Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

stumblingblock

Mountainlad wrote: »

John Dee from Portlaw to Mount Sion. Is that his third transfer in a row?

Kieran Power to Dungarvan, Bill Walsh (Tipp 21 in 2013) to Mount Sion and Shane Fives back to Tourin.

Source: Dungarvan Observer

Dungarvan are mopping up players from all over. I heard from a reliable source that they tried to coax Harney from bunmahon aswell but he wasn't for turning

GAA2TheCore

stumblingblock wrote: »

Dungarvan are mopping up players from all over. I heard from a reliable source that they tried to coax Harney from bunmahon aswell but he wasn't for turning

I thought harney was joining ballygunner ?

cul beag

stumblingblock wrote: »

Dungarvan are mopping up players from all over. I heard from a reliable source that they tried to coax Harney from bunmahon aswell but he wasn't for turning

Don't forget Colin Dunford aswell. League of Nations team at this stage. Brickeys,St.Marys and Clonea all losing out to the constant poaching but its not just in Dungarvan,the big 3 in the city are at it for years. The smaller clubs don't stand a chance. The Cork system is the best I've seen. Ok so you want to transfer?Fine,but sit on your arse there for 2 years before you put on your new club's jersey! It's the only way to stop it. This thing of having to have an address at where the club you're transferring to is? What a farce! Its an insult to our intelligence at this stage. They're on about changing the championship structure,which I'm in total favour of,but if something isn't done to protect the smaller clubs best assets they won't have enough decent teams to perform in these newly structured championships.

cookey123

Would having 2 divisional sides enter the senior championship ala cork be of benifit where the best of junior and intermediate come together to compete... I would increase the standard possibly and also give the talent in these smaller clubs an opportunity to develop at senior level without leaving there home club! Also not sure how viable it would be but could WIT enter a team also into the championship to offer further competition

hardybuck

cul beag wrote: »

Don't forget Colin Dunford aswell. League of Nations team at this stage. Brickeys,St.Marys and Clonea all losing out to the constant poaching but its not just in Dungarvan,the big 3 in the city are at it for years. The smaller clubs don't stand a chance. The Cork system is the best I've seen. Ok so you want to transfer?Fine,but sit on your arse there for 2 years before you put on your new club's jersey! It's the only way to stop it. This thing of having to have an address at where the club you're transferring to is? What a farce! Its an insult to our intelligence at this stage. They're on about changing the championship structure,which I'm in total favour of,but if something isn't done to protect the smaller clubs best assets they won't have enough decent teams to perform in these newly structured championships.

You're obviously from a small club.

Personally I think it's crazy that a club would claim ownership over a player as if he was one of their possessions. I know a lot of people feel that way, he's ours.

There are many reasons why a player might want to leave his club. Sometimes it might be prompted by a move of home. Sometimes it can step from a personal dispute with another club member. Other situations arise when the club's ambitions and the player's ambitions don't align.

I know some lads who were really interested in achieving their potential who were playing in really shoddy setups in bad clubs which hindered their development. I don't think many lads will complain if their club and it's members are genuinely trying their best, but quite often they won't be.

We see many small clubs consistently challenge for top honours around the country. Some tiny parishes end up winning senior club All Irelands. What seperates these small clubs from those languishing in junior competitions?

The blue blaa

cul beag wrote: »

Don't forget Colin Dunford aswell. League of Nations team at this stage. Brickeys,St.Marys and Clonea all losing out to the constant poaching but its not just in Dungarvan,the big 3 in the city are at it for years. The smaller clubs don't stand a chance. The Cork system is the best I've seen. Ok so you want to transfer?Fine,but sit on your arse there for 2 years before you put on your new club's jersey! It's the only way to stop it. This thing of having to have an address at where the club you're transferring to is? What a farce! Its an insult to our intelligence at this stage. They're on about changing the championship structure,which I'm in total favour of,but if something isn't done to protect the smaller clubs best assets they won't have enough decent teams to perform in these newly structured championships.

I agree 100% Cul beag it's wrong on all fronts and I'll put my hand up I'm from one of the big 3 city clubs, my personal opinion is 1 club for life. it's a complete lack of respect for the people who done all they could to help these players become who they are, and lets not forget the players who are with the bigger clubs who are being pushed out to cater for these marquee signings the whole thing is wrong. And nothing is being done about it. Dungarvan are mopping up juvenile lads from Abbeyside and surrounding areas for past few years and rules state no young player from under minor can move unless change of address that in itself is a mockery of the rules, you could stand in Dungarvan an piddle into Abbeyside

cul beag

hardybuck wrote: »

You're obviously from a small club.

Personally I think it's crazy that a club would claim ownership over a player as if he was one of their possessions. I know a lot of people feel that way, he's ours.

There are many reasons why a player might want to leave his club. Sometimes it might be prompted by a move of home. Sometimes it can step from a personal dispute with another club member. Other situations arise when the club's ambitions and the player's ambitions don't align.

I know some lads who were really interested in achieving their potential who were playing in really shoddy setups in bad clubs which hindered their development. I don't think many lads will complain if their club and it's members are genuinely trying their best, but quite often they won't be.

We see many small clubs consistently challenge for top honours around the country. Some tiny parishes end up winning senior club All Irelands. What seperates these small clubs from those languishing in junior competitions?

Obviously clubs are going to claim the rights over their players if we don't have some sort of regulations it just becomes a free for all. Yes there are always certain situations where players have to move im not getting at that but what I am getting at is the blatant poaching by big clubs of marquee players from smaller rural or urban clubs to feed their lust for success. As the blue blaa states in his post,what about the money spend by the parent clubs on these players,their fellow clubmates that have played beside them for years,whom look up to,whom depend on so as they might have a moment of glory with? The bare basic core of the GAA in 1884 was based around the parish,not around the smell of a medal that in all realism doesn't mean the same as winning with your own. Agreed there will be always exceptions with the likes of migration and emigration but to transfer 5 mins in the road from your own club? Come on now don't tell me all the players that joined DLS,Mt Sion and Ballygunner in the last 20 yrs did so because of the reasons you outlined? Maybe you believe that but I for one certainly do not believe it.

hardybuck

cul beag wrote: »

Obviously clubs are going to claim the rights over their players if we don't have some sort of regulations it just becomes a free for all. Yes there are always certain situations where players have to move im not getting at that but what I am getting at is the blatant poaching by big clubs of marquee players from smaller rural or urban clubs to feed their lust for success. As the blue blaa states in his post,what about the money spend by the parent clubs on these players,their fellow clubmates that have played beside them for years,whom look up to,whom depend on so as they might have a moment of glory with? The bare basic core of the GAA in 1884 was based around the parish,not around the smell of a medal that in all realism doesn't mean the same as winning with your own. Agreed there will be always exceptions with the likes of migration and emigration but to transfer 5 mins in the road from your own club? Come on now don't tell me all the players that joined DLS,Mt Sion and Ballygunner in the last 20 yrs did so because of the reasons you outlined? Maybe you believe that but I for one certainly do not believe it.

.

I would disagree slightly. The basic principle of the establishment was to promote the Gaelic games, to promote Irish cultural activities, which in turn helped to promote a sense of community. The 'parish' has all sorts of religous connotations, and the Catholic church definitely did latch on the Association in a big way. The relationship between the two is no longer hand in glove. Of the big clubs you mentioned, DLS has no parish. Mount Sion has no parish.

Look, I get what you're saying. It might be hard for good people in smaller clubs trying their best to hold onto players when they want a move. It can take the good out of it for them. However, I think if you do a bit of research, it is normally the individual who approaches the club. The bigger club have a choice then of accepting the player, or risk losing him to a rival.

The home club then have a choice of releasing the player or not? They can decide not to release a player for a significant period - is it 2 years?

waterford28

Is there any truth in kill/fenor receiving quite a few players from tramore, and is jack Kennedy transferred back to ballyduff?
Personally I'm after hearing rumblings that one of the big city teams with a new well established coach in the gaa world is approaching every good young player from inside the county and further afield which is a farce.

Ever hear of anyone transferring in Kilkenny clubs?

hardybuck

waterford28 wrote: »

Is there any truth in kill/fenor receiving quite a few players from tramore, and is jack Kennedy transferred back to ballyduff?
Personally I'm after hearing rumblings that one of the big city teams with a new well established coach in the gaa world is approaching every good young player from inside the county and further afield which is a farce.

Ever hear of anyone transferring in Kilkenny clubs?

I also heard that one of the new well established coaches from a big city team was approached by a rural club in not too distant past to see if he'd like to play for them...

Hurling man

I think players should stay loyal to club where possible if set up is not good enough they should try help leaving for a big club will definitely not improve situation in smaller club also some players that leave smaller teams end up sitting on there arse in their new club watching matches when the team they left are struggling for numbers if all was rosey I doubt john dee would be moving for the third time and didn't young Kiely join dungarvan last year what kind of impact did he make

waterford28

Hurling man wrote: »

I think players should stay loyal to club where possible if set up is not good enough they should try help leaving for a big club will definitely not improve situation in smaller club also some players that leave smaller teams end up sitting on there arse in their new club watching matches when the team they left are struggling for numbers if all was rosey I doubt john dee would be moving for the third time and didn't young Kiely join dungarvan last year what kind of impact did he make

No impact because he was an average player on a exceptional Harty cup team, not good enough for senior, yet anyway

citykat

waterford28 wrote: »

Ever hear of anyone transferring in Kilkenny clubs?

Very rare at adult level. There would be a bit of movement between the 3 city clubs at underage level but you're only talking the odd player every now and then. But then again looking from the outside in, Waterford appears to be the other extreme. The last controversial/noteworthy transfer request I can recall in KK was Canice Brennan looking to transfer to Tullaroan. Tullaroan were a senior club at the time when his own weren't. It was fought tooth and nail by his club and never went through. To be fair to him he was married to a Tullaroan girl and living in the parish at the time. I don't know why he bothered though given his family's links to his own club and the long term bitterness such a move can generate.

Mountainlad

I think that would be exaggerating the problem in Waterford a bit now, it's not that severe.

Not sure what the craic with Dee is, but Kieran Powers club is Killrossanry who aren't fielding a hurling team. Shane Fives went back to Tourin, and a lad from Carrick has transferred to the City. Nothing really controversial about any of that.

The one exception is the Johns, a merciless shower :P

cul beag

Mountainlad wrote: »

I think that would be exaggerating the problem in Waterford a bit now, it's not that severe.

Not sure what the craic with Dee is, but Kieran Powers club is Killrossanry who aren't fielding a hurling team. Shane Fives went back to Tourin, and a lad from Carrick has transferred to the City. Nothing really controversial about any of that.

The one exception is the Johns, a merciless shower :P

Kieran Power was/is hurling with Clonea Power.

Mountainlad

cul beag wrote: »

Kieran Power was/is hurling with Clonea Power.

Yes, and hes supposedly transferring to Dungarvan. But he's not from Clonea Power so I don't see a problem with him moving to Dungarvan.

waterford28

Mountainlad wrote: »

I think that would be exaggerating the problem in Waterford a bit now, it's not that severe.

Not sure what the craic with Dee is, but Kieran Powers club is Killrossanry who aren't fielding a hurling team. Shane Fives went back to Tourin, and a lad from Carrick has transferred to the City. Nothing really controversial about any of that.

The one exception is the Johns, a merciless shower :P

Kieran powers club is John Mitchell's/ clonea power

Mountainlad

waterford28 wrote: »

Kieran powers club is John Mitchell's/ clonea power

Was it always? Sure I saw him down as Killrossanty when he was Harty Cup captain, and subsequently as one who transferred last year or the year before when they decided not to field a hurling team.

The blue blaa

Mountainlad wrote: »

Was it always? Sure I saw him down as Killrossanty when he was Harty Cup captain, and subsequently as one who transferred last year or the year before when they decided not to field a hurling team.

Your Correct on that

cul beag

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yes, and hes supposedly transferring to Dungarvan. But he's not from Clonea Power so I don't see a problem with him moving to Dungarvan.

Clonea Power is his hurling club full stop! He's hardly transferring into Dungarvan to play football! Stupid statement that you see no reasons against him transferring. Mikey Kearney is from araglin but plays with ballyduff upper so does that mean you see nothing wrong with him transferring to Sars in Cork lets say? Anyway I'm obviously old school and most on here are being led astray by the premiership and transfer deadline day!

cookey123

2 mike Kearney's in ballyduff, Mikey who was minor 2 years ago is from ballyduff, it is his older cousin is from araglen originally but transfered 4-5 years ago

Mountainlad

cul beag wrote: »

Clonea Power is his hurling club full stop! He's hardly transferring into Dungarvan to play football! Stupid statement that you see no reasons against him transferring. Mikey Kearney is from araglin but plays with ballyduff upper so does that mean you see nothing wrong with him transferring to Sars in Cork lets say? Anyway I'm obviously old school and most on here are being led astray by the premiership and transfer deadline day!

It's not his home club, he's been there two years. T'would be like someone getting an inter-county transfer a la Shane Fives and deciding to come back. There should probably be a limit on the number of times you can transfer, I'd be skeptical about Dee's on the face of it but wouldn't be too quick to comment not knowing the details.

I don't like the idea of poaching, but just because Clonea are an Intermediate side doesn't mean they are a protected species. They got two years out of Kieran Power they wouldn't have had if Killrossanty hadn't pulled their team. Killrossanty is his club, but he can't play for them so after that personally I don't think it matters. If he wants to play for Dungarvan good luck to him.

Generally though do agree there has to be some restrictions so that say Dungarvan (don't want to be picking on them but have a lot of small clubs in their environs) aren't picking up lads from Brickeys, Modeligo, Colligan etc just because they're starting to become successful.


Was told about a young player who played minor for Waterford not being in his clubs plans earlier in the year, went to America and sat out the adult teams games when he came back on the bench. They didn't even play him in the u21 games from what I was told and he was considering transferring to a different club. Would be on any adult Senior (wasn't even a Senior team for what it's worth) team I reckon, what do you make of that situation Cul Beag?

GAA2TheCore

waterford28 wrote: »

No impact because he was an average player on a exceptional Harty cup team, not good enough for senior, yet anyway

He was very good for them throughout dungarvan season and IMO made a impact and was also very consistent he also put his fair share into that exceptional Harty cup team

stumblingblock

Where do you draw the line is hard to know. If you look at Tom Devine for Modeligo. He dosent actually live there in the parish as far as I know. rather he did for a while when he was younger went to primary school there for a few years. His family moved out of the area but he continued to play for the underage club up along. The rest of his family are affiliated with dungarvan and even has brothers playing with them to the best of my knowledge. Anyway my point is if there was a parish rule the likes of Modeligo wouldn't have their best players. Its a double edged sword. Also people forget about players from bigger senior clubs who transfer to junior clubs. You don't hear smaller clubs complaining about that especially the clubs that struggle for numbers.

cul beag

Mountainlad wrote: »

It's not his home club, he's been there two years. T'would be like someone getting an inter-county transfer a la Shane Fives and deciding to come back. There should probably be a limit on the number of times you can transfer, I'd be skeptical about Dee's on the face of it but wouldn't be too quick to comment not knowing the details.

I don't like the idea of poaching, but just because Clonea are an Intermediate side doesn't mean they are a protected species. They got two years out of Kieran Power they wouldn't have had if Killrossanty hadn't pulled their team. Killrossanty is his club, but he can't play for them so after that personally I don't think it matters. If he wants to play for Dungarvan good luck to him.

Generally though do agree there has to be some restrictions so that say Dungarvan (don't want to be picking on them but have a lot of small clubs in their environs) aren't picking up lads from Brickeys, Modeligo, Colligan etc just because they're starting to become successful.


Was told about a young player who played minor for Waterford not being in his clubs plans earlier in the year, went to America and sat out the adult teams games when he came back on the bench. They didn't even play him in the u21 games from what I was told and he was considering transferring to a different club. Would be on any adult Senior (wasn't even a Senior team for what it's worth) team I reckon, what do you make of that situation Cul Beag?

I take it there's two sides to every story so obviously i can't make a fair comment on it until i would hear the whole story. But look,my original post was that something has to be done to stop the poaching,or at least make it as hard as possible because its going to have an adverse effect on smaller clubs throughout the county. Would Bonmahon,a football club,ever have reached a county junior final without Michael Harney? Probably not,but if he were to leave this year their chances of making it to the final again would be slim. This John Dee transfer saga is just comical at this stage it just sums up the farce of a system we have in this county.

waterford28

cul beag wrote: »

I take it there's two sides to every story so obviously i can't make a fair comment on it until i would hear the whole story. But look,my original post was that something has to be done to stop the poaching,or at least make it as hard as possible because its going to have an adverse effect on smaller clubs throughout the county. Would Bonmahon,a football club,ever have reached a county junior final without Michael Harney? Probably not,but if he were to leave this year their chances of making it to the final again would be slim. This John Dee transfer saga is just comical at this stage it just sums up the farce of a system we have in this county.

Michéal Harney was in Boston for most of bunmahons hurling campaign, made it back for the eastern final, they would of bet kill without him to be honest.

Sliabh gCua1

hardybuck wrote: »

.

I would disagree slightly. The basic principle of the establishment was to promote the Gaelic games, to promote Irish cultural activities, which in turn helped to promote a sense of community. The 'parish' has all sorts of religous connotations, and the Catholic church definitely did latch on the Association in a big way. The relationship between the two is no longer hand in glove. Of the big clubs you mentioned, DLS has no parish. Mount Sion has no parish.

Look, I get what you're saying. It might be hard for good people in smaller clubs trying their best to hold onto players when they want a move. It can take the good out of it for them. However, I think if you do a bit of research, it is normally the individual who approaches the club. The bigger club have a choice then of accepting the player, or risk losing him to a rival.

The home club then have a choice of releasing the player or not? They can decide not to release a player for a significant period - is it 2 years?

Part of the reason why Parish Rule will not work in Waterford. Also we have two parishes in Waterford that are in two different counties.

DLS2THECORE

Is today the deadline for players that intend to transfer?
Will this list be available on social media?

cul beag

Sliabh gCua1 wrote: »

Part of the reason why Parish Rule will not work in Waterford. Also we have two parishes in Waterford that are in two different counties.

How do the Cork city clubs manage? God almighty thank god George Mitchell didn't contact ye before the Northern talks!!

Figsy32

cul beag wrote: »

How do the Cork city clubs manage? God almighty thank god George Mitchell didn't contact ye before the Northern talks!!

No parish rule in the city in Cork. Quite a lot of parishes like Ballinlough, Rochestown don't have a team and lads are split between different clubs.

Don't remember there being a huge issue regarding transfers in the city in recent years.