alongside Cody since 2004 so you cant get much more experience at whats required at this level than that. I have just seen that he has distanced himself from the Offaly job now though so maybe hes not interested in management. Dooley I think is an excellent manager hard to gague his success with Offaly because they were at nothing qualitywise anyway. Kevin Ryan has a lot more experience than Flynn aswell Just because hes had the same success dosent necessarily make him an equal candidate.

Im not opposed to either McGrath or Queally going for the job Im just very concerned at the lack of top class experience of all the candidates and I would like to see at least one or 2 experienced outsiders in the frame aswell and if the internal candidates prove to be better after the interviewes so be it.

Big difference between being a selector along side a guy like Cody and being out on your own. No doubt Fogarty is spoken highly of in Kilkenny too but still he has no experience when it comes to managing a team.

Why is Dooley an excellent manager? What did he achieve before going to Offaly? Not saying he didn't achieve anything just I'd be interested in knowing exactly what he has achieved.

And I'm just not convinced by Kevin Ryan. To be honest, there's so few teams that operate at a high level in hurling that it's hard for managers to get the ideal experience and have the reputation built up to suggest they are an appropriate candidate for a County like Waterford.

Would be well worth remembering that Jim Greene won the Christy Ring with Carlow the year before Kevin Ryan did.

hardybuck

Don't forget that Fogarty and Michael Dempsey took over the Kilkenny team in the absence of Cody and won the National League, Kilkenny's only trophy of the year.

Dooley has won at least one county title in Offaly, and managed the county side for four years, winning a Div 2 league title in the process without great playing resources.

I get the sense that if Kevin Ryan had come in with a strong pedigree as a player, we'd all be talking about him very differently.

I'd have preferred if guys like that were at least part of the selection process, and perhaps allowed an interview. We're now down to three candidates, none of whom are coming in from a very strong position.

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

Big difference between being a selector along side a guy like Cody and being out on your own. No doubt Fogarty is spoken highly of in Kilkenny too but still he has no experience when it comes to managing a team.

Why is Dooley an excellent manager? What did he achieve before going to Offaly? Not saying he didn't achieve anything just I'd be interested in knowing exactly what he has achieved.

And I'm just not convinced by Kevin Ryan. To be honest, there's so few teams that operate at a high level in hurling that it's hard for managers to get the ideal experience and have the reputation built up to suggest they are an appropriate candidate for a County like Waterford.

Would be well worth remembering that Jim Greene won the Christy Ring with Carlow the year before Kevin Ryan did.

Ok Im not going to go into each indivisual argument on the above as I think your missing my point here my initial post said what about 'guys like Martin Fogarty? Joe Dooley? Even Kevin Ryan?' Im just giving examples of the kind of guys we could be going for Im sure no matter who I name out there would be reservations and flaws about all of them but also have outstanding qualities.

I take it from your post that you feel Peter Queally is the man for the job? Personally I dont think there is anybody in the county up to the required level at the moment when you see the calibre of managers the other counties have and thats why I think we should be looking further afield

Mountainlad

robopaddy wrote: »

Ok Im not going to go into each indivisual argument on the above as I think your missing my point here my initial post said what about 'guys like Martin Fogarty? Joe Dooley? Even Kevin Ryan?' Im just giving examples of the kind of guys we could be going for Im sure no matter who I name out there would be reservations and flaws about all of them but also have outstanding qualities.

I take it from your post that you feel Peter Queally is the man for the job? Personally I dont think there is anybody in the county up to the required level at the moment when you see the calibre of managers the other counties have and thats why I think we should be looking further afield

I would think you may well be right with the last point, and given what just happened I would have been in favour of an outside candidate.

Without meaning to seem like I'm attacking you or anything, it's just you've mentioned Dooley and Fogarty several times and Kevin Ryan's name is being talked about by many as it was in 2011.

I think it's a very valid point you make that considering these guys would be no harm. I'm sure there must have been a lot more than the three named considered though, even if this is now the shortlist.

I would also add that I'm not 100% convinced we don't have someone within the County capbale of managing the County team. They have to be given the chance first, and although I'd like a manager coming in with pedigree it's rare you'll have a new manager with lots of success.

From that shortlist I think Queally would be my preference. I agree with those saying we can't really go back to Michael Ryan at this stage. Not sure how I feel about Derek McGrath to be honest with you. I don't think any of those three are bad managers for what it's worth whereas I seemed to be getting a sense of people writing them all off before any of them even get the job.

We've already been through that very recently guys.

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

I would think you may well be right with the last point, and given what just happened I would have been in favour of an outside candidate.

Without meaning to seem like I'm attacking you or anything, it's just you've mentioned Dooley and Fogarty several times and Kevin Ryan's name is being talked about by many as it was in 2011.

I think it's a very valid point you make that considering these guys would be no harm. I'm sure there must have been a lot more than the three named considered though, even if this is now the shortlist.

I would also add that I'm not 100% convinced we don't have someone within the County capbale of managing the County team. They have to be given the chance first, and although I'd like a manager coming in with pedigree it's rare you'll have a new manager with lots of success.

From that shortlist I think Queally would be my preference. I agree with those saying we can't really go back to Michael Ryan at this stage. Not sure how I feel about Derek McGrath to be honest with you. I don't think any of those three are bad managers for what it's worth whereas I seemed to be getting a sense of people writing them all off before any of them even get the job.

We've already been through that very recently guys.

Yea Id pretty much second all of that my gut feeling is that neither McGrath nor Queally are quite ready for it and that to bring one of them in it will take them a couple years to find their feet in intercounty management. Weve already had a manager who got 2 years to find his feet and just when it looked like he was ready to take us to the next level apparantly we decide he wasnt good enough and bringing in mcgrath or quaeally is pretty much setting us back those 2 years again.

I think at the moment we need experience, someone who can take to the job like a duck to water, a discplinarian like a Donal O'Grady (not necessarily him specifically but someone of that mould) and build on the work done by the previous management as opposed to starting from scratch again.

Thats my main worry with the candidates anyway

Deise_2012

Good win for dungarvan cbs against blackwater there. Cormac Curran was brilliant at midfield, his ball winning ability from puck outs was top class, even on a day Paddy Curran was fairly quiet, missing a number of frees but he can't be superhuman every game. Cormac O Grady and Aaron Donnelly were good in attack, Kevin Daly and Darragh Lyons played well in defense alongside Shane Nugent at full back. The 4 Waterford lads from blackwater were their stand out players alongside Andrew Molumphy who had a very good 1st half(any relation to stephen??)

cleaboy boy

Would ye all come in out of the fog lads? The world and his dog knows that the county board havent 2 pennys to scratch together, it'll be a Waterford man in charge, no way can they afford an outsider.

PS - Andrew Molumphy is from Cappoquin, no relation to Stephen.
A serious prospect for next years minor panel, if he's not snapped up to go across the water playing soccer first.

robopaddy

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Would ye all come in out of the fog lads? The world and his dog knows that the county board havent 2 pennys to scratch together, it'll be a Waterford man in charge, no way can they afford an outsider.

PS - Andrew Molumphy is from Cappoquin, no relation to Stephen.
A serious prospect for next years minor panel, if he's not snapped up to go across the water playing soccer first.

Co. Board have stated publicly that funds will be made available for an outside manager if needs be.

That lads surname is actually Molumby awith a 'b' unusual one alright so definetly no relation of Stephen

Deise_2012

robopaddy wrote: »

Co. Board have stated publicly that funds will be made available for an outside manager if needs be.

That lads surname is actually Molumby awith a 'b' unusual one alright so definetly no relation of Stephen

I thought they made a mistake in the surname, serious hurler alright

seananigans

So given the players have felt the reaction of the public towards them, and the great progress of the last 2 years, can we just have scully back and put this to bed?

Black Suir

Was in Dungarvan today and spotted some County Board Officers in the area around Lawlor's Hotel. I also saw former Waterford hurler Jim Greene go through the shopping centre in the direction of Lawlor's. I doubt he was up in Dungarvan to do a weeks shopping or to buy a book in Pat Whyte's Eason. Maybe he was up hoping to but a third big winning lotto ticket to be sold by Pat and the Staff in Easons.

sid wallace

seananigans wrote: »

So given the players have felt the reaction of the public towards them, and the great progress of the last 2 years, can we just have scully back and put this to bed?

You are a very poor troll.

culbaire666

Anyone else feel that county panels should be automatically disbanded once your season is over. There was probally lads who voted for M.Ryan to go who won't even make the panel next season.Seems like we have a few prima donna's who feel we should be winning All Irelands lets face it we are the Newcastle of hurling big following but with no trophies.

hardybuck

culbaire666 wrote: »

Anyone else feel that county panels should be automatically disbanded once your season is over. There was probally lads who voted for M.Ryan to go who won't even make the panel next season.Seems like we have a few prima donna's who feel we should be winning All Irelands lets face it we are the Newcastle of hurling big following but with no trophies.

You're way off here. Most counties will have players set up with gym programs from this point of the season on. A senior player might require three years of strength and conditioning training before they are approaching the finished article.

culbaire666

hardybuck wrote: »

You're way off here. Most counties will have players set up with gym programs from this point of the season on. A senior player might require three years of strength and conditioning training before they are approaching the finished article.

I'm not on about conditioning that should be the norm for any top player. Players shouldn't assume that because they were involved one year that they have the right to be involved the following year. I'd prefer to see trial games brought back, so being a county panellist is earned on current form not previous. It might create a bit of hunger amongst players knowing that inter county hurling is not guaranteed because you were there last year.

sid wallace

culbaire666 wrote: »

Anyone else feel that county panels should be automatically disbanded once your season is over. There was probally lads who voted for M.Ryan to go who won't even make the panel next season.Seems like we have a few prima donna's who feel we should be winning All Irelands lets face it we are the Newcastle of hurling big following but with no trophies.

A post full of idle speculation.

robopaddy

Black Suir wrote: »

Was in Dungarvan today and spotted some County Board Officers in the area around Lawlor's Hotel. I also saw former Waterford hurler Jim Greene go through the shopping centre in the direction of Lawlor's. I doubt he was up in Dungarvan to do a weeks shopping or to buy a book in Pat Whyte's Eason. Maybe he was up hoping to but a third big winning lotto ticket to be sold by Pat and the Staff in Easons.

There was also a big colleges hurling game on in the Fraher Field at lunchtime yesterday with many of the AI minor winning team playing so maybe thats why there were so many familiar GAA Faces around.

Id beleive that Greene has a better chance of getting his hands on one of those tickets than the Waterford job

Horseboxhead

is it possible to get a breakdown of the teams plus a bit of a match report on the game between Dungarvan CBS and Lismore CBS Yesterday?.

chinguetti

So its between McGrath and Queally for the senior job which is quite disappointing in my view that only 2 people are interested.

Does anyone know if the 6 appointed people can go and recommend someone else for the job as well or is that outside their remit?

hardybuck

culbaire666 wrote: »

I'm not on about conditioning that should be the norm for any top player. Players shouldn't assume that because they were involved one year that they have the right to be involved the following year. I'd prefer to see trial games brought back, so being a county panellist is earned on current form not previous. It might create a bit of hunger amongst players knowing that inter county hurling is not guaranteed because you were there last year.

Who do you think co-ordinates the strength and conditioning work!? You don't want to have guys off doing their own thing, as can lead to injuries and lads not doing the right sort of work. Also, the lads will need to have gym memberships etc. paid for over winter in order to get this work done.

If you had a proper setup you would have full time professional coaches, working in a centre of excellence where a limited number of guys who were in or around the panel could be invited to train.

I can see what you're trying to achieve, but I don't think it's really practical the way the game has gone - you need to be working pretty much all of the year.

deiseach

One of the things the current pickle demonstrates is that the business of 'consulting' squads on the status of the manager is a fudge. The players effectively have a veto over who the manager is. Spare us any flannel about how they never said they were unwilling to play under Michael Ryan. No manager can hope to function when the whole world knows the players have no confidence in him. Maybe this is a good thing. There's something to be said for getting any grievances out in the open rather than letting them fester. The problem is that the players don't have to deal with the consequences of their actions. You can see people already lining up to lambast the County Board over the new manager even though they weren't the ones who brought us to this situation.

It's not something I like, but if we are going to insist on this consultation then we should formalise the players veto. At the end of a manager's term, whether that be two or three years, the players get the chance to express no confidence in the incumbent. This way, they have their fingerprints all over the decision rather than being able to vote no confidence while at the same time claiming that they weren't really dissing the current manager. It might soften the players cough if they realised that they are owning their decision in the eyes of the public. And who knows? They might be really good at making these calls and we're all better off as a result. At least we'd be able to assess this with a proper sample size rather than lurching from one crisis to the next, never learning the lessons of the past.

robopaddy

Horseboxhead wrote: »

is it possible to get a breakdown of the teams plus a bit of a match report on the game between Dungarvan CBS and Lismore CBS Yesterday?.

Irish examiner website or Thomas Keanes blog are good bets

Waternut

robopaddy wrote: »

Irish examiner website or Thomas Keanes blog are good bets

Cbs team was - murray, culloo, nugent, cronin, coffey, daly, lyons, barry, curran, o'connel, shine, O'Grady, morrisey, donnelly and curran

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

You're way off here. Most counties will have players set up with gym programs from this point of the season on. A senior player might require three years of strength and conditioning training before they are approaching the finished article.

Without getting into this too much because I'm not sure what stance to take on it, September in itself would be early for our lads to be on Gym programmes, not too mind the 2nd weekend in August when they actually met and took the vote.

Don't think that stands up at all.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

Without getting into this too much because I'm not sure what stance to take on it, September in itself would be early for our lads to be on Gym programmes, not too mind the 2nd weekend in August when they actually met and took the vote.

Don't think that stands up at all.

It would definitely not be too early. On Tuesday we're into October. Most years we've teams playing in late July or early August. As this was a particularly unsuccessful year decisions were made far earlier on.

Gym programmes last all year, and vary for each individual. For certain people, it involves putting on bulk and muscle. For others it will involve core flexibility and strengthening work.

If you disband a team at the end of the season you risk having lads go unmonitored. This is something you really don't want for lads in the 19-23 sort of development years.

Are you going to hold trial games in November/December - I'm not sure if that's allowed? If you hold trials in January and pick a whole new squad you've got 30 lads starting their training far too late in the year. The trial games would be a risk in themselves if lads haven't been training for a number of months beforehand.

Realistically, what would it achieve anyway? In a squad of 30 you might get 3 or 4 new faces every year.